HaSoOoN-MHD

This a serious list or are you being cheeky? genuinely curious.

I'd honestly need to rewatch TFA to sufficiently respond to this since some of the details are blurry on my end, too - and that movie certainly doesn't have the finesse that Empire Strikes Back had but it had some moments that I would describe as similar. Finn's introduction, for instance - when he refuses to fire. You can tell from the start he's less of a mindless mook and an actual human beneath the helmet. Rey's introduction tells you right away that she's a survivor, hardened by cruel living conditions in the middle of absolutely no where. Just how interesting would that be, though? that's what I thought going in to the movie too and it could have been a good story in it's own right but I don't think it would be anywhere near as interesting or innovative for the Star Wars universe as the path Rian took which opened so many interesting connotations for the Jedi/Sith duality and the force as a whole. And I think the movie already does say that; Luke says multiple times over

Since you asked me to quote. With that aside, let's take those five elements and take about them in relation to TLJ because TFA is a good starting point and not much else. It's good, sure - but that's about it.

Hey-ho thanks for proving my point with this post and I appreciate the honesty. You don't need to agree with my opinion, but you very clearly said that anyone who doesn't see things your way is a child and/or a fanboy. It's all in this thread, I don't have to backtrack to show it to you; and you condescend even further here. I'd argue The Last Jedi does hold up under scrutiny. The whole movie is about those new characters fighting against the mold and the narrative that they have to live up to; and the movie as a whole has an almost meta tone to it in regards to the new trilogy, it's place in the franchise and even the fans too. The way it deals with the light/dark paradigm and the force is also very interesting. It has more substance than the entirety of the prequel series, TFA and Rogue One combined [as much as I love Rogue One] and no one is claiming TLJ is this intellectual giant of a film but it is genuinely good. People have been talking and analyzing the original trilogy for 40 years partially because of the context when they came out, because they genuinely are great movies and because everyone has fucking nostalgia goggles on, too.

If you're going to condescend man up to it don't pretend you weren't implying that we're all blind deluded children for liking the movie that you didn't like. This is also something i'v noticed a lot when the OT is brought up, actually. You're proving my point here by mentioning The Hero's Journey - which for some reason people act like it is this in depth sacred text that alleviates the OT into unattainable high art - it is the most basic template for the progression of the protagonist/story which is fine it's own right and I cannot stress enough that IT WORKED FOR THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY but where the story is at right now and where the franchise is at right now Luke had to change. The same way Kylo is this incredibly fucking powerful Sith when he's for all intents and purposes incredibly young for his talents and strength. There is a lot of raw power in both Rey and Kylo; and it is directly stated that Rey's power is a consequence to Kylo's own.

Let's be real outside of parts of RotJ Luke is more of a vehicle for the audience than a deep, fleshed out character. This is remarkably condescending from someone who kept yapping on about respecting other opinions; and one other thing I wanted to mention: when the canon [or your perception of the canon, that is] becomes more important than telling a good story it's not a franchise worth continuing.

Rey is so not perfect and she's in the same place Luke was in his respective trilogy. The movie does not go ''fuck you'' to people who grew up believing in Luke; it actually counts on the audience having grown up. It's speaking to that person, the person who grew up on SW. Luke is still Luke. He still has some of his humor, his moments with but he has also changed. Time has passed, it would frankly be insulting to the audience if we're supposed to expect that this person has stayed the same as time changed. He shows a more human side and he's less of a caricature and he makes actual mistakes and has his own interesting arc.

Lol this is only because everyone is liking it now in retrospect. People hated that film, a lot still do for reasons as dumb as the supposed evil SJW propaganda trying to take over the western world or w/e to it being an ANH rehash to a slew of different things, but just like the CoD cycle the last movie is always better than the new one and it goes on and on and on. This movie is great because it goes against the grain. It reminds us why we love SW while deconstructing the movies and lore. Lol this is only because everyone is liking it now in retrospect. People hated that film, a lot still do for reasons as dumb as the supposed evil SJW propaganda trying to take over the western world or w/e to it being an ANH rehash to a slew of different things, but just like the CoD cycle the last movie is always better than the new one and it goes on and on and on. This movie is great because it goes against the grain. It reminds us why we love SW while deconstructing the movies and lore.

Hamill has also said that he is very proud of what the movie turned out to be and that he consider Rian to be a brilliant director - this is a big change for the character, no one is denying this - and for an actor like Mark who's played this iconic figure in pop culture for so long it's obvious that he would be taken by surprise; but if Mark's heart ultimately wasn't in the project his performance wouldn't be half as good as it turned out to be. People don't want change so we get TFA and then people want change so we TLJ and they like neither and the main takeaway is you can never win with this fandom.

None of the developments in the movie felt unjustified or out of no where. If you're referring to Luke, his development made him interesting and less of a caricature and more of an actual person.

i am baffled at some people calling this movie bland and/or uninteresting. It is as far away from SW as you can get while still being Star Wars, it was risky and familiar all at once and I love it for that.

that's not how any of this works lmao