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If using a guide on hard mode for the bosses.....dont. Here's why.


Shua_J

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3 hours ago, BestUsername---- said:

Is no one gonna point out the irony where OP mentions not to use a guide when he kinda giving us a guide?

 

In all seriousness, I haven't started this game yet but it seems like there is a 50/50 split on Hard mode being hard or easy.

 

Im halfway through hard and the only big issues so far were 1st boss and hell House, that was stupidly hard. 

You can't waste magic on regular enemies, triple slash all the way. 

It's a big jump but once you get into the swing it's mostly OK so far

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8 hours ago, BestUsername---- said:

Is no one gonna point out the irony where OP mentions not to use a guide when he kinda giving us a guide?

 

In all seriousness, I haven't started this game yet but it seems like there is a 50/50 split on Hard mode being hard or easy.


See my response to "me is caveman". There's your answer.

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8 hours ago, Optinooby said:

 

Efficient platinum runs with comm, quite lot m8 yea, just a few of top of my head;

 

- RE0

- RE1

- RE2Re

- RE3Re

- RE5

- RE7

- Mortal Shell (5hrs)

- Demon Soul's (10hrs)

- TLOU2 (15+)

- Ratchet and Clank (8hrs)

- Control (7hrs, 100% trophies)

- Vampyr (7hrs)

 

Much more, too many to name m8, all over on my channel, plus a few written guides here. Next up after FF7 is a Abe Soulstorm platinum speedrun and a Horizon Zero Dawn (always aimed at beginners) ;)

 

 

Have you check some of my boss guides for FF7 by any chance, like the Airbuster or Crab Warden, be interesting to hear your input if you feel most guides don't explain them well enough or don't make them as easy as they could be!

 

Thanks m8 ;)


Sweet!!

I have not checked any of your guides...any of the guides I checked were after I went through the game (After every Plat I try and go back to the games threads and post something helpful...here among other places like Youtube. For instance I just Platted CoD Bo3 and dropped a post about how to cut down upgrading time and getting camos for all weapons in the campaign by 2/3rds with a great farming location) and the guides I was referencing were the video guides on Youtube in terms of FF7. There's often a ton of people in the Youtube comments that still need help when the people doing the guides were basically just "white knuckling" it in order to post vids first.

I'll check yours out for sure. Super cool.

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5 minutes ago, BestUsername---- said:

Lol I didn’t mean any disrespect and neither do I think the other person as well. Just a playful jest at best. 


Cool. I'm not trying to be perceived as undermining guide makers at all with all the different aspects they have to deal with...not just a segment of all hard boss fights. That's where I'm coming from....and I've been around the block enough times to understand that's exactly how stupid sh** on the internet starts.

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On 21.12.2020 at 0:40 AM, Shua_J said:

 WIth Aerith absorbing Fire and converting it to health...Ifrit will walk you to the finish line as his attacks completely refill your health.

what do I need to equip so Aerith can convert it into health? 

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  • 1 month later...

Completely agree with OP. I believe people find this game harder than it needs to be because of guides.

 

Trying to replicate boss battles of pros/speedrunners who spent tons of hours perfecting the runs. Just a small mistake and everything goes south.

 

Make your own build, learn materias. If you die a lot, focus on healing/revive builds. The game is very forgiving for different playstyles.

 

Take your time and find out what works the best for you. The fights might take a bit longer, but you'll come out victorious at the end. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

If not for the guides I wouldn't have been able to figure out half as much as I have... and I'm still shit. 

 

I think people need to understand how the materia works, especially things like elemental and warding etc, but also when bosses will trigger specific moves.

 

Last night I reached Bahamut on the combat room for the first time since trying. Had to use a load out which caters for max health and MP as I just cannot replicate the speed glass canon guides. Was doing okay-ish with Bahumut and got his health down to a quarter of his health, but his barrage of attacks as well as having Ifrit just meant I was getting spammed left, right and center and then he used mega flare. Tried to have another attempt now but got wrecked by Shiva in about 5 moves. 

 

If the fights were individual it wouldn't be so bad I think, but having to go through them all time and time again is what really wrecks your confidence. And yes, I am one of those that rate this game around 8/10 for difficulty. Hard mode has been a real bad experience for me. 

 

I'm starting to miss the original game where you could have 8 nateria on body and 6 on armour lol

Edited by DaveMcDamage
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Thanks to a guide i got the trophy but the strategy was full attack everything and i complete the fight in under 5 minutes...

 

Honestly i don't remember the strategy but i didn't have any Healing or Revive builds for sure just Attack, you can play this fight whatever you want.

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4 hours ago, s68sc said:

Thanks to a guide i got the trophy but the strategy was full attack everything and i complete the fight in under 5 minutes...

 

Honestly i don't remember the strategy but i didn't have any Healing or Revive builds for sure just Attack, you can play this fight whatever you want.

Theres only two ways you can be successful with the fight. The Shin method which sounds like the build you used, and then the build for max HP/MP but will take around 40-60 minutes to do. I made it to Bahamut once using the  high hp/mp method, but only once. Using Shin's guide was never ever going to work for me because the game is just too damn hard and using his method I only made it past Shiva once out of a further 13 attempts. Every spell I cast at her right from the start she zooms away and that is happening all the time. Take 3-4 hits from her and its game over.

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5 hours ago, DaveMcDamage said:

Theres only two ways you can be successful with the fight. The Shin method which sounds like the build you used, and then the build for max HP/MP but will take around 40-60 minutes to do. I made it to Bahamut once using the  high hp/mp method, but only once. Using Shin's guide was never ever going to work for me because the game is just too damn hard and using his method I only made it past Shiva once out of a further 13 attempts. Every spell I cast at her right from the start she zooms away and that is happening all the time. Take 3-4 hits from her and its game over.

 

There are far more ways to be successful. I didn't use either of the two you described. 

 

Personally, I used Barret with Elemental + Ice on the Armor and controlled him exclusively for the first three fights. Shiva is a joke this way (use Manawall on your other teammates when she does her Ult), Fat Chocobo is pretty much a no-damage fight if you kill the Tomberrys ASAP and Leviathan is pretty easy as well if you can avoid the tornados. Switch to Aerith from time to time and you are good. You basically don't use any MP at all during these fights, maybe some healing here and there, but that's it. 

 

For Bahamuth, I kept switching bewteen characters for the initial phase to break his AI. As soon as Ifrit spawns... I switched to Cloud with Fire + Elemental on his Armor and used him exclusively, just making sure he stays alive. Ifrit will heal you, so you can focus on damaging Bahamuth. With this setup, the final fight is also pretty easy as long as you free Cloud from the Grab attack. 

 

Took maybe 20 minutes this way, but I never came close to dying. 

 

 

The thing about using a guide is that they are pretty damn difficult to replicate. If you just play yourself, you'll find your own way of approaching combat that works for you. And fights like this one won't be that big of a deal as a consequence. 

Edited by Arcesius
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13 hours ago, Arcesius said:

 

There are far more ways to be successful. I didn't use either of the two you described. 

 

Personally, I used Barret with Elemental + Ice on the Armor and controlled him exclusively for the first three fights. Shiva is a joke this way (use Manawall on your other teammates when she does her Ult), Fat Chocobo is pretty much a no-damage fight if you kill the Tomberrys ASAP and Leviathan is pretty easy as well if you can avoid the tornados. Switch to Aerith from time to time and you are good. You basically don't use any MP at all during these fights, maybe some healing here and there, but that's it. 

 

For Bahamuth, I kept switching bewteen characters for the initial phase to break his AI. As soon as Ifrit spawns... I switched to Cloud with Fire + Elemental on his Armor and used him exclusively, just making sure he stays alive. Ifrit will heal you, so you can focus on damaging Bahamuth. With this setup, the final fight is also pretty easy as long as you free Cloud from the Grab attack. 

 

Took maybe 20 minutes this way, but I never came close to dying. 

 

 

The thing about using a guide is that they are pretty damn difficult to replicate. If you just play yourself, you'll find your own way of approaching combat that works for you. And fights like this one won't be that big of a deal as a consequence. 

So you basically used the slow method. Which is what I said. 

 

I too can beat Shiva now no problem, Fat bastard chocobo is a new difficulty especially when trying to save MP. Leviathan I'm still 50/50 on, sometimes I can beat him slowly but without wasting too much MP, but then it all goes to shit with Ifrit. The reason being no matter if you have elemental with fire or not, at some point your teams will be wrecked by Bahamut, even trying to lure Ifrit away will still bring Bahamut to you has the other 2 always die quickly. Then when you're left alone with your fire elemental armour, try raising the KO'd team, mates as Ifrit and Bahamut attack you and then Bahamut cast mega flare. Not a chance. 

 

Here's the thing with the two methods. With Shin's method this is the method in which the gamer destroys the fights with pure skill, this is why I cannot even come close to achieving such a feat as its beyond my gaming capabilities. 

 

The second method is 100% luck based. Yeah you can add extra HP/MP, but you're playing on borrowed time with each attack and if you managed to survive its because you got extremely lucky and not through skill. Its just spamming attacks and then hoping you don't get wrecked. I had to stick to this method for reasons given in the first method. 

 

@Arcesius

 

Thought I would give you the benefit of the doubt and try the Barret method. Even set a timer. 

 

So fitted out Barret &Co with all the essentials. It was 16 minutes later when in all fairness I hadn't lost much health among the team, but I had even removed a slither of Shiva's health due to her regen. So I think you forgot to add an hour onto that 20 minutes or so timer you said you did it in. What exactly was your materia setup and equipment used like?

 

The materia and equipment setup is more essential to the actual tactics, yet most people just say "Oh I just equipped ice with elemental and did it".

Edited by DaveMcDamage
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  • 8 months later...
On 12/20/2020 at 3:40 PM, Shua_J said:

Just a warning for a lot of guide users for bosses on hard mode. I just finished the Prototype fight in the simulator on chapter 17 and it was really very easy when everything was in place. I looked at the guides afterwards out of curiosity and most of them don't make any sense at all. Don't follow a guide. Figure out what the materia does on its own. Here's a great example as to why...and also a fight that a lot of you are going to be very interested in winning.

This fight was Shiva, Fat Chocabo, Leviathan, Bahamut and Ifrit and then the Prototype. 5 straight rounds.

First, dont use heal with a magnifier that heals all members. It doesn't make any sense. The magnifier is way better used with barrier. Specifically ManaWall...and you don't have to use it that much. Just make sure the party has 2 full heals equipped. Chakra is way better if you have a block materia that converts to ATB. 

My configuration was to have Cloud completely resistant to Ice attack and to have Aerith completely absorb Fire attacks. With cloud, you will take no damage at all from Shiva and it doesn't matter if your other 2 die. No magic used. 2nd fight is Fat Chocabo. The only thing you have to watch out for is the little weak Tonberrys. Other than that...the little ball guys spit fire and completely refill Aeriths health. No magic used. 3rd fight is Leviathan. Center on using Aerith...and especially her heavy chargeable attack. Block often. Use her heal limit break. No magic used.

 

4th Fight is where the guides REALLY get everything wrong. The first thing they all said was to make sure when Bahamut summons Ifrit...kill Ifrit as fast as you can. Now why would you want to kill your best employee? WIth Aerith absorbing Fire and converting it to health...Ifrit will walk you to the finish line as his attacks completely refill your health. The only thing you need is some distance from Bahamut and make sure Aerith has Arise. Kill Bahamut first by unloading on him with all of your characters during his countdowns and when he's aggro'd to someone else. Clouds triple and Tifa's Star attack will help widdle him down...but Aerith is your heavy attacker here. Use a ray when Bahamut is counting down and hit with C and T. After Bahamut summons Ifrit...you're in the clear. Even if Bahamut gets his big attack off...as long as Aerith has Manawall active and her health is above 3500....you're golden because your good buddy Ifrit is filling your health constantly. Then Ifrit is left and you can just leave your character choice on Aerith...take a couple of victory laps...dance a jig...and finish him at your leisure...because he cant do a thing about it. 

Just stay to the Prototypes back...and you're good. Cast a barrier on everybody and be like TLOU2 and take him from behind. Done deal.

A lot of the other guides on the bosses are atrocious too. Just spend time finding out what all of your Materia actually does. Use asses..farm a little...but not too much and level the things that matter and level some things you never use and find out what they really do. There are some real gems in the Materia selection that seem very benign at first glance.

 

On 3/20/2021 at 5:22 AM, Shua_J said:


This isn't a guide. This is a suggestion as to why not to follow a guide rigidly. If I was going to write a guide...I would have wrote a guide properly. Now...more people are jumping in and telling the way they were creative in doing it....and if you bothered to read the thread...their input supports exactly the title of the post. I'm pretty sure you thought that sounded awesome in your head though.

 

THANK YOU!!! Because of this... "non guide"... I finally beat Bahamut and then got the trophy for beating the Prototype (although, admittedly, I did almost die during that fight which would have really pissed me off). I almost beat Bahamut my first attempt with this guide, but I didn't notice the countdown hit one and then he nuked me before I could cast a group barrier. Only trophy I have left for plat is to finish chapters 17 and 18 on hard now! :yay:

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  • 3 weeks later...

Is it best to attempt this challenge before or after beating the game on hard?

On 20/12/2020 at 11:40 PM, Shua_J said:

Just a warning for a lot of guide users for bosses on hard mode. I just finished the Prototype fight in the simulator on chapter 17 and it was really very easy when everything was in place. I looked at the guides afterwards out of curiosity and most of them don't make any sense at all. Don't follow a guide. Figure out what the materia does on its own. Here's a great example as to why...and also a fight that a lot of you are going to be very interested in winning.

This fight was Shiva, Fat Chocabo, Leviathan, Bahamut and Ifrit and then the Prototype. 5 straight rounds.

First, dont use heal with a magnifier that heals all members. It doesn't make any sense. The magnifier is way better used with barrier. Specifically ManaWall...and you don't have to use it that much. Just make sure the party has 2 full heals equipped. Chakra is way better if you have a block materia that converts to ATB. 

My configuration was to have Cloud completely resistant to Ice attack and to have Aerith completely absorb Fire attacks. With cloud, you will take no damage at all from Shiva and it doesn't matter if your other 2 die. No magic used. 2nd fight is Fat Chocabo. The only thing you have to watch out for is the little weak Tonberrys. Other than that...the little ball guys spit fire and completely refill Aeriths health. No magic used. 3rd fight is Leviathan. Center on using Aerith...and especially her heavy chargeable attack. Block often. Use her heal limit break. No magic used.

 

4th Fight is where the guides REALLY get everything wrong. The first thing they all said was to make sure when Bahamut summons Ifrit...kill Ifrit as fast as you can. Now why would you want to kill your best employee? WIth Aerith absorbing Fire and converting it to health...Ifrit will walk you to the finish line as his attacks completely refill your health. The only thing you need is some distance from Bahamut and make sure Aerith has Arise. Kill Bahamut first by unloading on him with all of your characters during his countdowns and when he's aggro'd to someone else. Clouds triple and Tifa's Star attack will help widdle him down...but Aerith is your heavy attacker here. Use a ray when Bahamut is counting down and hit with C and T. After Bahamut summons Ifrit...you're in the clear. Even if Bahamut gets his big attack off...as long as Aerith has Manawall active and her health is above 3500....you're golden because your good buddy Ifrit is filling your health constantly. Then Ifrit is left and you can just leave your character choice on Aerith...take a couple of victory laps...dance a jig...and finish him at your leisure...because he cant do a thing about it. 

Just stay to the Prototypes back...and you're good. Cast a barrier on everybody and be like TLOU2 and take him from behind. Done deal.

A lot of the other guides on the bosses are atrocious too. Just spend time finding out what all of your Materia actually does. Use asses..farm a little...but not too much and level the things that matter and level some things you never use and find out what they really do. There are some real gems in the Materia selection that seem very benign at first glance.

Can't you show us the configuration?

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  • 1 month later...

I didn't use any boss guides. You inspect every boss and played on normal so that knowledge should come to play in a replay on hard. So t I do agree with the OP, I imagine many written guides out there are by people who may even brute-forced normal mode without doing the fight optimally.

 

Hard mode to me was basically ensuring you pick the right materia for every boss fight. if you enter with the wrong set, you're going to fail or take a long time to clear. Versus something optimal where you don't have to live on a prayer. So you come up with your own strats, like the simulator fight where one fight ifrit comes out as an add, but if you built fire resistance on someone like Cloud he's simply healing you while you go ham on the boss. Simple things like that, despite having some minimum materia setup, you can setup your own play style which makes the game great.

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  • 2 months later...

this is 100% factual, I remember when I went through this and I was trying to follow some guides, nothing worked for me, but when I started to play around with some strategies, I quickly found a way to win the fights in just a few tries, it's way more fun that way too

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  • 2 months later...

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