Popular Post rjkclarke Posted September 13, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Review!! It didn't feel right to call this a Classic Review - I only got the 100% about two weeks ago. Platinum #163 Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (PS4) #CantKillProgress You experienced Deus Ex: Mankind Divided™ and collected all trophies. Congrats! A Few Trophy Stats Platinum Earned - 17 March 2018: 3:29:11 PM 100% Achieved - 30 August 2021: 11:19:31 PM Time taken to Platinum - 1 week, 5 days, 21 hours Time Taken to 100% - 3 years, 5 months, 4 weeks Platinum Rarity - 2.46% 100% Rarity - 0.77% Trophy Number - # 8,708 You’ll all probably be quite surprised, and more than likely very relieved, that the base game portion of this review will actually be fairly short (well short-ish compared to what you’ve seen recently). That’s not to say that Deus Ex: Mankind Divided isn’t worthy of an in depth discussion – because it absolutely is, but the thing is a lot of elements of the gameplay, haven’t changed all that much between Human Revolution and this game, I’ll point them out where and if it’s relevant, but for the most part a lot remains the same. If you want to re-familiarise yourself with that, you can read my review of it here (but it isn’t at all a necessity for this one, it’s just there if you want to). It’s also a conscious decision to try and keep elements of this a bit shorter, as this title has a lot of DLC packs tied to it, and I want to dedicate some time to those as well, as I think the DLC in Mankind Divided is of a very high quality – and although I don’t think I ever would have said this probably even a month ago, even Breach mode deserves a bit of praise – as I ended up enjoying it far more than I expected to. Well then, now I’ve gotten that bit of slight contextual admin out of the way, let’s hop back in the time machine and go back to the year 2018, full disclosure though, we’ll be hopping around a bit as I managed to get 100% completion in this title only last month (August 2021). Yet 2018 was when I initially played through this game. As these usually descend into being a hybrid of my own experiences and an objective review – I’ll try and continue that theme here. I actually played this game as a result of PS+ (which feels like a shameful thing to admit considering how much of a big fan of the series I am) due in no small part to the fact that I was one of those people that got scared away by the horror stories that had started to circulate surrounding the curious case of Mr Michael Transactions – I’m no fan of those after all, to be perfectly honest though, who is? Apart from the people that actually make money from them I suppose. Imagine my surprise – upon finally playing the game that I then discover that the micro-transactions are completely optional, I know they usually are anyway, but some games are very unfairly balanced to the point where they seem like the only viable option. In Mankind Divided’s case though, I really don’t understand why so many people had gotten enraged about it, you wouldn’t ever realistically need to use them unless you really needed to give yourself an unfair advantage towards the game itself. If you’re one of those people (cheeky Dennis Norden reference for any of you UK folk out there of a certain age) that have been put off of playing this game because of our evil gaming Overlord Michael Transaction – then rest assured, I’ve played it to full completion and I never planned to or even felt pressured to make any purchases and neither should you. I just thought this part was worth drawing attention too, as I know I’m almost certainly not the only one that avoided the game initially due to those. Deus Ex: Mankind Divided almost creates a problem for itself, in the sense that one of the criticisms that you can absolutely level at the game, is the way in which it tells its story. Yet the way it tells that story is probably really beneficial for developing Jensen into a much more three dimensional entity than he was in the first game. Therein lays the huge juxtaposition with this game, the way in which the developers have decided to tell the story, end up being quite forceful and a little more on the nose than perhaps it could have been. Dare I say it, even a little ham-fisted? I can’t expand upon it too deeply without going into very deep spoiler territory – but you’ll find this out very early into the game, that this game contains many allegorical themes pertaining to race and segregation – granted, in Mankind Divided, these themes are dealt with more subtly, than they are in something like Detroit Become Human, but they are there nonetheless. Whilst it isn’t over simplified particularly, I can’t help but think they could have done more with the concept than they actually did. Where it does shine, is the way in which the chosen narrative direction really elevates Jensen as a character far more than it ever did in the first game, despite that game containing more personal stakes for him as a character. This brings me onto something I alluded to earlier. Whilst themes of augmented oppression appear in the previous title, they were never really the focal point. Jensen, just by virtue of being an augmented individual, is directly affected by this. After all “he never asked for this” right? Right? Oh come on – I had to reuse that somewhere. Anyone reading this must have known that line would appear here too. This could just be me reading too much into it – let’s face it, that’s definitely happened in the past, but Jensen in this game seems much more at peace with who he is at this point in his life. Seemingly much more inclined in this game to fight for what HE believes in, as opposed to a bit of self denial that I believe ever so slightly crept into his character in the first game. Much like Human Revolution, Mankind Divided contains an absolute raft of interesting and memorable characters – potentially more so than in its predecessor. A successful by-product I believe, of having far superior side content. Koller was a personal highlight for me, I thought his character was very interesting – you don’t see all that much of him, but he remains memorable nevertheless. One of the really strong elements regarding the characters in this game is how enigmatic they often are – I was often left wondering exactly what specific characters motivations were, and in a game that’s plot is derived heavily from conspiracy theories and what ifs, having characters that you often second guess, is a commendable and realistic inclusion, it just fits tonally for them to be there. With the darker and more personal direction – that this story takes, that ends up being reflected in the games visual department. I think the darker colour schemes in places; really heighten the oppressive feel that areas of Prague have in this title. From a design perspective, I think a remarkable level of detail was put into making each individual part of Prague feel very unique. I’m underselling that too – because some of the level of detail is astounding – they are bettered slightly too by some of the one-time locations that you end up visiting as part of the main story. In much the same way Human Revolution contained a large amount of choice when it comes to exploration; Mankind Divided takes that to a much greater level than the high bar set previously, there’s a lot to be said, for just general exploration in a game like this. Michael McCann returns in Mankind Divided to provide another original soundtrack. Although, I think the quality of output is slightly better in Human Revolution. The extra variety found within that game goes a long way – I’ve been listening to the soundtrack the whole way through writing this review, and it’s quite evident – how much of it all sounds similar. That isn’t a side effect of me listening to it like that either; I think it’s just a bit less distinct, which is a real shame. Some soundtracks have the ability to immediately transport you back to wherever you’ve heard them in a given video game; this doesn’t quite manage that unfortunately. Whilst it’s perfectly fine on a technical level – I think, in Mankind Divided it just feels slightly directionless, which I hate to say, but I can’t really avoid it either. I was surprised by how little of it came flooding back, compared to its PS3 predecessor. Whereas the music is less than stellar in this game – the voice acting this time around is terrific across the board. Strong voice performances from characters are plentiful. An added bonus is you don’t have an incredibly racially insensitive character like Letitia this time around to make you really scratch your head and think “Really? That’s where we’re going now in a game released in the 2010’s.” Gameplay is only really improved upon from that found in Human Revolution – in fact it’s probably the games strongest feature. Don’t get me wrong the story is great, I just think the versatile play styles that you are given, just about edge it out for me. It’s a game that I think is instantly re-playable just to tinker around with different builds and augment setups just for continued enjoyment. I think one of the most satisfying features is the progression system – it’s one that really rewards precise play. A video game giving you a nice digital pat on the back and telling you “Here, have some more experience, because you did so well not triggering alarms or being seen by a single person” really goes a long way in making a satisfying user experience, which then lead to you having even better tools at your disposal. I can’t overstate it enough – but the inclusion of such a large freedom of choice in this game goes such a long way. Although I’ve only really played Deus Ex games stealthily, the option is there to do the complete opposite of that and still have a satisfying experience. Quite often in video games – choice is more of an illusory thing, than it is a practical proposition. The game tells you, you have choices – yet realistically there’s often one choice that’s the most viable one. It’s one of the things I really appreciate about games such as this, Hitman or Dishonoured. A new feature in this title is Breach mode – which I’ll delve into further in its DLC section further below. Another controversial choice as this is where Mr Transactions has decided to make his semi-permanent address. I guess I need to address the Elephant in the room “Hello Elephant.” Not like that! Anyway, the games length (not of the Elephant either). Or in this case lack thereof is one of heaviest criticisms I’ve seen levelled at Mankind Divided. It’s a criticism that I just can’t get onboard with either. Even if I’d paid full price for this game I’d have been more than satisfied with its length. A games length doesn’t equate to measuring its quality. Otherwise everybody would be lauding White Knight Chronicles and Star Ocean: The Last Hope as the greatest games of all time and nobodies doing that are they? I’m not going to sugar-coat this – the game is short, sometimes that’s a good thing though. It never outstays its welcome though, and the limited amount of story mission’s end up becoming even more memorable as a result. You get even more game time as a result of Breach Mode too. The game even contains two branching paths, which can lead to two distinctly different yet still both incredibly interesting missions to undertake. One of them even sees you rob a bank. It’s almost like Blade Runner meets Heat or Oceans 11. Another controversial choice made for Mankind Divided was the decisions to not only include trophies tied to breach mode – but also add in a permadeath difficulty that wipes your save upon death. I ended up being fine with both of these design decisions. If you’ve read any of my reviews before, you’d know that I love variety – so as much as I didn’t particularly enjoy Breach mode the first time, I appreciated the fact it was another thing to explore. The permadeath inclusion I found to be a brilliant idea – it’s an incredibly tense experience too, that keeps you on edge very often – because even if you are backing up your saves regularly you can still get caught out by getting overzealous and thinking you don’t need to save for a while and then end up losing hours of your progress. It ends up adding a whole new layer to the game as a result. I’ll be honest I did backup my saves fairly regularly, but I never actually had to use them, because by the time you’ll do this difficulty you’ll have a very firm grasp on many of the key mechanics in the game. It’s another one of those games where you’re probably either best playing through it blind first, and then using a guide, or playing with a guide straight from the beginning. Due in no small part to the fact this game has a litany of missable trophies and miscellaneous ones that are probably best done at specific points. This game is a fine example of trophies enriching the experience though. There’s something to be said about playing a stealthy playthrough of a game to completion, where you aren’t spotted, raise any alarms or kill anyone. It always tends to – in my case at the very least, leads to a nice sense of accomplishment. There are so many things that you probably wouldn’t have seen or done as a result of trophies. Are they perfect? No, because there needed to be more trophies associated with speech checks like there was in Human Revolution. That’s just a personal gripe though; they’re still there, just in much less abundance. Would I recommend this? Yes I would, it’s almost always on sale for a decent price, and it’s got an amazing amount of variety to its gameplay and most of all it’s just very enjoyable to play through. If you’re into Ultra Rare trophies this game has a couple too, so there’s that incentive too if you’re that way inclined. Although I’ve come to the conclusion that I personally prefer Human Revolution, that’s not to say I don’t very much enjoy this one, it’s just a small margin of preference. Despite both of them being great games in their own right – I think I just prefer the variety on offer in Human Revolution – I think the globe-trotting nature of some of that games mission structure just makes the game feel that little bit more grandiose and wider reaching. DLC System Rift Mankind Divided’s first trophy supported DLC comes in the form of System Rift – which of the non Breach mode related DLC was probably my least favourite. It’s still very good; it’s just a slight step down from A Criminal Past – which I thought was brilliant. These DLC’s take the form of Jensen’s therapy sessions. As he recounts the events of the stories you end up playing. It’s a concept that I think they could have done more with, I was hoping for some Prince of Persia-esque “No No No, that’s not how that happened” as you as a player do something fundamentally wrong the game didn’t want you to do. I think I’m probably asking too much on that front though. System Rift sees the return of Pritchard, who appeared in the previous game and this one too. He’s quite a divisive character to begin with, so I thought it was strange to build a whole DLC around him. I appreciate how much context that System Rift actually gives to Breach Mode though – that’s a nice touch, as it does make the mode feel a little less bolted on as a result of this DLC, which is something that might otherwise have been an even bigger negative point in Breach modes favour. I think the fact that it takes the form of another heist mission is essentially what cut down my enjoyment of it. It’s not a personal bias thing either, I don’t know why, they chose a heist - when the main game provides you with a heist mission already, and whilst that’s fun. This one isn’t all that different enough to be memorable. Breach Mode I’m not going to dedicate two separate sections for both of the Breach mode DLC packs; I’ll just cover them in this one. When I first played these three years ago – I couldn’t stand even the idea of Breach mode, I just thought it added nothing positive to the experience. I’m going to rescind that opinion because – playing it recently it actually does a decent amount of world building and lore addition within it, which I quite appreciated this time around. There’s a lot of really minute attention to detail in Breach Mode too, that I didn’t expect at all. One of the story functions comes with you interacting with other Rippers (hackers) via chat rooms. Which seems like a way of not spending money on animations, which is true but it does make for a fairly authentic experience. The rippers often make very subtle spelling mistakes – much like we all do as we’re hastily typing something out to someone to try and make your point. Subtle differences in spelling, or grammatical errors I thought was an incredibly fascinating inclusion. A minor yet very impressive attention to detail. If I was going to equate Breach Mode to anything – it would probably be the VR missions found in the older Metal Gear Solid titles, they essentially consist of small objective based gameplay that can usually be finished within a few minutes – or seconds in some cases. I would probably argue that Breach Mode is a little less versatile than the main game – as the most viable option to get through the mode in the most hassle free way possible is stealth. Due in no small part to the fact that the enemies upgrade and can take more and more damage as you progress further and further through the breach nodes. It’s honestly quite a fun game mode – I’m very happy that I actually went back and did this – otherwise I think I’d still be bemoaning the fact it even exists – without really giving it much of a fair chance. A Criminal Past It isn’t that I don’t want to talk about this one in great detail – I do, but this has gotten quite long, just as a result of me discussing the DLC. Honestly though, this DLC is fantastic. It’s essentially Prison Break meets Deus Ex – although if we’re talking personal preferences for a minute I’d probably have preferred it be Oz meets Deus Ex, despite how much darker that would have been, I’ve always liked how gritty that show was. I think on almost every level – this is far and away the best DLC in this game, it’s atmospheric, interesting, funny and most importantly incredibly satisfying to play through. Add to that, the fact that this game has some incredibly memorable characters, which are better than some of those found within the base game; you’ve got yourself a pretty good time right there. I’m underselling that I know – but I don’t feel like the game would be a complete experience without it. So I don’t want to risk giving anything away. This also contains a returning trophy of sorts from Human Revolution – a kind I absolutely adore, which is to go through the entire DLC without using any of your augments just pure stealth and skill, it’s quite difficult, but it is tremendously satisfying. Yes – you’ll probably end up reloading quite a bit, which is often the nature of stealth games, but as a result you’ll notice how incredibly well crafted and designed the entire prison map is. It’s an absolute MUST PLAY in my opinion. It really elevates this game, just by its existence. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Woooo! I actually finished reviewing a game series!! Although there's only two entries with trophies so strictly speaking that isn't much of an achievement. Big shout out and thank you to @DrunkenEngineer - who helped massively with inspiring me to go back and get the Breach Mode trophies done, and the help with getting those challenge trophies knocked out lightning fast - it's much appreciated!! A Minor Experiment Right - so I've been considering this for a while - and I'll only do this if @DrBloodmoney is fine with it and doesn't feel like I'm stealing his shtick, because that's 100% not my intention. I'll just abandon the idea if it's not something you're cool with Doc. Don't worry I won't be ranking my games scientifically or anything like that. I just wondered if it might be a good idea to see if people want me to specifically review something I've played - I only say this, because right now I'm rather spoiled for choice - which is part of the reason I've been a bit slow getting to some of them, but if that was taken out of my hands a bit and there were specific ones to focus on it might give me that boot up the backside that I need to get them done a bit quicker. Just think of them a bit like Doc's priority assessments if you read his awesome thread... Which you absolutely should! That's why I mentioned that I didn't want to seem like I was stealing his shtick. I sort of shot myself in the foot by not doing them chronologically as it gave me almost too much choice. This might keep me a little more focused though, could be potentially really fun too. Still I'm throwing the idea out there, just to see if anyone is interested in it - The only two that I really have reserved right now are Tales of Zestiria and Doctor Who: The Eternity Clock. I want to put those out on very specific dates in the next few months. But other than that it's kind of a take your pick on what you games you'd want me to write about. The only rules I have - is that I have to have either gotten a platinum or 100% in them, if I'm lacking DLC in them I'll go back and write that up if I ever get around to finishing it. You can either find them on my profile on the site or you can dig through the first post on here to see if they've been reviewed yet or not. If I get any interest I'll make a note of it and mark it for a priority I guess. I guess really I should treat the new Tomb Raider trilogy as the first ones as @YaManSmevz, seemed to be interested in me writing about those around the time I was reviewing the Keeley Hawes trilogy a month or so back. But don't feel like you can't ask me before they've gone up - I tend to chip away at these reviews when I've got a solid amount of time that I can sit down and dedicate to them, so I'd get to them eventually. So let me know if it's something any of you might be interested in. This one's been a blast as ever. Peace out. Edited February 2, 2022 by rjkclarke 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBloodmoney Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 5 hours ago, rjkclarke said: Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Review!! It didn't feel right to call this a Classic Review - I only got the 100% about two weeks ago. Platinum #163 Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (PS4) Great write up as ever mate - I must admit, I haven't touched this one, despite liking Human Revolution quite a bit, and I think hat is primarily for the reasons you were initially sceptical too - the micro-transactional stuff and the subsequent brouhaha it invited at the time of release. I think that was enough to shove it from the "definitely" pile to the "maybe" one, and the "maybe" pile always sits on shifting sands - games have a tendency to just slip away into the ether when they sit there for too long! You're not the first person in recent years to espouse the virtues of it though, and with Deathloop potetially being the final Arkane game to make it to Sony consoles, having an immersive sim waiting in the wings might well bring it back to the forefront for me again! On this: 5 hours ago, rjkclarke said: Right - so I've been considering this for a while - and I'll only do this if @DrBloodmoney is fine with it and doesn't feel like I'm stealing his shtick, because that's 100% not my intention. I'll just abandon the idea if it's not something you're cool with Doc. Don't worry I won't be ranking my games scientifically or anything like that. I just wondered if it might be a good idea to see if people want me to specifically review something I've played - I only say this, because right now I'm rather spoiled for choice - which is part of the reason I've been a bit slow getting to some of them, but if that was taken out of my hands a bit and there were specific ones to focus on it might give me that boot up the backside that I need to get them done a bit quicker. Just think of them a bit like Doc's priority assessments if you read his awesome thread... Which you absolutely should! That's why I mentioned that I didn't want to seem like I was stealing his shtick. I sort of shot myself in the foot by not doing them chronologically as it gave me almost too much choice. This might keep me a little more focused though, could be potentially really fun too. How dare you! ? nah - just kidding! ? I didn't invent the concept of the audience participation, and I certainly don't get to claim dibs on it! - I think it's a great idea, particularly if you're feeling lost as to what to look at next, so have at it! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHADOW-KILLER-S2 Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 7 hours ago, rjkclarke said: Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Review!! It didn't feel right to call this a Classic Review - I only got the 100% about two weeks ago. Platinum #163 Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (PS4) #CantKillProgress You experienced Deus Ex: Mankind Divided™ and collected all trophies. Congrats! A Few Trophy Stats Platinum Earned - 17 March 2018: 3:29:11 PM 100% Achieved - 30 August 2021: 11:19:31 PM Time taken to Platinum - 1 week, 5 days, 21 hours Time Taken to 100% - 3 years, 5 months, 4 weeks Platinum Rarity - 2.46% 100% Rarity - 0.77% Trophy Number - # 8708 You’ll all probably be quite surprised, and more than likely very relieved, that the base game portion of this review will actually be fairly short (well short-ish compared to what you’ve seen recently). That’s not to say that Deus Ex: Mankind Divided isn’t worthy of an in depth discussion – because it absolutely is, but the thing is a lot of elements of the gameplay, haven’t changed all that much between Human Revolution and this game, I’ll point them out where and if it’s relevant, but for the most part a lot remains the same. If you want to re-familiarise yourself with that, you can read my review of it here (but it isn’t at all a necessity for this one, it’s just there if you want to). It’s also a conscious decision to try and keep elements of this a bit shorter, as this title has a lot of DLC packs tied to it, and I want to dedicate some time to those as well, as I think the DLC in Mankind Divided is of a very high quality – and although I don’t think I ever would have said this probably even a month ago, even Breach mode deserves a bit of praise – as I ended up enjoying it far more than I expected to. Well then, now I’ve gotten that bit of slight contextual admin out of the way, let’s hop back in the time machine and go back to the year 2018, full disclosure though, we’ll be hopping around a bit as I managed to get 100% completion in this title only last month (August 2021). Yet 2018 was when I initially played through this game. As these usually descend into being a hybrid of my own experiences and an objective review – I’ll try and continue that theme here. I actually played this game as a result of PS+ (which feels like a shameful thing to admit considering how much of a big fan of the series I am) due in no small part to the fact that I was one of those people that got scared away by the horror stories that had started to circulate surrounding the curious case of Mr Michael Transactions – I’m no fan of those after all, to be perfectly honest though, who is? Apart from the people that actually make money from them I suppose. Imagine my surprise – upon finally playing the game that I then discover that the micro-transactions are completely optional, I know they usually are anyway, but some games are very unfairly balanced to the point where they seem like the only viable option. In Mankind Divided’s case though, I really don’t understand why so many people had gotten enraged about it, you wouldn’t ever realistically need to use them unless you really needed to give yourself an unfair advantage towards the game itself. If you’re one of those people (cheeky Dennis Norden reference for any of you UK folk out there of a certain age) that have been put off of playing this game because of our evil gaming Overlord Michael Transaction – then rest assured, I’ve played it to full completion and I never planned to or even felt pressured to make any purchases and neither should you. I just thought this part was worth drawing attention too, as I know I’m almost certainly not the only one that avoided the game initially due to those. Deus Ex: Mankind Divided almost creates a problem for itself, in the sense that one of the criticisms that you can absolutely level at the game, is the way in which it tells its story. Yet the way it tells that story is probably really beneficial for developing Jensen into a much more three dimensional entity than he was in the first game. Therein lays the huge juxtaposition with this game, the way in which the developers have decided to tell the story, end up being quite forceful and a little more on the nose than perhaps it could have been. Dare I say it, even a little ham-fisted? I can’t expand upon it too deeply without going into very deep spoiler territory – but you’ll find this out very early into the game, that this game contains many allegorical themes pertaining to race and segregation – granted, in Mankind Divided, these themes are dealt with more subtly, than they are in something like Detroit Become Human, but they are there nonetheless. Whilst it isn’t over simplified particularly, I can’t help but think they could have done more with the concept than they actually did. Where it does shine, is the way in which the chosen narrative direction really elevates Jensen as a character far more than it ever did in the first game, despite that game containing more personal stakes for him as a character. This brings me onto something I alluded to earlier. Whilst themes of augmented oppression appear in the previous title, they were never really the focal point. Jensen, just by virtue of being an augmented individual, is directly affected by this. After all “he never asked for this” right? Right? Oh come on – I had to reuse that somewhere. Anyone reading this must have known that line would appear here too. This could just be me reading too much into it – let’s face it, that’s definitely happened in the past, but Jensen in this game seems much more at peace with who he is at this point in his life. Seemingly much more inclined in this game to fight for what HE believes in, as opposed to a bit of self denial that I believe ever so slightly crept into his character in the first game. Much like Human Revolution, Mankind Divided contains an absolute raft of interesting and memorable characters – potentially more so than in its predecessor. A successful by-product I believe, of having far superior side content. Koller was a personal highlight for me, I thought his character was very interesting – you don’t see all that much of him, but he remains memorable nevertheless. One of the really strong elements regarding the characters in this game is how enigmatic they often are – I was often left wondering exactly what specific characters motivations were, and in a game that’s plot is derived heavily from conspiracy theories and what ifs, having characters that you often second guess, is a commendable and realistic inclusion, it just fits tonally for them to be there. With the darker and more personal direction – that this story takes, that ends up being reflected in the games visual department. I think the darker colour schemes in places; really heighten the oppressive feel that areas of Prague have in this title. From a design perspective, I think a remarkable level of detail was put into making each individual part of Prague feel very unique. I’m underselling that too – because some of the level of detail is astounding – they are bettered slightly too by some of the one-time locations that you end up visiting as part of the main story. In much the same way Human Revolution contained a large amount of choice when it comes to exploration; Mankind Divided takes that to a much greater level than the high bar set previously, there’s a lot to be said, for just general exploration in a game like this. Michael McCann returns in Mankind Divided to provide another original soundtrack. Although, I think the quality of output is slightly better in Human Revolution. The extra variety found within that game goes a long way – I’ve been listening to the soundtrack the whole way through writing this review, and it’s quite evident – how much of it all sounds similar. That isn’t a side effect of me listening to it like that either; I think it’s just a bit less distinct, which is a real shame. Some soundtracks have the ability to immediately transport you back to wherever you’ve heard them in a given video game; this doesn’t quite manage that unfortunately. Whilst it’s perfectly fine on a technical level – I think, in Mankind Divided it just feels slightly directionless, which I hate to say, but I can’t really avoid it either. I was surprised by how little of it came flooding back, compared to its PS3 predecessor. Whereas the music is less than stellar in this game – the voice acting this time around is terrific across the board. Strong voice performances from characters are plentiful. An added bonus is you don’t have an incredibly racially insensitive character like Letitia this time around to make you really scratch your head and think “Really? That’s where we’re going now in a game released in the 2010’s.” Gameplay is only really improved upon from that found in Human Revolution – in fact it’s probably the games strongest feature. Don’t get me wrong the story is great, I just think the versatile play styles that you are given, just about edge it out for me. It’s a game that I think is instantly re-playable just to tinker around with different builds and augment setups just for continued enjoyment. I think one of the most satisfying features is the progression system – it’s one that really rewards precise play. A video game giving you a nice digital pat on the back and telling you “Here, have some more experience, because you did so well not triggering alarms or being seen by a single person” really goes a long way in making a satisfying user experience, which then lead to you having even better tools at your disposal. I can’t overstate it enough – but the inclusion of such a large freedom of choice in this game goes such a long way. Although I’ve only really played Deus Ex games stealthily, the option is there to do the complete opposite of that and still have a satisfying experience. Quite often in video games – choice is more of an illusory thing, than it is a practical proposition. The game tells you, you have choices – yet realistically there’s often one choice that’s the most viable one. It’s one of the things I really appreciate about games such as this, Hitman or Dishonoured. A new feature in this title is Breach mode – which I’ll delve into further in its DLC section further below. Another controversial choice as this is where Mr Transactions has decided to make his semi-permanent address. I guess I need to address the Elephant in the room “Hello Elephant.” Not like that! Anyway, the games length (not of the Elephant either). Or in this case lack thereof is one of heaviest criticisms I’ve seen levelled at Mankind Divided. It’s a criticism that I just can’t get onboard with either. Even if I’d paid full price for this game I’d have been more than satisfied with its length. A games length doesn’t equate to measuring its quality. Otherwise everybody would be lauding White Knight Chronicles and Star Ocean: The Last Hope as the greatest games of all time and nobodies doing that are they? I’m not going to sugar-coat this – the game is short, sometimes that’s a good thing though. It never outstays its welcome though, and the limited amount of story mission’s end up becoming even more memorable as a result. You get even more game time as a result of Breach Mode too. The game even contains two branching paths, which can lead to two distinctly different yet still both incredibly interesting missions to undertake. One of them even sees you rob a bank. It’s almost like Blade Runner meets Heat or Oceans 11. Another controversial choice made for Mankind Divided was the decisions to not only include trophies tied to breach mode – but also add in a permadeath difficulty that wipes your save upon death. I ended up being fine with both of these design decisions. If you’ve read any of my reviews before, you’d know that I love variety – so as much as I didn’t particularly enjoy Breach mode the first time, I appreciated the fact it was another thing to explore. The permadeath inclusion I found to be a brilliant idea – it’s an incredibly tense experience too, that keeps you on edge very often – because even if you are backing up your saves regularly you can still get caught out by getting overzealous and thinking you don’t need to save for a while and then end up losing hours of your progress. It ends up adding a whole new layer to the game as a result. I’ll be honest I did backup my saves fairly regularly, but I never actually had to use them, because by the time you’ll do this difficulty you’ll have a very firm grasp on many of the key mechanics in the game. It’s another one of those games where you’re probably either best playing through it blind first, and then using a guide, or playing with a guide straight from the beginning. Due in no small part to the fact this game has a litany of missable trophies and miscellaneous ones that are probably best done at specific points. This game is a fine example of trophies enriching the experience though. There’s something to be said about playing a stealthy playthrough of a game to completion, where you aren’t spotted, raise any alarms or kill anyone. It always tends to – in my case at the very least, leads to a nice sense of accomplishment. There are so many things that you probably wouldn’t see or do as a result of trophies. Are they perfect? No, because there needed to be more trophies associated with speech checks like there was in Human Revolution. That’s just a personal gripe though; they’re still there, just in much less abundance. Would I recommend this? Yes I would, it’s almost always on sale for a decent price, and it’s got an amazing amount of variety to its gameplay and most of all it’s just very enjoyable to play through. If you’re into Ultra Rare trophies this game has a couple too, so there’s that incentive too if you’re that way inclined. Although I’ve come to the conclusion that I personally prefer Human Revolution, that’s not to say I don’t very much enjoy this one, it’s just a small margin of preference. Despite both of them being great games in their own right – I think I just prefer the variety on offer in Human Revolution – I think the globe-trotting nature of some of that games mission structure just makes the game feel that little bit more grandiose and wider reaching. Its funny, I finished this game a few weeks ago in August too and i also think its a very great game. I could see the quality in every aspect of this game, everything is thought out well, the gameplay is very unique and feels so good. The trophies may seem daunting at first but they just compliment the game, you want to not be spotted in a stealth game right? it gives you all the tools you need to sneak past everything in multiple different ways and if you want to go rambo style you can do that too. But for permadeath you get rewarded for playing slow and stealthy. Some ppl say the game is short but if you re doing every sidequest and want to get every trophy, you gonna be busy for a while, i spent almost 2 weeks just playing, looting every apartment and doing every little side mission in the first big area (Prague during the day) because it just works so well and is so much fun. Its sad that the game was surrounded by so many controversies at launch (augment your pre-order, mechanical apartheid) and that the breach mode is generally known as a 'stupid micro transactions filled online mode'. Most ppl that tried it, do like it after a while and if not you can use the glitch and rush through it in a couple of hours. This game is imo sort of a 'hidden gem' from the PS4 generation but it has gotten more attention lately because of the failure of Cyberpunk 2077, because this one is a very good alternative. I am still hoping for a third game because Jensen story is open ended now. Everyone that still wants to give this a chance, now is the time to do so, its cheap and the bugs are fixed. You can get the day one edition for like 10 Euros right now and it includes some extras to compensate for launch problems. 7 hours ago, rjkclarke said: I was hoping for some Prince of Persia-esque “No No No, that’s not how that happened” as you as a player do something fundamentally wrong the game didn’t want you to do. I think I’m probably asking too much on that front though That actually did happen in the Criminal Past DLC, when i died there, the therapist said something like: That cant be what happened, please tell me the real story, Adam. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destructor-8 Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 15 hours ago, rjkclarke said: This is true - quality does tend to stand the test of time. Yeah the name is a tough one - I definitely agree with that one. Mine took a while. Even though it was just smashing the names of two of my favourite songs together in the end. One is very specifically about memories too - which I thought seemed pretty relevant if I'm going to end up discussing a lot of my old games and experiences. You can always drop me a message or something if you want to bounce some ideas around. I'm not suggesting my feedback might necessarily be helpful or anything, but if you wanted to, the option is there. You've got some outrageously awesome racing game accomplishments on your profile, so I'd guess you'd lean towards having it slightly related to that maybe. That seems like a decent idea - to start it and go from there. I fully expected to change the name of mine - now I definitely don't think I will. I've grown to quite like it. However pretentious the name might sound .... Sounds like you've got a good positive mindset about it though, which is important. As I said previously, I look forward to having a look when you do. That's pretty cool that you came up with the name that way, so it definitely looks good as a title of a thread like this whilst also a good theme to go by. Yes I'll do that cheers & yep that's what the main theme will be but also hoping to talk about some other games as well eventually. I'm hoping to improve as I go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrooba Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 3 and a half years in the making, and you've done it again @rjkclarke! 11 hours ago, rjkclarke said: Another controversial choice made for Mankind Divided was the decisions to not only include trophies tied to breach mode – but also add in a permadeath difficulty that wipes your save upon death. This reminds me a ton of Dead Space 2's hardcore difficulty where you're only given 3 save slots for the entire game, and also Mein Leben in Wolfenstein 2 which is probably the more better comparison. ? These types of things are always the most challenging for sure; there's tons of games which offer challenges, but they're the sort of ones where you can just complete them and never touch them again, but THIS type of challenge that demands absolute perfection is always the mark of lots of practice needed. 11 hours ago, rjkclarke said: Michael McCann returns in Mankind Divided to provide another original soundtrack. I decided to give some of the OST a listen; the main theme is filled with sustained and held notes. I actually really like this theme; it sounds pretty beautiful. However, it definitely seems as though McCann was aiming for a more ambient take with this OST. Not that that's a bad thing, but I think the most memorable part of any song is the melody; for this reason I always think David Wise is one of the kings of ambient gaming OSTs, especially with his work on Donkey Kong Country. Another great review man, I look forward to the upcoming ones! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kopite Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 On 9/10/2021 at 6:36 PM, rjkclarke said: Thanks!! I'm very glad to hear that. that bit in bold seems to work well enough for me haha - I'll reply in sections, because that's a lot to put in one quote post. I appreciate the really in depth reply though. It was an amazing read. Glad at least someone enjoyed it lol On 9/10/2021 at 6:36 PM, rjkclarke said: I don't know how I've managed that either - it's not exactly like this is an obscure title, that people don't absolutely adore either, so you'd think I would have got spoiled on something, but nope - pretty much everything was completely new to me. Apart from the bit leading up to the Evil Forest which is the only part of the game I'd actually played up until recently. There are plenty of games still being released that prove that turn based battle systems can still work, but I think these days Square Enix want universal appeal. I can understand that from the point that they're a business, but I don't think the more action oriented stuff works in quite the same way. It sounds like they struck a pretty decent balance in FF7REmake though, so that sounds like pretty decent progress at least. All 3 PS1 era titles absolutely have their strengths and weaknesses. I'm very fond of all three of them - although I've very much got the unpopular opinion of liking VII the least of those three. What does work in VII's favour is how you end up noticing on multiple playthroughs. I do like it a hell of a lot too, it's just very small margins of preference for me, among these three titles. So it isn't like I think VII is lesser or anything as a result. Well I'm glad you were able to as I'm sure it made the whole experience more enjoyable! Yes FFVIIR from what I've played so far (Up to Chapter 10 now) does have the best balance of the fast paced stylish action of a film or anime, combined with some of the control of a turn based RPG. I hope they at least stick with that style for the rest of the FFVII Remake series (who knows how many games that'll be, hopefully no more than 3) and would love for them to make that the main basis for the new games, but alas XVI looks potentially more action like than XV. I think most people who have played those 3 games would think the same. Very small margins between the 3 overall. On 9/10/2021 at 6:36 PM, rjkclarke said: It's a real testament to their writing skill at this point isn't it - especially when you factor in I was playing it fresh in 2021 and had a much more positive experience with it as a story than I've had with modern titles with an incredibly lavish budget, top notch voice acting and better graphics. What you said, makes perfect sense - them using no voiced dialogue in a sense does allow you more focus. I don't think the series suffers, with the introduction of voice overs either - in fact it's the thing that just about edges out Final Fantasy X for me. It could just be bias trickling in though - as that game really blew my mind when I was younger, I couldn't get my head around how much of a leap it was from VIII which would have been the last one I'd played. X clearly had a few moments where more so nowadays you can tell it was the start of the voice acting journey for Final Fantasy games. Some lines come across a bit stiff, or slightly out of place or tone, but overall I agree it was very well done and the actors really made those characters stand out more. I've met some IRL as you know and would love to meet more. On 9/10/2021 at 6:36 PM, rjkclarke said: I found that one a really tough one to skate around as far as spoilers go - he does have a revelatory experience like main characters often do, but it's so spoilerific I couldn't really mention it in any detail - let's just call it an existential crisis and leave it there. His character structure just seemed like something to talk about, because he does seem so different to other protagonists in the series I think. He's very unique in that regard. It was that difference that made me really fond of his character - some of the other protagonists, Cloud in particular take a lot longer to reach their definitive EUREKA moment as characters. Squall is a bit like that too - but the way they wrote FFVIII is much more metatextual about it, especially the way everyone has to tell him that he's all of these things that he thinks he isn't - "we know, but they don't know - Dramatic Irony mate!!" as my old screenwriting lecturer used to tell us. On an unrelated note - I'm pencilling in a review for November 28 this year to dedicate to my old lecturer, I found out he died when I was playing Tales of Zestiria a few years ago and now I can't think of that game without thinking of him, so I think it'd be nice to talk about him a bit before that review - he was an incredible mind indeed. It should give people a bit more of an idea on why I sometimes slip into vague metaphors accidentally, because those were that guys bread and butter and they were always so funny. So my inferior ones are a by-product of that. Yes most definitely. 100% agree. Nice that you are able to dedicate a review to someone who clearly had a big influence and left a lasting impression. On 9/10/2021 at 6:36 PM, rjkclarke said: Vivi might be my favourite Final Fantasy character now - he's very close to the top if he isn't actually my favourite. I just felt such an overwhelming amount of empathy for him as a character. I know you bring up Lost Odyssey later on, and we'll get there, but Kaim from Lost Odyssey elicited a similar reaction from me. Their specific stories just kind of resonate in a very unique way where you can't help but want them to be happier. That's a naff description of course, but I'm skating around spoilers again. I'd have loved to have broken my rule and mentioned spoilers, but I would have gone twice as long just talking about Vivi and other characters. I think Zidane and Han, have that similar rogue-ish likeability. Where they appear like they couldn't care less on the surface, but really they'd die for you in a heartbeat. I mean, that is probably a case of me overthinking and reading too much into the games characters but, that's how I saw it. That Quina thing is really unusual - because Quina gets possibly even less character development than Amarant - in fact I'd say they almost certainly do. I'd never argue they were a particularly deep or nuanced character that's for sure. Although one moment when you are in Bran- Bul completely caught me off guard, and I found quite sad, which was the simplistic way in which Quina tries to make Zidane feel better, in the only way that they can, by saying how much Zidane's presence has enriched their life, that was really nice. I think I have trophies to thank for how much I liked Quina personally, if there wasn't a requirement to see all the games ATE's then I never would have seen half of the hilarious things that they get up to. Those really made me laugh. Well you know he is up there for me given I've got him as my PSN avatar lol I think if you were to put anything behind spoilers in this thread about FFIX apart from Zidane, it'd be about Vivi. Yeah that's very true, you can miss so much of certain characters dialogue and actions and therefore moments that can make you appreciate those characters more and strengthen your bonf with them. It's a very reasonable comparison between Zidan and Han. On 9/10/2021 at 6:36 PM, rjkclarke said: I think I'd just be content with being alive still at 90 - if I still have the dexterity to play video games all the better. I bet @KindaSabbath - Will still be pumping out video's for Trials when he's 92 - wowing us all with his immense progress in Trials - Zimmerframe Fusion of the Blood Dragon!! I agree - you could make a hell of a theatre production out of FFIX, great shout man!! There's so much scope to make that amazing too, you've already got an amazing soundtrack you can play as part of the show. The costumes would look amazing in the flesh, and the anthropomorphic characters would look great on a stage - kind of like how the lions look in the Lion King stage show if you've ever seen any clips of that. Fascinating point you made there about the jarring changes (I agree with pretty much all of what you said there), and about your personal trepidation going into Final Fantasy IX - I actually have experienced something like that recently with Yakuza, although from everything I've been lead to believe, much like Final Fantasy IX Yakuza 7 turned out to be great - the transition into a turn based fully fledged JRPG has actually worked wonders - and they are keeping the series roots alive through the Judgment series too, so people could always go back to the familiar play style with those if they wished to. Trials - Zimmerframe Fusion of the Blood Dragon is a game I'd play lol I have seen some clips of the Lion King show, and yeah could you imagine what they could do with one based on FFIX? Could reach out to a whole new audience. Yeah I read about that Yakuza being a turn based RPG. I'd actually probably give it a go if I had the time lol On 9/10/2021 at 6:36 PM, rjkclarke said: I think the visuals in IX just about edge out X for me now - There's a real artistic flair to some of the stuff you see in IX that is there in other titles for sure, but IX has the sort that you could probably view in a bubble outside of the game itself without any context and probably still discuss with someone at length about what a specific image means - much like you can with a lot of art. Had I played Final Fantasy IX before playing FF XIII-2 - THIS would have been the one that I would have picked to write that essay, about conveying emotion through the use of music. I don't throw the word genius around lightly - but I think I definitely might bust it out for Uematsu that's for sure, I definitely think that's deserved in his case. I loved reading about how much, he enjoyed making IX's soundtrack too, and that love of his craft comes across so well in the final product. I think the ending of Lost Odyssey is a little bit - rushed? Perhaps that's not quite right, but it certainly doesn't give you the pay off that you probably expected from it. I think, the way it sort of wraps itself up doesn't really leave it very much scope for sequels, I mean - you could always create different immortals to build stories around, because that concept is incredibly strong - especially the way you unpack their stories by exploring those wonderful flashback short stories. It just felt a bit I don't know closed off. I adore Lost Odyssey though, and I really did want to see it become a series in it's own right, but now I think it'll just remain one of those what ifs? Of things that could have been. I'll certainly be getting that straight away if that ever gets a PS4 or PS5 remaster. More than anything it has that authentic Final Fantasy feel to the way it tells both the overarching narrative and the way it deals with it's characters. Resonant Arc's not wrong though, from what you said of their review, it does have a few glaring problems that you just can't ignore. I very much appreciated FFIX's art style and still do to this day. It does hold up extremely well. Surely anyone who has experienced the joy and sorrow (in a good way) of Uematsu's music in a Final Fantasy game has called him a genius. Yeah, it was certainly a very interesting watch and I got to appreciate Lost Odyssey for what it was trying to do. If it had come out on Playstation 3 way back when, I would have picked it up no question. It did seem like a slight missed opportunity with it's ending though and the payoff, which was a shame. On 9/10/2021 at 6:36 PM, rjkclarke said: Some of the mini games are so innocuous - you could so easily forget that they were even there. I want to say it's a strength, without trophies I never would have probably thought to talk to the hippo kid so that his Mum makes Vivi do a running mini game with him to stop him being a lardo, I would have just walked on by. Same with the Nero brothers shuffle one - it's probably so easy to miss that one, and you don't really get anything other than gil from it, but the fact it's there is really cool. I had more fun doing the jump rope trophy - it has that satisfying feeling you get when you know you are gradually making progress and getting better and better at something, so the payoff at the end just feels that little bit more satisfying. Bloodlust just bored me senseless - it's not fun in any whatsoever, I just can't sugar coat it - I can only equate it to that famous saying " lay back and think of England " haha I'm so glad, that you enjoyed the review. It was a hell of a lot fun to write, if not also incredibly draining. Also frustrating at times too, because I was really struggling how to word things without spoiling some really key moments. Thanks!! I also look forward to many more discussions to come, whatever it's about - should be a blast. Yeah they really are, and I haven't studied the full trophy list properly (the Jump Rope trophy stood out like a sore thumb lol) that it seems that at least some of it was designed in a way to get the player to experience as much of the game as possible, which is always nice. Bloodlust....well yeah I'll look forward to that trophy (not!) in the future lol It was a really cracking review, and well worth the wait! Looking forward to more discussions! On 9/10/2021 at 6:36 PM, rjkclarke said: Oh yeah - you aren't kidding.... That's really powerful, made my arm hairs stand on end. Thanks for sharing that!! Damn it, that's almost making me want to Ultima FFIX off of it's pedestal in my mind. The music in that video alone, just illustrates how majestic just the musical component alone in this game is. Such a wonderful and powerful song from a really moving scene, which we can't talk about due to spoilers lol On 9/10/2021 at 6:36 PM, rjkclarke said: Trouble with the trolley eh? Is something that I, and probably many other people heard quite a few times as a result of one of the Orb challenges in Spyro 2 - it's not really difficult or anything, just a bit frustrating. I think it's become a bit of a meme at this point. You enjoyed Sly 1 the most? It's not often you hear that one. I can absolutely respect that though. It's certainly a more streamlined and pure experience than the other Sly games - I think their attempts to vary the gameplay somewhat hamper the later titles a little bit. Especially the fourth one, that has a little too much of Bentleys hacking in it, which really slows the whole pace of of the game down quite a lot. Looking forward to that then lol reminds me of getting stuck on Uncharted 4 on Crushing difficulty on one particular section, and the last line one of the enemies would say everytime after it had loaded up after another Nathan Drake death in that South African accent was "That's thick jungle over there, eh?!". Man it became a running irritating gag to me and my life, like the sound of me dying to a Clicker time after time in The Last of Us lol Yeah, I just appreciated that streamlined nature. To be honest, I got a bit frustrated with the more openness of the other 3 games, though I still enjoyed them. On 9/10/2021 at 6:36 PM, rjkclarke said: Yes!! That's unfortunately the case, you're so right, I'm about to start Beholder 2 tonight. I just couldn't face playing any games for a little bit after finishing Final Fantasy IX as you rightly said things can seem a bit less engaging as a result, so I needed to chill out for a bit before, I had the urge to jump back into the mix. Good plan! I had the same kind of experience film wise once after watching The Butterfly Effect. On 9/11/2021 at 0:32 PM, KindaSabbath said: Final Fantasy: Outside of the extremely passionate experiences I hear from many regarding these games. The music is a big draw for me here. Almost anything I've watched regarding these games, I always think the music is so freaking good, man. Someone who knows what quality music sounds like, respect ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rjkclarke Posted September 14, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) On 13/09/2021 at 7:20 AM, DrBloodmoney said: Great write up as ever mate - I must admit, I haven't touched this one, despite liking Human Revolution quite a bit, and I think hat is primarily for the reasons you were initially sceptical too - the micro-transactional stuff and the subsequent brouhaha it invited at the time of release. I think that was enough to shove it from the "definitely" pile to the "maybe" one, and the "maybe" pile always sits on shifting sands - games have a tendency to just slip away into the ether when they sit there for too long! You're not the first person in recent years to espouse the virtues of it though, and with Deathloop potetially being the final Arkane game to make it to Sony consoles, having an immersive sim waiting in the wings might well bring it back to the forefront for me again! Thanks man !! It sat on my maybe pile for a long while too - to be completely honest, even though I've been a fan of the series for a long time, I was still very put off by those micro-transactions. Part of me doesn't think I would have played it, had it not been a freebie with PS+ - so I guess it's another thing to be thankful to that for. That'll be a sad day indeed if Deathloop is the last Arkane title - I'm not the most qualified person to talk about the output of Arkane. I've only really played the original Dishonoured, but I really like that and it's good to read from you and others how much they manage to realise the potential that is so clearly on display in that first Dishonoured. I'm absolutely planning to play the rest of their back catalogue on PlayStation, when I can so I look forward to that. It'd be awesome if you did check out Mankind Divided. There's a whole lot to appreciate that's for sure. On 13/09/2021 at 7:20 AM, DrBloodmoney said: How dare you! nah - just kidding! I didn't invent the concept of the audience participation, and I certainly don't get to claim dibs on it! - I think it's a great idea, particularly if you're feeling lost as to what to look at next, so have at it! I just wanted to be absolutely sure - before I committed myself to it. Last thing I'd want to do was to hack you off or feel like I was trying to piggyback off of what you already done so brilliantly. We'll see if anyone even requests any, that's entirely out of my hands now that I've given people that option. ? I Appreciate the feedback though. If anything, like you said it should help if I get to a point again, where I can't think of a specific direction to go, as writing about a game I hadn't thought about for a while might trigger some ideas about something else. On 13/09/2021 at 9:29 AM, SHADOW-KILLER-S2 said: Its funny, I finished this game a few weeks ago in August too and i also think its a very great game. I could see the quality in every aspect of this game, everything is thought out well, the gameplay is very unique and feels so good. The trophies may seem daunting at first but they just compliment the game, you want to not be spotted in a stealth game right? it gives you all the tools you need to sneak past everything in multiple different ways and if you want to go rambo style you can do that too. But for permadeath you get rewarded for playing slow and stealthy. Some ppl say the game is short but if you re doing every sidequest and want to get every trophy, you gonna be busy for a while, i spent almost 2 weeks just playing, looting every apartment and doing every little side mission in the first big area (Prague during the day) because it just works so well and is so much fun. It is a very good game isn't it. It just works on a multitude of levels, whereas some games tend to just excel in a few this one's of a very high standard pretty much across the board. I guess people sort of talk about the length in the context of it being an RPG - I think you could just about call it one right? I know the term RPG is getting incredibly broad now, I guess Mankind Divided is only really short by those standards. I agree, that there's definitely a lot to keep you busy that's for sure, very little of it feels a chore too, so that's another big plus for the game. I loved the permadeath difficulty, so it's nice to see I'm not the only one that seemed to not mind it's inclusion. On 13/09/2021 at 9:29 AM, SHADOW-KILLER-S2 said: Its sad that the game was surrounded by so many controversies at launch (augment your pre-order, mechanical apartheid) and that the breach mode is generally known as a 'stupid micro transactions filled online mode'. Most ppl that tried it, do like it after a while and if not you can use the glitch and rush through it in a couple of hours. This game is imo sort of a 'hidden gem' from the PS4 generation but it has gotten more attention lately because of the failure of Cyberpunk 2077, because this one is a very good alternative. I am still hoping for a third game because Jensen story is open ended now. Everyone that still wants to give this a chance, now is the time to do so, its cheap and the bugs are fixed. You can get the day one edition for like 10 Euros right now and it includes some extras to compensate for launch problems. Oooohhh well said - I'll be honest I'd actually completely forgotten about the augment your pre-order thing. Thanks for bringing that up, I guess that's a peril of reviewing a game you played the bulk of three years ago, you do tend to miss the odd bit here and there. Wasn't that augment your pre-order thing like a ridiculous tiered system too, where the more money you paid, the more in-game advantages that you got as a result? What a silly idea that was. You know - until you mentioned that I never would have considered Mankind Divided a hidden gem, but I suppose in a way it is. It's a lot less loved than it deserves to be that's for sure. I think it's one of the biggest examples of peoples initial reactions to it, souring people on the whole game in general. I feel like Middle Earth: Shadow of War has also fallen into that same category now - now that much of the micro-transactional component is out of the game I'd probably call that one a hidden gem too. I'm hoping for a third Jensen game too. Ideally - I think the best way to go with the series would be to have one more Jensen game - and then do a remake of the original game. I'm not exactly the biggest supporter of every game needs a remake. But playing the first Deus Ex game in Mankind Divided engine, with a bit of expansion could be absolutely incredible. On 13/09/2021 at 9:29 AM, SHADOW-KILLER-S2 said: That actually did happen in the Criminal Past DLC, when i died there, the therapist said something like: That cant be what happened, please tell me the real story, Adam. That must have been another thing that I just forgot then. That must have been my memory just being very hazy . Funny really when you think about it, that that's one of the things I was hankering for and it sounds like it was there all along. That was silly of me. On 13/09/2021 at 0:44 PM, Destructor-8 said: That's pretty cool that you came up with the name that way, so it definitely looks good as a title of a thread like this whilst also a good theme to go by. Yes I'll do that cheers & yep that's what the main theme will be but also hoping to talk about some other games as well eventually. I'm hoping to improve as I go. Looks as if you're off to a great start so far!! Like I said - I'm looking forward to where you take it, and what it'll grow into. On 13/09/2021 at 1:36 PM, Shrooba said: 3 and a half years in the making, and you've done it again @rjkclarke! Thank you!! I suspect by the time I end up reviewing Skyrim it will have been about ten years in the making haha. Unless someone decided they want to nominate that for a review before I actually get to finish up the DLC for it at least. Although. they might be disappointed if half that review turned out to be WHY CAN'T OBLIVION HAVE TROPHIES, the other half objectivity haha . Or something like that, I love me some Oblivion - that game was fantastic. On 13/09/2021 at 1:36 PM, Shrooba said: This reminds me a ton of Dead Space 2's hardcore difficulty where you're only given 3 save slots for the entire game, and also Mein Leben in Wolfenstein 2 which is probably the more better comparison. These types of things are always the most challenging for sure; there's tons of games which offer challenges, but they're the sort of ones where you can just complete them and never touch them again, but THIS type of challenge that demands absolute perfection is always the mark of lots of practice needed. I never played Dead Space 2 - I've always wanted to, but I think by the time I'd finished up Dead Space a couple of years ago I was hoping they'd put the trilogy out on PS4 and I'd just play it on there, but it hasn't happened yet. Those types of challenges are definitely the sort you end up with a few digital battle scars as a result. That demand of absolute perfection you mentioned is probably one of the reasons people get such a huge sense of accomplishment out of those sorts of things, if I had to guess. Makes all that effort and practice seem worthwhile in the end. On 13/09/2021 at 1:36 PM, Shrooba said: I decided to give some of the OST a listen; the main theme is filled with sustained and held notes. I actually really like this theme; it sounds pretty beautiful. However, it definitely seems as though McCann was aiming for a more ambient take with this OST. Not that that's a bad thing, but I think the most memorable part of any song is the melody; for this reason I always think David Wise is one of the kings of ambient gaming OSTs, especially with his work on Donkey Kong Country. Another great review man, I look forward to the upcoming ones! I was probably a little harsh on the OST to be perfectly honest. I don't think it's bad at all. I think McCann set such a high bar for himself in Human Revolution that as a result, this is - well it's not quite as memorable this time around. I'm probably just being over critical of it. Interesting you mention ambience regarding Donkey Kong Country, that game is so bizarre in the fact that it has, for me at least an incredibly - at times at least, relaxing soundtrack that really chills you out. Whilst the gameplay can do quite the opposite. I can't remember if it was Donkey Kong Country 1 or 2, but there's a level I remember where you're shooting yourself into spinning barrels around an area covered in thorns, I remember when I was younger finding that so tense, because one wrong move and you're throwing your Monkey/Gorilla buddies into a pile of thorns. Yet the music is so calming - weird juxtaposition that was. Could have been the fact I'm overly nervous or something too - who knows ? On 13/09/2021 at 9:46 PM, The_Kopite said: Yes FFVIIR from what I've played so far (Up to Chapter 10 now) does have the best balance of the fast paced stylish action of a film or anime, combined with some of the control of a turn based RPG. I hope they at least stick with that style for the rest of the FFVII Remake series (who knows how many games that'll be, hopefully no more than 3) and would love for them to make that the main basis for the new games, but alas XVI looks potentially more action like than XV. I think most people who have played those 3 games would think the same. Very small margins between the 3 overall. That's good to hear about FFVIIR - they do seem to have struck a more healthy balance from what you've said, that don't seem to put off new and old fans. So they ought to be commended for that. Nice to see you're making some more progress with it too. In my mind FFVII couldn't ever be top anyway - because, well - it has Cait Sith in it - and any game that has Cait Sith in it is a worse product just by their inclusion ? - it does have Red XIII though to balance it out - or Nanny's Key as me and one of my friends call him ? On 13/09/2021 at 9:46 PM, The_Kopite said: X clearly had a few moments where more so nowadays you can tell it was the start of the voice acting journey for Final Fantasy games. Some lines come across a bit stiff, or slightly out of place or tone, but overall I agree it was very well done and the actors really made those characters stand out more. I've met some IRL as you know and would love to meet more. I believe that stiffness was just so the lip syncing was a little less jarring, so I can give that a bit of a free pass - which is why Yuna seems to........ Talk......... A little bit..... Like she.....Was......... Trained by William Shatner.......... To act. It's pretty good for a first attempt that's for sure - part of me would have loved to have heard what the Scottish Dwarves that live in Conde Petie in FFIX would have sounded like. I guess we'll find out if we ever watch that animated series that was announced recently for FFIX. I want to voice Quina haha On 13/09/2021 at 9:46 PM, The_Kopite said: Yes most definitely. 100% agree. Nice that you are able to dedicate a review to someone who clearly had a big influence and left a lasting impression. He sure did - I'm sure I'm not the only one he left a lasting impression on either, he was an incredibly wise and funny man, that I'd love to talk about a bit, especially as finding about his death had a pretty profound effect on me whilst I was playing Tales of Zestiria. So it might not be all that relevant - but I'm going to do it anyway. On 13/09/2021 at 9:46 PM, The_Kopite said: Well you know he is up there for me given I've got him as my PSN avatar lol I think if you were to put anything behind spoilers in this thread about FFIX apart from Zidane, it'd be about Vivi. I think I have that avatar myself - might be prudent to give Sly Cooper's one a rest for a little bit. This is true - Vivi's story deserves to pretty much remain untouched for any that haven't played the game and might want to at some point. For me it was a huge part of what made the game so memorable. On 13/09/2021 at 9:46 PM, The_Kopite said: Trials - Zimmerframe Fusion of the Blood Dragon is a game I'd play lol I have seen some clips of the Lion King show, and yeah could you imagine what they could do with one based on FFIX? Could reach out to a whole new audience. Yeah I read about that Yakuza being a turn based RPG. I'd actually probably give it a go if I had the time lol That'd probably be the only Trials game I'd manage to complete, unfortunately I want that FFIX stage show now - It's a universal enough story I think, that it could work too. But I doubt anywhere would realistically have the budget to do it, which is a shame - it'd be much more likely to happen in Japan I think. Yakuza going turn based is exactly what I didn't want - I thought it would slow it down too much, but I'm glad that it's transition has pretty much been a resounding success for the most part. So I'm glad as usual my own trepidation seems to have been for nothing. On 13/09/2021 at 9:46 PM, The_Kopite said: Surely anyone who has experienced the joy and sorrow (in a good way) of Uematsu's music in a Final Fantasy game has called him a genius. Yeah, it was certainly a very interesting watch and I got to appreciate Lost Odyssey for what it was trying to do. If it had come out on Playstation 3 way back when, I would have picked it up no question. It did seem like a slight missed opportunity with it's ending though and the payoff, which was a shame. You'll get no argument from me about him being a genius. Yeah - missed opportunity and wasted potential are probably the two phrases I'd probably throw around the most myself when it comes to Lost Odyssey. I'm going to check out that Resonant Arc video this week if I get a chance, that seems like a really interesting watch. On 13/09/2021 at 9:46 PM, The_Kopite said: Yeah they really are, and I haven't studied the full trophy list properly (the Jump Rope trophy stood out like a sore thumb lol) that it seems that at least some of it was designed in a way to get the player to experience as much of the game as possible, which is always nice. Bloodlust....well yeah I'll look forward to that trophy (not!) in the future lol It was a really cracking review, and well worth the wait! Looking forward to more discussions! It's actually a pretty decent trophy list outside of Bloodlust and the Jump Rope one. Like you said, they seem to be designed with encouraging you to see practically everything that they put into their game. It really makes you appreciate how much content they managed to pack into a game like this - especially when you consider how light on side content something like FFVIII was - maybe it wasn't, it just seems like it is, compared to how much there is to do in this one. Thanks again for the feedback. I joined a backlog event recently - and I put down Resident Evil 4 as one of the next games I'm going to play in the next few months, so we'll be able to have a nice little further discussion about that one I reckon. On 13/09/2021 at 9:46 PM, The_Kopite said: Uncharted 4 on Crushing difficulty on one particular section, and the last line one of the enemies would say everytime after it had loaded up after another Nathan Drake death in that South African accent was "That's thick jungle over there, eh?!". Man it became a running irritating gag to me and my life, like the sound of me dying to a Clicker time after time in The Last of Us lol Haha - I think many of us have had experiences like that in Uncharted. I think for that very reason alone - playing Naughty Dog titles at their hardest moments - is probably an experience best had whilst your TV is muted..... Or you could just make it fun, like every time you die in Crash Bandicoot and Crash goes WWAAAAAAAAAAA and then you go "what is it good for." Might stop you from using your controller as a tennis ball. On 13/09/2021 at 9:46 PM, The_Kopite said: Yeah, I just appreciated that streamlined nature. To be honest, I got a bit frustrated with the more openness of the other 3 games, though I still enjoyed them. That's definitely a great point - it works in some games more than others. I'm sure I'm probably in the minority, but I never liked the fact that you essentially end up playing as Sly less and less as the series progressed. I think he's far and away the most fun character to play as - and particularly in the fourth title, he just gets sidelined a bit. Shame really. Edited September 15, 2021 by rjkclarke 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaManSmevz Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 21 hours ago, The_Kopite said: think most people who have played those 3 games would think the same. Very small margins between the 3 overall. 100%. They're all such high quality, and each one was such a big deal right from the time of release. It's been two decades and my favorite of the trio still depends on what day you ask me? 21 hours ago, The_Kopite said: Surely anyone who has experienced the joy and sorrow (in a good way) of Uematsu's music in a Final Fantasy game has called him a genius. Guilty here as well. For whatever reason, the Chrono Trigger soundtrack has been bouncin around in my head for a while, and the immensely talented Yasunori Mitsuda did a stupendous job, but that handful of Uematsu tracks still gave him a run for his money. I remember just sitting there letting Sealed Door play on loop, utterly mesmerized. Just crazy to think he's been that good since even then! 18 hours ago, rjkclarke said: We'll see if anyone even requests any, that's entirely out of my hands now that I've given people that option. As a matter of fact, I skimmed through your thread and did not see anything on The Phantom Pain, I would love to hear your thoughts on that! I got the hundo for Ground Zeroes earlier this year, and I plan on firing up Phantom at some point, but from what I understand it's quite the undertaking as far as completion! Plus I've heard such mixed things... although to be honest, as beloved a franchise as it is, I don't think any of the Metal Gear games are without their criticisms - save maybe Snake Eater. 18 hours ago, rjkclarke said: I believe that stiffness was just so the lip syncing was a little less jarring, so I can give that a bit of a free pass - which is why Yuna seems to........ Talk......... A little bit..... Like she.....Was......... Trained by William Shatner.......... To act. To be fair, we still get some of that today? During the point man opportunity for the Colorado mission in Hitman, this lady was like "Alright people. Let's get TO it" and I couldn't help but marvel at how there's still work for people whose best takes are... well, that! Dang, that was kinda mean... and with my luck, that voice actress probably reads this thread... Have you ever considered looking into voice acting for games? You already do it, may as well get paid! 18 hours ago, rjkclarke said: I think for that very reason alone - playing Naughty Dog titles at their hardest moments - is probably an experience best had whilst your TV is muted..... Or you could just make it fun, like every time you die in Crash Bandicoot and Crash goes WWAAAAAAAAAAA and then you go "what is it good for." Might stop you from using your controller as a tennis ball. ABSOLUTELY NUFFIN!! ...sorry. you can't let a reference to that song go without response, I don't know about the UK but that's against the law in the states. Good gawd, y'all!! I've only finished the first Uncharted, and I can already relate with you both! Elena lamely saying "Oh no!" during that god awful jeep sequence was horrible. Or one of several fire fights, you get killed and there's this guy, with this infuriating cockiness, saying "not so tough now!" Like fuck off, there's fifty of you dickheads!! Damn, gettin worked up just thinkin about it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KindaSabbath Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 Apologies it's taken me so long to catch up on your checklist my dude. I have a confession - I liked your Deus Ex review before I had time to read it. I knew it would be excellent so it's just my way of saying "hey man, I see what you're doing over here, I'm gonna put some time aside to read it properly" - and that I have. I have another confession... I have never played nor been interested in a Deus Ex game. Until now! I think for me; I'm typically just not one who gets hyped or really plays many big AAA titles. Add a bit of noise from Mr Michael Transaction and that's a recipe for me to just give it a hard pass. I do very much enjoy a bit of stealth in my games, though. I'm thinking the old Hitman games and the original Dishonored here. Again, I'm rarely upto date with newer releases. I like the sound of this being a bit grittier and darker in nature. That floats my boat. I'm always dubious of games that have lots of DLC, so it's good to hear that you found it enjoyable in this case. I think the combination of solid gameplay, lots of content and your superb writing has made me rethink my stance on these games. Coupled with the fact they go for peanuts, often. Throw in a couple of Ultra Rares and shit, call me Sally, I'm sold ? (I could potentially use this for the UR event) So as is becoming a habit - the wishlist/backlog continues to grow. I think the only difference between the two at this point is which ones I've told my wife I've purchased vs what I've not mentioned ? In regards to reviews/requests - I've been checking through your first post and no doubt I'll be editing this after checking it again and apologising, but, if you haven't put one up for Yakuza 0, that would be a request from me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destructor-8 Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 On 13/09/2021 at 9:46 PM, The_Kopite said: Surely anyone who has experienced the joy and sorrow (in a good way) of Uematsu's music in a Final Fantasy game has called him a genius. Those games from that period have the absolute best soundtracks I've ever heard in a game. There's even been Japanese bands since then that have done brilliant renditions of those tracks. If I had to pick the best of all time, then it would be these games. On 14/09/2021 at 1:08 AM, rjkclarke said: Looks as if you're off to a great start so far!! Like I said - I'm looking forward to where you take it, and what it'll grow into. Yes it's got off to a great start so far & I can't thank you enough for the last little push that I needed. I'm going to do the best I can with it. It really has been great hanging around here more often, especially when it's involved great games & some nice general chat as well. 5 hours ago, YaManSmevz said: 100%. They're all such high quality, and each one was such a big deal right from the time of release. It's been two decades and my favorite of the trio still depends on what day you ask me Yeah those games as I mentioned before have the best soundtracks ever & that period was probably the most important for these types of games. It really shows the level of quality when you prefer all the games as much as each other. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaManSmevz Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 3 hours ago, KindaSabbath said: Apologies it's taken me so long to catch up on your checklist my dude. I have a confession - I liked your Deus Ex review before I had time to read it. I knew it would be excellent so it's just my way of saying "hey man, I see what you're doing over here, I'm gonna put some time aside to read it properly" - and that I have. 3 hours ago, KindaSabbath said: So as is becoming a habit - the wishlist/backlog continues to grow. I think the only difference between the two at this point is which ones I've told my wife I've purchased vs what I've not mentioned Get out of my head, Sabbath!! I operate the exact same way on both fronts?? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjkclarke Posted September 15, 2021 Author Share Posted September 15, 2021 6 hours ago, YaManSmevz said: As a matter of fact, I skimmed through your thread and did not see anything on The Phantom Pain, I would love to hear your thoughts on that! I got the hundo for Ground Zeroes earlier this year, and I plan on firing up Phantom at some point, but from what I understand it's quite the undertaking as far as completion! Plus I've heard such mixed things... although to be honest, as beloved a franchise as it is, I don't think any of the Metal Gear games are without their criticisms - save maybe Snake Eater. Alright then sounds great - I'll add The Phantom Pain to the list, do you mind if I do Ground Zeroes first? Those two are pretty intrinsically linked. So I feel like I should cover them both. That'll be cool anyway, be the first time Metal Gear Solid makes it's way into this thread aside from my Avatar obviously. I'll be 100% honest about The Phantom Pain that's for sure criticisms and all. 6 hours ago, YaManSmevz said: To be fair, we still get some of that today During the point man opportunity for the Colorado mission in Hitman, this lady was like "Alright people. Let's get TO it" and I couldn't help but marvel at how there's still work for people whose best takes are... well, that! Dang, that was kinda mean... and with my luck, that voice actress probably reads this thread... Have you ever considered looking into voice acting for games? You already do it, may as well get paid! This is true! She's the one you can mess up with the battering ram right? She won't be picking up any awards for her acting abilities I don't think. Much like the girl that goes mental if you walk over the carpet she's vacuuming in Erica - I mean talk about an overreaction, just go over the carpet again. I don't think they'd take my weird interpretations on voice acting - the way my brain works I'd probably do Spyro the Dragon as Ian McKellen or something equally unusual and I'd be fired out of a cannon on day one! 6 hours ago, YaManSmevz said: ABSOLUTELY NUFFIN!! ...sorry. you can't let a reference to that song go without response, I don't know about the UK but that's against the law in the states. Good gawd, y'all!! I've only finished the first Uncharted, and I can already relate with you both! Elena lamely saying "Oh no!" during that god awful jeep sequence was horrible. Or one of several fire fights, you get killed and there's this guy, with this infuriating cockiness, saying "not so tough now!" Like fuck off, there's fifty of you dickheads!! Damn, gettin worked up just thinkin about it At least someone got it - that was exactly where I was going with it, just seemed right y'know ? One time my frustration turned into fits of laughter when; I think it was the second game - and you know how Nate flops around like a fish a bit sometimes when he dies? Well I had the fat Drake skin on and he died I think to a grenade and he landed in that position that Peter Griffin goes in in Family Guy where he falls over and has both arms behind his back and his leg all twisted. I laughed so much at that. Definitely diffused the frustration. 3 hours ago, KindaSabbath said: I have another confession... I have never played nor been interested in a Deus Ex game. Until now! I think for me; I'm typically just not one who gets hyped or really plays many big AAA titles. Add a bit of noise from Mr Michael Transaction and that's a recipe for me to just give it a hard pass. I do very much enjoy a bit of stealth in my games, though. I'm thinking the old Hitman games and the original Dishonored here. Again, I'm rarely upto date with newer releases. I like the sound of this being a bit grittier and darker in nature. That floats my boat. I'm always dubious of games that have lots of DLC, so it's good to hear that you found it enjoyable in this case. I think the combination of solid gameplay, lots of content and your superb writing has made me rethink my stance on these games. Coupled with the fact they go for peanuts, often. Throw in a couple of Ultra Rares and shit, call me Sally, I'm sold (I could potentially use this for the UR event) Thanks man! No worries on the late reply - I appreciate the fact you have. I don't make things easy for people by making those reviews a bit on the long side. That's awesome to hear that you're interested in the game now..... I'd definitely recommend people give it a go - especially now the dust has settles down a bit surrounding all the controversy over quit frankly stupid business decisions. I can vouch for the stealth gameplay that's for sure. As much of a big Metal Gear Solid fan as I am - Deus Ex just has it beat as far as the stealth mechanics go. There's so much variety to it too From everything you've said there, it definitely sounds like something I think you'd have a good time with. It does seem to be dirt cheap very often nowadays too - which is another major selling point I would have thought. Game deserves more love! The DLC is top notch man. Especially the story ones. I really wanted to go in depth with the Criminal Past one, but it's a bit spoilerific and I think that wow factor might have been lessened for anyone that played it if I'd described how well designed the prison is. 3 hours ago, KindaSabbath said: So as is becoming a habit - the wishlist/backlog continues to grow. I think the only difference between the two at this point is which ones I've told my wife I've purchased vs what I've not mentioned Just claim you need them for, erm...... Research? Or something along those lines. That's the only real bummer for these kind of checklists you end up going and buying games you'd never even have considered buying as a result of them. I've done it loads and will probably continue to do so haha! ? Like I'm sure I've said about thirty times in this thread at this point though. I'm never going to complain about having more awesome games to play. 3 hours ago, KindaSabbath said: In regards to reviews/requests - I've been checking through your first post and no doubt I'll be editing this after checking it again and apologising, but, if you haven't put one up for Yakuza 0, that would be a request from me. Oh man - you might have opened up a can of worms on that one. I've been wanting an excuse to talk about/ review Yakuza for ages, but I don't think I was quite ready, which is why I did a write up of Judgment before any of the other ones. I am now though. I'll try not to make it Final Fantasy IX length - I have so much love for that game. So it might just go that way. I'm looking forward to that one. Lucky me - looks like I get to review some pretty fantastic games, coming up. Just got bust those reviews out for the recent Tomb Raider trilogy and then I can get to these new ones. 1 hour ago, Destructor-8 said: Yes it's got off to a great start so far & I can't thank you enough for the last little push that I needed. I'm going to do the best I can with it. It really has been great hanging around here more often, especially when it's involved great games & some nice general chat as well. Happy to help if I did.. I'm sure you'll do great with it. It's been great to see you all over the forums - great to see you pop in here and hang out too - especially as I don't exactly have a trophy list brimming with racing titles, I do like them for sure, but I don't have an ounce of the skill you have in that department. Right - I'm off to finish writing a review of Beholder 2 - then I really ought to sleep. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rjkclarke Posted September 15, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) Beholder 2 Review! Platinum #328 Beholder 2 (PS4) Just do it! Get every trophy A Few Trophy Stats Platinum Earned - 15 September 2021: 12:52:58AM Time taken to Platinum - 3 days, 22 hours, 37 minutes Platinum Rarity - 19.96% Trophy Number - # 15,821 Beholder 2 takes many of the concepts established within the original game – and basically, to borrow a saying from Spinal Tap, turns them up to eleven. However, before we really get into this review, I really feel like I ought to make it clear that if you see a video review of this game on YouTube – if for example, you ever get interested in the game and look up a review and that review happens to be just shy of four minutes. Please ignore that video like the plague, it’s one of the most biased, unobjective things that I’ve ever seen. It boils down to the person saying “It’s not the same as the first game, so I don’t like it.” That’s about the only part that remains true from that video review – that it isn’t the same as the first game. To be honest, that’s perfectly fine, Beholder 2 is essentially a natural evolution of what the first title was – so in that regard it’s a very strong progression. I don’t think I’m going to dedicate quite so much time to trying to actually explain what the Beholder games are – quite honestly, it’s very difficult to define them, but that’s a good thing. That’s part of where their inherent charm comes from, that you get invested in what’s going on very quickly, yet I spent much of the time in both games thinking what am I actually playing? You end up ultimately just being very grateful to be along for the ride, as the very cleverly written and often times very surreal narrative unfolds. Beholder 2 makes a huge technical leap from its predecessor, which essentially changes the nature of the gameplay entirely. Instead of movement being essentially boiled down to, up, down, left and right along a primarily 2.5D space - you now inhabit an almost fully 3D environment – or at the very least the illusion of one. You are essentially walking on an invisible line that you can’t really deviate from unless the game allows you to. That’s fine though; the nature of the game pretty much means you won’t have to do much else apart from that anyway. What’s fundamentally different compared to the first game? Time is more of a currency in this game than a gameplay feature - everything you do costs time. Instead of there being a constant threat of a timer. This does take a little bit of the intensity away that the first game had. For the most part though it’s the removal of many of the features the original game had, instead of watching people through cameras and sneaking into apartments. This time around you infiltrate the evil and oppressive ministry itself. As a result of this, the gameplay takes a few different twists and turns. Whilst you were doing a job in the original Beholder, this game takes the job aspect to a much grander scale. A basic description of the game would be to say you play as Evan Redgrave, you start on floor one and have to work your way to the very top of the ministry, doing various jobs along the way in pursuit of solving a family mystery. It’s actually one of the features that would probably – on the surface at least, be one of the easiest ones to criticize. Yet I believe it’s one of the games strengths. It’s very rare in video games for jobs to actually feel like jobs – they have to be a little more engaging just to keep the player invested. In Beholder 2, your jobs absolutely feel like jobs, particularly the ones that can be so monotonous you basically go into auto-pilot, much like they can in real life. The thing that works in their favour though, is that I found their monotonous nature made me want to explore all the avenues that weren’t doing the assigned work, much more, and probably appreciated it a little more as a result. A part of me thinks they were deliberately designed with that in mind. The way the jobs work - play really well into the oppressive and controlling atmosphere that this video game world inhabits. It can’t be ignored that they are probably a little bit over simplistic. Each job you are assigned probably could have slightly more depth to them, if I’m being completely honest. After a while I found I was getting to the point where I would just push through each one as fast as possible. Particularly the last one where you are assigning traits to a clone – it’s an incredibly novel and interesting idea, but for a trophy you’re required to do it one hundred times, so it does wear a bit thin by that point. The developers used their limited resources to the maximum here though – and this is particularly relevant when talking about gameplay. In much the same way that the original NieR included a section that basically equated to a text adventure. That same gameplay can be found here. It’s a really interesting way of injecting yet another unique element into its gameplay. I was pleasantly surprised by how well it works too; you end up revisiting a familiar area and meeting a few characters from the original game as a result of this side of the game too. The very unique visual style returns in Beholder 2 – with perhaps a little less flavour than before. Whilst playing both games I couldn’t help but find certain characters incredibly unsettling, I think it was something about having eyes, but no mouth, yet still speaking. Unfortunately the character designs in Beholder 2 are a little less memorable this time around. The slight lack of distinct character designs is only a small criticism though, and I believe comes as a result of the larger scope of the game – and was essentially a necessary sacrifice in the pursuit of telling a much grander tale. What was ever so slightly lacking in the character designs though, was absolutely made up for in the animation – I’ll not spoil anything as some of them are worth seeing for yourself, but when you see the way some of the characters meet their ultimate fates are incredibly inventive. I’m underselling it a little bit, because I think it’s something people should absolutely experience for themselves – there is an inherent darkness to Beholder 2 (aside from the obvious monochromatic palette), that only really shows itself in a few places, but some of it is incredibly shocking – some of it is also masked by some of the funniest humour I’ve ever encountered in a video game. Anyone who doesn’t laugh at least once during Ferguson's party just doesn’t have a sense of humour. Beholder 2, much like its predecessor doesn’t contain any noteworthy voiced dialogue outside of the narrator. That’s not a problem as a it does a fantastic job of telling its story without it. All of the characters talk in a non- descript way like Bill and Ben (the flower pot men), or some of the voices found in Banjo Kazooie. Much like the original Beholder the soundtrack is fairly limited, yet still perfectly serviceable – it’s never going to be an element of the game that blows you away, but nor does it really need to be. What there is - is very good – it’s just a bit limited. It has immaculate sound design though; some of the crisp sound effects and ambient noise, particularly in the shredder floor of the ministry add an inordinate amount of atmosphere, which would very much be missing without its inclusion. If you end up attempting the platinum in Beholder 2. I’d go in with a guide, much like I suggested with the first Beholder. There are plenty out there that don’t contain spoilers, so you’d be perfectly fine on that front. Beholder 2’s trophies really go a long way in exposing how much care and attention went into actually crafting the story. It’s so impressive how well everything melds together when you look back and think about it. In the pursuit of the platinum trophy you’ll see almost every possible outcome of Evan Redgraves’ story. It’s always something I personally appreciate in a game. It’s also possible to achieve the platinum in one playthrough in this title too, with a little bit of save manipulation. The trophies in this game – do see you do some incredibly grubby, and horribly manipulative things too. If it had some of the more photo-realistic graphics of a game like This War of Mine some of what you do would be truly horrific. The Beholder series is criminally underplayed and underrated and I’d implore anyone that is interested in slightly esoteric and off kilter – or even experimental video games to give both of them a shot, they are absolutely worth your time. In a way this game almost has a little bit of everything. It’s a video game experience like almost no other. Not every single element of them is perfect, but the unique nature of them, will stay with you for a long while after you’ve played them – they did for me at least. I hope at some point in the future we can see a Beholder 3, just to see what direction or genre that game would fall into. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A short-ish one for once! That game was a blast. I really enjoyed both of those - Big thanks to @YaManSmevz and @realm722 - who provided some amazing reviews for these games that really piqued my interest and I'm not sure I would have ever bought the games otherwise. I used to look at them in sales very often and just think, not this time. Glad I did though, because those were such unique experiences. Also on a weird little side note the three of us are all on the top 50 fastest achievers for Beholder 2 now. Which is kind of interesting. Edited February 2, 2022 by rjkclarke 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realm722 Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 2 hours ago, rjkclarke said: A short-ish one for once! That game was a blast. I really enjoyed both of those - Big thanks to @YaManSmevz and @realm722 - who provided some amazing reviews for these games that really piqued my interest and I'm not sure I would have ever bought the games otherwise. I used to look at them in sales very often and just think, not this time. Glad I did though, because those were such unique experiences. Also on a weird little side note the three of us are all on the top 50 fastest achievers for Beholder 2 now. Which is kind of interesting. Hey, there is a unique detail! Hah though given the fact I'm 50th I imagine the next time someone plats the game I'll be bumped out lol. But thank you for your review! I think a lot of people jumping from the 2nd game to the 1st will be jarred by how vastly different the gameplay is. I know I sure was. I think it was the correct call too. If someone wanted to critique these games, I think a fair criticism would be exactly what you pointed out. There isn't enough depth to the gameplay loops in either one that's very satisfying. I know I felt this way, especially with the 1st game. In my review of the original I wrote: Quote There is some lack of mechanical depth. I mean - the menu to buy cameras has that, and furniture/electrical repairs that are barely used outside of literally 2 parts in the story for 5 minutes and then never touched again. I was waiting for the game to get "deeper" in terms of your spying techniques but it never went that far. Instead, it mostly consisted of balancing and puppeteering the lives of those living under your care. I think there was adequate room to expand upon these elements if the developers wanted to. Instead, they opted for a much grander, more versatile 2nd game with the different jobs as you mentioned. None of them are that good. They're fine. They do the job. But you and I sure as heck wouldn't list it as one of the things we'd mention when recommending the Beholder series to anybody. The atmosphere, general game aura, and narrative are what we'd sell it on. So yes, thank you so much for the review and I must ask, which did you ultimately prefer? 1 or 2? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KindaSabbath Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 13 hours ago, YaManSmevz said: Get out of my head, Sabbath!! I operate the exact same way on both fronts?? ??? Good to know I'm not alone! 13 hours ago, rjkclarke said: Thanks man! No worries on the late reply - I appreciate the fact you have. I don't make things easy for people by making those reviews a bit on the long side. Hey man, the reviews are as long as what you have to say about a game. I'm all ears, regardless. 13 hours ago, rjkclarke said: From everything you've said there, it definitely sounds like something I think you'd have a good time with. It does seem to be dirt cheap very often nowadays too - which is another major selling point I would have thought. Game deserves more love! The DLC is top notch man. Especially the story ones. I really wanted to go in depth with the Criminal Past one, but it's a bit spoilerific and I think that wow factor might have been lessened for anyone that played it if I'd described how well designed the prison is. Yeah I'll definitely keep an eye out for this one the next time it's discounted. Appreciate you not spoiling the DLC - In all honesty though, I'm personally rarely worried about spoilers, there are exceptions, ofcourse. But reading about something that happens in a game vs experiencing it - with all the build up and the smaller details that lead to *insert outcome here* - is sometimes world's apart. Don't get me wrong, I'll always avoid a story being spoiled for me but if it happens, it wouldn't ruin anything for me. I'm making a point of this in particular because of Yakuza 0. Don't feel the need to restrict yourself too much on that one. Go all in! 13 hours ago, rjkclarke said: Oh man - you might have opened up a can of worms on that one. I've been wanting an excuse to talk about/ review Yakuza for ages, but I don't think I was quite ready, which is why I did a write up of Judgment before any of the other ones. I am now though. I'll try not to make it Final Fantasy IX length - I have so much love for that game. So it might just go that way. I'm looking forward to that one. Lucky me - looks like I get to review some pretty fantastic games, coming up Sounds like you're as excited to write it as I am to read it. Hell fucking yeah! Make it whatever length you need to get your viewpoint across. Write until you've said everything you want to say bro. Lucky me - looks like I get to play some pretty exciting games, coming up ? I haven't read your Beholder 2 review yet. For the sake of my wallet ? (I will read it later, though) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kopite Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 On 9/14/2021 at 1:08 AM, rjkclarke said: That's good to hear about FFVIIR - they do seem to have struck a more healthy balance from what you've said, that don't seem to put off new and old fans. So they ought to be commended for that. Nice to see you're making some more progress with it too. In my mind FFVII couldn't ever be top anyway - because, well - it has Cait Sith in it - and any game that has Cait Sith in it is a worse product just by their inclusion - it does have Red XIII though to balance it out - or Nanny's Key as me and one of my friends call him Yes they have done and should be commended for it. I think they knew there would be too much of an uproar if the battle system was like FFXV's. Sadly with the main games they don't have that history like with FFVII Remake, therefore they can make the battle system more and more action like (just my opinion, I know there are others who want FF to go in that direction) Yeah been able to get going with it again in the last week or so, which is refreshing. Got to take the opportunities when I get them. Cait Sith was.......an odd character. It'll be interesting to see what they are like the Remake when I get that far. Looking forward to the DLC afterwards with Yuffie, though I'd need a PS5 lol On 9/14/2021 at 1:08 AM, rjkclarke said: I believe that stiffness was just so the lip syncing was a little less jarring, so I can give that a bit of a free pass - which is why Yuna seems to........ Talk......... A little bit..... Like she.....Was......... Trained by William Shatner.......... To act. It's pretty good for a first attempt that's for sure - part of me would have loved to have heard what the Scottish Dwarves that live in Conde Petie in FFIX would have sounded like. I guess we'll find out if we ever watch that animated series that was announced recently for FFIX. I want to voice Quina haha Yuna being trained by Shatner, now there's a random thought lol O yes that animated series. That was quite a surprise I have to say. Pretty excited for it definitely. I'm sure there is supposed to be a live action FFXIV series. On 9/14/2021 at 1:08 AM, rjkclarke said: He sure did - I'm sure I'm not the only one he left a lasting impression on either, he was an incredibly wise and funny man, that I'd love to talk about a bit, especially as finding about his death had a pretty profound effect on me whilst I was playing Tales of Zestiria. So it might not be all that relevant - but I'm going to do it anyway. You got to do what feels right. On 9/14/2021 at 1:08 AM, rjkclarke said: I think I have that avatar myself - might be prudent to give Sly Cooper's one a rest for a little bit. This is true - Vivi's story deserves to pretty much remain untouched for any that haven't played the game and might want to at some point. For me it was a huge part of what made the game so memorable. Think it'd be a great time to change it up! Absolutely, Vivi's story is a massive part of the whole game and it deserves to be experienced properly. On 9/14/2021 at 1:08 AM, rjkclarke said: That'd probably be the only Trials game I'd manage to complete, unfortunately I want that FFIX stage show now - It's a universal enough story I think, that it could work too. But I doubt anywhere would realistically have the budget to do it, which is a shame - it'd be much more likely to happen in Japan I think. Yakuza going turn based is exactly what I didn't want - I thought it would slow it down too much, but I'm glad that it's transition has pretty much been a resounding success for the most part. So I'm glad as usual my own trepidation seems to have been for nothing. O yeah definitely. It would only happen in Japan but hey someone would put it on Youtube lol That's good about Yakuza! It is annoying when your own trepidation about change ends up potentially getting in the way of enjoying a game. On 9/14/2021 at 1:08 AM, rjkclarke said: You'll get no argument from me about him being a genius. Yeah - missed opportunity and wasted potential are probably the two phrases I'd probably throw around the most myself when it comes to Lost Odyssey. I'm going to check out that Resonant Arc video this week if I get a chance, that seems like a really interesting watch. Honestly it's well worth a watch. ? If you really enjoy it, then he does get video reviews and exploration of other games including the Final Fantasy main series. On 9/14/2021 at 1:08 AM, rjkclarke said: It's actually a pretty decent trophy list outside of Bloodlust and the Jump Rope one. Like you said, they seem to be designed with encouraging you to see practically everything that they put into their game. It really makes you appreciate how much content they managed to pack into a game like this - especially when you consider how light on side content something like FFVIII was - maybe it wasn't, it just seems like it is, compared to how much there is to do in this one. Thanks again for the feedback. I joined a backlog event recently - and I put down Resident Evil 4 as one of the next games I'm going to play in the next few months, so we'll be able to have a nice little further discussion about that one I reckon. FFVIII didn't have a ton of side content compared to the Gold Saucer in VII or the multitude of mini games in IX, but then it did have Triple Triad, so that was pretty much enough really lol such a great minigame lol Oooo Resident Evil 4, nice. Yes we will have to discuss that when you get around to it. Not got the same kind of emotional depth as FFIX lol and then there's Ashley.......... On 9/14/2021 at 1:08 AM, rjkclarke said: Haha - I think many of us have had experiences like that in Uncharted. I think for that very reason alone - playing Naughty Dog titles at their hardest moments - is probably an experience best had whilst your TV is muted..... Or you could just make it fun, like every time you die in Crash Bandicoot and Crash goes WWAAAAAAAAAAA and then you go "what is it good for." Might stop you from using your controller as a tennis ball. Haha! Love that reference lol you have to add any kind of humour in those situations, lest you go maaaaaaaad lol Thankfully I'm pretty good at not throwing or at least braking controllers, so that's something lol On 9/14/2021 at 1:08 AM, rjkclarke said: That's definitely a great point - it works in some games more than others. I'm sure I'm probably in the minority, but I never liked the fact that you essentially end up playing as Sly less and less as the series progressed. I think he's far and away the most fun character to play as - and particularly in the fourth title, he just gets sidelined a bit. Shame really. Yeah I have to say that as characters, I like Bentley and Murray. Sly is more fun to play as though, the sections are and should be the main basis of the games. 23 hours ago, YaManSmevz said: 100%. They're all such high quality, and each one was such a big deal right from the time of release. It's been two decades and my favorite of the trio still depends on what day you ask me Haha! Love that answer! Well then, let's find out what your answer is today - which of those 3 is your favourite as of this moment? 23 hours ago, YaManSmevz said: Guilty here as well. For whatever reason, the Chrono Trigger soundtrack has been bouncin around in my head for a while, and the immensely talented Yasunori Mitsuda did a stupendous job, but that handful of Uematsu tracks still gave him a run for his money. I remember just sitting there letting Sealed Door play on loop, utterly mesmerized. Just crazy to think he's been that good since even then! Chrono Trigger's soundtrack is pretty immense in it's own unique way. Great songs on there. Definitely up there with some of Uematsu's music for me. Will always bop away to Frog's Theme or just sit there and soak up the melody of Peaceful Days just as examples. Seems like there could be a debate or just discussion regarding great video game soundtracks here. Could throw out loads. Most of them I find are JRPG one's though for me personally. 23 hours ago, YaManSmevz said: I've only finished the first Uncharted, and I can already relate with you both! Elena lamely saying "Oh no!" during that god awful jeep sequence was horrible. Or one of several fire fights, you get killed and there's this guy, with this infuriating cockiness, saying "not so tough now!" Like fuck off, there's fifty of you dickheads!! Damn, gettin worked up just thinkin about it Just wait until you've played the rest haha plenty more of that to look forward to! 17 hours ago, Destructor-8 said: Those games from that period have the absolute best soundtracks I've ever heard in a game. There's even been Japanese bands since then that have done brilliant renditions of those tracks. If I had to pick the best of all time, then it would be these games. Can't agree more. They are simply stunning soundtracks from pretty much start to end. I love pieces of music from every FF soundtrack I've ever listened to (which is a lot of them lol) but sadly as time goes on, there are less and less standout tracks for me in the newer FF's. Some of that is the way the games are structured nowadays, but certainl Uematsu leaving SquareSoft/Enix was massive. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaManSmevz Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 3 hours ago, The_Kopite said: Looking forward to the DLC afterwards with Yuffie, though I'd need a PS5 lol Same boat. My friend and I actually bought Remake through gritted teeth because we knew we wouldn't see it through to the end without somehow buying a PS5! 3 hours ago, The_Kopite said: Oooo Resident Evil 4, nice. Yes we will have to discuss that when you get around to it. Not got the same kind of emotional depth as FFIX lol and then there's Ashley.......... HALP ME LEEAWWNN!!! Ugh.. another game I'm somehow both excited to re-visit and not at all? 4 hours ago, The_Kopite said: Thankfully I'm pretty good at not throwing or at least braking controllers, so that's something lol Same, however I have been guilty of yelling obscenities at the television. Then the next day I'm hoarse and feel like a total dipshit? 3 hours ago, The_Kopite said: Haha! Love that answer! Well then, let's find out what your answer is today - which of those 3 is your favourite as of this moment? Actually... Eight. Did a lot of daring shit and it took a while before it got the credit for that. I feel like most of the hate that game got at the time was like "A love story??? Eewww!!" Given that I'm starting IX again, it could be that in a week! Incidentally, have you read the Squall-is-dead stuff?? Fucking fascinating! 4 hours ago, The_Kopite said: Chrono Trigger's soundtrack is pretty immense in it's own unique way. Great songs on there. Definitely up there with some of Uematsu's music for me. Will always bop away to Frog's Theme or just sit there and soak up the melody of Peaceful Days just as examples. Seems like there could be a debate or just discussion regarding great video game soundtracks here. Could throw out loads. Most of them I find are JRPG one's though for me personally. Corridors of Time always puts a smile on my face too. Now THAT'S a savage concept... best video game soundtrack? I have to agree that it would likely be a JRPG though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjkclarke Posted September 16, 2021 Author Share Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) 19 hours ago, realm722 said: Hey, there is a unique detail! Hah though given the fact I'm 50th I imagine the next time someone plats the game I'll be bumped out lol. But thank you for your review! I think a lot of people jumping from the 2nd game to the 1st will be jarred by how vastly different the gameplay is. I know I sure was. I think it was the correct call too. If someone wanted to critique these games, I think a fair criticism would be exactly what you pointed out. There isn't enough depth to the gameplay loops in either one that's very satisfying. I know I felt this way, especially with the 1st game. In my review of the original I wrote: You might stay 50th for a while yet - plenty of people might have to take a while after some of those workplace task trophies get a bit too much for them! 19 hours ago, realm722 said: Quote There is some lack of mechanical depth. I mean - the menu to buy cameras has that, and furniture/electrical repairs that are barely used outside of literally 2 parts in the story for 5 minutes and then never touched again. I was waiting for the game to get "deeper" in terms of your spying techniques but it never went that far. Instead, it mostly consisted of balancing and puppeteering the lives of those living under your care. I think you said it a little better than I did that's for sure - I think I forgot to even mention that when talking about Beholder 1 - I did expect the game to at least have the best versions of the camera's or something, or that you could only see certain things if you had the best equipment. ...... As a result you end up having lots of in game money and really not anything much to do with said money. 19 hours ago, realm722 said: I think there was adequate room to expand upon these elements if the developers wanted to. Instead, they opted for a much grander, more versatile 2nd game with the different jobs as you mentioned. None of them are that good. They're fine. They do the job. But you and I sure as heck wouldn't list it as one of the things we'd mention when recommending the Beholder series to anybody. The atmosphere, general game aura, and narrative are what we'd sell it on. So yes, thank you so much for the review and I must ask, which did you ultimately prefer? 1 or 2? I'd definitely agree with that - I sure as hell wouldn't say " hey go play this game, you remember that bit in What Remains of Edith Finch where the guy goes a bit banana's whilst cannng fish? Cool you do, well the job system in Beholder is that but without the interesting hallucination section to go alongside it." Like you said - I think the two of us would most definitely recommend it based on all of the above you mentioned. The job component seems to be the thing that works the least in both titles. I'm glad you and Smevz got me interested in playing them both though - it was definitely a worthwhile experience. Asking which one I liked better is really tough - I think if the first game didn't contain the Blissful Sleep DLC, then I think I'd easily say the second - but that Blissful Sleep story for the first one was bloody excellent, the pacing is great, it's structured incredibly well and it's very funny too. So I think I might just give the first game the edge, it's small margins though. I very much like them both, but I was genuinely a little bored by some of the jobs in Beholder 2, whereas that didn't bore me in the first game, I just wanted more variety from it. How about you? Which one did you actually prefer, you probably did say in the review, but it's been a while since I've read it so I couldn't remember exactly if you did. 9 hours ago, KindaSabbath said: Yeah I'll definitely keep an eye out for this one the next time it's discounted. Appreciate you not spoiling the DLC - In all honesty though, I'm personally rarely worried about spoilers, there are exceptions, ofcourse. But reading about something that happens in a game vs experiencing it - with all the build up and the smaller details that lead to *insert outcome here* - is sometimes world's apart. Don't get me wrong, I'll always avoid a story being spoiled for me but if it happens, it wouldn't ruin anything for me. I'm making a point of this in particular because of Yakuza 0. Don't feel the need to restrict yourself too much on that one. Go all in! That's very true actually, sometimes knowing spoilers doesn't effect you at all, because of exactly what you said - it's the twist and turns that take you to that ultimate point that end up being interesting. I'll mention them if I feel like I need to - in fact if I do, I'll just hide them under a spoiler bubble. I managed to get through writing about Final Fantasy IX without giving away any major spoilers so I'll take a crack again. I'm very mindful of the fact that Smevz is playing Yakuza 0 at the moment, so I'd be gutted if I gave anything about that games awesome story away for him, before he's had the chance to see it for himself. I'll go all in that's for sure. Don't have to worry about that part. 9 hours ago, KindaSabbath said: Sounds like you're as excited to write it as I am to read it. Hell fucking yeah! Make it whatever length you need to get your viewpoint across. Write until you've said everything you want to say bro. Lucky me - looks like I get to play some pretty exciting games, coming up I haven't read your Beholder 2 review yet. For the sake of my wallet (I will read it later, though) Yep - I'm super excited to write about Yakuza 0 and Metal Gear Solid V as well, so those should be some fairly interesting avenues to delve into. Looking at what you put in your thread earlier about Final Fantasy X and Yakuza 0 I'd say you've got some more very high quality games coming your way very soon. I'm not super happy about that Beholder 2 review - I worried I was being a little overly critical about a game I still really enjoyed despite having some pretty glaring issues. 6 hours ago, The_Kopite said: Sadly with the main games they don't have that history like with FFVII Remake, therefore they can make the battle system more and more action like (just my opinion, I know there are others who want FF to go in that direction) I guess that's just something us Dinosaurs are going to have to accept I suppose. Frenetic action packed gameplay is certainly not why I like Final Fantasy, but XV does seem to have a hell of a lot of fans. I'm sure remember there being a slogan around FFXV's release along the lines of, for fans and new players alike - I'm sure there's plenty of people who do fall into both of those categories. 6 hours ago, The_Kopite said: Cait Sith was.......a terrible character! ^^ Fixed that for you ...... Nah in all seriousness I'm interested to see what they do with Cait Sith in the remake - I doubt I could dislike them more than I already do, unless they make them voiced by Gilbert Gottfried or something. 6 hours ago, The_Kopite said: O yes that animated series. That was quite a surprise I have to say. Pretty excited for it definitely. I'm sure there is supposed to be a live action FFXIV series. A live action FFXIV series huh? Interesting, that might be nice to watch considering I'll almost certainly never actually play that game. I'm pretty interested in the animated one they are doing on IX I just really hope they do it justice. There's a whole lot to cover, and even more stuff to potentially gloss over and miss the point of entirely - so it could go horribly wrong too, but the optimistic part of me will definitely hope that it doesn't. 6 hours ago, The_Kopite said: That's good about Yakuza! It is annoying when your own trepidation about change ends up potentially getting in the way of enjoying a game. It is - I'll happily admit that's happened on multiple occasions too, I'm trying to get out of that habit - and just completely go in with my mind and my eyes open. Plenty of awesome gaming experiences waiting for us all, even if it's in genres we'd never usually touch. 6 hours ago, The_Kopite said: FFVIII didn't have a ton of side content compared to the Gold Saucer in VII or the multitude of mini games in IX, but then it did have Triple Triad, so that was pretty much enough really lol such a great minigame lol This is very true! Triple Triad is all the mini games you need - I'd rather that than the Obel lake side quest - some of it's good but precisely wandering around that dry landscape is really annoying, it's so finicky to find the one spot on the map that it wants you to find. 6 hours ago, The_Kopite said: Oooo Resident Evil 4, nice. Yes we will have to discuss that when you get around to it. Not got the same kind of emotional depth as FFIX lol and then there's Ashley.......... Definitely not the same emotional depth as FFIX that's for sure but still a pretty great game. I think the fact you can throw Ashley into dustbins in that game says all you need to say about her character.She should get in the bin and stay there. 6 hours ago, The_Kopite said: Haha! Love that reference lol you have to add any kind of humour in those situations, lest you go maaaaaaaad lol Thankfully I'm pretty good at not throwing or at least braking controllers, so that's something lol Exactly - gotta keep it entertaining otherwise the rage will start to bubble up. Especially in Naughty Dog games - I'm kind of happy that it doesn't look like we're the only ones to suffer some of that trauma either. I'm not in the habit of breaking controllers myself - they're far too expensive. One of my friends did try to use his as a chew toy out of frustration, which I told you before, once you've seen that - you kind of just think, nah gaming rage isn't for me. 6 hours ago, The_Kopite said: Seems like there could be a debate or just discussion regarding great video game soundtracks here in that case - I'm going to throw a non JRPG one amongst the mix and say that the first two Harry Potter games on PS1 and PC had pretty incredible soundtracks, not very much like the films, but the ambient music in Hogwarts is so relaxing. Eternal Sonata is one of if not my favourite video game soundtrack, it's got your usual awesome JRPG flare mixed with original pieces inspired by the work of Chopin - with some of Chopins' work thrown in for good measure. Man I wish that game had trophies. I'd be all over that game in this thread. That might be another one of those I review even though it doesn't have trophies tied to it - such an underrated gem. Edited September 16, 2021 by rjkclarke 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realm722 Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 23 hours ago, rjkclarke said: Asking which one I liked better is really tough - I think if the first game didn't contain the Blissful Sleep DLC, then I think I'd easily say the second - but that Blissful Sleep story for the first one was bloody excellent, the pacing is great, it's structured incredibly well and it's very funny too. So I think I might just give the first game the edge, it's small margins though. I very much like them both, but I was genuinely a little bored by some of the jobs in Beholder 2, whereas that didn't bore me in the first game, I just wanted more variety from it. How about you? Which one did you actually prefer, you probably did say in the review, but it's been a while since I've read it so I couldn't remember exactly if you did. Yea I'd agree with you on the jobs cycle wearing a bit thin on the 2nd game. Especially with the mandatory minimum for one of the trophies. But I believe I wrote in my review that it wasn't so bad since those sorts of trophies/grinds are when the game becomes something I do while listening to a podcast so it's not all bad. ? I give the very slight edge to Beholder 2. For the simple fact, I appreciate the devs went for a far more ambitious attempt with the story and grander overall themes. I think it's the game I would be more likely to replay than the original due to the branching endings as well. But the difference for me is like I rated Beholder 2 a 7.4 and Beholder 1 a 7.2. If I may make another game series suggestion to you.... The Banner Saga. I don't know how you feel about turn-based tactical games but I depending on whether you think the gameplay is good - manageable, I think you could love it. It is, quite probably, my favorite gaming trilogy of All-Time. (Batman: Arkham series gives it a run for its money). At the very minimum, I'd say play the original(it's often on sale for $5), and if you hate it, platting that game isn't too hard for a UR. If you love it, you'd have two more games in the series to drown yourself in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjkclarke Posted September 17, 2021 Author Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, realm722 said: Yea I'd agree with you on the jobs cycle wearing a bit thin on the 2nd game. Especially with the mandatory minimum for one of the trophies. But I believe I wrote in my review that it wasn't so bad since those sorts of trophies/grinds are when the game becomes something I do while listening to a podcast so it's not all bad. I would usually do the same - but this time around I didn't bother - I kind of thought, well these won't take too long, so I won't need a podcast, I was a bit mistaken, because that one for doing 100 clones took ages. THAT was the time to pull out a podcast. 10 hours ago, realm722 said: I give the very slight edge to Beholder 2. For the simple fact, I appreciate the devs went for a far more ambitious attempt with the story and grander overall themes. I think it's the game I would be more likely to replay than the original due to the branching endings as well. But the difference for me is like I rated Beholder 2 a 7.4 and Beholder 1 a 7.2. That's exactly it isn't it, very very small margins. I definitely think Beholder 2 is the better game, and a much more fleshed out story. This is a really small gripe, that I didn't mention in my review, is that I really wished that Beholder 2 had slightly faster movement speed. I think on replays that would get a bit frustrating. At least in the first game you could just hold down and move with slightly more pace. Whereas Evan moves a bit like his shoes are magnets, keeping him stuck to the floor. I really loved that Blissful Sleep DLC though, I thought that was such a brilliant idea. That's the only thing that slightly edges the first one in terms of preference, if I played Beholder 2 again, I'd probably change my mind though. 10 hours ago, realm722 said: If I may make another game series suggestion to you.... The Banner Saga. I don't know how you feel about turn-based tactical games but I depending on whether you think the gameplay is good - manageable, I think you could love it. It is, quite probably, my favorite gaming trilogy of All-Time. (Batman: Arkham series gives it a run for its money). At the very minimum, I'd say play the original(it's often on sale for $5), and if you hate it, platting that game isn't too hard for a UR. If you love it, you'd have two more games in the series to drown yourself in. That's high praise indeed! Funnily enough, I meant to buy that very recently in one of the sales. But I forgot. I only really tend to buy games when they are on sale, so that isn't really a knock on the game or anything. I've been interested for a while though - I remember reading things from both yourself and Grotz about it, and really digging the idea of the games. I don't believe I've actually played anything even close to that genre before either, at least not any that are on my trophy list. I sure like a bit of variety too, so I'll definitely have to check them out and buy them next time they are on sale. I don't think I'd have to worry about hating it, I can usually find something to appreciate in games, whatever the genre or game was. I can probably count on two hands the games I've genuinely despised playing, most of them aren't on my trophy list. Spoilers, one of them is WWE2K Battlegrounds ?...... Edited September 17, 2021 by rjkclarke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kopite Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 On 9/15/2021 at 11:40 PM, YaManSmevz said: Same boat. My friend and I actually bought Remake through gritted teeth because we knew we wouldn't see it through to the end without somehow buying a PS5! Haha! Yeah the whole splitting it into a trilogy at least is understandable yet obviously at the same time an easy way to make a lot more cash. Massive FF fan over here though so what can I say? Got the collector edition of Remake and will most likely get the other inevitable collector editions too lol On 9/15/2021 at 11:40 PM, YaManSmevz said: HALP ME LEEAWWNN!!! Ugh.. another game I'm somehow both excited to re-visit and not at all Yeah RE4 is a weird one for me. No doubting it is a great game certainly. However I distinctly remember when I first played it back in the day, that I was not as keen on it compared to the first 3 and CV. It felt more action like and started that path for RE away from Survival Horror for a bit like Final Fantasy has gone from turn based battles to being more action like too. On 9/15/2021 at 11:40 PM, YaManSmevz said: Same, however I have been guilty of yelling obscenities at the television. Then the next day I'm hoarse and feel like a total dipshit They say that smart tv's are always listening as well. Whoever it hearing what I shout at the TV sometimes must be wondering if they could be in a better job haha On 9/15/2021 at 11:40 PM, YaManSmevz said: Actually... Eight. Did a lot of daring shit and it took a while before it got the credit for that. I feel like most of the hate that game got at the time was like "A love story??? Eewww!!" Given that I'm starting IX again, it could be that in a week! Incidentally, have you read the Squall-is-dead stuff?? Fucking fascinating! O yeah I have heard about that theory actually. Certainly an intriguing one, but I would prefer to think it's not the actual canon story though personally. You are right, with the two characters in the logo on the front of the box, it probably put some people off right there with the love story theme. Didn't put me off. Nor the junctioning system. VIII is great in it's own way. Triple Triad rocks. I always really enjoyed the GF sequences and the fact you'd spam square on and off for ages just to get a little bit extra damage out lol On 9/15/2021 at 11:40 PM, YaManSmevz said: Corridors of Time always puts a smile on my face too. Now THAT'S a savage concept... best video game soundtrack? I have to agree that it would likely be a JRPG though. Yes that is a good one. Can I throw out Guardia Forest too as another great one? Not that savage, better than what's the worst Final Fantasy song ever? I mean how would you pick that?! lol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kopite Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 On 9/16/2021 at 2:19 AM, rjkclarke said: I guess that's just something us Dinosaurs are going to have to accept I suppose. Frenetic action packed gameplay is certainly not why I like Final Fantasy, but XV does seem to have a hell of a lot of fans. I'm sure remember there being a slogan around FFXV's release along the lines of, for fans and new players alike - I'm sure there's plenty of people who do fall into both of those categories. Yes indeed. Sadly being in your 30's means you're a gaming dinosaur and wanting more turn based RPG's is a gaming crime lol Yeah there are certainly parts of FFXV I do like don't get me wrong. It's not the worst FF game. (There's a discussion to be had) but it wasn't quite for me in some big ways sadly. I will play all the DLC and read the book once I have a PS5 and get around to the book haha. Part of the problem with XV right there. ^^ Fixed that for you ...... Nah in all seriousness I'm interested to see what they do with Cait Sith in the remake - I doubt I could dislike them more than I already do, unless they make them voiced by Gilbert Gottfried or something. Funny enough I did just see them for the first time in the Remake. Very short glimpse as part of a scene so yeah it'll be interesting. I know Red XIII is in there at the end of the game so looking forward to that. Great character. On 9/16/2021 at 2:19 AM, rjkclarke said: A live action FFXIV series huh? Interesting, that might be nice to watch considering I'll almost certainly never actually play that game. I'm pretty interested in the animated one they are doing on IX I just really hope they do it justice. There's a whole lot to cover, and even more stuff to potentially gloss over and miss the point of entirely - so it could go horribly wrong too, but the optimistic part of me will definitely hope that it doesn't. Yeah I heard rumours about it anyways. Don't know the status of it. I heard that IX's animated series is going to be aimed at children though, so that would certainly change the context of the story. On 9/16/2021 at 2:19 AM, rjkclarke said: It is - I'll happily admit that's happened on multiple occasions too, I'm trying to get out of that habit - and just completely go in with my mind and my eyes open. Plenty of awesome gaming experiences waiting for us all, even if it's in genres we'd never usually touch. Absolutely! On 9/16/2021 at 2:19 AM, rjkclarke said: This is very true! Triple Triad is all the mini games you need - I'd rather that than the Obel lake side quest - some of it's good but precisely wandering around that dry landscape is really annoying, it's so finicky to find the one spot on the map that it wants you to find. Haha o yeah, that was such fun..... On 9/16/2021 at 2:19 AM, rjkclarke said: Definitely not the same emotional depth as FFIX that's for sure but still a pretty great game. I think the fact you can throw Ashley into dustbins in that game says all you need to say about her character.She should get in the bin and stay there. That is an interesting point that you will have to explore further as you dissect her character. BTW, by chance have you watched RE: Infinite Darkness? On 9/16/2021 at 2:19 AM, rjkclarke said: Exactly - gotta keep it entertaining otherwise the rage will start to bubble up. Especially in Naughty Dog games - I'm kind of happy that it doesn't look like we're the only ones to suffer some of that trauma either. I'm not in the habit of breaking controllers myself - they're far too expensive. One of my friends did try to use his as a chew toy out of frustration, which I told you before, once you've seen that - you kind of just think, nah gaming rage isn't for me. Surely everyone must have suffered some trauma from Naughty Dog games, especially Uncharted and Last of US going for platinums?! I can't believe how well the prices of the PS3 and even PS4 controllers still hold up. I can understand more the price of the PS5 controller, but still...... On 9/16/2021 at 2:19 AM, rjkclarke said: in that case - I'm going to throw a non JRPG one amongst the mix and say that the first two Harry Potter games on PS1 and PC had pretty incredible soundtracks, not very much like the films, but the ambient music in Hogwarts is so relaxing. Eternal Sonata is one of if not my favourite video game soundtrack, it's got your usual awesome JRPG flare mixed with original pieces inspired by the work of Chopin - with some of Chopins' work thrown in for good measure. Man I wish that game had trophies. I'd be all over that game in this thread. That might be another one of those I review even though it doesn't have trophies tied to it - such an underrated gem. The only HP game I've played is the Lego one so I wouldn't know but the music in the films was pretty decent from what I can remember. (Not the biggest HP fan) Eternal Sonata rings a bell, is that another XB360 game that I'd have missed like Lost Odyssey? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaManSmevz Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 45 minutes ago, The_Kopite said: Not that savage, better than what's the worst Final Fantasy song ever? I mean how would you pick that?! lol ....yeah I got nothin? 45 minutes ago, The_Kopite said: Yeah RE4 is a weird one for me. No doubting it is a great game certainly. However I distinctly remember when I first played it back in the day, that I was not as keen on it compared to the first 3 and CV. It felt more action like and started that path for RE away from Survival Horror for a bit like Final Fantasy has gone from turn based battles to being more action like too. I had a very similar experience. I remember thinkin "It's a good game, but it's not Resident Evil, maaan." Eventually I came around to recognize it as a great game, although to be fair the existence of 5 and 6 might have rushed that realization along? 45 minutes ago, The_Kopite said: They say that smart tv's are always listening as well. Whoever it hearing what I shout at the TV sometimes must be wondering if they could be in a better job haha Sheesh, there's another thing to consider! I always wonder if the neighbors can hear me and if so, what they must think. If I knew my neighbor was married and heard "oh fuck you!" or "you piece of shit!" every so often, I'd certainly start having some questions... I imagine the police showing up: "Hello sir, we have a report of domestic disturbance." "Huh? Oh no, my wife's not even home! It's just this stupid Rocket League trophy, it keeps glitching and it won't pop, it's really pissing me off." "Oh... damn, that's messed up. Have a good day, sir." If I start getting anger management class notifications on my phone, I'll know it's cuz of my TV! I'm a pretty mild mannered dude, but when my wife is out and a game is getting to me... oh man. What that poor TV has to hear! 52 minutes ago, The_Kopite said: O yeah I have heard about that theory actually. Certainly an intriguing one, but I would prefer to think it's not the actual canon story though personally. You are right, with the two characters in the logo on the front of the box, it probably put some people off right there with the love story theme. Didn't put me off. Nor the junctioning system. VIII is great in it's own way. Triple Triad rocks. I always really enjoyed the GF sequences and the fact you'd spam square on and off for ages just to get a little bit extra damage out lol I did get a kick out of the boosting. I remember Eden felt like ten minutes every time, and even if you messed up, getting to 250 was rarely a problem! Triple Triad - can I say this? - is the best FF mini game ever, hands down. So good that it inspired a staggeringly inferior copycat in the following game! It's been said by the writers that Squall is very much not dead, but that theory still blew me away, and explained so much of the story for me. I felt the love story was a tad rushed and felt rather unlikely, but it really reached for the feels, and I'd be lying if I said it wasn't successful. The issue I had with the junctioning system is that it essentially nullified magic and made characters a bit too dependent on GFs, but once you know how to work it, it's pretty fun. 1 hour ago, The_Kopite said: Yes that is a good one. Can I throw out Guardia Forest too as another great one? You most definitely can, and you're absolutely right! One of my favorite moments was Dalton bein like "what the fuck? Stop the music!" and Shot of Crisis starts playin and he's like "Yeah, that's what I'm talkin about!" I see your Guardia Forest and raise you with Black Omen! We could do this all day? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrooba Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 Sorry I haven't responded sooner here! I've been busy with an assignment, but I can finally get to checking out your latest review! ? On 15/09/2021 at 1:02 PM, rjkclarke said: Beholder 2 makes a huge technical leap from its predecessor, which essentially changes the nature of the gameplay entirely. Instead of movement being essentially boiled down to, up, down, left and right along a primarily 2.5D space - you now inhabit an almost fully 3D environment – or at the very least the illusion of one. You are essentially walking on an invisible line that you can’t really deviate from unless the game allows you to. That’s fine though; the nature of the game pretty much means you won’t have to do much else apart from that anyway. What’s fundamentally different compared to the first game? Time is more of a currency in this game than a gameplay feature - everything you do costs time. Instead of there being a constant threat of a timer. This does take a little bit of the intensity away that the first game had. For the most part though it’s the removal of many of the features the original game had, instead of watching people through cameras and sneaking into apartments. This time around you infiltrate the evil and oppressive ministry itself. Sequels are always great for how they innovate on previous entries. The transition from 2.5D to 3D is especially a particular change that has been utilized in really awesome manners like ArcSys fighting games which portray the 3D models as 2D sprites. But when you started mentioning the aspect of time, that reminded me a ton of Majora's Mask! Man, that game was intrinsically tied to the idea of time, and your wording of it being a constant threat, now turned into a currency and not a gameplay feature, really shows how what seemed like a fully realized idea back on the N64 can still see innovation in new games even in this era and possibly beyond. And even on a more diegetic level, you're now infiltrating directly as opposed to the overseeing of the first game. That stuff is pretty cool to read about! I love seeing how games push the envelope and see what's possible. Nice review man! Look forward to the next! ? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kopite Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 3 hours ago, YaManSmevz said: ....yeah I got nothin lol 3 hours ago, YaManSmevz said: I had a very similar experience. I remember thinkin "It's a good game, but it's not Resident Evil, maaan." Eventually I came around to recognize it as a great game, although to be fair the existence of 5 and 6 might have rushed that realization along Yes exactly! That's how I felt as well. Obviously 5 was very far from what RE should be, and 6 was very muddled. 7 I'm very slowly playing through at the mo lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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