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DLC on disc in physical version?

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Hi,

 

is the DLC included on disc in the Intergrade physical version? Or is it just a code in the box? Thanks in advance.

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4 minutes ago, PatinumNumemon said:

 

LAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

Can't we just go back to when DLC was on disc when bundled with the base game?? It helps preserve the version of the game with the most content in a future where digital content can be removed at any time for any reason with no possible chance of being restored. Not saying it will happen to the FF7R DLC, but anything is a possibility with digital content... 😡

 

That's why I asked. I'd happily give them more money, if they had just included the DLC on disc. I hate buying incomplete physical versions.

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25 minutes ago, PatinumNumemon said:

 

LAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

Can't we just go back to when DLC was on disc when bundled with the base game?? It helps preserve the version of the game with the most content in a future where digital content can be removed at any time for any reason with no possible chance of being restored. Not saying it will happen to the FF7R DLC, but anything is a possibility with digital content... 1f621.png

 

I agree, but remember the unholy tsunami of whining entitlement that used to come crashing down on developers who though ahead, and actually did do that?

 

They used to take an absolute litany of shit from people with the "Wah-wah, if it's on the disc, why should I need to pay more for it?" mentality. 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I agree, but remember the unholy tsunami of whining entitlement that used to come crashing down on developers who though ahead, and actually did do that?

 

They used to take an absolute litany of shit from people with the "Wah-wah, if it's on the disc, why should I need to pay more for it?" mentality. 

 

 

 

 

Well, in order to unlock that content you'd still need the online service, so that's indeed even more stupid..

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Just now, lesk8vaincra said:

 

Well, in order to unlock that content you'd still need the online service, so that's indeed even more stupid..

 

From a preservationist point of view, sure, but It was a good idea back then, purely in term of how irritatingly long download speeds on the PS3 were - I always greatly appreciated when buying dlc was a simple transaction to unlock, rather than a purchase, download, close game, install, reopen, check it worked type affair.

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48 minutes ago, PatinumNumemon said:

a future where digital content can be removed at any time for any reason with no possible chance of being restored. Not saying it will happen to the FF7R DLC, but anything is a possibility with digital content...

 

36 minutes ago, BGriff1986 said:

Ah, I’m sure we’ll be fiiiiiine when it comes to digital preservation. After all, it’s not like Sony recently threatened to kill the online stores for three of their legacy platforms or anything…

 

10 minutes ago, BGriff1986 said:

it can fuck over the preowned space. A friend recently bought a couple of used “trilogy” collections on Switch, only to discover that he actually only has access to one game cos the others were single-use vouchers

 

Unless the servers that push updates/patches are preserved for legacy devices, all these games that need a Day-1 patch (practically all major game releases) will become useless. Both digital and physical alike will be affected. DLC as a general practice is bullshit and was originally used as a deterrent to keep people from buying used games or selling their release copies once they finished the main story.

 

It's just bullshit in general, and all the major players are doing their part to make sure they get their unjustified income from the end-user.

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Posted (edited)

42 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I agree, but remember the unholy tsunami of whining entitlement that used to come crashing down on developers who though ahead, and actually did do that?

 

They used to take an absolute litany of shit from people with the "Wah-wah, if it's on the disc, why should I need to pay more for it?" mentality. 

 

 

 

 

The problem in the past, was that DLC was on the disc and still stuck behind a paywall... like an unlock code or a 10mb unlock key downloaded from the store (which fwiw is basically the same as not including it on the disc from a preservation perspective, since you can't access it without your PSN account and an active internet connection).  So the content was completed and just very blatantly withheld for $$$.  Since the perception is that DLC is content that they didn't have the time or money to include at launch, including it on the disc at launch really kinda flaunts in the face of that.

 

In this case, Intergrade is effectively a GOTY/complete edition.  The base game has been out for a while, no one would really complain about a re-print that includes the DLC.

 

Personally, as a small time collector, it's a shame the DLC isn't on disc.  But... really, I'm more concerned about getting FF7R for the PS5 on disc.  As long as the full game works, I can look past maybe not being able to play some DLC in 20 years when the PS5 store goes down.  Frustrating as it is, that's a compromise I've already made countless times over the last generation or two.

Edited by Dreakon13
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Just now, Dreakon13 said:

 

The problem in the past, was that DLC was on the disc and still stuck behind a paywall... like an unlock code or a 10mb unlock key downloaded from the store (which fwiw is basically the same as not including it on the disc from a preservation perspective).  So the content was completed and just intentionally withheld for $$$.  Since the perception is that DLC is content that they didn't have the time or money to include at launch, including it on the disc at launch really kinda flaunts in the face of that.

 

Yeah, I know, but it was a dumb perception then, and it still is.

 

I mean, if you buy a phone, it comes with some apps and such, but doing so doesn't entitle you to every app currently available, just because you own the phone that can run them.

If you buy a cable box, that doesn't mean you are entitled to every channel, even though you have bought all the equipment necessary to view them, besides the actual access.

 

 

I can understand the 'flat' "No DLC of any kind" argument - like @Helyxmakes above.

 

 I disagree with it, but I get it. It's a full proof and perfectly reasonable take - just not one I subscribe to...

 

...but the idea that it was somehow more of an issue for the dlc to be on the disc from launch, and you were being asked to pay to unlock it, vs. it being a paid download was always bizarre to me.

I mean, what does the delivery mechanism have to do with the price?

How can requiring a lengthly download and some money be somehow worse that just requiring the same money alone?

 

 

Just now, Dreakon13 said:

In this case, Intergrade is effectively a GOTY/complete edition.  The base game has been out for a while, no one would really complain about a re-print that includes the DLC.

 

Personally, as a small time collector, it's a shame the DLC isn't on disc.  But... really, I'm more concerned about getting FF7R for the PS5 on disc.  As long as the full game works, I can look past maybe not being able to play some DLC in 20 years when the PS5 store goes down.

 

Yes - you're absolutely right - @BGriff1986 pointed that out above -  I hadn't considered that the stuff in question here is part of the base price as well anyways, so it is a little odd that it isn't on disc...

 

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I'll wait a year and see what importing some of these versions look like. I want every version of my favorite game. Once prices hit around $20, I'll start buying.

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10 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Yeah, I know, but it was a dumb perception then, and it still is.

 

I mean, if you buy a phone, it comes with some apps and such, but doing so doesn't entitle you to every app currently available, just because you own the phone that can run them.

If you buy a cable box, that doesn't mean you are entitled to every channel, even though you have bought all the equipment necessary to view them, besides the actual access.

 

 

I can understand the 'flat' "No DLC of any kind" argument - like @Helyxmakes above.

 

 I disagree with it, but I get it. It's a full proof and perfectly reasonable take - just not one I subscribe to...

 

...but the idea that it was somehow more of an issue for the dlc to be on the disc from launch, and you were being asked to pay to unlock it, vs. it being a paid download was always bizarre to me.

I mean, what does the delivery mechanism have to do with the price?

How can requiring a lengthly download and some money be somehow worse that just requiring the same money alone?

 

 

 

Yes - you're absolutely right - @BGriff1986 pointed that out above -  I hadn't considered that the stuff in question here is part of the base price as well anyways, so it is a little odd that it isn't on disc...

 

Because game expansions used to be something the developer started work on after they finished the game

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Posted (edited)

13 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Yeah, I know, but it was a dumb perception then, and it still is.

 

I mean, if you buy a phone, it comes with some apps and such, but doing so doesn't entitle you to every app currently available, just because you own the phone that can run them.

If you buy a cable box, that doesn't mean you are entitled to every channel, even though you have bought all the equipment necessary to view them, besides the actual access.

 

 

I can understand the 'flat' "No DLC of any kind" argument - like @Helyxmakes above.

 

 I disagree with it, but I get it. It's a full proof and perfectly reasonable take - just not one I subscribe to...

 

...but the idea that it was somehow more of an issue for the dlc to be on the disc from launch, and you were being asked to pay to unlock it, vs. it being a paid download was always bizarre to me.

I mean, what does the delivery mechanism have to do with the price?

How can requiring a lengthly download and some money be somehow worse that just requiring the same money alone?

 

 

I kind agree with the perception.  It's more about DLC being available at all on launch... not necessarily on disc vs download.  Time spent working on DLC prior to launch is time taken away from the product you're actually paying for.  Including it on the disc is just more aggressive, since there's no reasonable argument to be made that it couldn't have been made a part of the game you just paid for... since it's already there lol.  At least a download you can argue was completed after the disc was pressed.

 

Phones and cable boxes are platforms, more akin to buying a console, with an expectation of additional charges for new services, new apps, new features, etc.  Games are games, and people understandably had a difficult time seeing them as the "starting point" of the investment... especially before Games as a Service became a thing, and especially when the tactics in doing so are so blatantly not in the consumers favor.

Edited by Dreakon13
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2 minutes ago, Flipendo52 said:

Because game expansions used to be something the developer started work on after they finished the game

 

Well, sure, and a refrigerator used to be a bag hung out the window in the cold, but times changed. 

 

It still doesn't mean that paying for something and having it instantly is worse than paying for something then having to download it...

 

 

1 minute ago, Dreakon13 said:

 

I kind agree with the perception.  It's more about DLC being available at all on launch... not necessarily on disc vs download.  Time spent working on DLC prior to launch is time taken away from the product you're actually paying for.  Including it on the disc is just more aggressive, since there's no reasonable argument to be made that it couldn't have been made a part of the game you just paid for... since it's already there lol.  At least a download you can argue was completed after the disc was pressed.

 

Phones and cable boxes are platforms, more akin to buying a console, with an expectation of additional charges for new services, new apps, new features, etc.  Games are games, and people understandably had a difficult time seeing them as the "starting point" of the investment (especially before Games as a Service became a thing).  Especially when the tactics in doing so are so blatantly not in the consumers favor.

 

See - to me that's a valid argument against day one dlc, but not in favour one way or the other for download vs. delivery on disc.

 

I don't agree on the argument anyways really - I mean, if you buy a mid range car, you don't then complain that you aren't getting all the top-specced additions thrown in for free simply because "They were available at launch, so the time to develop them was part of what I paid for"...

 

...but that's a whole different kettle of fish right there 😂

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

See - to me that's a valid argument against day one dlc, but not in favour one way or the other for download vs. delivery on disc.

 

I don't agree on the argument anyways really - I mean, if you buy a mid range car, you don't then complain that you aren't getting all the top-specced additions thrown in for free simply because "They were available at launch, so the time to develop them was part of what I paid for"...

 

...but that's a whole different kettle of fish right there 😂

 

 

That kinda goes back to my point about people not seeing games as the start of the investment.  The mid range car is the console, and the games are already add-ons to that investment.  So DLC is an add-on to the add-on.  I can see that being frustrating in it's own right, no less when it's there on the disc done and ready to go just waiting for you to send another $20 out to unlock it.

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Just now, Dreakon13 said:

 

That kinda goes back to my point about people not seeing games as the start of the investment.  The mid range car is the console, and the games are already add-ons to that investment.  So DLC is an add-on to the add-on.  I can see that being frustrating in it's own right, no less when it's there on the disc done and ready to go just waiting for you to send another $20 out to unlock it.

 

Sure - I see the argument - I guess I just view it as fundamentally coming down to the idea of charging for the specific product. Don't get me wrong, there have been cases where I would make a strong argument that something that was dlc should have been part of the main game (remember Prince of Persia 2008? That game literally sold you the end of the game separately 😄) but, for the most part, I don't have an issue with a company making dlc to sell as a separate thing, and planning that ahead of time. 

 

I mean - as long as I feel the main game is worth the money I paid on it's own - then it really doesn't matter to me if the company was using 100% of it's development time on that one game, or if they had a team siphoned off doing dlc.

I mean, lets face it, most developers are working on more than one game at any given time anyways, and have an ebb and flow of personnel from one to the other as the project demands, so the idea that "time spent on DLC was taking away from the main game" I think is a false one.

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Posted (edited)

Why is there always a "smart" person who's perception of others opinions revolves around "dumb" and "whining" when it's common knowledge at this point that devs themselves told the higher-ups that keeping content locked on disc would be a PR disaster on so many levels.

 

P.S.

For those of you who's not into archeology and actively blanking on my comment - sorry folks, thought we were talking SFxT for a moment.

Edited by VegaMan-X4
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The DLC being a code in the box is why I'm not going to bother re-buying this physically on PS5. Already have the PS4 physical, and it's a free upgrade, so what's the point?

 

I do hope they perhaps release some kind of "complete" edition in the future. Maybe a box set when all the "parts" of the remake are out, and everything is on the discs. But considering FF15 Royal Edition physically was just the base game on disc and a code for the Royal/DLC content, I'm not holding my breath.

 

The main issue with the DLC not being on the disc in my case, is that it means both me and my husband are going to have to buy the DLC individually, basically buying it twice just so we can each have it on our own PS5s instead of just being able to share it via the disc. But I'm willing to bet that's why some devs/publishers don't put all the content on disc, so you're pressured or forced to buy at least something if you dare to get the game pre-owned.

 

At least it's not as bad as some "physical" editions have been, like Life is Strange 2 physical not having the last episode on disc, and it's not even like the Telltale discs where the disc itself lets you download the rest of the episodes - it's a one use code. Anyone else that uses the same copy would need to buy episode 5. Imagine when that game either gets delisted one day or the PS4 store has long since shut down, and you can never play the last episode if you never redeemed it previously. One of the many reasons I feel so disillusioned with modern gaming.

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On 10/06/2021 at 0:21 PM, PatinumNumemon said:

 

LAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

Can't we just go back to when DLC was on disc when bundled with the base game?? It helps preserve the version of the game with the most content in a future where digital content can be removed at any time for any reason with no possible chance of being restored. Not saying it will happen to the FF7R DLC, but anything is a possibility with digital content... 1f621.png

The whole game doesn't even fit on a disc anyway so what does it matter 

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28 minutes ago, Footos22 said:

The whole game doesn't even fit on a disc anyway so what does it matter 

That's not true, it does. The Intergrade physical version is one disc only. Got my copy recently. And even if it didn't fit on one disc, it would certainly fit on two, like the PS4 version.

 

The point is having an actually complete and patched version of a game on your shelf. It's as simple as that. Some people like collecting games, others do it for preservation purposes, some have a shitty internet connection and can't download huge updates/DLCs, a few are planning to sell the game later on or want to lend it to friends or family. Whatever their reason is, none of the aforementioned use cases are possible with downloaded, digital-only games. You don't even OWN digital games, you just have permission to play it until .. you don't, because someone decided to close the store / revoke your license / close your account or whatever.

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On 6/10/2021 at 2:53 PM, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I agree, but remember the unholy tsunami of whining entitlement that used to come crashing down on developers who though ahead, and actually did do that?

 

They used to take an absolute litany of shit from people with the "Wah-wah, if it's on the disc, why should I need to pay more for it?" mentality. 

 

 

 

 

that's not the same thing. and that dic still needs online, so it being on disc is worthless

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I'll just wait for a complete/definitive/ultimate edition for PS5, PS6 or PS7. I'm not in a hurry.

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15 hours ago, Footos22 said:

The whole game doesn't even fit on a disc anyway so what does it matter 

 

You're right. The whole game doesn't fit on one disc. Hell, it took 3 discs for the original game back on PS1. But it was all completely physical, meaning on disc and was the complete experience the game had to offer.

 

Selling games with codes for expansions instead of putting it on disc is not a consumer friendly marketing tactic. If you let a friend borrow your copy, they will be playing an inferior version of the game because they do not have access to what you have (which is the complete and superior version of the game) because the DLC code only works once. If you decide you no longer want the game anymore but you used the code, when you return it to your local game store (probably GameStop), they will only be giving you back a partial refund because you are missing half the copy because the code is used already. Even if you did not use the code, they probably won't care, as they will still slap a preowned sticker on it while telling the next buyer that code probably won't work. This all builds onto the scariest yet valid point: if you lose access to your online account BY ANY MEANS, whether you forgot your password or email and forgot your email's password, you get your account stolen by a hacker, or your account is suspended or banned for a period of time or indefinitely, you lose the privilege to download what you have paid for! And NO, you WON'T be getting it back if you make a new account. You will have to buy it again, along with everything else you bought that was digital on that account. Better hope nothing you owned was delisted, or it is out of your reach forever! These are all supporting facts to the number one reason why people like me want their DLC on disc if it is offered along with a physical copy of the base game: you do not own your digital content.

 

Whenever you buy digital content, you are not buying the ability to own it, you are buying a license to use it. And much like your driver's license if you are arrested for DUI, your license can be revoked. This cannot happen if the DLC is on disc, as you physically have it yourself. 

 

It matters because maybe 20, 30, 40 years from now games like The Last of Us Remastered, The Witcher 3, Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor, Mortal Kombat 2011, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas will all be playable in their most complete forms because their DLC is on the disc while games like Fallout 4, Horizon Zero Dawn, Marvel's Spider-Man, Mortal Kombat X, and many more will only have their base version playable because Sony decides to close their online stores, making buying these extra content packs inaccessible. To add icing to the cake, if your CMOS battery dies in your PS4, it won't even play the discs regardless if your copy has DLC or not!!! This is why DLC on disc is important; so when in the future people have to emulate the game because the console they wish to play it on is no longer possible and when the physical copies of the games become scarce, people will still have a way to play the most complete version of their favorite game.

 

People always shrug off things like this but people fail to realize that video games can be an art form, and must be preserved much like it's counterparts being music, film, illustrations and books. Games like The Last of Us according to a lot of people help prove this point. But if we allow companies to potentially ruin our favorite games all because they want as much money to come in as possible, then we will continue to have low quality, minimal effort games pushed out to us with no choice but to accept it, which will hurt the medium horribly for a time to come, maybe forever.

 

Do not accept what they are doing with this DLC, at all.

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