Hard to The Core missive

[DrBloodmoney]

 

Well, I managed to get this trophy last night, after numerous setbacks and failures, and while I am glad to have gotten it....

....I really think the trophy is a bit of a stain on an otherwise excellent game.

 

I'll start by saying - I really do love Little Nightmares. ?

The art design is fucking beautiful (or beautifully ugly I suppose!)

The sound design is fantastic, and the tone is wonderfully creepy and sinister, without ever veering into cliché or out-and-out gore.

 

I particularly love the sense of fear and panic that are instilled by the slightly peculiar control scheme, and 'loosey-goosey' nature of the protagonist's movement.

In some games this would be a hinderance, but in the case of Little Nightmares, I think it both increases the tension, and makes the act of exploring the world and the puzzles more interesting, as you can never be quite sure what jumps are possible, which ledges you might just be able to reach etc.

 

This, coupled with the slightly unpredictable nature of the AI reactions of the enemies makes a shortish game very interesting, and quite repayable.

 

However...

....in the case of this particular trophy (requiring a speed run of the game in under an hour, with no deaths,) almost all of these factors that otherwise make the game great, instantly become frustrating and irksome.

 

I have no issue with speedrun trophies, or 'No-Death' ones, really - in short games like Little Nightmares I think they are well suited to the genre, and even combination 'No Deaths and Speed' type trophies can be great - I'm thinking of Limbo for example - but I really think that only works if the game is one of very precise and tight controls, with predictable AI that can be learned.

 

Here, that is not so.

 

I think either one would be fine in this game.

If there were two trophies - one for 'No Deaths', and another for speed, I think that would go a long way to solving my complains.

 

Little Nightmares is comprised of 5 main levels, each shorter than the last for the most part - and the majority of interaction with unpredictable enemies comes on Chapters 3 and 4.

 

I ended up losing count of how many times I made it half way through the game, only to have an enemy in Chapter 3 or 4 seem to see me from a spot I was perfectly safe in 10 times before, or lean a different way than they normally do, or do a little random sneezing animation, slowing them down so my planned route no longer worked.

Those are great things for the game generally, but soul-destroying for a speedrun / no-deaths run.

It's tough enough when you know it's all your own fault - like in Limbo, but where you feel it is partly due to random game factors, it is really crushing.

 

One little slip, and that's me back to running through levels 1 and 2 again, which I suspect I could now play through blindfolded!?

 

In the end, I am a little ashamed to admit, I did what I never really like to do in these type of trophy attempts - cloud backup a save before unpredictable encounters, and save-scum reload to get through. 

(I know, I know. Get out your 'Shame' bells and get a-ringing ?)

 

The effect of doing so, is that I just ended up getting frustrated and annoyed, staring at loading screens more often than playing.

By the time I actually made it through to the (relatively easy) final boss stage, and knew the run was good, I was more annoyed at the game than anything else.

 

For a game I had enjoyed immensely until this trophy, that is a real bummer. ?

 

 

 

On the plus side though - immediately after popping that trophy, I moved on to the DLC - back to playing the game as it is meant to be played, and within 2 minutes, that annoyance had melted away, and I remembered how fantastic the game is when you are not trying for that one bleeding trophy! ☺️☺️

 

So, clearly, it's just that one Hard to the Core trophy that is the issue.

 

I know I should have done what is really the appropriate thing - ignored that trophy and moved on - accept defeat - but there is so much to love in this game, that I really did want the nice 100%.

(What can I say.... it's a sickness ?)

 

I really hope the sequel does not feature a trophy like this one - I don't want to spoil the game, so only had the briefest of scans through the list, and it doesn't appear to have a similar trophy, so my fingers are crossed on that one - I'll be playing it regardless, because my God, the game deserves a sequel! -  but if anyone knows, please let me know so I can start mentally preparing!!

 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[Titanomachy_75]

24 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Well, I managed to get this trophy last night, after numerous setbacks and failures, and while I am glad to have gotten it....

....I really think the trophy is a bit of a stain on an otherwise excellent game.

 

I'll start by saying - I really do love Little Nightmares. 

The art design is fucking beautiful (or beautifully ugly I suppose!)

The sound design is fantastic, and the tone is wonderfully creepy and sinister, without ever veering into cliché or out-and-out gore.

 

I particularly love the sense of fear and panic that are instilled by the slightly peculiar control scheme, and 'loosey-goosey' nature of the protagonist's movement.

In some games this would be a hinderance, but in the case of Little Nightmares, I think it both increases the tension, and makes the act of exploring the world and the puzzles more interesting, as you can never be quite sure what jumps are possible, which ledges you might just be able to reach etc.

 

This, coupled with the slightly unpredictable nature of the AI reactions of the enemies makes a shortish game very interesting, and quite repayable.

 

However...

....in the case of this particular trophy (requiring a speed run of the game in under an hour, with no deaths,) almost all of these factors that otherwise make the game great, instantly become frustrating and irksome.

 

I have no issue with speedrun trophies, or 'No-Death' ones, really - in short games like Little Nightmares I think they are well suited to the genre, and even combination 'No Deaths and Speed' type trophies can be great - I'm thinking of Limbo for example - but I really think that only works if the game is one of very precise and tight controls, with predictable AI that can be learned.

 

Here, that is not so.

 

I think either one would be fine in this game.

If there were two trophies - one for 'No Deaths', and another for speed, I think that would go a long way to solving my complains.

 

Little Nightmares is comprised of 5 main levels, each shorter than the last for the most part - and the majority of interaction with unpredictable enemies comes on Chapters 3 and 4.

 

I ended up losing count of how many times I made it half way through the game, only to have an enemy in Chapter 3 or 4 seem to see me from a spot I was perfectly safe in 10 times before, or lean a different way than they normally do, or do a little random sneezing animation, slowing them down so my planned route no longer worked.

Those are great things for the game generally, but soul-destroying for a speedrun / no-deaths run.

It's tough enough when you know it's all your own fault - like in Limbo, but where you feel it is partly due to random game factors, it is really crushing.

 

One little slip, and that's me back to running through levels 1 and 2 again, which I suspect I could now play through blindfolded!

 

In the end, I am a little ashamed to admit, I did what I never really like to do in these type of trophy attempts - cloud backup a save before unpredictable encounters, and save-scum reload to get through. 

(I know, I know. Get out your 'Shame' bells and get a-ringing )

 

The effect of doing so, is that I just ended up getting frustrated and annoyed, staring at loading screens more often than playing.

By the time I actually made it through to the (relatively easy) final boss stage, and knew the run was good, I was more annoyed at the game than anything else.

 

For a game I had enjoyed immensely until this trophy, that is a real bummer. 

 

 

 

On the plus side though - immediately after popping that trophy, I moved on to the DLC - back to playing the game as it is meant to be played, and within 2 minutes, that annoyance had melted away, and I remembered how fantastic the game is when you are not trying for that one bleeding trophy! 

 

So, clearly, it's just that one Hard to the Core trophy that is the issue.

 

I know I should have done what is really the appropriate thing - ignored that trophy and moved on - accept defeat - but there is so much to love in this game, that I really did want the nice 100%.

(What can I say.... it's a sickness )

 

I really hope the sequel does not feature a trophy like this one - I don't want to spoil the game, so only had the briefest of scans through the list, and it doesn't appear to have a similar trophy, so my fingers are crossed on that one - I'll be playing it regardless, because my God, the game deserves a sequel! -  but if anyone knows, please let me know so I can start mentally preparing!!

 

 

 

Yeah, the second installment does not have this type of trophy ... Just can enjoy the game to its fullest!!

[DrBloodmoney]

3 minutes ago, Titanomachy_75 said:

Yeah, the second installment does not have this type of trophy ... Just can enjoy the game to its fullest!!

 

Magic!

 

cheers my friend - that's great to hear! ?

[sk_lp_him]

You'll die a lot more in the sequel, especially to those damn mannequins and hands in the hospital. The plat percentage would never be this high if there was a no death run trophy.

[Cobbsquatch]

From what I read of that essay.

...It's not a hard speedrun can be done in 40-50 minutes, plenty of time under that hour mark. There's also not many times you'll die, you can save yaself a lot of the time.

[DrBloodmoney]

16 minutes ago, Cobbsquatch said:

From what I read of that essay.

...It's not a hard speedrun can be done in 40-50 minutes, plenty of time under that hour mark. There's also not many times you'll die, you can save yaself a lot of the time.

 

Okay mate, well, sorry if my post felt like an essay to you.

There's no need to be dismissive about it though. You don't have to comment.?

 

As far as the trophy goes, I think you are being a bit reductive to make a point.

 

I mean, if you found it so easy...

 

...then why did you take the time to manually put it at the top of your 'Trophy Cabinet', when it was already the top of your 'Rarest Trophies' window? ?

 

[Peneuvista]

You can pause it everytime you want, eliminating that "random" element. For me, the worst phase was the final encounter with the Janitor, that "boss fight".

[Cobbsquatch]

5 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Okay mate, well, sorry if my post felt like an essay to you.

There's no need to be dismissive about it though. You don't have to comment.?

 

As far as the trophy goes, I think you are being a bit reductive to make a point.

 

I mean, if you found it so easy...

 

...then why did you take the time to manually put it at the top of your 'Trophy Cabinet', when it was already the top of your 'Rarest Trophies' window? ?

 

I mean that's a lot of text for anyone lol.. But okay. 

And cos it's in there with the other no death run trophies, and in rarity order   I can put it at the bottom if that'll make you happier?

[DrBloodmoney]

1 minute ago, Cobbsquatch said:

I mean that's a lot of text for anyone lol.. But okay. 

And cos it's in there with the other no death run trophies, and in rarity order   I can put it at the bottom if that'll make you happier?

 

Oh come on now.

There's no need for us to be snarking at one another.?

 

All I'm saying is, the trophy is tricky.

 

Obviously you should put anything you want in your cabinet - and I think it should be in there, as I think it's a tough trophy - as my essay attests  

 

 

[Cobbsquatch]

21 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Oh come on now.

There's no need for us to be snarking at one another.

 

All I'm saying is, the trophy is tricky.

 

Obviously you should put anything you want in your cabinet - and I think it should be in there, as I think it's a tough trophy - as my essay attests  

 

 

Fair .. Just didn't find it nearly as difficult as I see everyone claim, was kinda weird, I flew through it honestly. You can basically just sprint through most the game, it tricks you into thinking you've gotta sneak at certain points, but it's pointless.

[ZachBoardyHD]

You can tell when playing the game that the game wasn't designed to be sped through as the AI is way too unpredictable, for example, when they from to A to B, sometimes they won't go to a certain place as they did on a previous run, one playthough they will notice you or not, even though you did exactly the same actions as you did on previous runs. 

Also the chase sequences, especially the chef chase where you have to grab the meat hook, if you go too fast you'll not get a chance to grab a hook without getting caught. 

Sometimes six will rufuse to grab an item to pull or push it even though you need to do so to get through the story.

If the game expects perfection from me, I expect perfection from the game but because it's temperamental with how the AI is and whether you can perform an action or not. What the hell where they thinking adding such a strict tight time trail with no deaths trophy? 

[DrBloodmoney]

Well, a little update to this incase anyone stumbles onto it - I'm now playing Little Nightmares II, and....

 

....I love it!

 

What a great game!

Wonderful little series this - hope no one is put off by the one trophy I was complaining about!

[Titanomachy_75]

7 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Well, a little update to this incase anyone stumbles onto it - I'm now playing Little Nightmares II, and....

 

....I love it!

 

What a great game!

Wonderful little series this - hope no one is put off by the one trophy I was complaining about!

Yeah its wonder title ... I wish they would port over  -VERY LITTLE NIGHTMARES-  That would be awesome!!  So we could have all 3 games!!

[DrBloodmoney]

1 minute ago, Titanomachy_75 said:

Yeah its wonder title ... I wish they would port over  -VERY LITTLE NIGHTMARES-  That would be awesome!!  So we could have all 3 games!!

 

Huh.... I didn't even realise that was a thing!

 

Cool, reckon that'll be on my iPad by the end of the day - cheers mate!

[Titanomachy_75]

1 minute ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Huh.... I didn't even realise that was a thing!

 

Cool, reckon that'll be on my iPad by the end of the day - cheers mate!

haha Yeah, its a fun little title! Not to give away too much but ... Six is there  and the bosses are very cool check it out!!!

[sephiroth4424]

On 3/3/2021 at 0:10 PM, DrBloodmoney said:

....in the case of this particular trophy (requiring a speed run of the game in under an hour, with no deaths,) almost all of these factors that otherwise make the game great, instantly become frustrating and irksome

 

How frustrating is this compared to the two-hours speedrun in ICO?

[DrBloodmoney]

19 minutes ago, sephiroth4424 said:

How frustrating is this compared to the two-hours speedrun in ICO?

 

hmmm.... interesting question....

 

There are definitely similarities, and I'd say that they can both be frustrating, but in different ways.

 

With Ico, the most likely failure state is the time - getting towards the last sections of the game, and realising you are not going to make it is the most frustrating part, as the time constraint is much tighter in that game.

 

However, with Little Nightmares, the time is less the issue - as if you are getting through the encounters unscathed, you are most likely within the time limit anyways. There is much less scope for actually going in the wrong direction or wasting a bunch of time in Little Nightmares - you are either doing well, time-wise, or you are dead! 

 

In Little Nightmares, the frustration comes more from the feeling of randomness that can happen with the controls / enemies, and from dying and having to restart, which is compounded tenfold in the speedrun, as you are much more likely to try to do things quickly, and be in a situation where you are unable to correct or adjust if the enemies do something unusual / unexpected. If you are going quickly, you are by nature, a little more reckless, which means you mess up more.

 

 Ico, for all that people rag on Yorda's randomness, isn't really random. If you are playing it 'well' you will almost never be in a situation where she is getting massively off course, and the game is much more 'learnable' than Little Nightmares, in my opinion. (Though - keep in mind - I was a big fan of Ico back on the PS2, and knew the game very well before I ever played it on PS3. I might also be just plain wrong about how learnable Little Nightmares is too, TBH. If I had spent as much time with it as I did with Ico over the years, I might feel differently, I suppose.)

 

Not sure if that really helps you, or even fully addresses the question(!), but that's as close to an answer as I think I'm qualified to give!

Edited March 22, 2021 by DrBloodmoney