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Update a Trophy List


BlindMango

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35 minutes ago, Leenewbe said:

Yes, with the new PS5/4 release it can be added. Must have gone by without notice with all the flashy games that were released recently.

 

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also, incorrect title? every where i've seen it, it's just called bless unlimited.

https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/11553-the-bless-unleashed

Yes, this seems to be true, it may have been a mistake, but it is a simple fix. PSN store also officially has it listed as 'Bless Unlimited' so there are no qualms in changing it.

 

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This particular POWGI game would have been updated within the next couple days once the next segment of the database had been updated, but I took care of it now. I wish POWGI had something more interesting to use for banner material though in their games...

 

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shouldn't the zombie army games be part of the sniper elite series  as they are spin offs?

As far as I know, it was originally a spinoff that spawned its own series and so they are treated as separate series

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7 hours ago, Dreggit said:

 

No, collections are placed after or before the equivalent of whichever games are contained in the collection in lue of respecting release dates of the games in the collection.

 

https://psnprofiles.com/series/372-arkedo-series collection is placed after the three games as it contains all three items

https://psnprofiles.com/series/740-amnesia-frictional-games collection is placed before the latest entry as it includes the first two games

https://psnprofiles.com/series/380-awesome-pea collection is placed after the first two games

https://psnprofiles.com/series/350-back-to-the-future episode collection is placed after the first five episodes

https://psnprofiles.com/series/128-danganronpa 1 + 2 collection is placed after the first two games

https://psnprofiles.com/series/62-doom Doom Classic Complete is after the first two games but before Doom 64

https://psnprofiles.com/series/433-dragons-lair collection is placed after the first two games

https://psnprofiles.com/series/461-flowers collection is placed after the four games in the collection

https://psnprofiles.com/series/431-kunio-kun-retro-brawler-bundle collection is placed after the individual games

https://psnprofiles.com/series/510-marvel-pinball collection is placed after the original (despite subsequent volumes never releasing)

https://psnprofiles.com/series/136-mega-man Megaman Legacy Collection V1 comes before Megaman 10. Megaman Legacy Collection V2 then comes after 10.

https://psnprofiles.com/series/701-my-romantic-comedy Collection is placed after the first two games

https://psnprofiles.com/series/181-overcooked collection comes after the first two entries

https://psnprofiles.com/series/584-season-match a decidedly odd series in of itself. The collections come after the games that are in them, with the final collection coming last. An odd series in that noone has ever earned a trophy in any game beyond the first despite there being owners for the games

https://psnprofiles.com/series/765-serious-sam collection comes after 3 because it contains 3, but also two other games

https://psnprofiles.com/series/599-spelunker collection comes after HD

https://psnprofiles.com/series/642-tony-hawk collection comes after HD and has an additional game contained within it

 

To summarize, collections should always be in their own stage after the games in which the collection contains within them while also maintaining the community chosen constraint of respecting the original release date of those games. Yes, there are probably inconsistencies that exist within the series master list (which also needs to be updated) but we also have not finished going through the entire list of series to standardize the rules laid out. My primary concern is to finish the database overhaul which is a much larger issue that is no small task.

 

You can read more on the rules in which we make series here.

Thanks for the reply! I did spot the Awesome Pea example and one other when having a look through the list of series.

 

I can't see a rule though within your last link that sets out why collections are treated as separate stages rather than alternative ways to 100% the stage(s) of the games they contain.

 

Personally I don't think people should need to double dip - buying a collection of games they've already bought and completed individually, or vice versa - in order to be considered to have completed the series, but I suppose it could make the database/model a little complicated if collections count towards multiple stages.

 

(Definitely not a priority over whatever database overhaul work you're doing in any case, and thanks for your work on the feature so far!)

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7 minutes ago, yndajas said:

Personally I don't think people should need to double dip - buying a collection of games they've already bought and completed individually, or vice versa - in order to be considered to have completed the series, but I suppose it could make the database/model a little complicated if collections count towards multiple stages.

 

If it makes more sense to you, as the site is currently set up, doing this causes several issues:

  • To set it up in such a way in that a collection would count in a single stage, it would require all related games of a collection to also share that stage, which would then in many examples, violate other rules in which a series is defined since we require there to be a minimum of two stages with some specific exceptions (such as arcade archives).
  • You cannot link a collection to the games within the collection due to trophy list requirements being too drastically different and often requiring different degrees of commitment from the player to 'finish' as opposed to a base list. One such example is Serious Sam 3:BFE and the variant contained within the collection. The collection only asks you to, in terms of specific SS3:BFE trophies, complete the story, complete the DLC, and execute several misc tasks that are of no difficulty whereas the original list demands quite a lot of the player. So in this example, the games, as far as the demands on the player, are very different as a whole. Often times a collection will also include updates or changes not present in the original, so in continuing the Serious Sam 3:BFE example, the collection is based off of Serious Sam Fusion, which made many changes to SS3:BFE and made some aspects of the game much harder than the original release and can be a very different experience to that of a previous game release. (not always the case though)
  • An additional issue in linking a collection and its games together are that if a trophy guide were made for all games contained within the collection, those guides would be a jumbled mess and have potential to crash that specific web page. Not to mention, because the trophy lists are often drastically different in a collection vs individual lists, many of the guides that would be linked by this would have a rather large chance of being useless and can be misleading to some. Not just users looking for answers, but also would-be authors wanting to write a guide for that specific collection release.
  • The alternative would be to make a 'copy' of the list and inject it into the individual stages of the games in which the collection is comprised of, however, such a function does not presently exist as of now.

Series have been a very long wanted community feature that was left to dust for years. When I took the GIT position, my first priority was to finish all of the groundwork required for the site feature to move forward from its beta state to full site implementation. Many aspects of series have been argued at length between different community groups and fans of franchises. While we do not presently have a perfect solution for every single game out there, what we have developed in terms of rules went a long way into standardizing a guideline in which to unify legacy series and newly created series. There are things in which the team themselves would like to change in how series information is displayed and presented to the public, but for now we can only work within the constraints that exist currently. Maybe if there were further updates to series as a site feature, what you would like could be implemented without causing problems, but at this time it is a tossup in where that update is in Sly's specific priority list.

 

I hope that this is a more complete answer to your question and suggestion.

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37 minutes ago, Dreggit said:

 

If it makes more sense to you, as the site is currently set up, doing this causes several issues:

  • To set it up in such a way in that a collection would count in a single stage, it would require all related games of a collection to also share that stage, which would then in many examples, violate other rules in which a series is defined since we require there to be a minimum of two stages with some specific exceptions (such as arcade archives).
  • You cannot link a collection to the games within the collection due to trophy list requirements being too drastically different and often requiring different degrees of commitment from the player to 'finish' as opposed to a base list. One such example is Serious Sam 3:BFE and the variant contained within the collection. The collection only asks you to, in terms of specific SS3:BFE trophies, complete the story, complete the DLC, and execute several misc tasks that are of no difficulty whereas the original list demands quite a lot of the player. So in this example, the games, as far as the demands on the player, are very different as a whole. Often times a collection will also include updates or changes not present in the original, so in continuing the Serious Sam 3:BFE example, the collection is based off of Serious Sam Fusion, which made many changes to SS3:BFE and made some aspects of the game much harder than the original release and can be a very different experience to that of a previous game release. (not always the case though)
  • An additional issue in linking a collection and its games together are that if a trophy guide were made for all games contained within the collection, those guides would be a jumbled mess and have potential to crash that specific web page. Not to mention, because the trophy lists are often drastically different in a collection vs individual lists, many of the guides that would be linked by this would have a rather large chance of being useless and can be misleading to some. Not just users looking for answers, but also would-be authors wanting to write a guide for that specific collection release.
  • The alternative would be to make a 'copy' of the list and inject it into the individual stages of the games in which the collection is comprised of, however, such a function does not presently exist as of now.

Series have been a very long wanted community feature that was left to dust for years. When I took the GIT position, my first priority was to finish all of the groundwork required for the site feature to move forward from its beta state to full site implementation. Many aspects of series have been argued at length between different community groups and fans of franchises. While we do not presently have a perfect solution for every single game out there, what we have developed in terms of rules went a long way into standardizing a guideline in which to unify legacy series and newly created series. There are things in which the team themselves would like to change in how series information is displayed and presented to the public, but for now we can only work within the constraints that exist currently. Maybe if there were further updates to series as a site feature, what you would like could be implemented without causing problems, but at this time it is a tossup in where that update is in Sly's specific priority list.

 

I hope that this is a more complete answer to your question and suggestion.

Thanks! Yeah I did wonder if there might be technical limitations. I definitely wasn't thinking collection trophy lists should be split into the trophies for their respective games, more just 100% on a game that contains A and B would count as 100% on A and 100% on B, though you're right that the trophies are often different for collections.

 

I didn't realise the series feature had any impact on the guides.

 

Having taken another look at the remaster examples I cited, I can see that the Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 games do in fact have the same set of trophies (I'd forgotten the original had no multiplayer trophies), though this is not the case for Spider-Man - the remaster has an extra DLC trophy set. I guess it's complicated!

Edited by yndajas
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5 hours ago, Ragowit said:

 

Took some time looking into it and verified it, added and also updated the banner to not be so... dated as it was.

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https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/1995-dungeons-dragons-chronicles-of-mystara and https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/2091-dungeons-dragons-ミスタラ英雄戦記 should be in the same stage (https://psnprofiles.com/series/437-dungeons-dragons). They should also have a "Other platforms and region" linked together. Both games is a bundle of "Tower of Doom" and "Shadow over Mystara". The Japanese version does have some minor gameplay differences according to this article: https://www.siliconera.com/dungeons-dragons-chronicles-of-mystaria-has-some-unique-features-only-for-japan/

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2 hours ago, Ragowit said:

https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/1995-dungeons-dragons-chronicles-of-mystara and https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/2091-dungeons-dragons-ミスタラ英雄戦記 should be in the same stage (https://psnprofiles.com/series/437-dungeons-dragons). They should also have a "Other platforms and region" linked together. Both games is a bundle of "Tower of Doom" and "Shadow over Mystara". The Japanese version does have some minor gameplay differences according to this article: https://www.siliconera.com/dungeons-dragons-chronicles-of-mystaria-has-some-unique-features-only-for-japan/

Yes, you are correct as seen here as well, highlighted name is the other stack:

OpTrduf.png

I've applied the relevant updates

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23 minutes ago, HuntingFever said:

Both of the My Riding Stables 2: A New Adventure lists need rescanning please, because I believe a patch has changed the trophy tiles. Also, these lists are EU and NA :).

 

Speaking of which; thoughts and ideas about the unknown stack of the first game?

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10 minutes ago, HuntingFever said:

It's either an Asian or Retail stack that never got released or it's a test list which was never supposed to see the light of day.

 

My finger is hovering over the Buy button for the german retail release on Amazon, but I have sent a few e-mails to various devs before I commit to another stupid purchase.

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1 hour ago, grifteskymfning said:

 

Speaking of which; thoughts and ideas about the unknown stack of the first game?

 

If it can be proven that the list was never released, or is a dev list, then it would be removed from the series similar to Playstation Home and the most recent PS5 example, Sackboy Adventure (in which it was a dev list only a developer owns). It will still be linked as an alternate list, just not in the series

1 hour ago, HuntingFever said:

Both of the My Riding Stables 2: A New Adventure lists need rescanning please, because I believe a patch has changed the trophy tiles. Also, these lists are EU and NA :).

I've refreshed these lists

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12 hours ago, Grimgado said:

Thank you, in accordance with rule 7 of series creation, LEGO Rockband has been removed from the Rockband series as LEGO is the more prominent series of the two.

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7 minutes ago, ZytHuM- said:

If I open the Uncharted: Drake's Fortune Remastered list, the guide linked is of PS3 version. But there is also the PS4 version guide, so it should be this version linked, not the other.

The guide linking issue has been something that Sly has said he would look into at some point :dunno:but when that would occur, noone really knows.

 

To explain in more detail, when two games are linked together, or any number of games for that matter, all of the guides that are made for all of the games are pooled together into one page. The guide that has the oldest publication date in the 'trophy guide' category is the one that is attached to the header across all linked games instead of the one that is appropriate to the version in question. Because this is an automated process, we cannot stop this from happening in any situation where games are linked together.

 

The obvious solution is to change it from an automated process to a manual process but that requires some coding and reconfiguration on Sly's part. The temporary solution would be to simply unlink the two versions of the game from one another, which has been done in the past (and likely in this case, but I would need to talk with the team before doing so), but ideally, all variants of a game should be linked together.

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23 hours ago, Dreggit said:

The guide linking issue has been something that Sly has said he would look into at some point :dunno:but when that would occur, noone really knows.

 

To explain in more detail, when two games are linked together, or any number of games for that matter, all of the guides that are made for all of the games are pooled together into one page. The guide that has the oldest publication date in the 'trophy guide' category is the one that is attached to the header across all linked games instead of the one that is appropriate to the version in question. Because this is an automated process, we cannot stop this from happening in any situation where games are linked together.

 

The obvious solution is to change it from an automated process to a manual process but that requires some coding and reconfiguration on Sly's part. The temporary solution would be to simply unlink the two versions of the game from one another, which has been done in the past (and likely in this case, but I would need to talk with the team before doing so), but ideally, all variants of a game should be linked together.

Agreed. Unfortunately, we can't tell the system which guide to prioritize when linked. It's just something you have to keep in mind when you see a guide linked when the game is for multiple systems.

 

As to unlinking it, I can see why people would want it, but I feel like we will open a can of worms if we do so and could cause a lot of headaches trying to figure out if we should link or unlink based off a bug in the current system.

 

Personally, I'd rather Sly just fix it. Lol.

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On 11/12/2020 at 6:35 PM, Dreggit said:

The guide linking issue has been something that Sly has said he would look into at some point :dunno:but when that would occur, noone really knows.

 

To explain in more detail, when two games are linked together, or any number of games for that matter, all of the guides that are made for all of the games are pooled together into one page. The guide that has the oldest publication date in the 'trophy guide' category is the one that is attached to the header across all linked games instead of the one that is appropriate to the version in question. Because this is an automated process, we cannot stop this from happening in any situation where games are linked together.

 

The obvious solution is to change it from an automated process to a manual process but that requires some coding and reconfiguration on Sly's part. The temporary solution would be to simply unlink the two versions of the game from one another, which has been done in the past (and likely in this case, but I would need to talk with the team before doing so), but ideally, all variants of a game should be linked together.

Thank you for your answer

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