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Cd projekt offering refunds


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16 minutes ago, VigilantCrow said:

Ah yes the random pleb thinks he knows more than me, because his opinion differs from mine.

Anything of value you want to add, or are you just going to act the same as me and pretend you're not?

 

you know what? Release a piece of software without bugs, then talk.

Whoever is without sin, first stone, bla bla...

 

Even my shitty Flappy Bird clone has bugs!

http://sicho.info/page1.html

 

EDIT: shitty as in: it is not a complex piece of software

Edited by Sicho
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Just now, VigilantCrow said:

Sounds like yet another person making excuses for poor development. Bugs are fine, having a broken product isn't. 

When my clients buy a product, they expect it to be working from the moment it enters their possession. CDPR and all devs in general should be held to the same standard as every other industry.

 

so when does an entertainment product "not work"? Clearly, many people are entertained by it. So it is working, right?

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2 minutes ago, Sicho said:

 

so when does an entertainment product "not work"? Clearly, many people are entertained by it. So it is working, right?

You can be entertained by glitches sure. There's a whole niche in games like Goat Simulator.

That's not what was advertised though, now was it?

 

 

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Just now, VigilantCrow said:

You can be entertained by glitches sure. There's a whole niche in games like Goat Simulator.

That's not what was advertised though, now was it?

 

 

 

If I play the game on a black and white 320p TV, it will also look nothing like advertised.

Would still be entertaining though?

 

The thing is, people like you are talking like the game is unplayable and unenjoyable - which it is clearly not, no matter the platform. There are issues, sure. But the game is still an enjoyable piece of software. And the worst things are already more or less ironed out with Patch 1.04 which came literally a day after release. Should it have been like this right away? Absolutely. But is this patch a day later really an unbearable issue that is worth trashing the game for and never playing it again? No, it literally is no big dea!. Mistakes were made, some of them were already rectified. And for those that still are not satisfied with the product, compensation in form of refunds are available.
 

A shit show for sure but let's be reasonable here: getting a "broken videogame" is literally a First World Problem. So people should cool their tempers a bit. Others don't know how to put food on the table for Christmas thanks to the pandemic and what not, and meanwhile people here are crying because their new shiny toy is not as shiny as they expected and they can't be arsed to wait for a few days for the devs to rectify the issues.

I understand the frustration of many people but as usual on the internet, it's all blown way out of porportion! Yeah, the crashes are annoying, the bugs can be annoying and the graphics could be better and maybe the performance could be better... but it's not like the world ended. Take a chill pill.

Yes, maybe when you took a day off on launch day and where greeted with a mess of a game and then, when the patch came you are not off work anymore and you don't have the time to play anymore... that#s one of many possible frustrating situations one could have been in because of this bad launch. And sure, that is frustrating. But in the end, it's still only entertainment! Yeah, sucks ass not being able to properly enjoy a game you might have been waiting for forever. But it's not the end of the world.

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And just to be crystal clear: I don't condone "lazy" devs or broken games.

 

But for me, there is a difference between a game that doesn't work (as in: doesn't even start) and may be broken beyond repair, a game with (overcomeable) issues (like this one) and, what some people seem to expect, a "flawless" game that never needs a patch.
 

And sorry, the latter is just an unreasonable expectation in this day and age. With the scope and complexity of video games nowadays, there will probably never be another AAA title that never needs a patch - no matter how good the devs are. And a Day 1 Patch is not a bad thing either. It means that the devs continued working and polishing the game even when it went Gold - instead of resting on their laurels. Because there are also many Day 1 Patches out there, that aren't necessary but just improve an already good experience even more.

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I kind of expected a disaster (not on these levels though) after CDPR expanded, hell, frankly I don't even know how many people  that worked on TW3 are still there. Comparisons with No  Man's Sky are apt, they're both games that suffered from the hype machines   and they're both companies forced to solve the problem, as they don't have the notoriety that something like EA has to brush off bad PR.

At least I won't see any longer bots that spam how Activision EA and Ubisoft are evil incarnate and CDPR the second coming of Jesus, so, let's just wait  the next corporation idiots will worship, first it was Bethesda with their shot at EA for criticizing single player, then CDPR after 76, now, I don't know, frankly, let's find out.

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10 minutes ago, Fish613 said:

Um No. Hello Games with No Man's Sky EASILY has the biggest fail gaming history.

 

Atari took a major financial loss as a result of that fail and was enough to lead to the company being divided and sold off shortly after as well as a catalyst for crashing the video games industry as a whole. Did that happen to Hello Games?

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1 hour ago, TJ_Solo said:

 Aren't we still waiting for the Factions mode of TLOU2?

They removed factions from TLOU2 because they said something along the lines of it had grown bigger than they expected so they removed it and they said it was coming out as it's own game whether that actually happens and the project ever see's the light of day or not is anybody's guess at this point.

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51 minutes ago, Sicho said:

 

not even close!

 

Here are some other suggestions: ET game, Virtual Boy, CD-i Zelda games, Daikatana, the Ouya ...


damn right - or to add some more recent ones - Halo collection, Sim City (the rebooted one), NBA Live, Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 5, hell, even GTA V online was a goddamned disaster at the time of launch. 
 

Hello Games over promised, and under delivered, but from what I’ve seen and heard, they have righted the ship now. CD Projeckt still has to prove they can do that to garner any rep back.

 

Personally, I suspect they won’t. I played The Witcher III years after launch, and it crashed and deleted my save within the first 2 hours...  - just pure luck that I hadn’t earned any trophies at that point and could quietly delete the game and never go back - so I remain to be convinced about their technical prowess, at least as far as Playstation consoles go.

 

hope they get it sorted though. Cyberpunk looks like fun, if it worked.

Edited by DrBloodmoney
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7 hours ago, TJ_Solo said:

 

I had NMS since launch. I followed all the pre and post release news. The game at launch was exactly what I expected it to be minus the space whales and very, very rare crashing. NMS from the get go was stated to be a journey for both the player and the devs. There would be many free updates coming after launch. Getting content updates doesn't mean the base game was incomplete in anyway. So of you people view "completeness" as a matter of the devs doing nothing at all with the game. Is that even a reasonable idea in 2020? 

 

The examples of Sony games are ironic considering how many of the Sony 1st party games had to patch in NG+ and higher difficulty modes after the inital release. I remember many people on here complaining about how adding new modes after release along with trophies would mess up their 100%. Aren't we still waiting for the Factions mode of TLOU2? Did SackBoy get the online multiplayer update yet?

 

There's no "back in the day" where patch weren't necessary. Games were always full of bugs. Consoles weren't online so they could not get patches. PC at the time were online and those games do have patches. 

 

Another problem people like you have is all the false comparisons and unrealistic rules. "Naughty Dog can make a perfect game so everyone else should too" foh.

CP2077 needs fixing. In a few months another big game will need major fixing...so on and so forth. This is normal and not dire or signs of the apocalypse. Gaming has never been as perfect as you recall or want to imply.

 

The game wasn't "garbage" at launch though. I merely pointed out to the other poster that NMS has won awards for being a great ongoing game with great community support. Did I lie? 

You and the other person seem to be stuck on NMS being one thing and/or are only capable of seeing the bad regardless of any change. So, maybe CP2077 is more like NMS than I thought.

I can see you are very disagreeable on almost everything anybody says so i'm not going too say much except comparing the sony games to CD project Red isn't even a close comparison Sony games are in far better shape at launch and of far better quality in general.  I'm not saying they are absolutely perfect.  However, if you look at wha patch some of their game are on like 1.04  versus 1.36 i'd say that speaks for itself.  Of course i'm generally speaking i don't have those numbers off the top of my head.    Also , it's not all about you, you may have got what you expected out of NMS but there are a lot of people whom were very disappointed. Furthermore in the days of 8 and 64 bit game the game were absolutely not full of bugs, of course they sometimes had a bug or two in them but to say they were fully of them it is not so.  I assure you there was a back in the day I was there.   so i'll leave it at that I wasn't making my comment as a case for argument so i was a bit surprised you made a list of everything you disagree with but it's ok.  have fun.

Edited by steel6burgh
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9 hours ago, Sicho said:

 

If I play the game on a black and white 320p TV, it will also look nothing like advertised.

Would still be entertaining though?

 

Using that as a point of debate is an insult to everyone's intelligence, your self included.

 

If the game was advertised using amped up PC footage and sold as an inferior version on console, that could potentially be false advertisement.  Plus. I dont think the people constantly crashing are enjoying it too much.

 

Yes, those can be corrected with patches, but much of the uproar is people feeling they've been lied to (which they kindof were)

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6 hours ago, AJ_-_808 said:

 

Using that as a point of debate is an insult to everyone's intelligence, your self included.

 

If the game was advertised using amped up PC footage and sold as an inferior version on console, that could potentially be false advertisement.  Plus. I dont think the people constantly crashing are enjoying it too much.

 

Yes, those can be corrected with patches, but much of the uproar is people feeling they've been lied to (which they kindof were)

 

well, on every game box are Bullshots and as long as there is not a statement on the screens saying things like "Actual PS4 graphics" or something, it's not false advertising. Otherwise, you could also sue McDonalds for false advertising because their burgers never look like the pictures on the menus. ;) I would be just, but inreality it's not the world we live in.
I mean FF7 on PSX back in the day also used mainly the CGI scenes in their advertising, not the real gameplay graphics ...
Final Fantasy VII 7 PSX Advert from Computer And Video Games Magazine Issue  193 December 1997 : FinalFantasy

 

So, nothing new there :D


The thing is - and therefore the analogy with the TV - if you are playing on older tech, that's not Cyberpunks fault. Get a high end gaming PC and you get the trailers graphics. Use the game on lower platforms - lower your expectations as well.

I mean if they would have shown the PC graphics trailers and would have said "this is how it looks on base PS4", then you might have a point. But they never did. The trailers were always - and that's true for every game trailer ever - the best case scenario on the best hardware available.

 

CDPR are known to "lie" in trailers though, this was also a thing with Witcher 3 back in the day, were everybody was screaming "DOWNGRADE!!!" when the game released. So I don't give CDPR a pass, I think they should have learned their lesson back then already. But on the other hand, gamers are apparently also a bunch of naive fools sometimes.

Did anyone really expected it to look anything like the trailers on Last Gen??

I mean they showed I think one video on PS4 Pro and then on PS5 PS4BC before the release. It looked okayish and - in my opinion - that's when everybody should have known that THIS was the best they could hope for on Last Gen.
Here's the video in question:

 

And that's how it looks and runs on PS4 Pro, I can confirm. If you don't want to take my word for it, maybe take a look at one or two of my PS4 Pro Streams
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/838335667

or

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/834045599

 

Granted that it didn't EXACTLY run like this on Day 1 at midnight - but since the 1.04 patch, which released a mere day after launch, the performance and graphics are on par with what this video showed.
 

They didn't show base PS4, that's true. They had their reasons, no matter what they tell us - THAT is the shady, unappealing part of this story.

But also, no one in their right mind would have expected base PS4 to look like this video, even less to look like anyone of the official trailers, which ALWAYS show the High End Graphics. At least that's my opinion.

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16 hours ago, VigilantCrow said:

When my clients buy a product, they expect it to be working from the moment it enters their possession. CDPR and all devs in general should be held to the same standard as every other industry.

 

Maybe if the clients didn't act like spoiled entitled children and didn't throw a fit whenever a game is delayed, CDPR could have taken their time and released a finished game.

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35 minutes ago, Sicho said:

 

The thing is - and therefore the analogy with the TV - if you are playing on older tech, that's not Cyberpunks fault. Get a high end gaming PC and you get the trailers graphics. Use the game on lower platforms - lower your expectations as well.

I mean if they would have shown the PC graphics trailers and would have said "this is how it looks on base PS4", then you might have a point. But they never did. The trailers were always - and that's true for every game trailer ever - the best case scenario on the best hardware available.

 

 

Except it was announced, developed, and advertised for the ps4. You cant just upgrade a console like a pc to make a game run better.   In this case, the ps4 would be the standard/base with the pro being the "high end" and your 320p tv would be a ps3 - something it was never intended for.

 

The version released should, at the very least, have been stable.  That can be corrected in time, but the PR damage was already done.

 

Some people are complaining about the graphics, but most of us do know better.  

 

CDPR used to be better than this

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On 14.12.2020 at 6:20 PM, Sicho said:

Remember what happened when they delayed it last time?

 

The company's stock value fell by around 25% and they received a shit ton of death threats etc.

 

Ask yourself: would you have delayed it another time after that experience?

 

Financially, it could have ruined the company and therefore put many people out of a job - during a pandemic. Also, some psycho might have turned up with a gun at their office at some point if they delayed it further... people sometimes run amok for less...

 

Not saying that the game's current state is great but I don't know what I would have done in their place.

 

And the reason why I'm a bit more lenient in this case is that the pandemic probably wrought havoc on the development but since another delay wasn't possible without taking huge risks, they were in a bad spot. I'm pretty sure without Covid 19, this game launch would have been different.

 

Also, the v1.04 patch adressed a lot of issues. It's still not perfect, but at least on PS4 Pro, where I'm playing, it's good enough to get enjoyment out of the game. I'm playing for over 30h so far, which is a good sign that I'm having fun. Otherwise I would be back at Yakuza 7 already ;)

You are absolutely right. CD Project Red is one of the most playerfriendly Studio.

Until now they made a lot of good statements and games. They don't even want different versions of the games they sell at launch (ultimate, collectors etc. edition).

 

Just as you said, they were rushed to release Cyberpunk 2077 by the playerbase and the market. It is allready an incredible gesture to offer a refund after all this.

This studio has all my respect for the course of action and their conscience regarding the players.

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38 minutes ago, AJ_-_808 said:

CDPR used to be better than this

 

when?

only console things they did before this was Witcher 2 and 3. And oh how I still remember the Witcher 3 debacle...

 

Here, a good read about it and CDPRs position and reasons

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-05-19-cd-projekt-red-tackles-the-witcher-3-graphics-downgrade-issue-head-on

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1 hour ago, Asuna Yuuki said:

I don't wanna sound harsh and all but I'm not asking for a refund. I decided to keep the game and platinum it. Despite the crashes, glitches etc. I still enjoy the game very much and still has alot of potential to it and that is enough for me.

Don’t know how this would sound harsh. But I respect the choice. I’m very much enjoying the game as well despite the bugs and 3-4 crashes I experience per session.

 

As far as a refund goes I have two opinions, one logical and one not so much. Straight up I believe anyone playing on the base consoles should be entitled to their money back, plain and simple.

 

However on the flip side I don’t really feel they should bother to get said money back. My thoughts on this is if you’re playing it on PS4 you’ll eventually have a PS5... we have no set date on Cyberpunk’s PS5 version. It most certainly will not be discounted and they could even bump it up to 70$ as some other games have done (although I don’t think they will). Your PS5 upgrade is free if you own the PS4... you bought it because you want to play it. So... just wait ?. Spend 60$ or 60$ (Maybe 70$) next year, still spending the money.

Edited by Skurkitty
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8 minutes ago, Skurkitty said:

However on the flip side I don’t really feel they should bother to get said money back. My thoughts on this is if you’re playing it on PS4 you’ll eventually have a PS5... we have no set date on Cyberpunk’s PS5 version. It most certainly will not be discounted and they could even bump it up to 70$ as some other games have done (although I don’t think they will). Your PS5 upgrade is free if you own the PS4... you bought it because you want to play it. So... just wait ?1f3fb.png‍♂️. Spend 60$ or 60$ (Maybe 70$) next year, still spending the money.

 

This argument hinges on some very specific presumptions around financial flexibility, when/if people will choose to upgrade to PS5 and future pricing of the game.

 

Firstly -  I find it very hard to believe that after this absolute clown-show of a situation, CD Projekt will bump up the PS5 price of the game. If anything it will be at a reduced price considering the amount of heavy duty backlash and reputation damage this has incurred. Waiting until mid-next year under the assumption that it might be more expensive is just.....what....

 

Secondly - $70 is not a small amount of money by any means. It's just a normalised amount. If you could only afford to splurge on one game over a longer period of time. You've effectively given CD Projekt $70 to sit on until an undisclosed future date and in the interim you are down both $70 and a game to play. It might work for you and I'm very lucky to be currently in a position where I can take the hit. But I have very much been in a position multiple times in my life where I have enough to get one game over a long space of time and if I put myself in those shoes, the conversation around this completely changes.

 

The argument to wait literally only works if you are lucky enough to have disposable income to the extent where you can happily 'donate' $70 to CD Projekt indefinitely and go buy other games in the interim.

 

Letting CDP sit on the money changes it from being a straightforward purchase to something closer to an unnecessary investment. You are going from someone who gave a company money for a product under the expectation that it would be received as advertised - to someone who received a faulty product and is now letting the company keep the money for an unknown amount of time under the vague assumption that the product will be fixed. It's a completely distorted way of looking at it.

 

Get the money back if you can. Use the money on something else you can enjoy in the mean time.

 

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On 12/16/2020 at 5:11 PM, VigilantCrow said:

Ah yes the random pleb thinks he knows more than me, because his opinion differs from mine.

Anything of value you want to add, or are you just going to act the same as me and pretend you're not?

 

Two points (facts, actually) I added:

1) game receiving day one patch does not equal not working product

2) math does not add up in statement 99 % games do not work without day one patch

 

Random pleb? I guess insulting is easier than learning to read. Don't bother replying. I won't be wasting any more time with you since your first reaction is an insult.

 

 

On 12/16/2020 at 5:28 PM, VigilantCrow said:

Sounds like yet another person making excuses for poor development. Bugs are fine, having a broken product isn't. 

When my clients buy a product, they expect it to be working from the moment it enters their possession. CDPR and all devs in general should be held to the same standard as every other industry.

 

Since the guy you replied to quoted me, I would like to make one thing clear. I'm not making excuses for poor development. I argued about you suggesting day one patch = product not working/needed to be fixed and 99 % of games being in this state when released.

 

Edited by BloodyRutz
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