BryceJ75

Backwards Compatibility: Would it ever be possible?

48 posts in this topic

11 minutes ago, OmegaRejectz said:

PS Now being offered to those who couldn't be bothered, doesn't work as an argument because it's offered to so few territories. It's actually baffling how many people can't access PS Now. And that's completely disregarding the fact that most people, in 2021, still don't have good enough internet to use PS Now.

I have good internet by todays' standards and PS Now still doesn't work well! So I agree, game streaming isn't practical yet.

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20 hours ago, Gaberdude said:

If a five-year old PC can do PS3 emulation with a 3rd party emulator, a PS5 could easily emulate PS3 games with a 1st party emulator. The hardest part is just getting Sony to want to do that...

I love my PS5 but my 5 year old computer is still more powerful than my PS5.

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56 minutes ago, BryceJ75 said:

I have good internet by todays' standards and PS Now still doesn't work well! So I agree, game streaming isn't practical yet.

Luckily for me, I've been able to play GOW: Ascension & The Wolf Among Us via streaming, without an ethernet too. Issue is, for 99%+ of people, even with good internet the service still isn't practical. PS Now is trying to exist when everything around it won't work well with it.

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1 hour ago, OmegaRejectz said:

PS Now being offered to those who couldn't be bothered, doesn't work as an argument because it's offered to so few territories. It's actually baffling how many people can't access PS Now. And that's completely disregarding the fact that most people, in 2021, still don't have good enough internet to use PS Now.

Respectfully disagree.  

 

PS Now may only be offered to a few territories but those territories include: Europe (including Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and the United Kingdom), Japan, and the United States.  With the exception of Japan, these are monster territories clearly with the majority of the gamers supporting Playstation.  I'm sure there's millions of potential customers in the other territories but I'm guessing the ones that have the most reliable internet are the territories available.  I'm sure there are exceptions but Sony wouldn't exclude the other territories just because they wanted to.  It would either be a legal reason or they feel the territory wouldn't be worth the server infrastructure to support the service.

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22 hours ago, Gaberdude said:

If a five-year old PC can do PS3 emulation with a 3rd party emulator, a PS5 could easily emulate PS3 games with a 1st party emulator. The hardest part is just getting Sony to want to do that...

 

Well a 5 year old PC can only run 50% of the games on PS3 and even then the performance ranges from 1fps to 50fps. That's acceptable for thieves and pirates. 
People that are paying Sony would expect way better. 

PC gets away with lots of stuff because people are OKAY with getting whatever they can for free even if they get more bugs and problems from it.

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I'll check my privilege and acknowledge that I have four PS3s on which to run my games for potentially decades. I doubt we'll ever get PS3 emulation on PS5, but some PS2 and PS1 titles are possible. There's a lot of misinformation going around still with a lot of people boasting of their shiny Xbox Series X (which they probably bought from a scalper at a huge markup so they feel extra inclined to defend such a costly purchase) having 100% BC with the previous consoles, or that every BC game gets suped-up which is just not true in the slightest. Sony have proven in the past that they do, in fact, listen to their consumer base so if the noise gets loud enough I can see some PS1 and PS2 games getting the BC treatment. I probably won't use it very much at all since in my view with older games it's a CRT or nothing, just as the gods intended.

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12 hours ago, BGriff1986 said:

I’m not sure I’d class having to own 3 separate (and aging) consoles as “easier”. Yes, it’s the best option we have right now, but if somebody offered me the chance to have one box that does it all I’d jump at the chance

 

That's if the one box does do it *all* though. All it takes is one game/feature not being compatible, and you need the old console around anyway. And you also need to take into account the extra storage requirements to accommodate multiple generations of games.

 

Just as an example - I don't use backwards compatibility on my PS2 because it doesn't support my multi-page PS1 memory card.

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4 hours ago, TJ_Solo said:

 

Well a 5 year old PC can only run 50% of the games on PS3 and even then the performance ranges from 1fps to 50fps. That's acceptable for thieves and pirates. 
People that are paying Sony would expect way better. 

PC gets away with lots of stuff because people are OKAY with getting whatever they can for free even if they get more bugs and problems from it.

50FPS? That’s literally 20 more FPS at the minimum compared to a majority of PS3 & PS4 games. Yes, obviously if you’re getting 3FPS that’s ridiculous. But Dead by Daylight runs horribly on PS4 & is still being sold, and there’s tons of PS3 games that run like fucking garbage and yet are still sold.

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16 hours ago, BGriff1986 said:

I’m not sure I’d class having to own 3 separate (and aging) consoles as “easier”. Yes, it’s the best option we have right now, but if somebody offered me the chance to have one box that does it all I’d jump at the chance

 

A decent PC and a PS5 is what you need then, Expensive and no trophies I guess. I understand your point tbh, I'm the other end of the spectrum and want everything. I really am a "real hardware" kind of guy, I bought an extra slim ps3 in Japan last January just so I can play my Japanese PS1 games legit.

 

My PC cost a fortune tbh and It's not something for everyone. I do like your idea but for the time being it's a no go.

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Two things which give a sliver of hope:

  1. GPU. During the PS5's R&D years, Sony had an Nvidia engineer visit where they were working on the PS5. It was never stated why an Nvidia guy was there, despite this console (PlayStation 5) using AMD parts for the GPU and CPU. Why this is pertinent? The PS3's GPU, the RSX - was an Nvidia component.
  2. CPU. Sony's Tempest solution is a queer one. During the PS5 presentation, Mark Cerny started off on the premise that the PS3's CELL was an "absolute beast" when it came to audio processing, better than the PS4's pathetic Jaguar clusters. He said in the PS5, (this is where it gets queer) they took a Ryzen core and modified its architecture to that of the PS3's CELL SPU. I find this strange from an engineering perspective because an unmodified Ryzen core would have been more than enough to be up to the task. In fact, leaving it in its natural PC arch would make it more straightforward for audio engineers to work with. Changing the architecture of a computational chip doesn't really change its throughput computational capacity. Those limitations are defined by the hard edges of the hardware itself, and that is the Ryzen core. What Mark did change with this Ryzen core, was how the code would be processed. Like that of a CELL's SPUs.
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Uhm, just on a side note: Microsoft's BC programme is completely different from what PS2 offers in terms of PS1 games.  You don't actually play the game once bought digitally or on disc but rather an adjusted version downloaded from the Microsoft store. The disc only acts as a license key.

 

But the actual question was if it's possible. Of course it's possible. If hobby programmers are able to code a somwhat  functional emulator for PC, imagine what the actual platform holder would be able to do. But it's not gonna happen. Barely anyone uses BC functionality. I currently have about 50 people in my friends list on XBL. Twice I've seen anyone play something released on Xbox 360. Twice! In over a year!

 

Have a look at this picture:

 

Spoiler

unbenannt2xwkyt.png

 

216 current players for the most played PS3 only game. That's pathetic!

 

People demanding stuff like this wouldn't use it anyway. It's just a loud minority. Probably the same fucking minority that puts pronouns in their Twitter bio and demanded Shenmue III for two decades (which became the worst selling title in the series).

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1 hour ago, Z1MZUM said:

 

A decent PC and a PS5 is what you need then, Expensive and no trophies I guess. I understand your point tbh, I'm the other end of the spectrum and want everything. I really am a "real hardware" kind of guy, I bought an extra slim ps3 in Japan last January just so I can play my Japanese PS1 games legit.

 

My PC cost a fortune tbh and It's not something for everyone. I do like your idea but for the time being it's a no go.

Nope, it isn’t. Cos a PC and PS5 is two boxes

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1 minute ago, BGriff1986 said:

Nope, it isn’t. Cos a PC and PS5 is two boxes

 

You will never get what you want then. It will never exist.

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Just now, Z1MZUM said:

 

You will never get what you want then. It will never exist.

Thanks for clarifying what I already knew! ;)

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Just now, BGriff1986 said:

Thanks for clarifying what I already knew! ;)

 

So you post for validation, good for you.

 

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5 minutes ago, Z1MZUM said:

 

So you post for validation, good for you.

 

No, my original comment still stands when it comes to the question of backwards compatibility - one box that does it all *is* easier than multiple boxes do it across them.

 

Is that technologically possible? Absolutely. Is it likely to happen? Probably not. But would it be less hassle than having multiple devices gathering dust? 100%

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I would love to have PS3 Backward Compatability. I already had a PS3 die on me and my current PS3 is damaged (broken body cover from botched removal and broken HDMI) but functions normally. 

 

Having a PS5 with PS3 Compatability would put my troubles to rest. My PS3 game collection is still bigger than my PS4 collection, only my PS2 game collection beats it.

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On 4/21/2021 at 7:27 PM, Stan Lee said:

Sony have proven in the past that they do, in fact, listen to their consumer base so if the noise gets loud enough I can see some PS1 and PS2 games getting the BC treatment.

So how's that BC of PS3 games on PS4 working out that everyone asked for the entire PS4 generation?

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1 minute ago, mcnichoj said:

So how's that BC of PS3 games on PS4 working out that everyone asked for the entire PS4 generation?

 

Cute that you think you did something here.

Enlighten me as to how that would have been possible. It wasn't, regardless of how many wanted it (and 120 million unit sales show it wasn't much of a deal-breaker, eh?). Everybody and their mothers know that Sony screwed themselves with the PS3's architecture. It wouldn't have been possible, no matter how much asking and begging was done. Still difficult to get PS3 games running properly on PC emulators. Possible with future technology? Perhaps. But in any case, don't come at me with this preschool-level stuff, okay?

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2 minutes ago, Stan Lee said:

 

Cute that you think you did something here.

Enlighten me as to how that would have been possible. It wasn't, regardless of how many wanted it (and 120 million unit sales show it wasn't much of a deal-breaker, eh?). Everybody and their mothers know that Sony screwed themselves with the PS3's architecture. It wouldn't have been possible, no matter how much asking and begging was done. Still difficult to get PS3 games running properly on PC emulators. Possible with future technology? Perhaps. But in any case, don't come at me with this preschool-level stuff, okay?

What about all those PSX games that were BC on PS4?

I'd mention PS2 but we all know what happened there, much like with anything Sony does that doesn't make them money hand over fist they cut it off at the knees. They had finished games that they didn't even bother uploading to the digital store.

 

The current Sony doesn't care about any serious endeavors into BC. PS5 is currently selling at a faster rate than PS4. So I guess just like it wasn't a deal breaker then, it still isn't a deal breaker now.

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On 4/22/2021 at 9:27 AM, Stan Lee said:

I'll check my privilege and acknowledge that I have four PS3s on which to run my games for potentially decades. I doubt we'll ever get PS3 emulation on PS5, but some PS2 and PS1 titles are possible. There's a lot of misinformation going around still with a lot of people boasting of their shiny Xbox Series X (which they probably bought from a scalper at a huge markup so they feel extra inclined to defend such a costly purchase) having 100% BC with the previous consoles, or that every BC game gets suped-up which is just not true in the slightest. Sony have proven in the past that they do, in fact, listen to their consumer base so if the noise gets loud enough I can see some PS1 and PS2 games getting the BC treatment. I probably won't use it very much at all since in my view with older games it's a CRT or nothing, just as the gods intended.

 

My series X is legit non scalp and the backwards compatibility is it's strongest point. Some BC games have indeed been enhanced back to 360 but that's not really a sales point, Owning the Series X is more like a 360 replacement except why the F  Tenchu Z and the Saboteur aren't BC is just insane. I'll say one thing, no reason for me to get the new re-release of Mass effect so the series x has a few pluses. 

 

I am in the same boat and oddly also have 4 fully functional PS3's and I'd rather play their games on the actual PS3. I just forget that the 2 Japanese consoles have reverse X/O but whatever, I love these machines and one of them is literally a life saver from early pandemic.

 

For sure, Sony does listen and has recently. I wonder though, I'd love to see some more Vita ports on ps4/5. Ps1 and 2 makes more sense then Ps3, the hardware is expensive to upgrade for modern tv's and god is not always right, most of us probably don't have a CRT.

 

 

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I fully understand a point to not sell those games, because some companies don't exists any more and some licences not worth of restoring, and this close up the case by simple fact - BC has no profit for Sony. What they actually could, they did.

 

Big wish on them to have a little interest in me inserting PS1 or 2 disk into PS5 and play it, literally for nothing in return, but happiness of a customer:). And I'm that guy who will try to play Driv3r, yes, and other Obscure games on it, an irony...

Edited by Bloodytears1666
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Ps1 and Ps2 games run pretty good on Xbox series X/S, I have been playing PSP tenchu games on it recently. Add an old version of Cronus Max or titan and a DS3 for added authenticity. Yeah Sony doesn't care enough and I doubt would add a dev mode. 

 

Edit: I love the tenchu and shinobido series, Luckily the vita has 2 shinobido games though here in Aus there are no PSP tenchu games in the store for Vita. Sure I have a PC that out performs my consoles but I prefer console. I'm all for the PS5 to have PS1 and 2 BC but we need to be realistic about PS3 and it's complicated hardware. As we can still buy PS3's pretty Cheap and they still look great on modern TV's, surely we can sacrifice this one situation. I also have a PS2 with a 500gb HDD and component, it runs great.

Edited by Z1MZUM
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