Ancestral_Spirit

These games made me realise that i don't like Sonic games anymore.

25 posts in this topic

Growing up i was a big Sonic The Hedgehog fan. I used to collect the plushies, watch the tv shows and play all the games.

 

But playing Sonic 4 episode 1 and 2 has made me realise that as a child, i think i liked Sonic cos he was cool looking, bright and colourful and the games went fast.

Now i can't bring myself to enjoy the games at all.

 

Unfair bosses, insta kill drops, terrible collision detection, slow ass camera, dodgy controls, the list goes on.

It just make me really sad to think of it all this way, because i still love the character designs and the TV shows etc, but the games really are broken messes, which is especially more noticeable as an adult who has played a multitude of games, that take the Sonic formula and make it better. Whereas SEGA have no idea how to improve the formula, and just continue to push out more games with all the same glaring issues.

 

My partner and i played episode 2 together, and that was about all that made that game fun. The rest of the games is just me going through the motions of trying to finish it, just to say that i'd finished it, rather than to play it to enjoy it and feel that sense of accomplishment you get when you finish something you truly enjoy.

 

If this wasn't the best place to post this topic, mods feel free to move it, i just couldn't find anywhere else to put this....... well, rant  xD

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Just now, BGriff1986 said:

The Sonic 4 titles are not a good litmus test for whether you still like Sonic 1f602.png

 

If you truly want to see if you’ve fallen out of love with the Blue Blur, go have a look at Mania

 

Oh no i completely understand that in terms of Sonic games, these ones are considered some of the worst ones.

But by God if they make me not wanna play them in general.

The really strange thing is i even remember enjoying Sonic Heroes and even....... Shadow The Hedgehog! But now that i'm looking back at the Sonic games, there really is nothing in them besides speed and pretty colours. 

 

I own Sonic Mania physically, and i will get around to it at some point, but these 2 titles have really left a sour taste in my mouth. Currently i'm trying to do the Oil level boss in Sonic 4 episode 2 as super sonic. But for the first 7/8ths of the fight, you can't get hit in order to keep enough rings to give him that one last hit as super sonic for the trophy to count. Decisions like this utterly baffle me!

 

We're going to let you unlock God Mode by doing really difficult challenges, so you can feel rewarded for doing said difficult challenges.

Now don't get hit for this entire fight, and then you can use your God Mode for the final hit!

So why are you giving me the option of a God Mode in this fight at all, if i have to play well enough to never be hit in the first place?!

>.< 

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Ah c’mon, you made it through Untouchable. When it comes to A Golden Wave you got dis! 😉

 

I totally get what you mean, though. If you’re going for the trophies there are frustrating elements in both games.

 

To be fair, Mania also suffers in that regard. But it’s a more substantial main game so you don’t turn to the grind of the trophy hunting quite so quickly

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Posted (edited)

17 minutes ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

 

Oh no i completely understand that in terms of Sonic games, these ones are considered some of the worst ones.

But by God if they make me not wanna play them in general.

The really strange thing is i even remember enjoying Sonic Heroes and even....... Shadow The Hedgehog! But now that i'm looking back at the Sonic games, there really is nothing in them besides speed and pretty colours. 

 

I own Sonic Mania physically, and i will get around to it at some point, but these 2 titles have really left a sour taste in my mouth. Currently i'm trying to do the Oil level boss in Sonic 4 episode 2 as super sonic. But for the first 7/8ths of the fight, you can't get hit in order to keep enough rings to give him that one last hit as super sonic for the trophy to count. Decisions like this utterly baffle me!

 

We're going to let you unlock God Mode by doing really difficult challenges, so you can feel rewarded for doing said difficult challenges.

Now don't get hit for this entire fight, and then you can use your God Mode for the final hit!

So why are you giving me the option of a God Mode in this fight at all, if i have to play well enough to never be hit in the first place?!

>.< 


It's a shame Sonic 4 is the way it is, being given the big title of "Sonic 4", making it seem like a successor to the original trilogy. I found episode 2 to be alright at best, but ep 1 just reused ideas from Sonic 1 and 2 and lacked any real originality. Ever since 2010, Sonic Team has been playing it way too safe. The trophies can be a bit tricky for ep 2, but seeing as you have the Untouchable trophy from ep 1, I'd say you've got the trickiest stuff out of the way at least.

However... judging the series as a whole based on Sonic 4 alone isn't the best, as that game really doesn't leave a good impression of the series I believe. I still have faith in this series, and I do have hope for it seeing how Mania was officially released by Sega. I fully agree with BGriff1986, I really do implore that you at least try out Mania especially since you have it. It's a game that was made with love and passion; It was headed by Christian Whitehead, the man behind the ports to Sonic 2 and CD, and was given the task of forming a crew to make a new 2D Sonic which is far better than Sonic 4. The guy knows his stuff and it truly shines through the game, it's a blast to play and has some great talent put into it. There's so many great twists on older levels and actually innovates them with new ideas rather than the copy-paste mentality of Sonic 4, along with actually adding some brilliant new levels and specials stages. The bosses are also a lot more fair which seems to be one of your gripes with 4.

I also recommend Sonic Adventure 2 as well, one of the best 3D Sonic games of all time in my opinion.
I believe there are 2 big factors with how Sonic games used to be; exploration and momentum. With SA1 and SA2, Sonic's gameplay is a great exemplification of the philosophy the original trilogy had which is using your built up speed to reach new areas and secrets; you can perform really cool shortcuts and tricks with his spindash, and you can approach each stage in an entirely different approach with how versatile he can move, and Knuckles emphasizes the idea of exploration since he can traverse areas of stages that Sonic can't reach and even has his own set of unique levels in SA2. It can be a bit tricky finding each master emerald shard but you can use hints which can give you a good idea. There's so much more to these older games that I feel Sonic 4 just doesn't have. SA2 also got the characters right as well. I feel as though the Shadow we have today is just an edgy Vegeta clone, which is weird since Shadow was never like that. His entire motive in SA2 was fulfilling the wish of his best friend, and upon finding out she wanted him to be a companion to humanity, he sacrificed his own life to save the Earth. He's a really compassionate character at the end of the story and SA2 had so much depth in it that the newer games just lack.

Do give these games a go, they're really great unlike Sonic 4.

Edited by Shrooba
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1 minute ago, BGriff1986 said:

Ah c’mon, you made it through Untouchable. When it comes to A Golden Wave you got dis! 1f609.png

 

I totally get what you mean, though. If you’re going for the trophies there are frustrating elements in both games.

 

To be fair, Mania also suffers in that regard. But it’s a more substantial main game so you don’t turn to the grind of the trophy hunting quite so quickly

 

I'm gonna be honest here, i had to get my bf to do that one for me, because i got so frustrated with it i was on the verge of breaking my PS3 pad  xD

I literally had to go out for a walk at 3am, because i just needed to get away from the playstation at that point it was frustrating me that much.

I don't ask him to do trophies for me in general because i lose that sense of accomplishment for myself when he has to do it for me, but for that particular trophy i just needed it gone and out of the way.

The sheer amount of times i got to the last section and either got killed by the pitfall on the very last hit, or that stupid temple boss where if you hit Eggman with your spin dash it bounces you back into a pillar and you're insta killed, was just aneurism inducing!

 

But yeah, bar the co op parts (obviously) i'd like to do the second game completely by myself, but that oil boss is really pushing my buttons at this point  :/

 

God i hope Mania is better, but i think after this game, i'll step away from Sonic for a little while and go play something that is going to give me a full on brain bleed  xD

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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

 

I'm gonna be honest here, i had to get my bf to do that one for me, because i got so frustrated with it i was on the verge of breaking my PS3 pad  xD

I literally had to go out for a walk at 3am, because i just needed to get away from the playstation at that point it was frustrating me that much.

I don't ask him to do trophies for me in general because i lose that sense of accomplishment for myself when he has to do it for me, but for that particular trophy i just needed it gone and out of the way.

The sheer amount of times i got to the last section and either got killed by the pitfall on the very last hit, or that stupid temple boss where if you hit Eggman with your spin dash it bounces you back into a pillar and you're insta killed, was just aneurism inducing!

 

But yeah, bar the co op parts (obviously) i'd like to do the second game completely by myself, but that oil boss is really pushing my buttons at this point  :/

 

God i hope Mania is better, but i think after this game, i'll step away from Sonic for a little while and go play something that is going to give me a full on brain bleed  xD



A good tip I can give for the Oil Desert boss is, if you feel you can't get away from a falling crate in time, quickly transform into Super Sonic as it's about to fall on you to not lose your rings, and then immediately grab onto Tails to exit the super form so you only lose a couple rings at most, which can conserve your ring amount and ensure you have enough for the finale of the fight. It makes it a ton easier I reckon.

Edited by Shrooba
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Just now, Shrooba said:



A good tip I can give for that boss is, if you feel you can't get away from a falling crate in time, quickly transform into Super Sonic as it's about to fall on you to not lose your rings, and then immediately grab onto Tails to exit the super form, which can conserve rings and ensure you have enough for the finale of the fight. It makes it a ton easier I reckon.

 

After i've played a game for a while, i almost know exactly what i'm capable of and i do reach a certain point where emotions get so high i burst into tears and get very snappy and angry, and i hate getting to that point. It wasn't so bad when i was living with my parents (this going back quite a few years) where the only person i'd shout and scream at was myself. But now my partner is almost constantly with me, and i hate that i get so mad with these sort of games that i sometimes take it out on him, and i feel like a real piece of shit for doing so. So by the time i get to that point i just, put down the controller, turn off the console, and just go for a walk.

 

We did try activating super sonic on the last hit before he climbs all the way to the top, and for whatever reason we just couldn't get it to activate. There's nothing wrong with the controller, and we defo had more than 50 rings, but after about 3 attempts of doing it that way, i just turned the game off  xD

 

I hear a lot of mixed things about the Sonic Adventure games, mostly regarding the Knuckles levels. They seem to be a love or hate thing. I mean i like exploration in games, and collectathon stuff, so i get the feeling i'd like Knuckles stages, but i hear a lot of people despise his stages and say it was something that could have done with being removed. Each to their own i suppose, but i won't know until i give it a shot.

 

At some point......

 

A long way off from now  xD

As an aside to all of this, i really do think trophies drag Sonic games down somewhat.

I mean, if you've already finished the game, and defeated all the bosses without needing super sonic, why would you bother going back to beat them with super sonic.

The only real answer is trophies.

 

Granted, trophies for getting all the red rings and chaos emeralds make sense, and it's even a nice challenge to get all the rings in the first special stages. But this, beat all the bosses as super sonic seems a little redundant, and doing the last boss rush on episode 1 without getting hit is a 50% luck 50% skill depending on how the game behaves that day. Without dying, sure. Without being hit, urgh.

 

Not only that, but i realised that the trophy guide needs updating for episode 2. My partner and i finished the whole game start to finish, first time, in local co op. We got the trophy for finishing it in co op without exiting to the map, but i didn't get the trophy for finishing the game.

The guide mentions that you have to make sure you don't skip the cutscenes. We never saw any cutscenes nor credits during our entire run through.

Now that i've started it again, in single player, i'm noticing that there are in fact cut scenes!

So for your first run through the game, don't do it in co op  :P 

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Definitely go play some non-Sonic games once you’ve finished with Episode 2! Sounds like you need a palate cleanser after the frustration you’ve put yourself through with these last two :)

 

And hey, never be afraid to step away from a game altogether if it’s making you feel too bad. Trophy hunting has some high-highs but it can also have some really low-lows when you hit a bullshit challenge

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With what BGriff1986 just said, I also recommend playing non-Sonic games after you're done with 4 since it's good to have a break from things every now and then.
It's all good, at least you're trying out the series again. There's many people out there who judge Sonic without having touched a single Sonic game, so seeing as you put an effort into the series, whatever game it may be, is something I respect. 👍
If you're unsure about SA2 because of Knuckles, I do think you'd still like Mania, but there's no rush.

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5 minutes ago, BGriff1986 said:

Definitely go play some non-Sonic games once you’ve finished with Episode 2! Sounds like you need a palate cleanser after the frustration you’ve put yourself through with these last two :)

 

And hey, never be afraid to step away from a game altogether if it’s making you feel too bad. Trophy hunting has some high-highs but it can also have some really low-lows when you hit a bullshit challenge

 

Tell me about it. My palate cleanser currently is The Forest  :)

After mentioning low-lows however, i think i'm starting to have some flashbacks......

 

Black Knight Sword

She Wants Me Dead

Star Ocean 4

Super Beat Xonic

Kick Beat

 

Oof  xD 

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2 minutes ago, Shrooba said:

but there's no rush.

Erm, I think you’ll find you “gotta go fast” ;)

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Yeah, sonic 4 is basically the lowest point of the sonic totem pole you can go while youre still in the reasonably decent/average titles before you hit the legit bad games like sonic 06 or boom. Its certainly at the bottom of the dimps sonic totem pole at the very least so mania will definitely be a night and day quality boost in comparison.

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Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, Shrooba said:

With what BGriff1986 just said, I also recommend playing non-Sonic games after you're done with 4 since it's good to have a break from things every now and then.
It's all good, at least you're trying out the series again. There's many people out there who judge Sonic without having touched a single Sonic game, so seeing as you put an effort into the series, whatever game it may be, is something I respect. 👍
If you're unsure about SA2 because of Knuckles, I do think you'd still like Mania, but there's no rush.

My experience with Sonic in the early days of childhood were the first game on the Master System and Mega Drive and i still think my fave Sonic game is (please don't hurt me) Sonic Spinball! One of the more frustrating titles to play, but still one of my faves. The soundtrack, the aesthetic, mini games. God that game was so underrated!

 

And i can still go back to games like Sonic Heroes, with its stackable weirdness and puzzle oriented platforming. I've also got Sonic Unleashed to play at some point, and i remember liking it on the PS2 way back when, but i have heard that the game is a 9/10, so we'll see if i still like it after that  xD

Though i'm no stranger to difficult games, there's certain levels of difficulty that i feel push people to their limits, and that's sort of how i'm feeling with Sonic atm. I'm sure i'll get myself out of this slump at some point  ;)

 

I don't tend to judge a game until i've played them for myself, and that goes for most things. I think sometimes, it's the fanbase that puts people off Sonic games and Sonic in general. But there's strangeness in all fandoms, and i think people really ought to try things for themselves before judging something on what other people say, do or think about it.

5 minutes ago, jgm4789 said:

Yeah, sonic 4 is basically the lowest point of the sonic totem pole you can go while youre still in the reasonably decent/average titles before you hit the legit bad games like sonic 06 or boom. Its certainly at the bottom of the dimps sonic totem pole at the very least so mania will definitely be a night and day quality boost in comparison.

 

A shame that the Sonic Boom game was so bad, cos from what i've heard the TV series is pretty good.

 

What's everyones take on Sonic Forces? I've bought it and got the online trophies outta the way, and that game seemed pretty O.K. from what i played.

 

Edit: After reading what i've been typing, it seems to be the more traditional Sonic games i have issues with, and that's mostly regarding unfair boss fights and one hit kill pitfalls and traps.

Edited by Ancestral_Spirit
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Posted (edited)

32 minutes ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

I've also got Sonic Unleashed to play at some point, and i remember liking it on the PS2 way back when, but i have heard that the game is a 9/10, so we'll see if i still like it after that  xD

 

What's everyones take on Sonic Forces? I've bought it and got the online trophies outta the way, and that game seemed pretty O.K. from what i played.


Sonic Unleashed has a 9/10 difficulty rating mainly because of the hot dog missions, especially Eggmanland. You're required to do time trials, enemy trials, and ring trials for every day stage, and survival trials for night, and must be done without dying. It's definitely tricky and I'd argue Eggmanland is the hardest level in the Sonic series but that in my opinion makes it one of the best. I really like Unleashed personally, it offers good challenge, has a good story, and I don't mind the werehog in all honesty. It's not everyone's cup of tea though but I do like Unleashed a lot. I struggled with the hot dog missions when I played the game way back on the 360 around a decade ago, but I had a better time replaying it on PS3. It's all about practice and the plat is doable with perseverance despite it's difficulty.

As for Forces? Eh, another mediocre game unfortunately. The story is all over the place and the gameplay is way too simple. They shoved in classic Sonic because of pure nostalgia thinking it'd automatically make the game great, but what classic Sonic lacks is what I mentioned earlier, the focus of momentum that the original trilogy had. His physics are very janky.
I've seen the "boost to win" argument before, which I didn't agree with because of games that did it right like Unleashed and Gens, but to tell the truth, every modern Sonic stage in Forces is essentially running through straight corridors with no thought, it's way too easy and simple.
The story also suffers because while the premise is really cool, the execution just doesn't work. In one example, Tails is desperate for Sonic's help because of Chaos, even when he lacked any of the emeralds which makes no sense; he fought Chaos in SA1 when he had 4 emeralds in possession. Not to mention it completely erases his entire progression of the Adventure games where he learns to fight for himself. Tails did kind of do the same thing in Unleashed in one of the first cutscenes, but at least in that game he still helped Sonic by flying him to each continent and wasn't afraid to fly headfirst into Eggman's base of operations at the end.

Edited by Shrooba
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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

 

Oh no i completely understand that in terms of Sonic games, these ones are considered some of the worst ones.

But by God if they make me not wanna play them in general.

The really strange thing is i even remember enjoying Sonic Heroes and even....... Shadow The Hedgehog! But now that i'm looking back at the Sonic games, there really is nothing in them besides speed and pretty colours. 

 

I own Sonic Mania physically, and i will get around to it at some point, but these 2 titles have really left a sour taste in my mouth. Currently i'm trying to do the Oil level boss in Sonic 4 episode 2 as super sonic. But for the first 7/8ths of the fight, you can't get hit in order to keep enough rings to give him that one last hit as super sonic for the trophy to count. Decisions like this utterly baffle me!

 

We're going to let you unlock God Mode by doing really difficult challenges, so you can feel rewarded for doing said difficult challenges.

Now don't get hit for this entire fight, and then you can use your God Mode for the final hit!

So why are you giving me the option of a God Mode in this fight at all, if i have to play well enough to never be hit in the first place?!

>.< 

Just try not to get hit, and near the end of the boss if you see a box is going to damage you, then use SuperSonic and then return to your normal Sonic. That way you wont loose rings to do the final hit at the end.

 

Look how I did it: 

 

Edited by Pottercito_
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1 hour ago, Pottercito_ said:

Just try not to get hit, and near the end of the boss if you see a box is going to damage you, then use SuperSonic and then return to your normal Sonic. That way you wont loose rings to do the final hit at the end.

 

Look how I did it: 

 

 

The fact that you managed to hit him before he manages to smash any of the crates below seems to be where i'm making a major cock up, as when i try to hit him i seem to sail right through his body and then have to hit him after he's slammed his fist into the boxes. I'll have a few more cracks at it tonight  :)

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2 hours ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

 

The fact that you managed to hit him before he manages to smash any of the crates below seems to be where i'm making a major cock up, as when i try to hit him i seem to sail right through his body and then have to hit him after he's slammed his fist into the boxes. I'll have a few more cracks at it tonight  :)

There you go. As for the forum itself, I would say that you should definetly try Mania and Generations. You said you played Unleashed in PS2, great sonic but for me Generations is the best one in recent years. Note that Sonic Racing games are also way too enjoyable.

 

As for Sonic 4 Episodes, I really enjoyed them, trophies were also fun to get, but Generations and classic Sonic 1 &2 and Adventure 1&2 are way better.

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Aaaannnd, it is done!

 

I'll have a go at the metal sonic chapters, and then move on to summat else. Hallelujah!  :D 

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I had the Sonic collection on GameCube but almost never played it. Played Sonic Mania when it was given with + and that made me realize that I do not enjoy Sonic in the slightest. There’s some parts, like the super fast sections, but everything besides that is just boring. I definitely prefer Crash, Mario, Jak, Rayman, etc way more than Sonic.

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13 hours ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

Growing up i was a big Sonic The Hedgehog fan. I used to collect the plushies, watch the tv shows and play all the games.

 

But playing Sonic 4 episode 1 and 2 has made me realise that as a child, i think i liked Sonic cos he was cool looking, bright and colourful and the games went fast.

Now i can't bring myself to enjoy the games at all.

 

Unfair bosses, insta kill drops, terrible collision detection, slow ass camera, dodgy controls, the list goes on.

It just make me really sad to think of it all this way, because i still love the character designs and the TV shows etc, but the games really are broken messes, which is especially more noticeable as an adult who has played a multitude of games, that take the Sonic formula and make it better. Whereas SEGA have no idea how to improve the formula, and just continue to push out more games with all the same glaring issues.

 

Yeah, I'm with you on this.

 

There are some games I loved as a kid that when I go back to, I realise that my tastes have just changed - the games are fine, but they no longer appeal just because they aren't my jam anymore.

 

There are others though - the ones where, going back to playing them with a more discerning eye now, I realise it is not my tastes changing that is the problem, but rather my tolerance.

The games were straight up bad at the time - I was just too blinded by my desire to like them for whatever reason as a kid to see it.

Sonic games are the undisputed king of that group, I'm afraid.

 

I feel like Sonic games - even the quote unquote "good" ones, were always bad.

They looked great in on a demo-station in attract mode, where Sonic would be speeding along and looking like he was light-years cooler than that silly, frumpy plumber in his overalls with his slow jumping and dumb-ass racoon suit - it had the cool music (with the Genesis' better sound chip), the ironic, wagging finger and "hurry up" foot-tapping, and a metric ton of "90's 'ttude, man" - perfect to make all us kids put a SEGA system on their Christmas list...

 

...unfortunately though, then we played the games.

 

Sonic might look cool as fuck when he's speeding along like lightning, controlled by someone who knows the level inside out, but within Greenhill Zone 1, the very second you touch an enemy and lost your momentum (which, of course, you always did, as the games were never designed so you could see what was coming), suddenly you were no longer playing a hyper-speed thrill-fest.

You were playing a 3rd rate, painfully slow, poorly controlling, C-grade platformer that could barely compete with Coolspot, or Jelly Boy, or the McDonalds tie-in games, let alone that frumpy plumber 😔

 

I totally understand Sonic as an iconic character - he could always easily compete with Mario on that level - as a brand ambassador and a symbol (in fact, he pretty much outdid Mario in ever area outside of games - I still watch the Sonic Unleashed cartoon with my little kid now, God bless him ☺️) ...

...but on a game quality level?

 

Not a hope in hell.

They're not in the same league.

Hell, they are barely the same sport.

 

*Except for Sonic and SEGA All Stars Racing.

I will go down fighting for that one.

I think that beats any Mariokart, any day of the week. 

 

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6 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Yeah, I'm with you on this.

 

There are some games I loved as a kid that when I go back to, I realise that my tastes have just changed - the games are fine, but they no longer appeal just because they aren't my jam anymore.

 

There are others though - the ones where, going back to playing them with a more discerning eye now, I realise it is not my tastes changing that is the problem, but rather my tolerance.

The games were straight up bad at the time - I was just too blinded by my desire to like them for whatever reason as a kid to see it.

Sonic games are the undisputed king of that group, I'm afraid.

 

I feel like Sonic games - even the quote unquote "good" ones, were always bad.

They looked great in on a demo-station in attract mode, where Sonic would be speeding along and looking like he was light-years cooler than that silly, frumpy plumber in his overalls with his slow jumping and dumb-ass racoon suit - it had the cool music (with the Genesis' better sound chip), the ironic, wagging finger and "hurry up" foot-tapping, and a metric ton of "90's 'ttude, man" - perfect to make all us kids put a SEGA system on their Christmas list...

 

...unfortunately though, then we played the games.

 

Sonic might look cool as fuck when he's speeding along like lightning, controlled by someone who knows the level inside out, but within Greenhill Zone 1, the very second you touch an enemy and lost your momentum (which, of course, you always did, as the games were never designed so you could see what was coming), suddenly you were no longer playing a hyper-speed thrill-fest.

You were playing a 3rd rate, painfully slow, poorly controlling, C-grade platformer that could barely compete with Coolspot, or Jelly Boy, or the McDonalds tie-in games, let alone that frumpy plumber 1f614.png

 

I totally understand Sonic as an iconic character - he could always easily compete with Mario on that level - as a brand ambassador and a symbol (in fact, he pretty much outdid Mario in ever area outside of games - I still watch the Sonic Unleashed cartoon with my little kid now, God bless him 263a.png) ...

...but on a game quality level?

 

Not a hope in hell.

They're not in the same league.

Hell, they are barely the same sport.

 

*Except for Sonic and SEGA All Stars Racing.

I will go down fighting for that one.

I think that beats any Mariokart, any day of the week. 

 

 

Holy hell, i think you took the words right out of my mouth  xD

 

Although i will say, i was never a Mario fan either, not 2D mario at least. I know this is going to sound weird coming from a 30 year old, but i never played a 2D Mario game until relatively recently, and i'm not a big fan of that either. Mario Galaxy and Mario Sunshine on the other hand, are superb games that i could always find myself going back to.

 

I think a lot of this all has to do with how games have evolved over time, the expense and available-ness.

Back in the day, you had very few games and/or consoles to choose from. Not only that, but shit was expensive and the digital age of games hadn't really taken off yet.

You were stuck with what you had, so you hammered away at the same 2-3 games for months or even years on end. You learned them inside out, and grew to like them in a semi- stockholm syndrome kinda way.

But now that games are more readily available, cheaper, far more variety, better technology, and add to all that i'm now an adult who can buy whatever games i please, i constantly find games that take a formula and expand on it to the point where the original idea no longer holds a candle to the newer stuff.

 

I'm not saying we should forget the roots of gaming (platforming mainly), and how it all started. OG Sonic, Mario, Dizzy, Alex Kidd.

But sometimes i feel we need to accept that these things have been done better, even if it's within the same IP. The difference between the original Sonic games and something like Sonic Mania appear to be night and day from what i've seen.

 

You're defo right that marketing had a massive influence. Mario seemed rather dull in comparison to Sonic, and the advertisers knew damn well how to get a kids attention. Bright colours, fast speeds, lots of cool effects. Hell it worked on me  xD

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2 minutes ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

 

Holy hell, i think you took the words right out of my mouth  xD

 

Although i will say, i was never a Mario fan either, not 2D mario at least. I know this is going to sound weird coming from a 30 year old, but i never played a 2D Mario game until relatively recently, and i'm not a big fan of that either. Mario Galaxy and Mario Sunshine on the other hand, are superb games that i could always find myself going back to.

 

I think a lot of this all has to do with how games have evolved over time, the expense and available-ness.

Back in the day, you had very few games and/or consoles to choose from. Not only that, but shit was expensive and the digital age of games hadn't really taken off yet.

You were stuck with what you had, so you hammered away at the same 2-3 games for months or even years on end. You learned them inside out, and grew to like them in a semi- stockholm syndrome kinda way.

But now that games are more readily available, cheaper, far more variety, better technology, and add to all that i'm now an adult who can buy whatever games i please, i constantly find games that take a formula and expand on it to the point where the original idea no longer holds a candle to the newer stuff.

 

I'm not saying we should forget the roots of gaming (platforming mainly), and how it all started. OG Sonic, Mario, Dizzy, Alex Kidd.

But sometimes i feel we need to accept that these things have been done better, even if it's within the same IP. The difference between the original Sonic games and something like Sonic Mania appear to be night and day from what i've seen.

 

You're defo right that marketing had a massive influence. Mario seemed rather dull in comparison to Sonic, and the advertisers knew damn well how to get a kids attention. Bright colours, fast speeds, lots of cool effects. Hell it worked on me  xD

 

😱I can't go with you on the Mario angle - I have never enjoyed any 3D Mario games - though to be fair, I have never been much of a 3D platformer guy in any capacity, and I still consider Super Mario World to be the greatest of all platform games, but I can't disagree with the rest of your post for the most part.

 

I think the marginal difference between our views on that stuff though, is purely age - I'm closer to 40 than 30 now, so those were my Mario games - these new-fangled 3D Marios with his jetpacks and his flood-hoses were for the N64 generation, not my old SNES-playing ass 😂

 

 

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Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, OmegaRejectz said:

I had the Sonic collection on GameCube but almost never played it. Played Sonic Mania when it was given with + and that made me realize that I do not enjoy Sonic in the slightest. There’s some parts, like the super fast sections, but everything besides that is just boring. I definitely prefer Crash, Mario, Jak, Rayman, etc way more than Sonic.

 

I'm with you to a point on those other titles.

Crash Bandicoot is a series a love to death, but i'll admit there are certain points where the unfair level of difficulty hits a skill ceiling so high it reaches the moon. Then again i've not played the latest Crash game yet, so maybe i've got better at the games over the years......... X to doubt  xD

 

As i mentioned earlier, 3D Mario is my JAM!

 

Jak and Daxter, and Jak 3 were great titles. Jak and Daxter for its amazing platforming, and Jak 3 for it's platforming and 3rd person shooter combo. Jak 2 on the other hand, urgh. Too much racing, too many timed segments, and such a massive departure from the original i think i got whiplash the first time i played it.

 

OG Rayman has a lot of the same issues i hold with a lot of older 2D platformers, like back to Sonic again. Lots of unfair segments designed to take your lives away to keep you on the same game for longer. However newer 2D Rayman, like Origins and Legends (not taking into account the dreadful online aspect) are amazing games through and through  :) 

10 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

😱I can't go with you on the Mario angle - I have never enjoyed any 3D Mario games - though to be fair, I have never been much of a 3D platformer guy in any capacity, and I still consider Super Mario World to be the greatest of all platform games, but I can't disagree with the rest of your post for the most part.

 

I think the marginal difference between our views on that stuff though, is purely age - I'm closer to 40 than 30 now, so those were my Mario games - these new-fangled 3D Marios with his jetpacks and his flood-hoses were for the N64 generation, not my old SNES-playing ass 😂

 

 

My partner gave a little cheer next to me when i told him you said Super Mario World was the greatest platforming game  :D

He's closer to 40 then 30 as well, so it really does seem like being the product of a generation really does have a big influence on what we play and what we like.

 

My first game was Jet Set Willy on the ZX Spectrum and then subsequently Fantasy World Dizzy, so i'm not coming from a place where i started with an N64 or a Playstation, which i suppose might be a little unusual for someone my age. But i will admit, i remember having far fonder memories of my Sega Megadrive and my PS1 more than anything else. Whereas i'm sure most people who are closer to 40, will have fonder memories of something like the Amiga and Commodore 64.

 

I know a lot of people can't get behind my view point of 3D Mario being better than 2D, and i can respect that  :)

I have the same issue with the Zelda titles as well. 2D LoZ is fine, but by god if i don't love Windwaker and Twilight Princess more (my partner just whispered Link to The Past was better xD ).

It's interesting to see all these different view points from people, not just regarding Sonic games but other 2D platformers as well.

Maybe in about 10-15 years time or so, we all meet up here again and try these games out to see if our tastes have changed yet again :P 

Edited by Ancestral_Spirit
Corrected Misspellings
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6 hours ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

 

I'm with you to a point on those other titles.

Crash Bandicoot is a series a love to death, but i'll admit there are certain points where the unfair level of difficulty hits a skill ceiling so high it reaches the moon. Then again i've not played the latest Crash game yet, so maybe i've got better at the games over the years......... X to doubt  xD

 

As i mentioned earlier, 3D Mario is my JAM!

 

Jak and Daxter, and Jak 3 were great titles. Jak and Daxter for its amazing platforming, and Jak 3 for it's platforming and 3rd person shooter combo. Jak 2 on the other hand, urgh. Too much racing, too many timed segments, and such a massive departure from the original i think i got whiplash the first time i played it.

 

OG Rayman has a lot of the same issues i hold with a lot of older 2D platformers, like back to Sonic again. Lots of unfair segments designed to take your lives away to keep you on the same game for longer. However newer 2D Rayman, like Origins and Legends (not taking into account the dreadful online aspect) are amazing games through and through  :) 

My partner gave a little cheer next to me when i told him you said Super Mario World was the greatest platforming game  :D

He's closer to 40 then 30 as well, so it really does seem like being the product of a generation really does have a big influence on what we play and what we like.

 

My first game was Jet Set Willy on the ZX Spectrum and then subsequently Fantasy World Dizzy, so i'm not coming from a place where i started with an N64 or a Playstation, which i suppose might be a little unusual for someone my age. But i will admit, i remember having far fonder memories of my Sega Megadrive and my PS1 more than anything else. Whereas i'm sure most people who are closer to 40, will have fonder memories of something like the Amiga and Commodore 64.

 

I know a lot of people can't get behind my view point of 3D Mario being better than 2D, and i can respect that  :)

I have the same issue with the Zelda titles as well. 2D LoZ is fine, but by god if i don't love Windwaker and Twilight Princess more (my partner just whispered Link to The Past was better xD ).

It's interesting to see all these different view points from people, not just regarding Sonic games but other 2D platformers as well.

Maybe in about 10-15 years time or so, we all meet up here again and try these games out to see if our tastes have changed yet again :P 

The only Rayman title I've played is Legends (besides the Rayman/Rabbids DS/Wii Arcadey game(s)) if Origins was on PS4 I'd definitely check it out though!

 

For the most part I don't find anything with Crash frustrating. I'm one of those people who really enjoy the bridge of hell level.

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