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ExistentialSolid's "Please Destroy Me" Detour


ExistentialSolid

New Nomination List ~ Poll #1  

12 members have voted

  1. 1. Which of the following games would you like to see next?

    • Moon Hunters
      5
    • Attacking Zegeta 2
      5
    • GoNNer 2
      1
    • XPosed Reloaded
      0
    • Mr. Driller: DrillLand
      2


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19 hours ago, ExistentialSolid said:

I think you're the first player to actually use my Splasher videos. 1f602.png I'm happy to hear that they helped you though (it makes the whole process worthwhile). Keeping your cool can be tough, but if you get a strong start, you can build up a time buffer that can go a long way in calming your nerves towards the end. Good luck! I'm sure I'll see you in the 100% club soon enough! 

Definitely not the first person. I've been using your videos quite a bit as well actually and they were quite useful! What I often did was use your videos as a sort of reference to what the most optimal path would be, and then sometimes compare it to a more doable platinum route (often used @Arcesius videos for that haha). I actually feel like having multiple references made this plat quite a bit more doable than it was for people who had to figure things out more on their own ?

 

Also, regarding your idea for the event, I think it's an interesting concept for sure. I agree with it being best to have just one game at a time, I don't think there's much of an issue if there's only say 3-4 people participating for a game, it'll still be fun to read I think and also easier to keep up with everyone's individual progress. I mostly like the idea because it's a pretty unique combination between a checklist and an event, and no need to swing too much into the event side of things imo.

Hopefully something comes out that I can participate with as well, though the next few hard games I'm planning are things you have already done, like VVVVVV and Trackmania Turbo, but of course I can always change plans if a really fun looking game gets picked ?

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Ah okay, I see exactly how you mean now! Yes I agree that it would be a very fun way to approach this. That way we could commiserate with each other during the process! 

 

It sounds great and you can def count me in for this, no matter what it is ? Even in the event that it would be something I've ready done, as a somewhat regular guide writer, I'm always happy to share my tips and my experiences to others who are on the grind!

 

I think Nuclear Throne would be something I'll suggest, when the time comes of course. Very much looking forward to it ?

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33 minutes ago, ExistentialSolid said:

I think a common theme among the players that have given feedback so far is one of trepidation. The games that I've played for this thread might be fun to watch others play, but may carry little appeal themselves. In the same way that people go to the circus to watch people walk across tightropes but would have no intention of doing so themselves, the idea behind this thread (and the hypothetical event) may be more fun to experience as a spectacle than something that would actively encourage communal participation. 

With this feedback in mind, I have one final question for anyone that would like to offer their input.

6. How can I appeal to players that don't think they have the potential to complete difficult games?

 

I really like the idea of this event that you've come up with & I think it will be something interesting to follow for many others. I'm sure the event itself will get many to go for different games that probably wouldn't have been played otherwise. It is always nice to try new things out & it makes it easier knowing that others are going through the same thing so I think this will do very well. I will definitely follow this.

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1 hour ago, ExistentialSolid said:

6. How can I appeal to players that don't think they have the potential to complete difficult games?


Firstly, I think the idea of the “Please Destroy Us” event is awesome. I’m all for anything that both brings people together and encourages others to step outside of their comfort zone.

 

I think in general - any event that pushes us to encourage one another to overcome challenge, routing for each other as a community - to me captures the very essence of why the checklist space is so special - which I know many others would agree with.
 

Add the fact that your personal journey to be “Destroyed” has been so very excellently documented and fun to follow, I think you’re on to a winner here personally. 
 

As for how to appeal to those who maybe lack the confidence in their own ability to beat some of the tough games, that’s a tricky one. I reckon you’d only need a few people to step up and prove their own doubts wrong - in order to get a few more fired up from the side lines and wanting to do the same themselves in the next round.

 

I’d say don’t underestimate what the encouragement from yourself as well as a few others can do for the less confident gamers, who will no doubt get involved in the conversation as the event starts to get going. Sometimes that alone is all it takes to give people the nudge they need to go and accomplish something they maybe thought impossible beforehand. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, ExistentialSolid said:

Based on the feedback I've received so far, I need to find a way to appeal to players that aren't confident they can get difficult games finished. I never wanted to create an environment that breeds feelings of inadequacy in observers or elitism in the players that have the guts to participate. I want everyone to feel welcome, to try their best, and to encourage each other to push to the finish line. The question is how to convincingly create this sort of environment. ?


-   -   -

I think a common theme among the players that have given feedback so far is one of trepidation. The games that I've played for this thread might be fun to watch, but may carry little appeal themselves. In the same way that people go to the circus to see people walk across tightropes but would have no intention of walking across tightropes themselves, the idea behind this thread (and the hypothetical event) may be more fun to experience as a spectacle than something that would actively encourage communal participation. 

With this feedback in mind, I have one final question for anyone that would like to offer their input.

6. How can I appeal to players that don't think they have the potential to complete difficult games?

 

That's a tricky question, unfortunately we are increasingly living in a world where people tend to play games less to have fun or challenge themselves, but more of a form of relaxing escapism/collecting trophies.

 

The latter of course is unfortunately a big issue with playing hard games. Hard games denote an amount of not only effort to learn but time too. Which are both 2 things people don't want to commit to these days. Especially since being high on the leader boards is about quantity over quality and time limiting, people want as many trophies as possible in as short a space of time.

 

Leading to most people not playing hard games, or even short hard games and just sticking with stuff they are used too.

 

Being middle aged my reaction times are not what they used to be, but having a family and full time job, when I go to games l don't have really tons of time to sit down and learn, and get good anymore, unless it's a game that I really like, I'm the first admit that I don't really want to branch out and try new hard games anymore. If I have got 2 hours to play games I feel myself wanting to make 2 hours of progress on a game, whether it's story, levelling up. I somehow feel in a way that if I spent 2 hours trying to pass a level, but still not passed it, I would feel annoyed and feel like I have wasted 2 hours, because next time I have free time, no idea when, I might have forgotten or lost the skills of what I was doing, making the challenge more frustrating than it needs to be. Gone are the days when I would wake up, turn on my Playstation and play for about 14 hours before going to sleep. I'd have tons of time to practice, plus I didn't have a backlog of 50+ games and back then games didn't seem to come out so often, so trying to get the most out of what games I had, get the value out the games. I'd be more up for the challenge.

 

I think the biggest fear for everyone else, and including myself, is seeing that less than 100% trophy list that you inevitably can't delete anymore, should you decide that the challenge you accepted is infact too much. A lot of people especially on this are OCD about their 100% or high completion rate and well, I think there's a lot of trophy issues with people that makes difficulty an issue. When you give up, that trophy list looks back at you, for all time

 

And right in the modern era, now a lot of people will jump on board and play just about any old shit, as long as it's easy, short or both. Which I think is kinda sad, but hey, that's the world we live in now.

 

Yeah, sorry I didn't really have any advice on how to make hard games more appealing to people, just wanted to kinda highlight some of the issues you're going to have to contend with if you do want to appeal to other people. Time is the biggest enemy for me, and in second place concentration/lack of willingness to spent all my time just on one game because doing so would mean I probably need to play only one game for most of the year.

 

Right now I would probably prefer to have the memories and experience of finishing 2-4 easier games than completing just 1 hard game.

 

I honestly have a lot of fun just reading about your adventures, I don't feel like I need to attend, 10-20 years ago I likely would have though.

Edited by enaysoft
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I'm just going to go by what several others have already said. I think your thread is one of the very best on these forums and it's a great motivator not only for you to come forward to tackle these hard challenges, but for other people who are following along.

 

Most of my own trophy list is composed of easy to medium difficulty level games. Stuff like Super Meat Boy, Surgeon Simulator and the like are a small handful of hard games. I generally prefer games that are in the medium range, not too easy, not too hard, but games I can sit by and have fun with. You can make the argument that some of the Yakuza games, especially the newer ones, easily satisfy this category.

 

Unfortunately like most everyone else, I'm no longer able to sit down and play a game for hours on end. I'm now at a point in my life where I have to look after my aging parents, both of whom are having to watch their diet intake and need help around the neighborhood because they are old and retired. In the past, both of them worked long hours but they were still young enough to look after themselves without too much worry.

 

I've been working on the final DLC for Fallout 4 and I've already been on it for a few days now. Around a decade ago, had the game existed and I had the means to finish it, I probably would of gotten it all done in a couple quick days. No more.

 

It's not that I don't have the skills, or don't have the actual dedication. But I hate where the gaming industry is heading towards. The PlayStation 5 has been out for a little over a year now and I don't think I ever felt so damn monotone with the crap selection. Not just Sony, but also Microsoft and Nintendo. I've mostly been playing old stuff from the late 1980s to the late 2000s, particularly some old strategy games on Steam that came out during a time when the industry was still innovating.

 

What happened with The Last of Us Part II and Cyberpunk 2077 has really soured my anticipation to look forward to new big releases. Now we're seeing R* re-releasing GTA V for the PS5 this coming year, and it just reminds me of the general attitude the industry has taken. Why put in the effort to make a new IP with new original characters and new set pieces when you can just milk an existing franchise for all its got? That's exactly what we're seeing, with microtransactions/lootboxes taking the forefront, in-game advertising being in practically every AAA game now and the industry mostly being stagnant. Even Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart, while it's a good game, doesn't do anything that A Crack in Time or the 2016 reboot haven't already done. It's just now in 4K, 60 FPS, which is certainly nice, but that's barely the reason I play games to begin with.

 

Like you in a way, I prefer smaller indie games and AA production level games, since those who care about the industry and are still involved in it haven't forgotten what can make a game great. It can be tough to be motivated for some of these games, I had my moments of nearly giving up on Super Meat Boy and was close to hanging up the towel with Resogun. The time I've spent with those games was totally worth it, and I simply refuse to jump on the bandwagon of playing any shit game because it's easy and short. They're not fun to me. Neither are AAA games that try to shove down their politics and microtransaction bullshit down my throat.

 

For instance, Shovel Knight has so much of what I love about gaming. On the other hand, The Last of Us Part II represents almost everything I hate about today's gaming industry. I prefer Shovel Knight. Gets the job done, is satisfying enough for casuals, and offers a good challenge for those of us who strive to push our gaming limits.

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8 hours ago, ExistentialSolid said:

Haha, well you were easy to convince. 1f602.png I'm sure there are plenty of ways to improve the event idea, but sticking with one game is something I feel is crucial to preserve that cohesive sense of community. It would be so much easier to quit or jump ship to another game if we give the participants the wiggle room to do so by offering multiple games.

Hehe well what can I say?!! I am very easily swayed when someone is able to string words together as eloquently as you ? I think I also just missed that this was the whole point of you wanting to do this initially. It sounds like a much more fun approach to taking on the hardest of the hard stuff!

 

8 hours ago, ExistentialSolid said:

Based on the feedback I've received so far, I need to find a way to appeal to players that aren't confident they can get difficult games finished. I never wanted to create an environment that breeds feelings of inadequacy in observers or elitism in the players that have the guts to participate. I want everyone to feel welcome, to try their best, and to encourage each other to push to the finish line. The question is how to convincingly create this sort of environment. 1f914.png


-   -   -

I think a common theme among the players that have given feedback so far is one of trepidation. The games that I've played for this thread might be fun to watch, but may carry little appeal themselves. In the same way that people go to the circus to see people walk across tightropes but would have no intention of walking across tightropes themselves, the idea behind this thread (and the hypothetical event) may be more fun to experience as a spectacle than something that would actively encourage communal participation. 

With this feedback in mind, I have one final question for anyone that would like to offer their input.

6. How can I appeal to players that don't think they have the potential to complete difficult games?

As for this part of the spectrum, I think others have touched on it in that I think the best approach is to keep things very encouraging!! You could lay out in the initial post something to the effect that these are games that are supposed to be intimidating, that they maybe don't think they would be able to finish under normal circumstances. Which is kind of the point of the event. It should be meant to push themselves to their limits and conquer some beasts they didn't think they could otherwise, all whilst in a friendly and encouraging environment!

 

It could maybe be encouraged for them to post often, through each step they make along the way, even if it's just small steps! Then other participants would (hopefully anyway) congratulate them and try to keep them motivated to see it all the way through. If someone happens to be struggling, just try to be very encouraging not to give up hope. I know getting similar sorts of motivation from others has helped me see more than a few challenging games through!

 

I am looking back at my past year here, which was pretty successful IMO... I think a large part of that was due to joining the UR Cleanup Challenge, which I know you are in too! It kept me motivated to stick things out even when I was struggling, whereas previously I tended to back off of many things when times were getting tough. So hopefully an event like this could get others to do the same too.

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Hey Ex, this is a great idea! I had something similar in mind recently, I’d toyed with the idea of creating my own checklist but instead of simply talking about games I complete/had completed I wanted to make it something people could get involved with. Most of the hard games on my to-do are platformers, so my thought was to have a “Let’s go platforming” style checklist/event where as a community we would chose one game from the list, or from other nominations similar to yourself. After the game had been decided upon, myself and how ever other many people wanted to get involved would set to work, and try our best to finish! Even if only one other person wanted to join and try to complete it, to me that’s a success. It’s one person willing to have a shot at something they might not think they can do. With the recent influx of checklists I decided not to go ahead with it, and maybe save it for a lull in later times! 
 

On 06/12/2021 at 6:12 AM, ExistentialSolid said:

Players that don't think they can finish game X are exactly the sorts of people I want to see playing game X. ...I just don't know how to make that happen. ?


The age old question, haha. After a little thought, I definitely think the trial run would help, you see in other event threads players coming along later wanting to get involved after seeing how things go at the beginning and feeling motivated to join in. Another idea would be to post in a different forum section, out with checklists and events, maybe just the PlayStation Network general section (mods is this allowed?! ?) creating a thread and simply asking people what it is that would make them more willing to step outside their comfort zone and try a hard game they normally wouldn’t touch. 
 

I definitely feel the encouragement and sharing of tips/tricks as two or more players work together at something helps, it also feels like you’re not on your own trying to decipher everything Game X has to throw at you. Sometimes the smallest detail could make a difference and you might never notice unless someone else tells you!

 

I personally would like to join the event if it goes ahead because there are a shit ton of hard games out there that scare me but I’m also coming to a stage where I’d like to expand my horizons to genres I don’t usually dip my toes into! Good luck!

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2 minutes ago, ExistentialSolid said:

It's true that most hard games take a lot of time and dedication to complete, but I wanted to try my best to accommodate people with tighter schedules by extending the participation deadlines for each game. For example, my plan was to allot 2 months towards a 30-60 hour game (less than an hour a day on average) while a 75-100 hour game would be given 3 months. I'll have to finetune the deadlines as the event goes on, but my goal is to be as inclusive as possible without boring too many people.


When it comes to the direction of the gaming industry, I'd kinda have to agree that there's not much pressuring me to upgrade to a PS5 anytime soon. That said, I think there's still gameplay innovation here and there. While I can't speak for Microsoft, I'd argue that some of the most innovative titles in the past 5 years have been developed by Nintendo (specifically Mario Odyssey and Breath of the Wild). Unfortunately, innovation is much riskier financially than it used to be, so I can't say I'm too surprised by the general decline even if it upsets me too.

[Side Note: Thanks for the recommendation with Woah Dave! The game was brutal, but I had fun with it. Since it was a shorter arcade experience, I won't do a formal update on it, but I did record my 1000 coin run in case you wanted to see it (link). Like you mentioned, GreenZSaber's commentated video was a must.]

 

I feel that with practice anything is possible, including Crypt of the Necrodancer. My biggest issue is time.

 

With decades of gaming experience, I don't think I'll ever play a genre that was more time consuming, more brain wrecking, more mentally depressing than MMOs. There was a time when I played World of Warcraft almost religiously, paying that $15 a month that I felt was worth it. Runescape as well. It's just sad that so many people anymore are just as glued to the screens as I was. Gaming in the 2000s was a lot more niche, but also, the technology was a lot more primitive then which meant that companies were able to take more risks for less money. Today, with the cancel culture running rampant, the Twitter mob of SJWs, and companies having succumbed to the crunch culture, there is far more at stake now. I learned about this with Fallout 76, The Last of Us Part II and Cyberpunk 2077.

 

I have no problem with waiting on a PS5. Looking back I sort of wish I waited for the Slim/Pro versions of the PS4 instead of buying the vanilla PS4, but it is what it is. Like its predecessor the PS3, the vanilla PS4 has its share of problems. The first and second model Slims on the PS3 were considerable improvements over the original FAT PS3, and the same holds true for the Pro/Slim PS4. The PS4 controller that came a few years after the initial PS4 is a vast improvement (OG PS4 controllers have a touchpad with no lines, the later model PS4 controllers have a light that runs across the top of the touchpad) with much longer battery life.

 

Nintendo has gained a good amount of stride after the disappointment that was the Wii U. It's not portable in the form of their actual handhelds, which Nintendo is tops in the industry due to their long success. The exclusives and indies are doing good.

 

Microsoft, in contrast, almost seems to have given up on their exclusives. Most anything you can play in their library you can play right on the PC, since the Xbox and the PC are basically fully integrated at this point. Phil Spencer's vision is something I don't really see eye to eye with.

 

I would like to see something come out of the AA industry. Sherlock Holmes: Chapter One has just released, which I don't know much about. The stuff we got back in the PS3 era with games like X-Men Origins: Wolverine, Enslaved: Odyssey to the West, Dante's Inferno and a couple Prince of Persia games would certainly be nice to revisit. The AAA industry seems too focused on blockbusters like God of War Ragnorak and Assassin's Creed Valhalla, both of which have a massive budget. I feel like the actual innovation is coming from the indies and AA games, not the big AAA games.

 

Woah Dave! was certainly challenging, as you need to be sort of aware with fairly quick reflexes. It takes quite a while to get the pattern down, but eventually with enough practice one can nab 1000 coins before they lose all their lives.

 

What can you tell me about Atari Flashback Classics Vol 2 & Vol 3, provided I pick them up at some point?

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Man, there were so many fantastic choices here... I ended up picking 4 ? 2 of which, Nuclear Throne & Spelunky 2, have been rotting away in my backlog. I would love an excuse to get back into them again. It would be fantastic to have others to commiserate with along the way!

 

I really like the idea of doing a trial run sorta dealio here, I think this will be fun ? Looking forward to the results. 

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Even though I dont see myself posting much, because I'm not much of a writer myself, I voted for Rally 2.0 because I want to see more people sharing their experience with "Flatout", The End is Nigh because this game needs more love and Verlet Swing, thanks for the game recommendation, this looks like it can be tough as nails.

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On 18/12/2021 at 3:12 AM, ExistentialSolid said:

I'm glad to have your support as always. :D I hope to see you there if I ever get this idea off the ground!

 

That's cool. I have a lot of games that I want to either finish off or go for soon as I have some that I should be able to do & other games that I would like to go for. The other events that I'm in are going to be fun although I want to use these events to go for more & more. I'm sure this one will be great.

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On 21/12/2021 at 7:15 AM, Copanele said:

Hah there's some fine options on your list there! I finally managed to vote too! went for DMC5, Catherine and Yakuza 3 :D 

 

Catherine and Yakuza 3! Those two games destroyed me. I honestly wonder if ExistentialSolid is up for the challenge ?

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21 hours ago, Copanele said:

Definitely doable, but how many painkillers will be involved in this I wonder 1f602.png

 

I am still reminded of the guy on these forums that was so proud of going through the games in order and got his Yakuza 0, 1, 2 platinums and then he came to Yakuza 3 broke him, to the extent where he was venting his anger and punched a hole in the wall to his apartment and then a few weeks later, his account here was deleted and all of his posts were gone.

 

Catherine also has such an amusing story, especially for someone about to approach their 30s like ExistentialSolid is, not to mention the brutal difficulty and rng stuff. I still remember going back to that game years later and just going for the endings, despite playing the game on secret Very Easy setting, I still died so much (For me Very Easy was Normal/Hard)

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