[Musing] An Impending Trophy Hunting Cataclysm?

[DrBloodmoney]

Well, it’s Sunday, it’s still Lock-down, and it’s time for another 'DrBloodmoney Lengthly Musing' that most people won’t read. ?

 

I have been thinking recently about the future of Trophy Hunting, in the wake of some of the general prevailing trends across the hobby as a whole.

 

Now - I preface this by saying - I am not a trophy elitist. 

My Ratalaika-defending credentials are readily available on this site, and my view that a good game is a good game, regardless of the difficulty of the trophy list is self-evident in my trophy list. 

 

What I am saying here is not a dig, or an admonishment, or an attack on anyone.

I am musing on the future of a pastime I love, that is all. 

Please do not think I am taking aim at you, or sermonising to anyone.

 

Also - I use the term cataclysm in the ‘upheaval and change’ context, not the ‘total destruction’ context - that’s important to note!

 

 

Anyway…

 

More and more, I have been starting to feel the inevitability of some sort of existential reckoning, or cataclysmic change, with regards to the leaderboard philosophies and the Trophy Hunting websites that cater to them and set them, PSNProfiles included.

 

There was a time, back in the days of the PS3, when an ‘easy platinum’ (or a ‘trash-plat’ or ‘junk-plat’, whatever term you favour) meant a few well known, yet still somewhat lengthly games. Hannah Montana, Terminator Salvation, some of the Pixar Tie-In games, some of the later Telltale games etc. 

The fact that I can specifically name them speaks volumes about the relatively minor effect they had on the general leaderboards at the time.

 

Over the course of the PS4 era, however, that relatively small contingent exploded exponentially. 

What began with the Arcade Archives games (a mix of quality, for sure - there are some great games in there, but trophy-wise, they are extremely easy and quick), and the occasional one-off ‘trophy-for-cash’ games (My Name is Mayo / Slyde/ 1000 Top Rated etc.)  was followed by the explosion of EastAsia Studio and Ratalaika games. (I myself have defended those many times in terms of the quality of some of the games, but I cannot in any way defend their policy on trophies, adding up to 8 ‘stacks’ for every release.) 

Now, the latest low in the trophy hunting race to the bottom is upon us, in the form of the ‘Breakthrough Gaming Arcade’ games - a set of platinums so hopelessly devoid of quality, effort and value that I truly believe they will be the looked back upon as the final catalyst for the impending changes I now see as inevitable.

 

 

While there was once a time when I rolled my eyes at statements by ‘Elitist’ Trophy Hunters claiming that “anyone could amass 300-odd platinums in a few months” and dismissed them as over-wrought hyperbole and sniffy-nosed elitism, now, I have to finally admit that, while that may have been exaggerated then, it is literally true now.

 

I feel like the whole community - in most aspects a conglomerate, a loose assembly of plethora of small sub-groups - is beginning to fracture into 2 distinct overarching groups with regards to these types of games - those for, and those against them.

Even people like me, who once fell broadly in-between - are being slowly pulled into one camp or the other, as the permeation of the gaming landscape with these easy, stackable platinums grows and grows in size. It is becoming impossible not to be forced to pick a side, even if one feels that it is simply a case of choosing the lesser of two evils.

 

Even on PSNP, (historically the most egalitarian and non-elitist of the trophy sites,) the push from what was once a small portion of the user base for more tailored leaderboards, catering to hunters who focus specifically on rarity, or completionism, or scarcity, as opposed to the pure, raw, numbers game has steadily grown over the years from a bubbling undercurrent - easily dismissed or ignored by the majority - to a roaring, churning sea has been slow, but has been gaining pace and volume all the time, and is - I feel - beginning to reach a critical mass.

I feel like I see pretty much the same number of post decrying these games, and calling for their exclusion from the leaderboards, as I do of threads proclaiming the virtues of the next 1-hour platinum, and filled with positive comments and elation at the number of stacks and the ease of trophies.

 

It really feels like this is becoming an unsustainable dichotomy.

 

 

Once, not terribly long ago, I would play any game I felt like, and if it was a Ratalaika game where the platinum came in the first hour, or an Artifex Mundi or Telltale game, where the Platinum is a guarantee, it felt fine. 

 

More recently, playing those games began to feel a little different - still fine, but more and more I felt that there was a sense of tut-tutting and poo-poo-ing from some aspects of the community, and I felt more and more the need to justify playing these game - both to myself, and to others.

That the common understanding was that I would have only played these games for quick trophies, and that any argument that I might have actually enjoyed them was ludicrous.

 

I tried hard to avoid those kind of feelings ever affecting what I played, and for the most part that worked fine, however - and now I come to the crux of my point - now, playing such games is giving me pause for a different reason:

I'm beginning to worry that having too many ‘easy’ games on my profile may affect the longevity and viability of my profile.

 

I’m beginning to feel that soon, there will be changes to the way these sites actually cater to trophy hunting. 

It feels inevitable that the way in which profiles are tracked will begin to change dramatically in the next few years, and I am starting to worry that having too many ‘easy’ games will end up with my profile being excluded from whatever leaderboards exist in the future entirely. 

 

Whether it happens on the existing sites, as a result of the crescendoing push for alterations to the leaderboards, or if the existing sites stagnate, and some new player enters the scene, I do not know, but I feel like - based on the number of threads requesting change - if some new site did pop up, that offered the same levels of service as the current ones, but excluded anyone with too high a percentage of easy games, or discounted stacks, or required a certain rarity percentage for inclusion, it would immediately siphon off users from the existing sites at an alarming rate.

 

If that were the case, I’m almost worried that playing too many Ratalaika games, or EastAsiaSoft games or the likes, may be potentially precluding my inclusion in the hobby I love, somewhere down the road.

 

 

 

Maybe I’m just getting Covid-crazy and seeing patterns where there aren’t any - always a possibility! ?- but I’d be interested if anyone else has been feeling the same?

Like maybe we are closer to the end of trophy hunting as a raw-numbers game than to the start of it, and that maybe the winds of change are starting to blow?

 

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[The_Real_T-Bomb]

37 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Well, it’s Sunday, it’s still Lock-down, and it’s time for another 'DrBloodmoney Lengthly Musing' that most people won’t read. 

 

I have been thinking recently about the future of Trophy Hunting, in the wake of some of the general prevailing trends across the hobby as a whole.

 

Now - I preface this by saying - I am not a trophy elitist. 

My Ratalaika-defending credentials are readily available on this site, and my view that a good game is a good game, regardless of the difficulty of the trophy list is self-evident in my trophy list. 

 

What I am saying here is not a dig, or an admonishment, or an attack on anyone.

I am musing on the future of a pastime I love, that is all. 

Please do not think I am taking aim at you, or sermonising to anyone.

 

Also - I use the term cataclysm in the ‘upheaval and change’ context, not the ‘total destruction’ context - that’s important to note!

 

 

Anyway…

 

More and more, I have been starting to feel the inevitability of some sort of existential reckoning, or cataclysmic change, with regards to the leaderboard philosophies and the Trophy Hunting websites that cater to them and set them, PSNProfiles included.

 

There was a time, back in the days of the PS3, when an ‘easy platinum’ (or a ‘trash-plat’ or ‘junk-plat’, whatever term you favour) meant a few well known, yet still somewhat lengthly games. Hannah Montana, Terminator Salvation, some of the Pixar Tie-In games, some of the later Telltale games etc. 

The fact that I can specifically name them speaks volumes about the relatively minor effect they had on the general leaderboards at the time.

 

Over the course of the PS4 era, however, that relatively small contingent exploded exponentially. 

What began with the Arcade Archives games (a mix of quality, for sure - there are some great games in there, but trophy-wise, they are extremely easy and quick), and the occasional one-off ‘trophy-for-cash’ games (My Name is Mayo / Slyde/ 1000 Top Rated etc.)  was followed by the explosion of EastAsia Studio and Ratalaika games. (I myself have defended those many times in terms of the quality of some of the games, but I cannot in any way defend their policy on trophies, adding up to 8 ‘stacks’ for every release.) 

Now, the latest low in the trophy hunting race to the bottom is upon us, in the form of the ‘Breakthrough Gaming Arcade’ games - a set of platinums so hopelessly devoid of quality, effort and value that I truly believe they will be the looked back upon as the final catalyst for the impending changes I now see as inevitable.

 

 

While there was once a time when I rolled my eyes at statements by ‘Elitist’ Trophy Hunters claiming that “anyone could amass 300-odd platinums in a few months” and dismissed them as over-wrought hyperbole and sniffy-nosed elitism, now, I have to finally admit that, while that may have been exaggerated then, it is literally true now.

 

I feel like the whole community - in most aspects a conglomerate, a loose assembly of plethora of small sub-groups - is beginning to fracture into 2 distinct overarching groups with regards to these types of games - those for, and those against them.

Even people like me, who once fell broadly in-between - are being slowly pulled into one camp or the other, as the permeation of the gaming landscape with these easy, stackable platinums grows and grows in size. It is becoming impossible not to be forced to pick a side, even if one feels that it is simply a case of choosing the lesser of two evils.

 

Even on PSNP, (historically the most egalitarian and non-elitist of the trophy sites,) the push from what was once a small portion of the user base for more tailored leaderboards, catering to hunters who focus specifically on rarity, or completionism, or scarcity, as opposed to the pure, raw, numbers game has steadily grown over the years from a bubbling undercurrent - easily dismissed or ignored by the majority - to a roaring, churning sea has been slow, but has been gaining pace and volume all the time, and is - I feel - beginning to reach a critical mass.

I feel like I see pretty much the same number of post decrying these games, and calling for their exclusion from the leaderboards, as I do of threads proclaiming the virtues of the next 1-hour platinum, and filled with positive comments and elation at the number of stacks and the ease of trophies.

 

It really feels like this is becoming an unsustainable dichotomy.

 

 

Once, not terribly long ago, I would play any game I felt like, and if it was a Ratalaika game where the platinum came in the first hour, or an Artifex Mundi or Telltale game, where the Platinum is a guarantee, it felt fine. 

 

More recently, playing those games began to feel a little different - still fine, but more and more I felt that there was a sense of tut-tutting and poo-poo-ing from some aspects of the community, and I felt more and more the need to justify playing these game - both to myself, and to others.

That the common understanding was that I would have only played these games for quick trophies, and that any argument that I might have actually enjoyed them was ludicrous.

 

I tried hard to avoid those kind of feelings ever affecting what I played, and for the most part that worked fine, however - and now I come to the crux of my point - now, playing such games is giving me pause for a different reason:

I'm beginning to worry that having too many ‘easy’ games on my profile may affect the longevity and viability of my profile.

 

I’m beginning to feel that soon, there will be changes to the way these sites actually cater to trophy hunting. 

It feels inevitable that the way in which profiles are tracked will begin to change dramatically in the next few years, and I am starting to worry that having too many ‘easy’ games will end up with my profile being excluded from whatever leaderboards exist in the future entirely. 

 

Whether it happens on the existing sites, as a result of the crescendoing push for alterations to the leaderboards, or if the existing sites stagnate, and some new player enters the scene, I do not know, but I feel like - based on the number of threads requesting change - if some new site did pop up, that offered the same levels of service as the current ones, but excluded anyone with too high a percentage of easy games, or discounted stacks, or required a certain rarity percentage for inclusion, it would immediately siphon off users from the existing sites at an alarming rate.

 

If that were the case, I’m almost worried that playing too many Ratalaika games, or EastAsiaSoft games or the likes, may be potentially precluding my inclusion in the hobby I love, somewhere down the road.

 

 

 

Maybe I’m just getting Covid-crazy and seeing patterns where there aren’t any - always a possibility! - but I’d be interested if anyone else has been feeling the same?

Like maybe we are closer to the end of trophy hunting as a raw-numbers game than to the start of it, and that maybe the winds of change are starting to blow?

 

 

 

 

I've wanted for a long time for there to be an alternate (or maybe primary) leaderboard that factors rarity into the equation. I don't do website design and can't code so I'm not sure how much of an undertaking that would be in terms of computing power but for me its always been something that I see as more interesting. Setting aside the argument for the 30 minute platinums (I myself have MNIM platted twice), I feel like involving rarity into the mix (I saw an interesting method where you subtract from 1 the percent of people on the site who have the trophy and then multiply that number by the value of the trophy (bronze,silver,gold,plat)) would be more interesting as a whole as the leaderboards would not just be a measure of time commitment but skill as well. If someone can plat olioli 2 in under a day then to me they are a better trophy hunter than someone who platted spyro in under a day, and they should be recognized for that. 

Edited April 18, 2021 by The_Real_T-Bomb

[DrBloodmoney]

6 minutes ago, The_Real_T-Bomb said:

I've wanted for a long time for there to be an alternate (or maybe primary) leaderboard that factors in rarity into the equation. I don't do website design and can't code so I'm not sure how much of an undertaking that would be in terms of computing power but for me its always been something that I see as more interesting. Setting aside the argument for the 30 minute platinums (I myself have MNIM platted twice), I feel like involving rarity into the mix (I saw an interesting method where you subtract from 1 the percent of people on the site who have the trophy and then multiply that number by the value of the trophy (bronze,silver,gold,plat)) would be more interesting as a whole as the leaderboards would not just be a measure of time commitment but skill as well. If someone can plat olioli 2 in under a day then to me they are a better trophy hunter than someone who platted spyro in under a day, and they should be recognized for that. 

PSNLT does a few different leaderboards - including a rarity one - not quite sure of the methods behind it, but it’s interesting at least.

 

Also - No shame in MNIM - loads of people have it - I don’t personally, but I have Sound Shapes autopops up the wazoo, and a fairly hefty Artifex Mundi addiction, so I’m not shaming anyone for any trophy hunting behaviour here, for sure ?

 

Like I said, I’m more just feeing like the lack of the current sites changing, coupled with the more and more militant force demanding change, is potentially going to result in a much more extremist policy in the future - either from an overhauled existing site, or a brand new one taking the hobby by storm. 

Edited April 18, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[dieselmanchild]

While I am probably one of the so called “trophy elitists” and completely agree with your assessment of how these types of EzPz platinums have over saturated the market and dramatically changed the integrity of this hobby and the reasons for which people hunt trophies in the first place, I don’t really share your sense of an impending cataclysm in the leaderboards or the way trophies are tracked.

 

However, I do kind of like this idea of a leaderboard apocalypse. ? If there is going to be any sort of major shift in thinking or a fracture in the community in the near future, I think it would be really cool to see the rise of a sub-community that caters to real trophy hunters who are dedicated to the old ways. The current leaderboards and the nature of competitive trophy hunting has become a bit of a joke and it would just be really nice to be part of a community of likeminded trophy hunters to motivate and challenge one another. Because I know there are still tons of these types of players out there, and a lot of them have become my good friends on PSN.

 

As for the current state of PlayStation trophy hunting, I believe things will only get worse. There is too much money at stake and to be frank, Sony doesn’t give a flying fuck about trophies or this community. If there is any sort of change to be had, or a shift in player’s mentality of what it means to be a trophy hunter, it is up to us as a community to figure that out.

Edited April 18, 2021 by dieselmanchild

[DrBloodmoney]

4 minutes ago, dieselmanchild said:

While I am probably one of the so called “trophy elitists” and completely agree with your assessment of how these types of EzPz platinums have over saturated the market and dramatically changed the integrity of this hobby and the reasons for which people hunt trophies in the first place, I don’t really share your sense of an impending cataclysm in the leaderboards or the way trophies are tracked.

You know, the irony is, I have been saying I’m not a ‘Trophy Elitist’ for as long as I have been a trophy hunter, but as the sands shift and the goalposts move, maybe now I am getting closer to acting like one just by default ?

 

I mean, my trophy hunting habits haven’t changed, but it feels like the landscape has shifted so much around me.

 

I’m still a pretty casual player of any game I fancy - I’ll play anything I think looks fun, and I try to avoid anything that looks like I won’t - but the very fact that quick, easy trophies alone aren’t enough to entice me to open my wallet...

 

8 years ago, that wouldn’t have come close to making me an ‘elitist’...

... but in the current landscape?

I don’t know...

[AihaLoveleaf]

This thread came at a good time. I'm new to the site and new to actually caring about trophies in general but I do already have some thoughts on the situation. 

 

Firstly, I'm not an elitist. I don't mind easy trophies and I don't judge people that want to farm them. I even bought a few "easy" games myself to play later on, but only the ones that actually appealed to me due to art or gameplay. I won't be adding them to my profile yet simply because I want my profile to reflect my current goal of catching up on unfinished trophy pages from 2011-2012 without the progress being obscured by several Platinums from easier games.

 

I came from an online rhythm game for PC that I'm sure some people will recognize as soon as I start talking about it. This game gave you what were called "Performance Points" (or PP for short) based on how well you did on a song. Those points allowed you to climb the leaderboards. The more difficult the song the more points you earn to your profile. After some time, numerous mappers (the people who generate content for said game) started to create maps for songs that were meant to exploit the points system for a large payout. The difficulty in these "farm maps" are still there, but it's contained in such a way that a player at the right level for it can easily full combo the map for a big payout and rise in rank on the leaderboards. It's one of those things that players overall frequently complain about, but resign to participating anyway because if you want to climb the ranks and be relevant you have to do it. Kind of the same situation with Ratalaika and all of the other easy Platinums out here.

 

I believe there's a place in this hobby for easy trophies. In my opinion, though, a lot of these 1/10 games I'm seeing on the market right now should for the most part be 100% lists at best. Throw in a Gold trophy or two if you want but there's a lot of games right now that just shouldn't have Platinums. 

 

I just recently got my first taste of what it's like when you get a Platinum on a game that really challenged you to try harder and play more to improve. It's euphoric and I know what people mean now when they talk about how great they feel after conquering a game that's hard for them. I'm not getting on a high horse here and saying that all Platinums need to be hard, but there should be at least some time and effort involved. I'm thinking about the 3s or 5s that I've seen here as a bare minimum.

 

Unfortunately, I think things are only going to get worse from here. Usually, once a ranking system falls into the degeneracy of easy climbing it doesn't easily come out of that. It was one thing for people to get the trophy stacks on Ratalaika games, but now we have Breakthrough Gaming Arcade games adding to their library by the week. I am mostly okay with Ratalaika's games, but Breakthrough's games are personally where I have to draw the line. Their games, from what I have seen, are totally devoid of any artistic style and effort into fleshing out at least a barely decent gameplay experience. You're basically trading one dollar or one euro for a Platinum trophy, which I know can be said about Ratalaika too, but at least the developers of the games Ratalika published put some effort into artwork and gameplay, for the most part at least.

[dieselmanchild]

35 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

You know, the irony is, I have been saying I’m not a ‘Trophy Elitist’ for as long as I have been a trophy hunter, but as the sands shift and the goalposts move, maybe now I am getting closer to acting like one just by default ?

 

I mean, my trophy hunting habits haven’t changed, but it feels like the landscape has shifted so much around me.

 

I’m still a pretty casual player of any game I fancy - I’ll play anything I think looks fun, and I try to avoid anything that looks like I won’t - but the very fact that quick, easy trophies alone aren’t enough to entice me to open my wallet...

 

8 years ago, that wouldn’t have come close to making me an ‘elitist’...

... but in the current landscape?

I don’t know...

Perhaps that kind of change is only natural? It seems to me that most of the people who aren’t so called “elitists”, or who rail against them constantly, are usually just feeling really defensive about the fact they are part of the problem facing this community. They want their ezplats and don’t like people looking down on them for it. That puts the rest of us in a category that gets us labeled as elitists.

 

I don’t see how there aren’t more “elitists” though. I mean like you’ve alluded to, this whole trend has gotten so out of control so quickly that it’s getting impossible for anybody to ignore. Trophy hunting doesn’t even remotely resemble the same thing it did just a few years ago. Even some of the biggest offenders (ex. multiple top pagers) are openly complaining about how much they despise this trend and the way it has eroded the fabric of this hobby they loved, or how they feel obligated to focus all their efforts on shitty games just to maintain their ranks and stay competitive.

 

Look at a guy like Hakoom for example. I don’t mean to single him out, but I like him, he’s a legend in this community and a perfect example of this. The guy was hunting himself into an early grave and constantly railing against being forced to play shitty games he hated, and seemed very exhausted and unhappy with his habits and the toll it was taking on him to maintain rank 1.

At some point he seemed to finally stop giving a shit for whatever reason and gave up his rank 1 status in order to start focusing a lot more energy on playing games that excited him or challenged him, and to work on other projects like his YouTube channel etc. It seems he began to rediscover the whole spirit of why he began trophy hunting in the first place, and the guy seems SO much happier these days because of it. He still balances some crappy platinums into the equation of course, but he’s playing more for himself these days rather than chasing meaningless, arbitrary numbers on his profile, and I’m really happy for him. 

 

I think this whole community could benefit from a similar look in the mirror, and remember what got us all into trophy hunting in the first place. Because I know it wasn’t just to see endless meaningless trophy notifications popping up on the screen. ?

[Yuber6969]

I look at the inflation of EZPZ plats like the whole "every kid is a winner" thing.

[TheSleepyBeauty]

I think every trophy hunter will agree with me on this that there's a different feeling when you platinum an easy game compared to a hard game. Platinum a game that takes challenge and days or weeks to complete you cherish that platinum, your proud and you feel a self of accomplishment. I've never felt that in a ratalaika game. And I sure as hell would never feel that in a BreakThrough game.

[ladynadiad]

Honestly I'm just really seeing PSN going a lot of the same or similar routes as Steam did over the years.  PSN just seems to mostly be a few years behind on many things and doesn't get the worst of it.  People bitch about a game like My Name is Mayo, but imagine getting that and a ton of clones of it as well.  I honestly see PSN going in a similar direction overall of the number of plats and trophies no longer mattering and people will focus more on things like completion and rarity or just not care about stats and play games they want to play.

 

But I don't think we need to worry about any "cataclysm" happening unless Sony drops all remaining pretenses of quality control and stops limiting the amount of trophies in a game.  As long as some level of quality control exists and there can't be trophy spam games, things will continue much as they are now.

[PalaceOfLove706]

For the record, and you can check my profile, I was unable to platinum Breakthrough Baseball, Football, or Skateboarding. And I tried many, many times on each game. And you can check my profile, I’m not a shitty gamer either.
 

Baseball knuckleballs are uncatchable in hits 12-15. Unless you are positioned perfect and react perfectly, I don’t know how you can get 15 catches without getting very lucky.

 

I have never gone past 50 yards to get a touchdown on wave 5. I’ve tried everything from trying to skip over them immediately to being reactive. Their patterns are unbearably unpredictable. 
 

Skateboarding, my best score was 2200. If I managed to do that perfectly three times in a row, I think I’d still fall short of the final trophy goal.

I regretted buying the games not because they gave me some easy trophies but because I couldn’t get them because of difficulty. How 90% of people can is beyond me. If I ever platinum them out of luck one day, I will wear them with honour.

 

I’m not against another leaderboard, but I am just cautious about making the sweeping generalizations about games that do in fact do something to gamers other than reward them with trophies, even if the stats don’t tell the qualitative narrative. 
 

It’s a biblical game that brought out a lot of demons. That is all. 

 

[AihaLoveleaf]

9 minutes ago, PalaceOfLove706 said:

For the record, and you can check my profile, I was unable to platinum Breakthrough Baseball, Football, or Skateboarding. And I tried many, many times on each game. And you can check my profile, I’m not a shitty gamer either.

With 257 URs and a WipEout HD Plat I will take your word for it. Admittedly I have played none of the Breakthrough games but assumed they must be trivial based on the completion percentages I was seeing. Did you check for any video guides yet? I imagine if the top levels of this game are really that hard then people must be using cheese tactics to pop the plat.

[Shua_J]

The developers are really starting to be immensely effected by the virus known as the "corporation". I completely view the entity of corporations as a means in which to suck the meaning out of anything. These groups aim to be as accessible as they can in order to maximize profit. In order to do that...they have to take the quality away from everything they touch. If they don't...it's not affordable to everybody. It's the same thing as difficulty in trophies. If everybody can't achieve it...it's therefor not maximizing profit. God forbid someone comes to the realization that they have some work to do in order to achieve something. It's a wrecking ball for standards. The easy trophies are undermining the core idea of an accomplishment. The notion of the trophy in general is going to go away directly because of this. It's meaningless shell will still be in tact...but it's actual meaning will be killed off. There's nowhere else for it to go in this kind of climate. The corporations goal is to reward mediocrity over and over...because that is the most profitable consumer type in an entertainment industry. Corporations are in two types of business: 1. Manufacturing and selling a product, products or service. 2. Shaping the perception of the consumer in order to create the most profitable climate for their sales. They have a built in need to actively antagonize and undermine standards in the individual. A skilled and knowledgeable society is a death sentence for todays corporations focusing on the widest markets possible and planned obsolescence.   

Let's be real for a minute...nobody who has been trophy hunting for any length of time is impressed in anyway by a profile that has 500 platinums and most all of them are stacks of 5 minute games outside of the dedication that it takes to build those numbers. There IS something to be said about that aspect. There are some exceptions of truly skilled stacked lists...but they are few and far between. The only people impressed by that number are flat out people who don't know any better and are borrowing from the old definition of platinum trophies being "hard" to achieve. That's it. That's the straight up truth.

Personally, I don't care if someone decides to elevate their stats by ez plats. Have at it and I hope you are having a blast doing it. For real. I've also been gaming since 1985 and pretty hard on and off since 1987 on consoles and P.C pending on my career demands. In my gaming today...I require there to be a very hard challenge and goals in a game. It's straight up to keep my interest. I've pretty much played most of the "huge" console titles in all of console history...and most of them pretty close to day/year 1. It takes a buttload for me to turn my head or even blink after that much controller time. Trophies for me are also a way to document what I've done. I also love what these developers have done, do today and what they're capable of doing...and trophies for me are a way to explore a game in ways I probably wouldn't normally have done. My normal stance is "use what works"...and these trophies take me outside of that comfort zone which is great and expands my skill sets a lot.

There is one thing I can say though...if you decide to go after the easy platinums and reward the market for doing so exclusively...that is what you are going to get...and you will eventually be completely killing off any actual meaning of a trophy and undermining your own lists....rendering your entire trophy hunting experience a devalued waste of time especially when they start hooking monkeys up to cybernetic brain implants and they start passing you in numbers when they're doing full stacks of My Name is Mayo 1 through 45 in the future. (See Elon Musks latest chimpanzee demo if you think this is hyperbole). 

[dieselmanchild]

4 hours ago, AihaLoveleaf said:

I believe there's a place in this hobby for easy trophies. In my opinion, though, a lot of these 1/10 games I'm seeing on the market right now should for the most part be 100% lists at best. Throw in a Gold trophy or two if you want but there's a lot of games right now that just shouldn't have Platinums. 

 

I just recently got my first taste of what it's like when you get a Platinum on a game that really challenged you to try harder and play more to improve. It's euphoric and I know what people mean now when they talk about how great they feel after conquering a game that's hard for them. I'm not getting on a high horse here and saying that all Platinums need to be hard, but there should be at least some time and effort involved. I'm thinking about the 3s or 5s that I've seen here as a bare minimum.

Great comment. Very well said an I couldn’t agree with you more. ?

 

I want to clarify my own views and say that I don’t actually have a problem with “easy” trophies at all. Like you, I believe there is a perfectly legitimate place for easy games to exist within this market. Not every platinum has to be one that pushes your skills and willpower to the limit. Sometimes a nice, easy or relaxing platinum is perfect for the occasion or simply suits the nature of the game you’re playing.
 

Telltale Games are a great example of this. In my personal opinion, they are fantastic, high quality narrative games. The easy trophy lists seem appropriate given the style of these games, and you still have to put some work in with a 10-12 hour time commitment at the very least. But the trophy list is mainly designed to ensure the player’s focus and attention is fully on the story & characters, so you get the best experience possible.

 

When I’m talking about “easy” games or “EzPz plats” as I usually call them, I’m referring to the trend we’ve seen where publishers are creating trophy lists that are specifically engineered to award the player the platinum trophy with the absolute least amount of effort required to do so. In many cases, the entire trophy list is unlocked within the first 30-60 minutes of gameplay and you aren’t even required to finish a full playthrough of the game to unlock the platinum.
 

To me, this is utterly ridiculous. I don’t necessarily even have a problem with these Ratalaika-type games existing. I think they also have a place in the PSN landscape like every other game. BUT - the majority of them should NOT have a platinum and 10+ rare gold trophies. They should be something more like a 100% only, or worth a handful of bronze trophies. Something that more accurately reflects the quality of the game. It’s just insulting when these games are stuffed with so many valuable trophies (golds/platinum), yet we have so many full length, AA or AAA quality games that have no platinum at all!

 

Also, when you add in the fact these publishers rampantly abuse the regional releases and make sure you can re-purchase and stack these games upwards of 8 times for 8 different platinums, you can see how this quickly becomes a huge problem that greatly affects every single one of us. THIS predatory business practice and rampant abuse/exploitation of the trophy system is what I really have a problem with, not “easy” games per se. We all love an easy game here & there. ?

[PalaceOfLove706]

1 hour ago, AihaLoveleaf said:

With 257 URs and a WipEout HD Plat I will take your word for it. Admittedly I have played none of the Breakthrough games but assumed they must be trivial based on the completion percentages I was seeing. Did you check for any video guides yet? I imagine if the top levels of this game are really that hard then people must be using cheese tactics to pop the plat.

Not aware of any strategies I’m missing, but playing it straight seems impossible. You make me want to do my research though haha because those games got my number. 

[Orenn16]

14 hours ago, PalaceOfLove706 said:

Not aware of any strategies I’m missing, but playing it straight seems impossible. You make me want to do my research though haha because those games got my number. 

There are definitely cheese strats. Baseball, for example, throws the same pattern of balls at you every time if you boot the game fresh after losing. In other words, if you miss a knuckleball, remember where it landed and what number of throw it was, restart the game by closing it completely, try again. Doing this a few times will net you that 15 run easily. I can’t remember footballs cheese but it has something like that too if I recall. 

[PalaceOfLove706]

47 minutes ago, Orenn16 said:

There are definitely cheese strats. Baseball, for example, throws the same pattern of balls at you every time if you boot the game fresh after losing. In other words, if you miss a knuckleball, remember where it landed and what number of throw it was, restart the game by closing it completely, try again. Doing this a few times will net you that 15 run easily. I can’t remember footballs cheese but it has something like that too if I recall. 

Thanks, totally got the baseball plat by running the youtube video of the pattern as I played. I'll take it. As for football, the cheese is there's a way to start on Wave 5 from the beginning. Did that, and got the plat, not because of of any further tips but because I got, once, an exceptionally easy pattern. Lol, I'll take that too. As for Skateboarding, I'll let that one be!

[KimmysGotGame]

21 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Even on PSNP, (historically the most egalitarian and non-elitist of the trophy sites,)

 

I'm sorry, but are we talking about the same PSNP? This site has historically been the most elitist trophy site, barely edging out psntl.

[DrBloodmoney]

5 minutes ago, KimmysGotGame said:

I'm sorry, but are we talking about the same PSNP? This site has historically been the most elitist trophy site, barely edging out psntl.

 

i'm surprised to hear you say that - that hasn't been my experience, although I suppose I never really gave context for why I said that though - 

• Here, for example, hiding trophies is allowed, whereas on some other sites, that is an instant removal from leaderboards.
• PSNP has generally resisted any call to create specific leaderboards for rarity or completionism, where other sites do, and has avoided putting any kind of "average game difficulty" stat on the profile pages to 'shame' players of easy games.
• it allows cheaters several strikes before removal and allows them a chance to hide trophies to avoid removal

that was my thinking there - though it sounds like you might have some experiences in other areas that make you feel different?

[KimmysGotGame]

2 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

i'm surprised to hear you say that - that hasn't been my experience, although I suppose I never really gave context for why I said that though - 

• Here, for example, hiding trophies is allowed, whereas on some other sites, that is an instant removal from leaderboards.
• PSNP has generally resisted any call to create specific leaderboards for rarity or completionism, where other sites do, and has avoided putting any kind of "average game difficulty" stat on the profile pages to 'shame' players of easy games.
• it allows cheaters several strikes before removal and allows them a chance to hide trophies to avoid removal

that was my thinking there - though it sounds like you might have some experiences in other areas that make you feel different?

My point of reference was from the community rather than site management/staff. The community of this site has been the most elitist for at least the past 6 years. In the past this site did have an average game difficulty stat on the profile page (archived page showing it) but it was removed with the most recent site update because people in the community used it to make elitist comment about other people's profiles. The stat still shows in the stats page but there was less prominent elitism about it on the forums when the change was made.

[DrBloodmoney]

4 minutes ago, KimmysGotGame said:

My point of reference was from the community rather than site management/staff. The community of this site has been the most elitist for at least the past 6 years. In the past this site did have an average game difficulty stat on the profile page (archived page showing it) but it was removed with the most recent site update because people in the community used it to make elitist comment about other people's profiles. The stat still shows in the stats page but there was less prominent elitism about it on the forums when the change was made.

 

Ah, yes, well - I kind of agree with you there - that's pretty much the crux of my argument that we are headed for some kind of change - that the sites themselves are leaning more egalitarian, but a larger and larger swathe of the community is becoming more aggressively 'elitist', and sooner or later, that is going to either tip the current sites into a much more elitist phase, or spark the introduction of a new site that does.

 

You know - Ive been here since before that screenshot was taken - I guess I forgot the profiles used to have that on the front page ?

Edited April 19, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[Arcesius]

 

Quote

I’m beginning to feel that soon, there will be changes to the way these sites actually cater to trophy hunting. 

It feels inevitable that the way in which profiles are tracked will begin to change dramatically in the next few years, and I am starting to worry that having too many ‘easy’ games will end up with my profile being excluded from whatever leaderboards exist in the future entirely. 

 

Whether it happens on the existing sites, as a result of the crescendoing push for alterations to the leaderboards, or if the existing sites stagnate, and some new player enters the scene, I do not know, but I feel like - based on the number of threads requesting change - if some new site did pop up, that offered the same levels of service as the current ones, but excluded anyone with too high a percentage of easy games, or discounted stacks, or required a certain rarity percentage for inclusion, it would immediately siphon off users from the existing sites at an alarming rate.

 

First of all, I appreciate that you really do seem to take your time in trying to explain the best you can what you feel and why

 

But I believe you are going a bit far with your fears. First of all, there exist already many subgroups within this community. UR hunters know each other, go hang in eachothers streams or boost together. We have plenty of events catering to different types of hunters (backlog-cleanups, UR events, lowering completion, etc...), and usually you will find like-minded people commenting on Trophy Checklists. The Leaderboard is one of the things that attracts players to PSNP, but it is not the only one. 

 

Now, as far as I'm aware, people are not demanding change in the sense of a cataclysm. They are not demanding that the current state be void, and that a new system should be used going forward. SOME people are simply asking for more inclusiveness in the form of multiple leaderboards. I think that's fair, and I think that would be beneficial for this site.

 

Now the important bit... I don't think anyone is in favor of exclusion going forward. Profiles will not be excluded from participating in events or leaderboards. I have yet to come across a larger group of like-minded people here on PSNP that are in favor of excluding certain types of profiles from any activity or statistic alltogether. Maybe there is a second, third, fourth leaderboard on which some of your games just don't contribute as much, or anything at all? Don't see a problem with that. 

 

 

As for me personally... And I know this should not be another Rata-bash thread, I have stated multiple times that I don't care about leaderboards and my placement on them. I don't care about easy games per se, I just choose not to play Rata games because I have yet to see one that seems to be one of the better games in its respective genre, and because I personally play games to challenge myself. However, I have a problem with the constant video-guide spam, trophy-thoughs threads and new 6-stack releases cluttering the "new releases" page. That's what I personally complain about. 

 

One game, one trophy list, one game-forum. That would solve all my issues. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Arcesius

[Orenn16]

4 hours ago, PalaceOfLove706 said:

Thanks, totally got the baseball plat by running the youtube video of the pattern as I played. I'll take it. As for football, the cheese is there's a way to start on Wave 5 from the beginning. Did that, and got the plat, not because of of any further tips but because I got, once, an exceptionally easy pattern. Lol, I'll take that too. As for Skateboarding, I'll let that one be!

Skateboarding isn’t bad either! I just knocked it out yesterday. I struggled until I found a tip that saved me.

 

Basically, front flip at the start of every run for some free points. Then, front flip at every trapezoid ramp thing, and backflip on everything else (triangle, ramp, etc) and you’ll get the score needed. There’s a small amount of luck involved as to what kinds of ramps you’ll get, but after four attempts using that method, I got the 7000! 
 

Of course, with no platinum trophy I can totally see if you just wanna let this one slide, haha

[DoomsdayVivi]

I'm probably not the target audience of your post, but I've been using trophies more as a collectible for series that I love. As you can tell by my username, I love Final Fantasy, so I made it a mission to get all FF Platinums which are largely rewarding lists in my experience. I'm working on Assassin's Creed now, but I also have all MGS, most Kingdom Hearts, Fallouts, etc. My trophy list is more a love letter to games I enjoy than anything competitive, because the lack of quality assurance in trophies means you will have to play garbage to make any progress on the leaderboard. My life is too busy to play bull shit games (It took me 3 months to platinum AC3 remaster recently...being a teacher during Covid is not fun) just to move up on a leaderboard that is a farce.

 

Weird analogy, but the upcoming Olympics have been on my mind. Imagine if they let people compete in different length races simultaneously. So you'd have a mile runner going against 100m dasher. Would anyone care that the 100m runner won the gold? Wouldn't it be silly to compare them in the first place? 

[AJ_Radio]

Interesting thread. There are definitely some philosophic views on trophy hunting being discussed here.

 

On 4/18/2021 at 11:22 AM, dieselmanchild said:

However, I do kind of like this idea of a leaderboard apocalypse. If there is going to be any sort of major shift in thinking or a fracture in the community in the near future, I think it would be really cool to see the rise of a sub-community that caters to real trophy hunters who are dedicated to the old ways. The current leaderboards and the nature of competitive trophy hunting has become a bit of a joke and it would just be really nice to be part of a community of likeminded trophy hunters to motivate and challenge one another. Because I know there are still tons of these types of players out there, and a lot of them have become my good friends on PSN.

 

As for the current state of PlayStation trophy hunting, I believe things will only get worse. There is too much money at stake and to be frank, Sony doesn’t give a flying fuck about trophies or this community. If there is any sort of change to be had, or a shift in player’s mentality of what it means to be a trophy hunter, it is up to us as a community to figure that out.

 

I guess you mean the real trophy hunters are the ones who play actual games and work hard to achieve them? There's still plenty of them around, they're just not ranked high on the leaderboards.

 

Crap sells, and Sony is fully on board with it. For every decent game that gets a trophy list on this website there are at least two to five shitty games that get trophy lists. It's basically Steam now. Lots of great games, but you have to weed through the trash to find that gem. That's just how it is anymore.

 

On 4/18/2021 at 11:52 AM, AihaLoveleaf said:

I just recently got my first taste of what it's like when you get a Platinum on a game that really challenged you to try harder and play more to improve. It's euphoric and I know what people mean now when they talk about how great they feel after conquering a game that's hard for them. I'm not getting on a high horse here and saying that all Platinums need to be hard, but there should be at least some time and effort involved. I'm thinking about the 3s or 5s that I've seen here as a bare minimum.

 

Unfortunately, I think things are only going to get worse from here. Usually, once a ranking system falls into the degeneracy of easy climbing it doesn't easily come out of that. It was one thing for people to get the trophy stacks on Ratalaika games, but now we have Breakthrough Gaming Arcade games adding to their library by the week. I am mostly okay with Ratalaika's games, but Breakthrough's games are personally where I have to draw the line. Their games, from what I have seen, are totally devoid of any artistic style and effort into fleshing out at least a barely decent gameplay experience. You're basically trading one dollar or one euro for a Platinum trophy, which I know can be said about Ratalaika too, but at least the developers of the games Ratalika published put some effort into artwork and gameplay, for the most part at least.

 

TellTale Games is fine, because they still make you play through the game even though they are piss easy. Stuff like Breakthrough Gaming Arcade is purely trophy whore bait. Even My Name is Mayo 2 had more care and effort put into the graphics and actual gameplay.

 

We shouldn't reward developers who aren't willing to put in the time and effort. Breakthrough Gaming Arcade is just a quick money maker and nothing more.

 

On 4/18/2021 at 0:32 PM, dieselmanchild said:

I don’t see how there aren’t more “elitists” though. I mean like you’ve alluded to, this whole trend has gotten so out of control so quickly that it’s getting impossible for anybody to ignore. Trophy hunting doesn’t even remotely resemble the same thing it did just a few years ago. Even some of the biggest offenders (ex. multiple top pagers) are openly complaining about how much they despise this trend and the way it has eroded the fabric of this hobby they loved, or how they feel obligated to focus all their efforts on shitty games just to maintain their ranks and stay competitive.

 

Look at a guy like Hakoom for example. I don’t mean to single him out, but I like him, he’s a legend in this community and a perfect example of this. The guy was hunting himself into an early grave and constantly railing against being forced to play shitty games he hated, and seemed very exhausted and unhappy with his habits and the toll it was taking on him to maintain rank 1.

At some point he seemed to finally stop giving a shit for whatever reason and gave up his rank 1 status in order to start focusing a lot more energy on playing games that excited him or challenged him, and to work on other projects like his YouTube channel etc. It seems he began to rediscover the whole spirit of why he began trophy hunting in the first place, and the guy seems SO much happier these days because of it. He still balances some crappy platinums into the equation of course, but he’s playing more for himself these days rather than chasing meaningless, arbitrary numbers on his profile, and I’m really happy for him.

 

I had Unknown_v2_0 PM me several months ago saying he was going to quit trophy hunting. He is currently rank 13 on the world leaderboards:

 

https://psnprofiles.com/Unknown_v2_0

 

I didn't ask him to PM me or anything, he just PMed me to let me know he appreciated the stance I took on trophy hunting. I heard him, Hakoom and Roughdawg4 in an interview on YouTube, I believe Corndog hosted it.

 

Hasn't played in six months now in regards to trophies. And I honestly don't blame him for quitting.

 

Hakoom taking a different stance was a bit of a surprise for me, I saw him play some actual challenging games on his profile. And I will admit, he has done a lot of impressive stuff, but over 90 percent of his profile is simply junk. You have to stack junk upon junk to ever get on the top leaderboards, which is something I will never do because I don't have the time and money to do it. Also I just find it boring.

 

On 4/18/2021 at 4:18 PM, Shua_J said:

The developers are really starting to be immensely effected by the virus known as the "corporation". I completely view the entity of corporations as a means in which to suck the meaning out of anything. These groups aim to be as accessible as they can in order to maximize profit. In order to do that...they have to take the quality away from everything they touch. If they don't...it's not affordable to everybody. It's the same thing as difficulty in trophies. If everybody can't achieve it...it's therefor not maximizing profit. God forbid someone comes to the realization that they have some work to do in order to achieve something. It's a wrecking ball for standards. The easy trophies are undermining the core idea of an accomplishment. The notion of the trophy in general is going to go away directly because of this. It's meaningless shell will still be in tact...but it's actual meaning will be killed off. There's nowhere else for it to go in this kind of climate. The corporations goal is to reward mediocrity over and over...because that is the most profitable consumer type in an entertainment industry. Corporations are in two types of business: 1. Manufacturing and selling a product, products or service. 2. Shaping the perception of the consumer in order to create the most profitable climate for their sales. They have a built in need to actively antagonize and undermine standards in the individual. A skilled and knowledgeable society is a death sentence for todays corporations focusing on the widest markets possible and planned obsolescence.  

 

That's practically everything these days. Dumbing down the masses is one of their tactics. That is why I gave up on Hollywood a long time ago. Modern mainstream music went down the shitter because corporations decided to get mediocre performers all the promotions and marketing, because it's easier than to spend years on a performer fine tuning their talents. Selena Gomez, Kesha, Kayne West, Justin Beiber. People who automatically think these performers care about the quality and art in their work is a complete lie, because I will just spit in their faces. Journalism and the media itself have also been tarnished. You're not getting quality news from MSNBC or Fox News, it's all propaganda bullshit and bold faced lies.

 

I have a number of difficult 100 percent only PSN titles that most people here just skip over because there is no platinum at the end. Super Stardust HD and Crazy Taxi are more difficult than practically anything Ratalaika Games has pumped out and even modern AAA games. But I loved those old PSN games, they were both a challenge and I had a blast.

 

Thank you for the comment. Probably the best one written on this thread.

 

23 hours ago, dieselmanchild said:

To me, this is utterly ridiculous. I don’t necessarily even have a problem with these Ratalaika-type games existing. I think they also have a place in the PSN landscape like every other game. BUT - the majority of them should NOT have a platinum and 10+ rare gold trophies. They should be something more like a 100% only, or worth a handful of bronze trophies. Something that more accurately reflects the quality of the game. It’s just insulting when these games are stuffed with so many valuable trophies (golds/platinum), yet we have so many full length, AA or AAA quality games that have no platinum at all!

 

Also, when you add in the fact these publishers rampantly abuse the regional releases and make sure you can re-purchase and stack these games upwards of 8 times for 8 different platinums, you can see how this quickly becomes a huge problem that greatly affects every single one of us. THIS predatory business practice and rampant abuse/exploitation of the trophy system is what I really have a problem with, not “easy” games per se. We all love an easy game here & there.

 

I thought the end of Vita stacks would solve a problem, but those guys are now putting numerous stacks behind region stacks. So you can still stack multiple times if you have the money and patience to make "fake" region accounts for the PS4.

 

The trophy hunters are their only audience, and we're rewarding them for crap.

 

7 hours ago, Arcesius said:

As for me personally... And I know this should not be another Rata-bash thread, I have stated multiple times that I don't care about leaderboards and my placement on them. I don't care about easy games per se, I just choose not to play Rata games because I have yet to see one that seems to be one of the better games in its respective genre, and because I personally play games to challenge myself. However, I have a problem with the constant video-guide spam, trophy-thoughs threads and new 6-stack releases cluttering the "new releases" page. That's what I personally complain about. 

 

One game, one trophy list, one game-forum. That would solve all my issues. 

 

Hollow Knight I imagine would of had a lot less people playing on this website were it not for the exploit. Which is a shame, because too many people want the easy way out.

Edited April 19, 2021 by AJ_Radio