Ashande

I can’t specifically say, since I suspect you’re in a different country, and perhaps the situation is different there. Hell, it may be different in some states, for all I know. But I can tell you that, in my state, the people who try to cut off the supply of drugs and the people who try to regulate the alcohol are frequently considered the “bad guy,” while those who enable or even encourage the addictive behavior are regaled as heroes. Judging from the things I am frequently exposed to on social media (which is primarily made up of small but ridiculously vocal groups, I will admit), this is something of a common stance to take, frequently presented as somehow “defending” or “helping” the addicted. Given that I am surrounded by that sort of attitude and see it reflected other places, my own answer to your question (“In what world am I living”) would be “an awful one that has roughly 90% of its priorities backwards.”

As regards the store features: You say you “got fooled.” What game did the fooling? Disco Cannon Airlines? Looking at the description, looks like fairly obvious trophy trash to me; poor grammar, single sentence description, vague as all hell. There’s a video that shows a minute and a half of gameplay that looks incredibly basic and lacking in any detail, alongside a handful of screenshots that all look the same. If you looked at all that, said “looks good, chief” and bought it, then felt “fooled” when you got an incredibly basic game that handed the trophies out in three minutes, I don’t know what to tell you. But so far as Sony “promoting” it, showing up in the New Releases tab isn’t promotion. It means it’s a new release. Every single game shows up there, and will be the top square for at least the first few seconds of its life. You say there’s no silence, but you also say Sony doesn’t say or do anything about this, so which is it? Or are you claiming they’re not “silent” because you have convinced yourself that they’re promoting this crap despite it not showing up in any of the curated sections of the store (which, if you weren’t aware, do exist. They’re under the “Collections” tab of the storefront.) If you don’t know anything about Xbox One, then why (in the original post that I responded to) did you claim “it’s funny that Sony has become what Xbox was last gen?” You think they’ve become something that you have no experience with and can’t explain how they became it? That’s a fascinating statement. Then you somehow claim I “let you know” that… how, precisely? What comparison was made? How did I let you know something so you could make a statement before I’d responded to you? Smart delivery vs. the PS4/PS5 upgrade system (or the PS3/PS4/PS Vita Cross Buy system that preceded it) is an interesting topic, and I do think Sony could stand to take a page from Microsoft’s book on that count… but has only minimal relation to the trophy trash games, Paying $10 to upgrade Death Stranding or Ghost of Tsushima (and getting extra content in the bargain) or sticking my Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla or Yakuza: Like a Dragon PS4 disc in the drive and having the option to download the PS5 version instead doesn’t really seem to be on topic, here (plus, they’re not really spamming the store and cluttering up the tabs; there’s only two versions of each of them, both clearly marked, one for PS4 and one for PS5.) If you have issues with auto pops or cross-buy, that’s an entirely separate argument. So far as “buying the wrong version,” the store has icons all over to tell you what version(s) you’re getting, with a drop down box to change it if you started off by clicking on the wrong one. (That’s also where they hide the Collector’s, Digital Deluxe, Ultimate, GOTY, etc versions; shall we get rid of those, too, to make it less confusing?) You’re all over the place, and not making any sense, to say nothing of how far afield from the topic we’ve gone at this point. And your parting shot (complete with screenshot showing Steam didn’t have that specific title) doesn’t show… anything of value. Steam still has bucketloads of garbage, orders of magnitude more than PS4/5 and Switch combined. Just search the word “clicker” or “Sakura” and you’ll find plenty. The lack of Xump Jump specifically doesn’t really mean much.

There was no “rule” involved (at least not relating to trophy hunting.) 1,000 Top Rated was removed because the title and description implied it had received a non-existent accolade and could be construed as false advertising. It came right back as Slyde.

Sony collecting their cut for sales on their storefront is a different claim than Sony “chasing that $$$.” The latter implies that Sony is not just allowing it, but actively endorsing or encouraging it. You can play the “silence gives consent” card if you like, but I still think it’s a far cry from the hyperbole your statement implies. That’s aside that the amount they’d be making would be a small percentage of the sticker price per sale, and skimming through the titles on this site, each one claims around 1,300-1,900 owners. Being extremely generous, they might make around $10,000 - and that’s assuming they’re clearing $1 or more per sale, which I doubt, since that would be between 33%-75% of the sale price of each of these games - per game once you factor in all stacks. Sure, it sounds like a lot of money, but realistically, that’s chump change in the big picture. You still didn’t explain how that’s tied to Microsoft during the XB1’s life cycle, which becomes even more suspect when you immediately whip around and claim that MS “actually curates their store.” Further, so far as how they “don’t let utterly rubbish spam trash” on there, well… they might not have Jumping Nuggets TURBO, but they certainly allowed War Gods Zeus of Child on there, so their approval standards might not be as stringent as you think. I find it interesting that you claim Sony are the money hungry ones and act as though the devs are innocent little lambikins. You also seem to exclude the players who continually throw their money at the trash from the blame game. If people would stop buying it, then nobody would make any money, and it would all go away. There’s blame enough for everyone. All that being said, it sounds like you want some gatekeepers. Which I do not inherently disagree with. But as I’ve asked before, both in this thread and elsewhere, who makes the calls? What criteria get used? What happens when someone decides to throw a tantrum because their software didn’t make the cut - whatever the reason - and who gets the blame, then? With the attitudes that have risen around this issue - and with social media in general - adding gatekeeping now is opening up all kinds of new and fascinating - potentially litigious - issues.

What action? They had 1,000 Top Rated taken down because the title and description implied it had won some form of nonexistent accolade, and was thus false advertising. It came right back, and is still there so far as I know (as Slyde.)

Tagging back in. I have since cleared the “Clear 1000 rooms” Challenge. No dice. It still added new Challenges, and five full runs later, still no Ottavio. I have yet to see or hear anything from anyone (including the devs) about it being fixed (though they’re more than happy to spam constantly about the Switch version or the Collector’s Edition.) Think we’re dead in the water, cursed with an eternal 81%. Unfortunate; I actually kind of enjoyed the game. But between the glitched trophies and the inability to use the Perks system (since several of them permanently softlock your save) and the lack of communication, I don’t think I’ll be picking up anything from this developer or publisher in the future. EDIT: Of course, ten minutes after I post this, I get a response from the publisher. They say “Yep, the patch is on the way. We still cannot confirm the exact date but its very very near, and will include more changes important to improve your game experience.” Now, whether that actually means anything or not, 🤷🏻‍♂️ We’ll see, I guess.

Are you suggesting these changes to reflect on PSN itself, only on PSNP, or both? There’s problems with it no matter what, but the biggest hurdle I see is (if you expect it to calculate that way for PSN, which is implied since your issue seems to be that your Hotline Miami 2 gold shouldn’t be compared to a gold earned in Virginia; if I’m wrong, correct me) the amount of back-end bookkeeping that would need to be added to PSN to make it work; doesn’t seem like a good cost vs. result enterprise. Then there’s the ever-present subjectivity of difficulty. You noted yourself, it’s likely someone beat - or claims to have beaten - Hotline Miami 2 on hard with their foot while clipping toenails, but you think it’s hard. I thought Beach Mode in Shantae: Half-Genie Hero was torture. Every time a new Dark Souls-esque game comes out, you have people screaming bloody murder about how unfair they are and it needs to be toned down. Meanwhile, you have the toenail clipper, a gent who speedran and 100%ed Beach Mode without being hit, and the 44% of people who have the Elden Ring Platinum. Who decides how “difficult” it is, and what that’s worth? What objective criteria are involved? Time involvement is also typically subjective, plus would be unfairly weighted in situations where the trophy requirement is just a measure of time, not “Do X” but X takes Y amout of time. Yomawari: Night Alone’s “Long Night” trophy requires you to play for 50 hours; should it thus be worth more than other trophies, even though I almost guarantee most got it by rubberbanding their Vita and walking away? Adjusting the value continually also doesn’t account for sudden popularity influxes or the jump in achievers when a guide or patch is released. “Hard Pass” from The Quarry might be a good example; it was glitching out for most people, so had a very low rarity. Then a patch came out, now the trophy is working as expected, and it became less rare. Does that mean people who earned it pre-patch get to “keep” the points as they were at the the time they got it, or is their score lowered as more people get it? Do we need to add another variable to the equation, where the point at which you achieved it matters? And after all that, the system that would result is still manipulatable. With judicious selection of games (pick anything from PS+ that wasn’t a triple A blockbuster or painfully easy, or go rummaging around in the free to play or PSVR sections, or pick up games that are primarily multiplayer focused but still have campaigns or collectibles) or stacks, you can be rolling in Ultra Rares that aren’t that hard. It might take a little more effort, but still very doable. Lastly, I’ll note that no matter what scale you use, be it four rarities like trophies or 1000 points like Xbox achievements or “arbitrary points with no minimum, maximum or cap” like Steam achievements, it’s always going to boil down to subjectivity and leave open the option for trolling. Bullet Witch has an Achievement worth 1 Gamerscore… for beating the hardest difficulty. I busted my ass to do it back in the day. Not because I cared about the 1 point (though I did, because I hate when my Gamerscore doesn’t end in 0 or 5 🤣) but to say “there, I did it, I beat you, game.” It was probably one of the hardest Achievements I earned. But I got more points for “pressing start” on The Simpsons. Irritating? A little. But it is what it is.

It’s been noted in the thread before, but that was many pages ago, so it bears repeating: we have no idea what this game even is. We have a title. A brief statement that it’s intended to be “ironic.” A picture of the cross button. One of those things doesn’t say anything for or against it being trophy trash (the picture of the button.). One of those things specifically implies it isn’t (the irony statement). One of those things could be assumed to mean it is, but when combined with the “irony” statement implies another meaning (the title.) That’s not enough evidence to make a determination about anything other than “this exists,” let alone that it’s “wearing a badge of honor” or that anyone who buys it is a “degenerate.” I don’t have high hopes; it could very easily be trophy trash, a double-feint, using the irony defense as a trick. It could also be just plain trash, a horrible game that fails on every level yet isn’t “trophy trash.” But there is the possibility that it is a decent game that actually does serve as a satirical send-up of the trophy trash. We won’t know until it arrives and someone plays it.

You know, part of me is now curious how “destroyed” the leaderboards actually are (at least from buy-a-Platinum games.) If we stripped away all the “trophy trash”- and for the purpose of the exercise, I think it honestly doesn’t matter where you set the bar or definition for that - would the leaderboards would actually significantly change? Personally, I think there might be a bit of a shakeup in the 500-5000 ranks, but I doubt it would have a significant impact on the top dogs or the folks lower ranked than that; those ranked lower than that are unlikely to have a lot of EZPZs, regardless of what one defines that is. Those in the top echelons have plenty of “real” games (and a decade head start, in a lot of instances) that would still give them plenty of points to keep them head and shoulders above the rest. That middle ground, where you find a lot of folks who play (and Plat) “real” games while “juicing” the score or manipulating the milestones with “trash” seems like it’d be where the effects are felt and changes in rank more meaningful than dropping or shooting up 10-20 ranks would be likely to occur. It would be sort of interesting to see what the reaction would be if folks got their apparent wish and then discovered it didn’t change the rankings in any meaningful way. I wonder what would be the next crusade?

I have to admit to curiosity myself on that count. Might be an actually interesting, decent game, designed to spur just this sort of discussion. Or it could be garbage, poorly developed and badly executed, but still not a “trophy trash” game. Now, I don’t put great odds on that possibility. There’s plenty of people that use the term either incorrectly, or as some half-assed defense against criticism (whether legitimate, good faith, or otherwise.) But it is a possibility. Given that all we have is a short, vague statement and a screenshot of the cross button, there’s not much to go on, and the knee-jerk reaction that instantly swings into two camps (one shaking their pitchforks, taking the title literally, and trotting out the same arguments for the thousandth time, the other leaping to defend - whether vigorously or not - the trophy trash) calling names and tossing poo seems to leave no room for those who are curious.

I haven’t heard anything concrete at this point, though I certainly have my fingers crossed that there will be some form of backwards compatibility; I have a sizable library of PSVR titles that I effectively can’t play after having to move into a much smaller place and would love to get back to them. There’s been several leakers claiming it will have backwards compatibility, and Sony does overall seem invested in not making your previous gen purchases be a waste, so there’s decent odds, though from a pure technology standpoint I imagine adding BC will be something of a logistics nightmare. They’re essentially inverting the entirety of the motion/tracking/camera functionality, and ditching the DS4/DualSense/Move in favor of dedicated new format controllers might make remapping a bit of an issue (though I suppose nothing says they can’t still use the old controllers.)

Legitimate questions, here: How is any of this related to Sony “chasing that $$$”? How is this indicative of any similarities to what Microsoft was doing with the Xbox One?

“Branding” someone isn’t going to accomplish anything except increase elitism and bickering from both sides of the divide. That isn’t “bettering” the site. That’s aside from the fact that you can usually take a quick scroll through a profile, color-coded or not, and know what’s up, if you care. What would be the actual point? So far as other solutions, I don’t have any. A “rarity leaderboard” would be just as manipulated as the current one. Go find something that was offered on PS+ but wasn’t a stellar triple-A title, play it for an hour, pickup a few Ultra Rares. Easy. (For example: The Swindle’s “You’re A Mean One.” Some basic clock manipulation, and presto, a 2.32% trophy.) You can accomplish the same with free-to-play or VR titles (check the rarities on Borderlands 2 VR or Knights of Valor, for example.) Or picking the “right” stack of a game. Or, as others have noted, pick up something most people play for the multiplayer, then actually do the campaign. Sure, they take a little more homework and effort than pressing X for 3 minutes, but where there’s a will, there’s a way, and there is always the will to climb a leaderboard regardless of how pointless, not indicative of the actual skill supposedly being measured, or finessed it may be. All of that is aside from some trophies that most would likely consider “worthy” that are more common than you’d think, either due to popularity and FOMO or a niche fanbase; Demon’s Souls and Sekiro are both around 27%; Elden Ring is at 44%. Actually, I have one simple solution: Let it be. People want to spend their cash to inflate imaginary numbers in some kind of race to the bottom? Let ‘em.

Candyman… now there’s one I hadn’t seen mentioned that would be great.