AusLeviathan

The grind isn't that bad

42 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

The issue is that Biome 2 and 6 have far more rooms in certain sections than they need, for Biome 6 it's the beginning section, for Biome 2 it's the end section, once you know that it's pretty simple to speed run it a few times.

 

Annoying that it's RNG for sure but perfectly possible and a relatively short platinum trophy by PS exclusive standards.

 

There's really no need for any changes to be made to the collectibles and I don't really think it needs a way to save mid run either, fixing up the potential for crashing (I only had one crash in about 20 hours of play) is the only thing that really needs to be done.

 

Basically if you want to be a trophy hunter then you have to accept that sometimes it takes a little effort to hunt down the last few trophies, focus your attention on that rather than pleading for the developers to make it easier for you, it's more fun when you've achieved it yourself rather than having it handed to you.

Edited by AusLeviathan
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Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, BloodyRutz said:

It's literally RNG. Just because it was short for you, does not mean it will be short for somebody else.

 

There's a limit to how many rooms there are though, it might take some longer but you'd have to have the absolute worst luck for it to take you more than 25-30 hours and that's if you're going slow.

 

8 minutes ago, BloodyRutz said:

But getting RNG collectible is hardly an achievement, so there is zero satisfaction in it.

 

You have to find them, that's pretty satisfying, especially since you can't just look up where they are and go to that place, you have to hunt them down yourself.

Edited by AusLeviathan
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1 hour ago, AusLeviathan said:

Basically if you want to be a trophy hunter then you have to accept that sometimes it takes a little effort to hunt down the last few trophies, focus your attention on that rather than pleading for the developers to make it easier for you, it's more fun when you've achieved it yourself rather than having it handed to you.

 

This is quite the loaded comment. There are tonnes of threads already debating about and around this across numerous games, is there really any need to feel compelled to dredge the corpse up again here? It doesn't seem relevant at all to your post.

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2 minutes ago, Crispy_Oglop said:

This is quite the loaded comment. There are tonnes of threads already debating about and around this across numerous games, is there really any need to feel compelled to dredge the corpse up again here? It doesn't seem relevant at all to your post.

 

It's relevant because for all the people suggesting that the room rates need to be adjusted to make the collectibles more common and that saving needs to be added mid run, it's a fairly standard platinum that really just requires you to play the game.

 

This game requires you to actually explore it yourself, you can't just look up guides and go where they tell you, you have to work for it and personally I applaud the developers for making that choice.

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I hate RNG and procedurally generated levels but it's not like we didn't know about these things going in. Yeah, it sucks having to grind for a while to find a random collectible in a random location, but that's the game. Search for it or don't. 

I do want the ability to save the game, though. That's just a stupid oversight that needs to be addressed ASAP. Not even for easiness or anything, just as a freakin courtesy.

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I personally don't care about the saving complaint, I think it's a fairly easy game to get overpowered in and any run can be a winning run.

 

However, the trophies aren't skill-based which is the biggest point of complaint. I think most people would agree the grind wouldn't be bad if the lore collectibles were tied to things like performing certain actions or doing particularly well on a floor. But because it's all random then I have trouble swallowing it. I think most trophy hunters appreciate the challenge, but this is a test of endurance more than anything else. 

 

I say that, and I'm still going to try for the platinum. After getting the platinum Crash 4 I felt like I could do anything, this at times feels exponentially worse because skill is independent of what I need. 

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16 minutes ago, Lowlliet said:


Problem is you’re looking at it from just your perspective. Maybe it was easy and short for you but there are people, including me, who finished the game in ~15 hours and spent another 50 hours just for 5 collectibles. That’s the insane thing. And the biggest problem is that there’s no way to affect that chance. That’s why people are frustrated. 
 

I’d rather speedrun the game or play it from the beginning to the end without dying than rely on RNG. 

 

I’m not against grinds at all. I kinda even enjoyed grinding in Dark Souls 3 or AoT for 100+ hours. But some of these collectibles here are insanely rare to get for some people. 

And no, there’s really no satisfaction in finding an audio log after playing through the biome 50 times. You’re just glad it’s over and there’s no sense of pride or skill in that. You’re just counting how many hours it took you and being pissed that somebody else got it on 5th try. 

 

Critizicing their suffering isn’t gonna help them. 

Yeah have to agree with this to be honest - may be short for some people but not for others as it is completely luck based. Getting the collectibles trophies are simple yes but I wouldn’t go and say short, all dependant on a person’s luck. I completed the game in like 15-18 hours and didn’t see certain collectibles until like just now, my 25th hour, so like an extra 10 hours in. Still kissing collectibles now to be honest reminds me of the original PS3 Demon’s Souls grinding for one item, pure bladestone, when farming for it some people got it in like seven hours. I got it in like 2 days, just pure luck. 

 

I still love the game, really is excellent but there’s more satisfaction in completing something when it is hard than if it is down to RNG in my opinion. 

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Posted (edited)

29 minutes ago, Lowlliet said:

And the biggest problem is that there’s no way to affect that chance.

 

Depends on what we're talking about, the scout logs seem to spawn mostly in common/permanent rooms, if you've done multiple runs and you can't find one then you most likely haven't done what's required to spawn them.

 

The ciphers are a littler trickier but from what I observed the only ones that will require a lot of runs are Biome's 2 and 6.

 

Biome 2 is because something like a third of the ciphers are hidden in rooms that appear in the section before you teleport to the top of the mountain and since there are so few rooms that appear in that section compared to what can spawn it can take a lot of runs, but you can get to the top of the mountain a few minutes after starting a run if you speed run it so it's easy to just focus on those rooms and keep restarting if you don't find what you need.

 

Biome 6 is the opposite, too many rooms at the beginning but much like Biome 2 it's easy enough to speed run it until you can find what you need.

 

It's just a matter of working out which areas are most likely to have the missing scout logs/ciphers and targeting them.

Edited by AusLeviathan
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Been searching for 2-3 days for last 3 glyphs zzzz

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1 hour ago, AusLeviathan said:

 

It's relevant because for all the people suggesting that the room rates need to be adjusted to make the collectibles more common and that saving needs to be added mid run, it's a fairly standard platinum that really just requires you to play the game.

 

This game requires you to actually explore it yourself, you can't just look up guides and go where they tell you, you have to work for it and personally I applaud the developers for making that choice.

 

I agree with you on this one. This genre as well as those hard-core shoot em ups are not usually my cup of tea, but the sci fi "Twilight Zone" feel I got was more than enough to compel me to try it.

 

The game forces you to play defensively and cautiously at first, and will punish you for not exploring to the fullest. If you play it less like a shooter and more like an RPG, carefully making a build that will work with your playstyle as well as keep your survivability up. There's pros and cons to many upgrades and boosts you can get, and I think many players are playing this with a shooter mentality of kill everything, go to next stage, kill everything. There's plenty to find on the side paths and fully exploring a biome should at least give some resources and am artifact or two (notice I didnt say good ones lol).

 

But it also comes down to resource management. Are you hoarding 30 Ether? There's no reason to, you just waste the additional you pick up. Invest it in a reconstructor and fully dive into a biome so you aren't afraid of death, or use some to get obolites for upgrades. If you have more than a few hundred obolites..why? They do nothing for you if you don't spend them, unless you have the Golden Artifact that gives you damage bonus per 100 obolites I think? 

 

Learn what to sacrifice upfront. When it comes to parasites, the first negative I'll allow is acid pools and hits to my proficiency. You'll easily find proficiency boosts to compensate and can raise it easily. If you are unlucky with runs, don't take on ones that cause malfunctions on removal, or damage integrity. The artifact that boosts positive effects of parasites is a godsend..as well as 20% stagger increase for each parasite. You will shred through mobs like nothing.

 

Integrity is your lifeblood, don't piss it away, and if you do, know when to do so safely. Don't pick up healing green items if you are at full health, (the resins are a diff story they increase your max integrity). You might get beat up the next room and could really use that health item you just wasted while at full integrity. 

 

If you are suffering with weapons, are you just grabbing what you find? Learn what the traits are, it makes a HUGE difference. The shotgun with full auto and slug is very powerful, and has some surprising range to it. My personal favorite is the Hollowbreaker? With Serrated perk and the two Portal perks..this thing Tears through enemies and bosses even at low levels. I can be proficiency 30 and the weapon is at 15 but for some reason those perks do ludicrous amounts of damage. Learn the perks! You should keep your starting pistol until you find a weapon you are comfortable with, and in the beginning don't be afraid to melee! Melee is very powerful and for some enemies it can stagger them, allowing you to get some shots in at a safe distance. This is great when you still have the sidearm.

 

The game itself isn't hard, after the first few hours you should have a general idea of what to expect, the enemy variety isn't that great to warrant massive strategy changes in encounters. Play smart, play safe, and understand your equipment and options available to you each run.

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The problem was some were so much rarer than others.  running through biome 1 for 15hrs just to see a room ive never seen before.. Thats a problem. if they all had the same chance of showing or if there was a higher chance of a collectible showing up based on if you needed it.

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Im all for the Grind..... I have Platinum Far More grandly games than this (looking at you the 100+ hours I spent Maxing out the Spheregid in ffX) But the difference here compared to most games is there is no progression. Iv spent over a dozen hours Looking for a Single Glyph in Biome 2.... I stopped counting around Cycle 150. That Rubs me the wrong way is Literally NONE of those Previous 150+ runs over 12 hours count for anything. They didn't improve my chances of finding this last Gods forsaken Glyph. Nor did they really Improve my Skill in the game.... I finished Act 2 in under 5 hours and act 3 in under 12.... I think i have the skill part handled 

and Because none of the runs count for anything there is no real sense of progression. When I do find this cursed Object it won't be Satisfaction I feel... but Frustration for the Countless Hours Waisted for no other reason than I go "Unlucky". Nothing I did personally was the Cause, I wasn't making mistakes or Playing Poorly.... I simply got unlucky...

In short, there are two Types of Grind In Games.... This is unquestionably the Bad kind. 

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4 hours ago, AusLeviathan said:

The issue is that Biome 2 and 6 have far more rooms in certain sections than they need, for Biome 6 it's the beginning section, for Biome 2 it's the end section, once you know that it's pretty simple to speed run it a few times.

 

Annoying that it's RNG for sure but perfectly possible and a relatively short platinum trophy by PS exclusive standards.

 

There's really no need for any changes to be made to the collectibles and I don't really think it needs a way to save mid run either, fixing up the potential for crashing (I only had one crash in about 20 hours of play) is the only thing that really needs to be done.

 

Basically if you want to be a trophy hunter then you have to accept that sometimes it takes a little effort to hunt down the last few trophies, focus your attention on that rather than pleading for the developers to make it easier for you, it's more fun when you've achieved it yourself rather than having it handed to you.

 

Missing one Scout Log on Biome 1, did it 50 times (literally) and nothing. I'm done with this shi*. When they update the randomness I'll back to it.

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1 minute ago, RafaelBCastro said:

Missing one Scout Log on Biome 1, did it 50 times (literally) and nothing.

 

Which Scout Log is this? Because it's very likely you have to do something to trigger it spawning first.

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Most people seem to be missing log 9

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2 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

 

Which Scout Log is this? Because it's very likely you have to do something to trigger it spawning first.

 

Scout Log 9

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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, RafaelBCastro said:

Scout Log 9

 

From memory that one spawns after you see the scene where you pick up a parasite, there's a side room which contains a parasite that you're meant to enter and go near during your second run in Biome 1 after your first death but I suspect a lot of people missed that on their initial runs and then haven't checked it out since because it's just a random room with one parasite.

 

Have you seen that scene yet? If not I don't think it'll spawn until you trigger that scene.

Edited by AusLeviathan
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3 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

 

From memory that one spawns after you see the scene where you pick up a parasite, there's a side room which contains a parasite that you're meant to enter and go near during your second run in Biome 1 after your first death but I suspect a lot of people missed that on their initial runs and then haven't checked it out since because it's just a random room with one parasite.

 

Have you seen that scene yet? If not I don't think it'll spawn until you trigger that scene.

Nope.

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10 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

 

From memory that one spawns after you see the scene where you pick up a parasite, there's a side room which contains a parasite that you're meant to enter and go near during your second run in Biome 1 after your first death but I suspect a lot of people missed that on their initial runs and then haven't checked it out since because it's just a random room with one parasite.

 

Have you seen that scene yet? If not I don't think it'll spawn until you trigger that scene.

 

Yes, I triggered that scene

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Posted (edited)

14 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

 

From memory that one spawns after you see the scene where you pick up a parasite, there's a side room which contains a parasite that you're meant to enter and go near during your second run in Biome 1 after your first death but I suspect a lot of people missed that on their initial runs and then haven't checked it out since because it's just a random room with one parasite.

 

Have you seen that scene yet? If not I don't think it'll spawn until you trigger that scene.


You see that scene like in your 1st-2nd run through that biome at the very beginning. Then it can take 1-100+ runs to get it. 
 

Did you even read the other forum topics here?

Edited by Lowlliet
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12 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

 

From memory that one spawns after you see the scene where you pick up a parasite, there's a side room which contains a parasite that you're meant to enter and go near during your second run in Biome 1 after your first death but I suspect a lot of people missed that on their initial runs and then haven't checked it out since because it's just a random room with one parasite.

 

Have you seen that scene yet? If not I don't think it'll spawn until you trigger that scene.

See.... now you're trying to Justify your stance but Litetraly making things up.... Those who are missing Log 9 and are serious about finding it have done the research. They know exactly what room it's in. what doors its behind. and the Horror stories of people doing 100+ runs to find it... 

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Posted (edited)

27 minutes ago, Chrisrd said:

See.... now you're trying to Justify your stance but Litetraly making things up.... Those who are missing Log 9 and are serious about finding it have done the research. They know exactly what room it's in. what doors its behind. and the Horror stories of people doing 100+ runs to find it... 

 

Every single scout log I got was either received on my initial run (and I did Biome 4-6 in a single initial run) or spawned the next time I went to that Biome after triggering the spawn conditions.

 

Do you really think I'm that lucky? That I could find every single scout log at the first possible opportunity whilst others are doing a 100+ runs to achieve the same.

 

It's possible that the update mess up has caused issues with some save files, I never got the update that caused all the problems so that might have helped.

 

What I can tell you is that I got all cipher's in Biome 1 by accident (the trophy popped when I went back during Act 3), Biome 2 took 12 extra runs (every second run resulting in a new cipher room appearing, mostly in the end section, also one of the cipher's doesn't add to the total so even when you get them all it'll still pop up on the screen as 19/20), Biome 3 took 3 extra runs (I needed to trigger a scene to spawn a Scout Log too), Biome 4 took 3 extra runs (Another scene was required to spawn the last Scout Log), Biome 5 took 2 extra runs and Biome 6 took 10 extra runs (I stopped each run at the section where you go down further since I guessed there were no more Ciphers down there).

 

It's just about running through all the unlocked rooms and looking for any icons that could be cipher's, for scout logs you don't even need to check each room, you can just check the map legend at the end of your run to see if it's in the legend.

 

If you've really done over 100 runs through a Biome and can't find a Scout Log or Cipher then I would suggest that maybe your save file is glitched, because there simply isn't enough rooms for someone to go through that many runs without running into all the cipher's/scout logs unless something is preventing them from appearing.

Edited by AusLeviathan
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