BigBossImBeamer

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  1. A rarity leaderboard would be ignored anyway, if it only existed beside the real leaderboard. But if it would replace the real one, there would be no motivation to play shovelware games without spam accounts. The point I'm trying to make ist that this is possible and rational (from a game theory point of view) so people will do this. It's only a matter of time. A system shouldn't be built in such a way that it's rational to manipulate it. It will become attractive to offer such services and it will become attractive to buy such services. Just like it became attractive for developers to create games with easy trophies and just like it became attractive for people to play those games.
  2. Is that so much more absurd than playing Jumping Pile of Poo Turbo?
  3. Just to make things clear. I'm against any leaderboard, especially rarity leaderboards. I don't want an absolute rarity leaderboard to be implemented either. But if a rarity leaderboard is implemented, it shouldn't be a relative one or the whole misery starts all over again. At least that's what I'm convinced of. So I'm quite happy with the situation that Sly doesn't implement anything new anymore. On the other hand, a rarity leaderboard would be ignored anyway, as long as it doesn't replace the current one. With this thread I was mainly interested in seeing if I have any error in thinking and I wanted to make people aware of this issue, otherwise I would have just asked Husky directly.
  4. Technically, you're right. But in the end, shovelware games and easy AAA games will both be worthless. AAA games with very hard trophies will always be worth more than any shovelware game though. Eventually, any trophy with over 1000 Achievers will be completely worthless. Okay, maybe that was a bit of an exaggeration, but still, DLCs are a big problem. Imagine an unpopular but fast and easy game with 0 game owners. (optimal case) Now earn all trophies in it and earn the first trophy on 19 spam accounts and you will get a bunch of ultra rares on your main account, since the rarity is now at 5%. If everyone would do it that way with this game, nothing about the rarity would change. I only chose 5% because that is where ultra rare begins. You can also do this with any other number. If there are no hard cut offs in the calculation as you say, it would be even more profitable. Yes, with an absolute rarity leaderboard the focus would be on niche games. (Which would definitely be an improvement to the current focus.) However, these games would then quickly become less worth. A popular game with a really hard trophy in it wouldn't become less worth at all. Yes, you have calculated correctly. But of course, that would only reflect the present time. If you rank up because of this game, people will check your profile, see the game and play it too. Then the number would change very quickly. (assuming the game isn't hard) I almost expected something like this. 😅 Thanks for your time anyway!
  5. In recent months and years, parts of the community have repeatedly expressed displeasure regarding shovelware games and suggested a rarity leaderboard. Now the time has come where I would like to share my opinion on that and make a suggestion. Shovelware games: First, let's talk about shovelware games. I always didn't care about these games. I don't hold any grudge against the developers and certainly not against those who buy and play them. Still, I understand that many consider the leaderboards pointless because of these games, since it's basically just about playing as many of these games as possible. However, I don't think that these games are the reason for this situation. I think the source of this problem is the trophy system itself. Because from a game theory point of view, the most rational thing to do is to play the shortest possible games if your ranking is important to you. This is the best strategy to rank up on the leaderboards. A poor strategy, on the other hand, is to play time-intensive games. Therefore, at the top of the leaderboards are only players who choose the best strategy, which is to play the shortest possible games. This is completely predictable and thus could have been foreseen from the very beginning. This is not a new trend, it has been like this right from the start. (Hannah Montana) Now the dimensions have only become extreme. The point I'm trying to make is that the trophy system itself causes and encourages this situation. If the trophy system were introduced today and there were no games yet, you could still predict exactly the following: At the top of the leaderboards will be players who invest the most time and play the shortest games. Sony could of course establish quality control, but that wouldn't solve the actual problem. Besides, it costs money and Sony would have to define arbitrary limits. Then the games that are just above those limits would be attacked. And that's exactly what happened in the past. First it was visual novels, then Ratalaika games, and now these shovelware games. So how about a rarity leaderboard to fix this issue? Sounds like a good idea... ...at first. When I thought about it for a while, I realized that it would make everything worse. At least that's the case for the rarity leaderboards that have been suggested so far. Because all the rarity leaderboards suggested so far are relative rarity leaderboards. This means they are manipulable, arbitrary, and complicated to calculate. Manipulable because the game owners are relevant for the rarity. That means you can increase the value of a trophy by starting the game with spam accounts and earning the first trophy. Thus, all other trophies from the list become rarer without much effort. There could even arise services for it. Arbitrary because the 5.00% limit for ultra rare was simply set there for no particular reason. Why would a trophy be worth significantly more points if it has a rarity of 5.00% than a trophy with a rarity of 5.01%? Complicated because game owners are always a relevant factor and that is problematic with DLCs. So, from a game theory point of view, the most rational strategy to rank up on such leaderboards would be to play the shortest possible games with low game owners and also getting the first trophy with 19 spam accounts. This way you have a whole trophy list (except for the first trophy of course) with ultra rares. And just as it was predictable with the current leaderboard that only short games would be relevant to the rankings, it is predictable with such a relative rarity leaderboard that only short games with fake rarity would be relevant. I'm convinced that this is exactly what would happen in the long run. So how about an absolute rarity leaderboard instead? Therefore, my suggestion would be an absolute rarity leaderboard, in which only the achievers of a trophy are relevant. All three drawbacks of the relative rarity leaderboard would be eliminated. It would not be manipulable, because you could change the leaderboard just like the current leaderboard only by earning trophies, but not by manipulating the game owners. It would not be arbitrary, as any artificial boundary would be eliminated. It would be completely straightforward, as only achievers of a trophy would be a relevant factor, and the problem with DLC owners would also be eliminated completely. The calculation of trophy points: Calculating the score of a trophy would be simple: 1 divided by the number of achievers. Thus, the highest possible score for a trophy would be 1. This is the case when you are the only one in the world with this trophy. A few examples: 2 achievers = 0.500000 trophy points 5 achievers = 0.200000 trophy points 8 achievers = 0.125000 trophy points 40 achievers = 0.025000 trophy points 99 achievers = 0.010101 trophy points 250 achievers = 0.004000 trophy points 600 achievers = 0.001666 trophy points 9,000 achievers = 0.000111 trophy points 70,000 achievers = 0.000014 trophy points 300,000 achievers = 0.000003 trophy points 1,000,000 achievers = 0.000001 trophy points Of course, this leaderboard wouldn't be perfect either, the focus would be on unknown games and popular games would be worth little. But skill-relevant trophies would gradually emerge and these would also be worth the most. A relative rarity leaderboard, on the other hand, wouldn't be about skill, but about relative rarity, which is often only achieved by high number of game owners. Also, on a relative rarity leaderboard, you could have earned the hardest trophy in the world, but it wouldn't earn you any points if you were the only game owner, since the rarity would be at 100%. You would probably get even less points than on the current leaderboards. Here is an overview with pros and cons of each leaderboard: Current leaderboard Most rational approach: play the shortest game available next Pros: not manipulable DLC owners not relevant Cons: hard trophies don't have postive effect on leaderboard rank no skill required Relative rarity leaderboard Most rational approach: play the shortest game available next and constanly manipulate game owners Pros: hard trophies have postive effect on leaderboard rank Cons: manipulable DLC owners relevant no skill required Absolute rarity leaderboard Most rational approach: play the hardest game that matches your skills next Pros: skill required DLC owners not relevant highest possible objectivity Cons: popularity has negative impact on points Closing words: I'm aware that Sly has other priorities than PSNP and even good suggestions were not implemented. That's why I thought about whether this could be implemented on PSNP+. So I would be most interested in your opinion @HusKy. 🤔 Would that even be possible? Would you be interested in implementing that? If this was tested on PSNP+ for a while and people liked it, maybe we'd get Sly to implement it. After all, he would only have to copy code then. So, community of PSNP. What do you think about my suggestion? If I have any errors in thinking, please let me know. Happy hunting!
  6. I set a new record for the fastest achiever on my secondary account @BigBossImBenz and I always thought it would be pretty cool to be able to see how someone did it. So here's a video of how I did it and with these kind of threads I want to encourage trophy hunters who are also aiming for the fastest achiever to do the same. So feel free to use this thread to post your video if you beat my record. Video: Happy hunting!
  7. I set a new record for the fastest achiever on my secondary account @BigBossImBenz and I always thought it would be pretty cool to be able to see how someone did it. So here's a video of how I did it and with these kind of threads I want to encourage trophy hunters who are also aiming for the fastest achiever to do the same. So feel free to use this thread to post your video if you beat my record. Video: Happy hunting!
  8. Haha, thank you! 😄 Interestingly, the speedrun you are talking about was already beaten two and a half years ago. The account was only recently added to PSNProfiles. When I tried to set a new record for the fastest achviever, I found out that the other record was cheated, at least according to the current cheating rules, in which it is not allowed to play the same game on two consoles at the same time. That's exactly what they did to shorten the second playthrough. I already reported the player. They should be removed in the next few weeks.
  9. I set a new record for the fastest achiever on my secondary account @BigBossImBenz and I always thought it would be pretty cool to be able to see how someone did it. So here's a video of how I did it and with these kind of threads I want to encourage trophy hunters who are also aiming for the fastest achiever to do the same. So feel free to use this thread to post your video if you beat my record. Video: Happy hunting!
  10. I set a new record for the fastest achiever on my secondary account @BigBossImBenz and I always thought it would be pretty cool to be able to see how someone did it. So here's a video of how I did it and with these kind of threads I want to encourage trophy hunters who are also aiming for the fastest achiever to do the same. So feel free to use this thread to post your video if you beat my record. Video: Happy hunting!
  11. I set a new record for the fastest achiever on my secondary account @BigBossImBenz and I always thought it would be pretty cool to be able to see how someone did it. So here's a video of how I did it and with these kind of threads I want to encourage trophy hunters who are also aiming for the fastest achiever to do the same. So feel free to use this thread to post your video if you beat my record. Video: Happy hunting!
  12. I set a new record for the fastest achiever on my secondary account @BigBossImBenz and I always thought it would be pretty cool to be able to see how someone did it. So here's a video of how I did it and with these kind of threads I want to encourage trophy hunters who are also aiming for the fastest achiever to do the same. So feel free to use this thread to post your video if you beat my record. Video: Happy hunting!
  13. I haven't tested it yet, but I think you can delay the first trophy further. So that the part with Stan falls in the time before the first trophy and the time therefore doesn't count. Then you can take all the time in the world to get ripped off by Stan. 😀
  14. @Sly Ripper Hey Sly, can give an update on this issue? I absolutely understand if it's too much of a hassle to integrate that feature. But can you at least clarify if it's realistic to still hope for the feature? P.S.: I'd be willing to pay for it.
  15. I set a new record for the fastest achiever on my secondary account @BigBossImBenz and I always thought it would be pretty cool to be able to see how someone did it. So here's a video of how I did it and with these kind of threads I want to encourage trophy hunters who are also aiming for the fastest achiever to do the same. So feel free to use this thread to post your video if you beat my record. Video: Happy hunting!