Platinum Difficulty Ratings - A Question

[Ich1994-1994]

42 minutes ago, Ac3dUd3- said:

Platinum difficulty ratings I find are just as useless as estimated time to platinum ratings. I constantly feel that people say they can plat a game quicker than what I do and I feel im going through the game pretty fast.

 

These ratings are best judged by user submissions of course, people who finish Souls games without being hit or killed will obviously rate it a 1 or 2/10 however someone with horrible hand eye coordination might rate an easier VR game a 9 or 10/10. Such a vast difference in skills most of these ratings would be inaccurate until you have dozens or hundreds of ratings to balance out the extreme ends of the curves.

i find them usefull in term of seeinf the difference between a game that takes 10-30 hours and a game that takes 70-100 hoursl also for diffuculty its useful for me to see if its 1-2 5-6 or 8-9

also when someone can plat a game quicker its doesnt really have to show that he is better or something. with a lot of games i dont even want to finish them as fast as i can. some games i also wonna play a little bit and have gaming fun with them instead of just going for the trophies (which is a different but also legit way of having fun in my oppinion)

[AJ_Radio]

1 hour ago, Baker said:

Someone like yourself? 
 

This point you’ve made in so many topics already is getting old. Start the game yourself first before complaining.

I never said I will avoid Wolfenstein, I just haven’t gotten around to it yet. 
 

Do yourself a favor and put me on your ignore list if you find me goddamn annoying. It will save you a lot of headaches later on.

 

I always love people who couldn’t give a shit about progress status updates I make or any platinum/100 percent game I’ve recently done. As soon as I write something negative, you get all goddamn sensitive and have to point it out. 
 

Lighten up. I’m suggesting that to you. If people are sick about a game I keep posting about, I’m just as tired of comments like this. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by AJ_Radio

[DrBloodmoney]

22 hours ago, AJ_Radio said:

Real cute. I never said I will avoid Wolfenstein, I just haven’t gotten around to it yet. 
 

Do yourself a favor and put me on your ignore list if you find me goddamn annoying. It will save you a lot of headaches later on.

 

I always love people who couldn’t give a shit about progress status updates I make or any platinum/100 percent game I’ve recently done. As soon as I write something negative, you get all goddamn sensitive and have to point it out. 
 

Lighten up. I’m suggesting that to you. If people are sick about a game I keep posting about, I’m just as tired of comments like this. 

 

Yes you did. 

 

You played it on an 'Alt' account:

 

On 12/05/2018 at 10:32 PM, AJ_Radio said:

 

I played through the game on an alt account and I thought it wasn't bad at all. I'm in no position to tackle Mein Leben as I died a lot even on normal difficulty and I'll need to practice for a good long while before I'll even consider going for it.

 

presumably to avoid Mein Lieben, so please don't get up on your high horse about it.

 

 

 

If you're getting tired of "comments like this" from @Baker, me and others, you know exactly how to stop them.

 

 

This community is nice, welcoming and accommodating - it's exactly for this reason that people like me and Baker like it here, and the reason that when you start a long, meandering post by calling people "pathetic", you get curt and dismissive responses directed back at you. 

 

You know this perfectly well, so please do not act surprised when it happens.

Putting you on an ignore list is not the answer. New site members need to know that your brand of negativity is not the norm.

 

There is a small contingent of negativity on the site from time to time - it has its small share of braggarts, of elitists, of cockwombles, of fawning sycophants and of passive-aggressive bullies.

All sites do.

But your post - and many of your similar posts on other threads - manage the near impossible: they demonstrate all of the above.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[War-Heed]

Im just here for comments ?.

 

In all seriousness I do agree with the peak difficulty for a trophy being reflected in the guides. I normally try to take an average from here and .org.

No one wants to be suckered into a game that starts in the mid difficulty range then spikes to the top end because of a single trophy which they cant achieve, so the guides do a reasonable job incorporating this.

 

5 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

 

cockwombles

 

 

?????

[AJ_Radio]

4 minutes ago, IronEden-13 said:

No one wants to be suckered into a game that starts in the mid difficulty range then spikes to the top end because of a single trophy which they cant achieve, so the guides do a reasonable job incorporating this.

For the completionists yeah. For many others, not so much. 
 

Crash Bandicoot starts off relatively easy then gets a bit difficult, particularly the High Road and Stormy Ascent. 
 

Most 100 percent trophy profiles I feel avoid certain games because of difficulty or because of certain trophies that are tricky. 
 

7 minutes ago, IronEden-13 said:

????

Cute. 

[DrBloodmoney]

@IronEden-13

You never heard that one before?

It's a good word:

 

Wikipedia

1. Cockwomble (NOUN)

   A person, usually male, prone to making outrageously stupid statements and/or inappropriate behavior while generally having a very high opinion of his own wisdom and importance.

[Baker]

31 minutes ago, AJ_Radio said:

I never said I will avoid Wolfenstein, I just haven’t gotten around to it yet. 
 

Do yourself a favor and put me on your ignore list if you find me goddamn annoying. It will save you a lot of headaches later on.

 

I always love people who couldn’t give a shit about progress status updates I make or any platinum/100 percent game I’ve recently done. As soon as I write something negative, you get all goddamn sensitive and have to point it out. 
 

Lighten up. I’m suggesting that to you. If people are sick about a game I keep posting about, I’m just as tired of comments like this. 

Annoying? I didn’t say anything about annoying. I enjoy your rants ?.

 

But every once in a while someone needs to point out the hypocrisy in your posts. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Baker

[AJ_Radio]

Just now, Baker said:

Annoying? I didn’t say anytihing about annoying. I enjoy your rants .

 

But every once in a while someone needs to point out the hypocrisy in your posts. 

A lot of people do. 
 

I even mentioned about the game being brought up and people already beat me to the punch mentioning it. I mean cmon. 
 

I will argue that Mein Leben is actually a nice change of pace from many AAA titles that guide your hand such as the newer Assassin’s Creed. Yakuza 0 is another game I want to get around to and it’s a bit difficult on top of being time consuming. One is hard but relatively short, the other isn’t as hard but will likely require several weeks of playing to finish. 
 

Giving a 10/10 for Crypt of the Necrodancer as the OP stated is definite I think. I would either have to be unemployed and with no duties or spend several years working on the game. There’s too many other games I’d rather play. 

[War-Heed]

8 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

@IronEden-13

You never heard that one before?

It's a good word:

 

Wikipedia

1. Cockwomble (NOUN)

   A person, usually male, prone to making outrageously stupid statements and/or inappropriate behavior while generally having a very high opinion of his own wisdom and importance.

I have mate. Just not very often. 

[Pray_4_the_End]

32 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

@IronEden-13

You never heard that one before?

It's a good word:

 

Wikipedia

1. Cockwomble (NOUN)

   A person, usually male, prone to making outrageously stupid statements and/or inappropriate behavior while generally having a very high opinion of his own wisdom and importance.

 

Definitely going to start incorporating that into my vernacular ASAP. Next person I see is getting called a Cockwomble regardless of whether or not they fit that description. Learn something new everyday, much appreciated @DrBloodmoney. ???

[BrandedBerserk]

Nothing to add to this discussion but damn did shit go left real quick ?

[War-Heed]

34 minutes ago, AJ_Radio said:

 

I will argue that Mein Leben is actually a nice change of pace from many AAA titles that guide your hand such as the newer Assassin’s Creed. Yakuza 0 is another game I want to get around to and it’s a bit difficult on top of being time consuming. One is hard but relatively short, the other isn’t as hard but will likely require several weeks of playing to finish. 
 

Giving a 10/10 for Crypt of the Necrodancer as the OP stated is definite I think. I would either have to be unemployed and with no duties or spend several years working on the game. There’s too many other games I’d rather play. 

I do agree that mein leben is/was a change of pace, this is a prime of example of the guide reflecting the hardest trophy of the game and a massive troll from the devs as to how the others could be "cheesed". While it could be argued that only completionists would go for it, it could be argued that since you're on a trophy hunting site and you register wolfenstein 2 on you're profile then you knew exactly what you were getting into.

I see a lot of mid rated games (specifically with mp) that players constantly bitch about because of one trophy. Prime example

 

Death from above - bf5

 

[DrBloodmoney]

4 minutes ago, IronEden-13 said:

I do agree that mein leben is/was a change of pace, this is a prime of example of the guide reflecting the hardest trophy of the game and a massive troll from the devs as to how the others could be "cheesed". While it could be argued that only completionists would go for it, it could be argued that since you're on a trophy hunting site and you register wolfenstein 2 on you're profile then you knew exactly what you were getting into.

I see a lot of mid rated games (specifically with mp) that players constantly bitch about because of one trophy. Prime example

 

Death from above - bf5

 

 

The Challenge trophy in The Witness is always a good marker for this - the entire game can be done without any effort at all by simply looking up a bullet-point list of what the puzzle 'symbols' mean, but that 1 trophy is the only one that requires you to actually be able to play the game, at speed and under pressure.

 

Without any guide use, I'd place the game at a 3 or 4 /10, but that one trophy brings it up to a 5/10 or even a 6/10 in my personal estimation.

 

(maybe a 5 if you mute "The Hall of the Mountain King" and a 6 if you let it play in the background, as the pressure that music applies to the Challenge is a huge factor in messing up ?)

Edited April 7, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[War-Heed]

20 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

The Challenge trophy in The Witness is always a good marker for this - the entire game can be done without any effort at all by simply looking up a bullet-point list of what the puzzle 'symbols' mean, but that 1 trophy is the only one that requires you to actually be able to play the game, at speed and under pressure.

 

Without any guide use, I'd place the game at a 3 or 4 /10, but that one trophy brings it up to a 5/10 or even a 6/10 in my personal estimation.

 

(maybe a 5 if you mute "The Hall of the Mountain King" and a 6 if you let it play in the background, as the pressure that music applies to the Challenge is a huge factor in messing up )

I've read about this. Yet to try. It's in the ever growing backlog. Fml

[DrBloodmoney]

1 minute ago, IronEden-13 said:

I've read about this. Yet to try. It's in the ever growing backlog. Fml

 

 

Ohhhh, not to get derailed on this thread again, but yeah - check out The Witness - it's fantastic.

 

I played that game over the course of a week while my wife and kid were away, and man... was that a rabbit hole of madness!

So many notepad pages and post-it notes all over the walls, with codes and symbols and working-out on them!

by the time I was done, the whole front room looked like Kevin Spacey's apartment in Seven ?

[War-Heed]

35 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

 

Ohhhh, not to get derailed on this thread again, but yeah - check out The Witness - it's fantastic.

 

I played that game over the course of a week while my wife and kid were away, and man... was that a rabbit hole of madness!

So many notepad pages and post-it notes all over the walls, with codes and symbols and working-out on them!

by the time I was done, the whole front room looked like Kevin Spacey's apartment in Seven 

Yeah it also comes down to this - persistence. Which cant really be gauged, but will differ from player to player. 

[ShinySpidey]

As many have already mentioned, the hardest trophy of a game should set the overall platinum difficulty. There’s an actual difference between platinum difficulty and game difficulty, so it should be implemented in a guide imho. 
 

it’s also true that it is really hard to standardise the difficulty, thus, instead of giving random numbers, it would have much more sense to always add some context and inform as much as possible the player. I feel like numbers work very well at the extremes, not in the middle and that is obviously a problem. 
 

At least, I would like to have the difficulty rating in a guide explained. 

[starcrunch061]

16 minutes ago, ShinySpidey said:

At least, I would like to have the difficulty rating in a guide explained. 

 

That's not a bad idea, actually. I think a guide writer certainly has the right to his/her opinion on difficulty, and the vast majority of guide writers are experts on the games for which they write. But at the same time, it would be nice to say something like, "I am voting this difficulty 7 out of 10 because one trophy takes 500 hours." Then, if someone else doesn't think that time=difficulty, they know that there is nothing difficult for them in this game, and can determine their interest accordingly.

 

 It would also spare us the awful threads about what constitutes difficulty, because now it would be clear that difficulty is a subjective measurement (which it always was, but try telling that to some of these people).

 

In fact, I think I'm going to go back and explain my own difficulty ratings for all of the games for which I've written guides, because I like the idea so much.

[Lava_Yuki]

For me it's a subjective thing, as I have a few 7/10 plats from the FF and Tales games. However, Kingdom Hearts is a 9 out of 10 for me as I suck at those games and never manage to win on critical or beat super bosses like Lingering will etc. that's required for the plat, however the guides rate these games as 6 and 7s as well, which I don't really get. I found KH way harder than FF and Tales, especially with the mini games as those require some skill if you aren't one of those people that's good at mini games. I was only able to plat KH3, the rest were too hard to plat without a good degree of skill imo

[Gwendly]

It would be nice if those who have platinumed the games had a poll where they can vote for difficulty and time and then have those aggregates displayed together with the authors numbers in the guide. By only allowing those who have the plat to vote it hopefully cuts down on the troll votes , but yes those will likely happen too.

 

This could alleviate some of the guides where the author is particularly well versed in a genre , or maybe even the fact that they didn't have a guide to go off to start with and getting the platinum with some guidelines is much easier. 

 

 

[Silocia]

On 06/04/2021 at 11:08 AM, DrBloodmoney said:

Personally, my proposal would be something like this - obviously not every game would have every bullet point applicable (some would be an OR, not an AND), but as a broad framework for categorisation:

 

1/10

• Impossible to miss any trophies if game is played to completion blind
• Game requires little or no skill to platinum
• No guide use required to complete

Example Game: Telltale's The Walking Dead

 

2/10

• Very few trophies missable if game is played to completion blind
• Game requires little or no skill to platinum
• No / very little guide use required to complete

Example Game: Artifex Mundi Photohunt Games / Telltale pre-Walking Dead games

 

 

3/10

• Very few trophies missable if game is played to completion blind
• Game requires modest or low level of skill to platinum
• very little guide use required to complete
• Only a couple of tricky, skill-based trophies, if any

Example Game: The Last Campfire / Persona 5 

 

4/10

• Some missable if game is played to completion blind
• Game requires modest level of skill to platinum
• Some moderate guide use required to complete
• Some tricky, skill-based trophies, but nothing too taxing

Example Game: Assassin's Creed Ezio Games / Bioshock Games

 

5/10

• Some missable if game is played to completion blind
• Game requires modest level of skill to platinum
• Some moderate guide use required to complete
• Some more tricky, skill-based trophies
• Some harder modes required for Platinum

Example Game: Uncharted games / God of War (Reboot)

 

6/10

• Quite a few missable if game is played to completion blind
• Game requires modest level of skill to platinum
• Some trophies quite hard to complete without guide use
• Some more tricky, skill-based trophies, including a few requiring game mastery
• Some harder modes required for Platinum

Example Game: Metro Games / Souls Games

 

7/10

• A lot of missable if game is played to completion blind
• Game requires high level of skill to platinum
• Some trophies very hard to complete / figure out without guide use - but some exploits available
• Some tough, skill-based trophies, including those requiring game mastery
• Hardest modes required for Platinum

Example Game: Dead Cells / Rogue Legacy

 

8/10

• tons of missable if game is played to completion blind
• Game requires high level of skill to platinum - few exploits, if any, available
• Some trophies very hard to complete / figure out without guide use
• Quite a lot of tough, skill-based trophies, including those requiring game mastery
• Hardest modes required for Platinum

Example Game: Sekiro / Lumines Remastered

 

9/10

• tons of missable if game is played to completion blind
• Game requires very high level of skill to platinum - few exploits, if any, available
• Some trophies extremely difficult to complete / figure out without guide use
• Many of tough, skill-based trophies, including those requiring in-depth knowledge of mechanics, and game mastery
• Hardest modes required for Platinum

Example Game: Super Meat Boy?

 

10/10

• tons of missable if game is played to completion blind
• Game requires extreme level of skill to platinum - no exploits available
• Some trophies extremely difficult to complete / figure out without guide use
• A list of exceptionally tough, skill-based trophies, most of which require very in-depth knowledge of mechanics, and extreme game mastery
• Probably has an entire community dedicated to mastery of each specific game

Example Game: Crypt of the Necrodancer?

 

 

 

I'll freely admit, my categorisation of the high-end is probably weak, as I have no games on my list I would put in the 9 or 10 level, so those are based on second-hand knowledge and hearsay, but I feel like this is a broadly accurate summary of my feeling on these values.

 

 

 

I would genuinely agree with this. However, to prove how rating the difficulties can be tough I wouldn't say God of War (reboot) was harder than Persona 5 (Not Royal)

 

God of War can be played all the way through and then a clean up session afterwards.

Persona 5 you need to make sure you do specific things on specific days to ensure you max out all relationships and stuff to avoid having to play the game numerous times. Also for me, I thought the twins were a lot harder than the valkyries. But I'm merely just adding further context as to why difficulties are subjective.

[DrBloodmoney]

Just now, Silocia said:

 

I would genuinely agree with this. However, to prove how rating the difficulties can be tough I wouldn't say God of War (reboot) was harder than Persona 5 (Not Royal)

 

God of War can be played all the way through and then a clean up session afterwards.

Persona 5 you need to make sure you do specific things on specific days to ensure you max out all relationships and stuff to avoid having to play the game numerous times. Also for me, I thought the twins were a lot harder than the valkyries. But I'm merely just adding further context as to why difficulties are subjective.

 

Hmmm, maybe. - IT's worth noting that I played Royal, not base P5, so there's a bit of an error there - this was just a kind of demonstration, and I know that the time management aspect is alleviated a bit in Royal.

 

The way I was looking at it was that Persona 5, while there is some stuff that requires being worked out, has nothing exceptionally 'skill-based' in terms of control or action. God of War, on the other hand, is relatively low-intensity, skill wise, but does have a spike at the Valkyrie fights, and one of those was really pretty tricky (I found, at least ?)

[Trumpet_Boi_208]

Isn’t it a bit unfair to rate a game’s difficulty by an average rather than by the hardest trophy? I definitely see the merits of incorporating an average, but there is sometimes an outlier that separates itself in difficulty from the rest of the list. When players discover that outlier without doing any research on that trophy, then they will often feel lied to. Plus, the website didn’t allow StrickenBiged to rate Titanfall 2 based on the hardest trophy, but they allowed Vanquish to be rated based on the hardest trophy. This inconsistency makes it quite difficult to properly rate a game’s difficulty without getting criticized for it.

[Silocia]

16 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Hmmm, maybe. - IT's worth noting that I played Royal, not base P5, so there's a bit of an error there - this was just a kind of demonstration, and I know that the time management aspect is alleviated a bit in Royal.

 

The way I was looking at it was that Persona 5, while there is some stuff that requires being worked out, has nothing exceptionally 'skill-based' in terms of control or action. God of War, on the other hand, is relatively low-intensity, skill wise, but does have a spike at the Valkyrie fights, and one of those was really pretty tricky (I found, at least )

 

ahh, see, I havent played Royal. It got announced shortly after I had finished the base and I was completely burnt out by then haha. Might have to give it a shot when theres a gap in my library and see if its a little easier.

[starcrunch061]

1 hour ago, Gwendly said:

It would be nice if those who have platinumed the games had a poll where they can vote for difficulty and time and then have those aggregates displayed together with the authors numbers in the guide. By only allowing those who have the plat to vote it hopefully cuts down on the troll votes , but yes those will likely happen too.

 

This could alleviate some of the guides where the author is particularly well versed in a genre , or maybe even the fact that they didn't have a guide to go off to start with and getting the platinum with some guidelines is much easier. 

 

 

 

I'm not as sold on the "truth by democracy" or "averages are the best!" angle. pst.org has had these polls in effect for years, and I feel I've gleaned little info from the poll itself (though when people comment on their vote, it becomes more useful).

 

But I do agree that when someone is an expert in a genre, they tend to underrate the difficulty, and when someone is a trailblazer for a game with little info, they tend to overrate the difficulty.

 

41 minutes ago, Trumpet_Boi_208 said:

Isn’t it a bit unfair to rate a game’s difficulty by an average rather than by the hardest trophy? I definitely see the merits of incorporating an average, but there is sometimes an outlier that separates itself in difficulty from the rest of the list. When players discover that outlier without doing any research on that trophy, then they will often feel lied to. Plus, the website didn’t allow StrickenBiged to rate Titanfall 2 based on the hardest trophy, but they allowed Vanquish to be rated based on the hardest trophy. This inconsistency makes it quite difficult to properly rate a game’s difficulty without getting criticized for it.

 

It is absolutely absurd to me that anyone would rate the plat difficulty by averaging the difficulty of the trophies. I'm thinking, e.g., of Pier Solar. Almost every trophy in that game is incredibly easy to get (though possibly a bit tedious). They don't even take that long...

...

...but the Eternal Slip minigame, which makes up two trophies, is pretty much the gate that will keep a player from the platinum. It's completely different from anything else, trophy-wise. 

 

If a game has every trophy rating 7 out of 10 difficulty, I have no problem saying that this is a tougher plat than a game that has a single trophy that's 7 out of 10 difficulty, and a bunch of 2 out of 10's otherwise. But the deviation should be small, not large. The latter game deserves a 7, but the former might merit an 8.

Edited April 7, 2021 by starcrunch061