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RPG Mania 2021 - Congrats AlterArchuria! (Completed)


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I'd like to tag along. After a quick browse through my profile I see quite a bunch of RPGs coming (Tales of Zestiria, Warsaw, Swords of Ditto, Valkyria Chronicles 4, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Ys 9 probably), I should at least get something on the board :P Winning won't be possible, but why not check where I end up.

 

I'll plan out my x2 and x3 on Sunday, if I get around to it even earlier.

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8 hours ago, Lord_Bane999 said:

"Call Out Bonus: A competitor will choose a played or unplayed game from your backlog to complete. This will be another times 3 opportunity.  

he call out bonus will be assigned by bracket after the 2.0 begins. The two people competing can use each others profile backlog, or trophy checklist if one is available.  Completing the game gets a times three bonus added to the game."

 

Idk this makes it seem like a competition. Otherwise how else would you stop another player from claiming the free bonus you give them? It would essentially make a callout have zero reason for use if the challengee player gets a free bonus for completing the game with really no gain by the challenger.

 

While technically your not wrong there, it might be how it was implemented or lack there of maybe which made it basically a free multiplier even if you did it before the other person who you were matched up since they would get it too which didn't make too much sense since it doesn't state they don't get it if you do it before them. In a nutshell it was basically a 2nd 3x game which someone chose for you which could easily work in your favor if you played your cards right.

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I'm pretty sure about my multipliers, so before I forget about announcing them:

 

Triple points: Tales of Zestiria

Double points: Ys: Memories of Celceta and Warsaw

 

I don't know if those will be my best choices in terms of math, but those are games I 100% intend to complete.

And just one quick question. Would you prefer if we post a list of already started, but still open RPGs on the 1st of February or would you prefer checking that yourself? I've been slooowly chipping away at some RPGs in the last few weeks, so I have no idea yet where they'll stand two weeks from now.

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As of right now, I should have all the initial players placed on the OP.

Over the day I will have a spreadsheet up and running (hopefully) and added to the OP with all the Double and triple games.

 

There has been a lot of talk about rules possibly being amended. There will be some rules and scoring amended, I am in the process of adding and changing the scoring to reflect the difficulty and length of games and will post this for a consensus from those competing.

 

On 11/01/2021 at 7:55 PM, cckerberos said:

Taking into account length would be nice, although hard to do objectively. My thought (which I haven't really looked into in practice) would be to use the time from a trophy guide (or the "Main + Extra" time listed on https://howlongtobeat.com/ if there's no guide) and award points in 40 hour increments past the first 40 hours. So a game that was 41-79 hours would be +50 points, 80-119 would be +100 points, etc., for example. This would also reduce the big impact DLC has on scores.

 

For the speed bonus, I'd recommend using a flat percentage rather than finishing in the top 25 as this really penalizes those playing games that have been around a while and have been popular. Finishing in the top 25 in Skyrim, for example, means being in the top .07% of times. By comparison, there are lots of less popular games where it's kind of trivial to be in the top 25.

 

The list of Let's Play games is really arbitrary. If there's going to be a bonus to promote those games, I don't think it should be a x2 multiplier (and it definitely shouldn't stack with other multipliers). +50 seems good enough, to be honest.

 

I like the idea of trying to increase modifiers for the length of time completing a game would take, but yes it ranges from RPG to RPG and from site to site as to what the ideal completion times would be. My replacement idea is to create a list of 'Most Wanted' RPG's and offer a substantial bonus for completing a game from that list. The list maybe a little arbitrary, but everyone knows some games that are just infamous for difficulty or length of time to complete them to get that sweet Platinum. Any ideas on games to put on the list, or if the list is a good alternative, let me know.

 

I will change the speed bonus to a flat percentage of within the top 10%. If there are less than 200 completions of the game in question, the top 25 rule stands in its stead.

 

I am scrapping the Let's Play games bonus and focusing on the Beast Mode option instead. Most of the Let's Play games are all part of a series anyway, so easier to put them all together into one umbrella. Completing multiple games in the series will afford bonuses of increments to reflect how many completions have been done by one competitor. These changes will be reflected in the scoring tab on the OP soon.

 

On 12/01/2021 at 7:37 AM, Lord_Bane999 said:

Couple questions.

 

First is a new release title coming this year allowed for a triple or double point game?

 

Second I noticed that in series samples you had mentioned Warriors (One Piece specifically) and Yakuza series, my question is how far do we take the RPG genre label? If certain games from those series are included would other action-adventure games with skills that can be leveled be included then by proxy?

 

I have a huge backlog of RPGs I'm planning to play this year but wanna just confirm what may make some RPG-Lite titles as an entry.

 

Personally I would allow a game that is coming out in the near future and is definitely coming out this year. If it's not coming out until 6 months down the line, there is no guarantee that the game would be played to get the points for it. What game did you have in mind?

 

There are sometimes spin offs which are not RPG in many or any ways (see the Neptunia series). If the game has RPG elements and can be shown to have a levelling or upgrade system, then it can be considered for use in this competition (see Bioshock).

 

On 14/01/2021 at 6:04 AM, Lord_Bane999 said:

"Call Out Bonus: A competitor will choose a played or unplayed game from your backlog to complete. This will be another times 3 opportunity.  

he call out bonus will be assigned by bracket after the 2.0 begins. The two people competing can use each others profile backlog, or trophy checklist if one is available.  Completing the game gets a times three bonus added to the game."

 

Idk this makes it seem like a competition. Otherwise how else would you stop another player from claiming the free bonus you give them? It would essentially make a callout have zero reason for use if the challengee player gets a free bonus for completing the game with really no gain by the challenger.

 

The Call Out Bonus is something which any player can ask of another player from games that appear on their backlog. There is no competition between themselves, but rather it's a challenge to complete the game within the time frame of the competition. The challenge could be for fun or to try and push them to finish something in their backlog or just to see if that super hard or time consuming RPG will take up all of their time. The point is that you don't have to challenge anyone and you don't have to take up the challenge, but the option is there to make it more interesting for the competition.

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15 hours ago, Psy-Tychist said:

Snip

Cool thanks for answer and yeah I'm looking at a couple game but if I chose a new one I was thinking of one releasing next month. Persona Strikers if it's classified as an RPG still?? (I know it's made by Omega Force so I'm assuming it's a beat'em up actually) if not then I'll probably take Werewolf

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On 15/01/2021 at 0:59 PM, Jens said:

I don't know if those will be my best choices in terms of math, but those are games I 100% intend to complete.

And just one quick question. Would you prefer if we post a list of already started, but still open RPGs on the 1st of February or would you prefer checking that yourself? I've been slooowly chipping away at some RPGs in the last few weeks, so I have no idea yet where they'll stand two weeks from now.

 

No need to post what RPG's are on your profile, but I will check the maths and make sure the scoring is on point.

 

I have updated the scoring and hopefully will have an up to date spreadsheet for everyone to see and will be updated every fortnight, unless I'm not busy and update sooner than that. In any case, I hope to have the spreadsheet up ready for the start of the event.

 

Any games that everyone thinks would be good to go on the Most Wanted list?

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25 minutes ago, Psy-Tychist said:

 

No need to post what RPG's are on your profile, but I will check the maths and make sure the scoring is on point.

 

I have updated the scoring and hopefully will have an up to date spreadsheet for everyone to see and will be updated every fortnight, unless I'm not busy and update sooner than that. In any case, I hope to have the spreadsheet up ready for the start of the event.

 

Any games that everyone thinks would be good to go on the Most Wanted list?

 

Now i gotta ask since i see it there but it doesn't say anything, how is kemco going to go? We just going to count only the Asdivine series or somehow all of them under a "series" banner? cause that might not end well if its the latter.

 

As for the Most Wanted List a few games come to mind:

  • The Guided Fate Paradox
  •  Cross Edge (aka X Edge)
  • The Elder Scrolls Online

  • Crypt of the NecroDancer

  • Class of Heroes 2G

  • Touhou Genso Wanderer

  • The Caligula Effect

  • Shiren The Wanderer

  • The Lost Child

  • Summon Night 6: Lost Borders

 

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3 hours ago, Psy-Tychist said:

 

No need to post what RPG's are on your profile, but I will check the maths and make sure the scoring is on point.

 

I have updated the scoring and hopefully will have an up to date spreadsheet for everyone to see and will be updated every fortnight, unless I'm not busy and update sooner than that. In any case, I hope to have the spreadsheet up ready for the start of the event.

 

Any games that everyone thinks would be good to go on the Most Wanted list?

I second

Elder Scrolls Online

Crypt of the Necromancer

Cross Edge

 

Btw too to stop scores from being way to high I think a hard rule should be introduced that a Double Point or Triple Point game can't be any title included as a Most Wanted. So that way there is only one multiplier.

 

Also I seen someone mentioned Kemco I feel having two series lists would be appropriate due to the number of games. My suggestion is one will be for the As Divine Series and a second series list will encompass any of the rest. I only suggest this because not all players may not own all the As Divine games but may own several of the one off games.

 

Edit: Elite Dangerous I think should be added to the Most Wanted as well

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I definitely feel that Kemco games shouldn't count as a series, barring the Asdivine games. Correct me if I'm wrong but Kemco is, most of the time, a publisher for those games. Like the Asdivine series for example is developed by Exe Create. Just because Kemco publishes them doesn't mean all their games belong in a series. Baring Asdivine and maybe a few others, most of Kemco's games really don't belong in a series with each other.

 

And here are some suggestions for the Most Wanted List that hasn't already been said:

 

Most of the Disgaea series

Record of Agarest War 1

Record of Agarest War Zero

Tales of Symphonia

Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of a New World

Tears to Tiara II: Heir of the Overlord

 

Edited by Warpedsavior
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3 hours ago, Warpedsavior said:

Most of the Disgaea series

Record of Agarest War 1

Record of Agarest War Zero

Tales of Symphonia

Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of a New World

Tears to Tiara II: Heir of the Overlord

 

Disgaea 4

Record of Agarest War Zero

Tales of Symphonia

 

I feel myself those are the only ones worth as a most wanted as they all have longer complete times (150hr+) but also are considered more difficult. 

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9 hours ago, AlterArchuria said:

 

Now i gotta ask since i see it there but it doesn't say anything, how is kemco going to go? We just going to count only the Asdivine series or somehow all of them under a "series" banner? cause that might not end well if its the latter.

 

 

6 hours ago, Warpedsavior said:

I definitely feel that Kemco games shouldn't count as a series, barring the Asdivine games. Correct me if I'm wrong but Kemco is, most of the time, a publisher for those games. Like the Asdivine series for example is developed by Exe Create. Just because Kemco publishes them doesn't mean all their games belong in a series. Baring Asdivine and maybe a few others, most of Kemco's games really don't belong in a series with each other.

 

 

I wouldn't even go that far with the Kemco stuff.  I'd consider the Asdivine games their own series, but I wouldn't lump the rest of them together in a group.  Take it from somebody who played through a bunch of Kemco titles for RPG 2020 because I had physical copies in my pile:  They're very quick games to get through, given many of them were ports from Mobile releases.  Even with the relatively large "penalty" for their platinum rarity, you're looking at a few days to get through an entire game; in a competition like this, that's plenty of an advantage without adding "Beast Mode" bonuses on top of that.

 

As for "most wanted"?  I only skimmed the above handful of posts, but I don't recall seeing the Mugen Souls games in there.  The first definitely deserves a bonus if somebody is going to fight through to the platinum, the second is a more iffy issue because the second title streamlined a lot of stuff and reduced a huge amount of the grind.  Star Ocean: The Last Hope International also ought to get a bonus if anybody is crazy enough to do that one.

 

And don't get me started on Touhou Gensou Wanderer.  I'm playing Reloaded now, trying to squeeze in one last score for RPG 2020 and that's plenty grindy on its own.  From what I read, the original was a lot worse than this one, so the mere thought of how bad that would be gives me nightmares.

 

....

 

Final thought:  my bonus games for RPG 2021.

 

Triple Points:  Fell Seal

Double Points:  the Nocturne remake (when it comes out)

Douible Points:  Banner Saga 2

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2 hours ago, acasser said:

 

 

I wouldn't even go that far with the Kemco stuff.  I'd consider the Asdivine games their own series, but I wouldn't lump the rest of them together in a group.  Take it from somebody who played through a bunch of Kemco titles for RPG 2020 because I had physical copies in my pile:  They're very quick games to get through, given many of them were ports from Mobile releases.  Even with the relatively large "penalty" for their platinum rarity, you're looking at a few days to get through an entire game; in a competition like this, that's plenty of an advantage without adding "Beast Mode" bonuses on top of that.

 

As for "most wanted"?  I only skimmed the above handful of posts, but I don't recall seeing the Mugen Souls games in there.  The first definitely deserves a bonus if somebody is going to fight through to the platinum, the second is a more iffy issue because the second title streamlined a lot of stuff and reduced a huge amount of the grind.  Star Ocean: The Last Hope International also ought to get a bonus if anybody is crazy enough to do that one.

 

There were a few games added to the wanted list already on the first page that why mugen and SO4 weren't mentioned. I can tell you having done Mugen Souls Z that it doesn't even come close to the first on any level or even that of something like SAO: RE hollow since its pretty easy besides maybe 1 or 2 parts.

 

Quote

Most Wanted:

Star Ocean: The Last Hope

Star Ocean: Til the End of Time

Mugen Souls

Sword Art Online: RE Hollow Fragment

2 hours ago, acasser said:

And don't get me started on Touhou Gensou Wanderer.  I'm playing Reloaded now, trying to squeeze in one last score for RPG 2020 and that's plenty grindy on its own.  From what I read, the original was a lot worse than this one, so the mere thought of how bad that would be gives me nightmares.

 

Yep its why i mention the regular Wanderer since that one is a nightmare in comparison to reloaded and not to mention the lack of info out there for it too. We just gotta make sure we don't have a big list for most wanted and maybe the top 10 - 15 most crazy RPGs out there :P

 

A little clarification for series stacker @Psy-Tychist but does the bonus points double or did the example just miss the 75 point by chance ?

Edited by AlterArchuria
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Won't lie after staking SAO Re (Vita, PS4) I don't see why its a x5 game. when games that take 50-70 hours less are x1 but each to their own.
But I agree members who have these most wanted games as their bonus or triple will just gain so many points that people trying to catch up will end up spending more time then that 1 x5 point game.

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22 hours ago, CaptainMonkster said:

With the current lock down i have a lot of time to play games atm so sign me up if you please! :)

 

Added :)

 

20 hours ago, Warpedsavior said:

I definitely feel that Kemco games shouldn't count as a series, barring the Asdivine games. Correct me if I'm wrong but Kemco is, most of the time, a publisher for those games. Like the Asdivine series for example is developed by Exe Create. Just because Kemco publishes them doesn't mean all their games belong in a series. Baring Asdivine and maybe a few others, most of Kemco's games really don't belong in a series with each other.

 

And here are some suggestions for the Most Wanted List that hasn't already been said:

 

Most of the Disgaea series

Record of Agarest War 1

Record of Agarest War Zero

Tales of Symphonia

Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of a New World

Tears to Tiara II: Heir of the Overlord

 

Kemco does have a lot of individual games and that was why I thought that they could be lumped together as a big series. Then again, if there are series within the Kemco brand then it only makes sense to use those that actually have a series based on the name rather than Publisher.

 

Any particular Disgaea's which would be more notable. I like the idea of Record of Agarest War, I've always wanted to play it but the version in the EU doesn't have trophies.

 

12 hours ago, AlterArchuria said:

A little clarification for series stacker @Psy-Tychist but does the bonus points double or did the example just miss the 75 point by chance 1f914.png

 

The bonus points double the more games played in that series that do count as an RPG.

 

4 hours ago, fisty123 said:

Won't lie after staking SAO Re (Vita, PS4) I don't see why its a x5 game. when games that take 50-70 hours less are x1 but each to their own.
But I agree members who have these most wanted games as their bonus or triple will just gain so many points that people trying to catch up will end up spending more time then that 1 x5 point game.

 

What doesn't make SAO Hollow Fragment enough of a title to be warranted as Most Wanted? What other options would you suggest instead?

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7 hours ago, Psy-Tychist said:

What doesn't make SAO Hollow Fragment enough of a title to be warranted as Most Wanted? What other options would you suggest instead?

Because if you had a previous save from the Vita version you can knock off a lot of time as your money, level and other things carried over.

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13 hours ago, fisty123 said:

Won't lie after staking SAO Re (Vita, PS4) I don't see why its a x5 game. when games that take 50-70 hours less are x1 but each to their own.
But I agree members who have these most wanted games as their bonus or triple will just gain so many points that people trying to catch up will end up spending more time then that 1 x5 point game.

 

How about a rules addendum to address this:  You may not combine a Most Wanted bonus with any other multiplicative bonus.  You can combine it with a speed-run bonus, you can combine it with a Beast Mode bonus (where applicable), but you cannot combine it with a "Let's Play" bonus (unless we took those out and I simply forgot) or a Double/Triple Points game.

 

I made a healthy number of points in RPG Mania 2020 by combining bonuses.  My Triple Points game was also a Let's Play, my Call-Out Challenge happened to be a Double Points game (with multiple DLCs), so that provided a huge boost to my score.  That was part of how I took advantage of the scoring rules as they existed, by looking for ways to piggy-back bonuses.  But if certain possibilities (or loopholes) would tilt the competition too far into "unfair" territory, that's something we can address before we get started and close off.

 

And by making these suggestions and potential rules changes now, players who were planning to walk this path have time to adjust what they were going to do to conform with the revisions.

Edited by acasser
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On 1/20/2021 at 8:48 PM, acasser said:

As for "most wanted"?  I only skimmed the above handful of posts, but I don't recall seeing the Mugen Souls games in there.  The first definitely deserves a bonus if somebody is going to fight through to the platinum, the second is a more iffy issue because the second title streamlined a lot of stuff and reduced a huge amount of the grind.  Star Ocean: The Last Hope International also ought to get a bonus if anybody is crazy enough to do that one.

 

And don't get me started on Touhou Gensou Wanderer.  I'm playing Reloaded now, trying to squeeze in one last score for RPG 2020 and that's plenty grindy on its own.  From what I read, the original was a lot worse than this one, so the mere thought of how bad that would be gives me nightmares.

I'm crazy enough to do Star Ocean: The Last Hope lol, in fact, I'm hoping to complete the entire Star Ocean series this year.

Having played the original Gensou Wanderer, it's pretty tough, though not the most difficult mystery dungeon roguelike out there on PSN. I'd imagine Reloaded is a bit easier, haven't gotten around to it yet.

10 hours ago, Psy-Tychist said:

Any particular Disgaea's which would be more notable. I like the idea of Record of Agarest War, I've always wanted to play it but the version in the EU doesn't have trophies.

 

What doesn't make SAO Hollow Fragment enough of a title to be warranted as Most Wanted? What other options would you suggest instead?

I guess any version of Disgaea 4, others who played other Disgaea games can chime in if the others are worth putting on the list, though possibly Disgaea 4 would be the only one from Disgaea? Maybe swap out Re: Hollow Fragment on the Most Wanted List with it's Vita counterpart? As @fisty123 said, a lot of time can be saved by using a save from a previous Vita save.

On 1/11/2021 at 7:07 AM, Psy-Tychist said:

 

Most Wanted:

Star Ocean: The Last Hope

Star Ocean: Til the End of Time

Mugen Souls

Sword Art Online: RE Hollow Fragment

Touhou Genso Wanderer

Sorcery Saga: Curse of the Great Curry God

Elite Dangerous

 

Ok, my personal opinion is that Sorcery Saga shouldn't be on the Most Wanted List at all. It's rather easy for a mystery dungeon game. Shiren the Wanderer: The Tower of Fortune and the Dice of Fate should be there instead. Instead of games being infamous among RPG trophy hunters, maybe it would be better to have more clear conditions? Like for example, games on the Most Wanted List should have a minimum time to platinum and/or a minimum platinum difficulty? I feel like it would help decide which games to put on it. Or maybe instead of having a Most Wanted List, just have a time multiplier incorporated into the score?

 

It doesn't matter to me if there's a rule on whether or not the Most Wanted List bonus can or can not be combined with other bonuses. If there's a rule added that says it can't, then I'll simply have to change what my double and triple point games are.

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40 minutes ago, Warpedsavior said:

Or maybe instead of having a Most Wanted List, just have a time multiplier incorporated into the score?

 

 

I honestly think this would be the better option, it's tough to come up with a definitive list of Most Wanted games that everyone can agree on and that doesn't feel arbitrary. 

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I personally feel any game on the most wanted list needs to either be at least 8-10/10 on difficulty or be beyond 200+ hrs for completion.

 

Basically it either needs to be very hard to complete or such a time sink it deserves the larger multiplier it gives. The reasoning behind this is basically a player would potentially spend more time on the game trying to complete it and would have to possibly pass on other games just to complete this most wanted one.

 

Btw on Disgaea the series is considered very hard in more it's 100% completion and optional/secret content. Most of the trophy lists are fairly easy except for 4 which does require alot more. (5 I've never played myself, though I've heard it's quite easier.)

 

Also I noticed the mention on save transfers. I think games even with this system if generally are very hard should be allowed on the most wanted still. But to make things fair introduce a honor system. Basically if you use a save transfer that gives you a benefit in the game  you mention this on completion. Then 50 points for example are removed from the sub-total of said game before calculating multipliers and bonuses. Just a thought.

 

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