The Euros 2020 (2021) Thread

[Agent_Renegade22]

1 hour ago, GloriousFury9414 said:

When Chiesa got hurt, and Insigne went off also, Italy had no major threat going forward in attack. Belotti is very average and Bernardeschi didn't score a single goal for Juventus last season. Instead of being negative like we were after Italy began to find their feet, we needed to take the initiative at that point going into extra time. Think this is where Southgate got it all wrong for me. We had to be positive at this point. 

 

He reminds me of Solskjaer, installing a good team spirit into the squad but is questionable tactically. He is very much stuck to a pattern and constantly plays it safe. He struggles to adapt to any changes to the flow of the game. Both men made poor tactical choices in finals, when it actually mattered.

 

Difference is Mancini is a very good coach who can adapt. Italy switched to a False 9 moving Insigne centrally after taking off Immobile for Berardi. Insigne's movement dragging around the English defence cause us all sorts of problems. From that point, they utterly dominated for a period getting the Bonucci goal during that point. Southgate had no response.

 

Away from that Bonucci was the player I enjoyed watching the most at the Euros. Such a immensely talented player. Bonucci/Chiellini are right up there as a duo with Nesta/Maldini, Cannavaro/Nesta and Baresi/Costacurta. 

 

Also, surely Jorginho has to be a major contender for the Balon D'or. Think Messi may get it with the Copa win, but surely he's gotta be in the top 5.

This is true, our attackers played very poorly during last games. 

Immobile suddenly became a ghost and Belotti has dropped his performance for 2 years now.

That early goal from Shaw was a cold shower for the team, but England played really bad during the second half, I really felt no danger at all until few chances during ET, but Italy had some too.

I was sure Bonucci-Chiellini would've took care of Kane exactly like they did with Lukaku, guess which was the only match where Italy really suffered this year? Against Spain because Luis Enrique had the clever move to keep Morata out so our defence suffered Dani Olmo-Torres-Oyarzabal trio, not mentioning Spain's midfield.

Southgate should've subbed Kane out maybe, this may sound crazy for you, it's your captain, but considering the amount of talented players you have in your team (Foden for example could've been very dangerous) playing with a different scheme could've changed something.

 

Also putting young players like Sancho and Rashford, 30 seconds before the end of the game just to let them take the penalties was a risky move. I don't understand why some managers do that, I mean leaving a crucial penalty to a player that haven't touched the ball at all is crazy and I've noticed that many times this leads to a fail, indeed.

Why taking off Henderson? I can't believe Hendo doesn't have the personality to take an important penalty he's the captain of Liverpool and he won both UCL and EPL with the Reds.

 

Jorginho had a fantastic year but I don't know if they will give the prize to him, even though this year is very difficult to find a good candidate. I mean there is no player that played soo good compared to others to say "He definitely deserves it", I was going to say Kanté but France failed so early and that will exclude Mbappé as well. Cristiano? Amazing season for a 36 yo boy like him but he didn't win nothing special this year, Messi won Copa America but Lewandowski had another great season he's just unlucky to be playing for Poland, good potential but they waste a lot. It will surely be interesting to watch Ballon d'Or award ceremony this year!

[Glorious Fury]

1 hour ago, Agent_Renegade22 said:

This is true, our attackers played very poorly during last games. 

Immobile suddenly became a ghost and Belotti has dropped his performance for 2 years now.

That early goal from Shaw was a cold shower for the team, but England played really bad during the second half, I really felt no danger at all until few chances during ET, but Italy had some too.

I was sure Bonucci-Chiellini would've took care of Kane exactly like they did with Lukaku, guess which was the only match where Italy really suffered this year? Against Spain because Luis Enrique had the clever move to keep Morata out so our defence suffered Dani Olmo-Torres-Oyarzabal trio, not mentioning Spain's midfield.

Southgate should've subbed Kane out maybe, this may sound crazy for you, it's your captain, but considering the amount of talented players you have in your team (Foden for example could've been very dangerous) playing with a different scheme could've changed something.

 

Also putting young players like Sancho and Rashford, 30 seconds before the end of the game just to let them take the penalties was a risky move. I don't understand why some managers do that, I mean leaving a crucial penalty to a player that haven't touched the ball at all is crazy and I've noticed that many times this leads to a fail, indeed.

Why taking off Henderson? I can't believe Hendo doesn't have the personality to take an important penalty he's the captain of Liverpool and he won both UCL and EPL with the Reds.

 

Jorginho had a fantastic year but I don't know if they will give the prize to him, even though this year is very difficult to find a good candidate. I mean there is no player that played soo good compared to others to say "He definitely deserves it", I was going to say Kanté but France failed so early and that will exclude Mbappé as well. Cristiano? Amazing season for a 36 yo boy like him but he didn't win nothing special this year, Messi won Copa America but Lewandowski had another great season he's just unlucky to be playing for Poland, good potential but they waste a lot. It will surely be interesting to watch Ballon d'Or award ceremony this year!

 

Foden was hurt so was unlikely to play.

 

Doesn't sound crazy at all, Italy did a similar thing as mentioned with Immobile which ultimately turned the game in Italy's favor. Agree with the Spain thoughts, I mentioned earlier in the thread we needed to do something similar with Sterling getting inbetween in the lines like Olmo was to take it to Italy. Our team doesn't have the midfield to do what Koke/Busquets etc can do which is a shame, so we wouldn't be able to take you on with possession play like the Spainish did.

 

Southgate should have used Sancho, Foden more in the tournament. Relied on certain players too much. With pens I also agree, whilst Henderson/Walker aren't penalty takers they will deal with the pressure of the situation much better than Sancho/Saka due to experience and being in many big games before. I understand Rashford coming on as he takes penalties often, but should have come on earlier to get warmed up. 

 

Kante would have been my choice too, as you said Euro's finish would have affected his position. Think Suarez might be considered for a high finish also with the success of Atletico's title, but don't think he will win. Certainly quite tough to call, but I'd still go with Messi!

[FreshFromThaDeli]

This thread has devolved into a shit show. Instead of congratulating the winners, people are hung up on berating the losing team and their supporters. Sour grapes indeed.

[Rozalia1]

2 hours ago, Agent_Renegade22 said:

Please dude don't even try, Italian fans are in no way comparable to English fans. You literally start riots and shit like that everywhere you go, in Russia for 2018 WC, in Porto for 2021 UCL Final, even at your own home at Wembley and we could go on for hours if we talk about previous competitions, after all England teams were banned from all UEFA competitions because of hooligans in 1985, weren't they? 

 

Everybody here in Italy was so tired of listening to your arrogance here and there, rather it was from current/ex players, TV stars or fans, and from what I've seen Italians weren't the only ones to think that, so...

I agree there are also disgraceful fans amongst Italians (and every other teams/nations), but trust me Italian fans are in no possible way arrogant, we literally thought we couldn't compete against teams like Belgium or France, and even when we proved to be a solid team absolutely nobody said openly that we were going to win, obviously we hoped for that in our hearts but we only celebrate when the game is over so what are you exactly talking about?

And nobody here in Italy asked for a bank holiday in case of victory lol

 

What I don't really like about English fans is that instead of condemning what you've done so far during these EUROs you all are just defending that saying "uh also others do that".

 

They were banned yes and the problem was tackled to a great degree. Something that has not happened elsewhere on the matter of racism considering how monkey chants/banana throwing continues to this day. Write it off as "saying others are worse" if you like. It'll help you avoid having to do something about your own fans and how they behave. 

 

Due to lies yes. "It's Coming Home" being defined as it was falsely for one. However let us not kid ourselves here. In mainland Europe the English are seen as arrogant automatically. It is a ethnic trait to people. Like how some people are seen as criminals, lazy, what have you. The English are seen as arrogant and think they're better than everyone else, and on the matter of football they're also violent yobbos too of course. Both stereotypes that go counter to each other at the same time. 

 

Well, it is anecdotal but I've met a lot of Italians and talked on the manner of football and they certainly do seem, lets say, confident. Not super recently though so maybe the world cup failure and all that tempered them a bit recently. I can give you that one as I'm not horribly concerned on the matter of people being confident. 

 

 

[GUDGER666]

Thread should be locked, pointless keeping it open now especially with the needles arguing. 

[dannyswfc9]

Agree @GUDGER666. @Agent_Renegade22 is right doing my nut in. 

 

Well done italy. England fans have shown their selves up especially this weekend but the players deserved alot more credit than they have recieved on here.

54 minutes ago, GUDGER666 said:

Thread should be locked, pointless keeping it open now especially with the needles arguing. 

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by dannyswfc9

[djb5f]

Looking forward to the World Cup thread lol.

 

Assuming Italy qualifies this time (ducks)  ?

[JAK-KRIEG]

World cup in England 2030 should be shall we say interesting. I don't even know how this can still be on the table. ( Yes I'm Danish)

Edited July 12, 2021 by JAK-KRIEG

[rockstarjazz]

1 hour ago, JAK-KRIEG said:

World cup in England 2030 should be shall we say interesting. I don't even know how this can still be on the table. ( Yes I'm Danish)

agreed. and i'm british.

the yobs at wembley, those defacing the marcus artwork, the racist comments which i saw on instagram and others, andrew lawrence...

go on the daily mail site, the article about mings standing up to priti patel, scroll down and see the comments.

it makes me wish i wasnt born british. english people act like savages sometimes - twice this week when out i witnessed road rage incidents escalating to violence, a teen waved his middle finger at me in the park for no reason whatsoever, chavvy mothers yelling at their kids to 'if you dont stop i'm gonna fkn smack you one', idiot disrespectful drivers....

americans stereotype british as polite, proper, tea drinking crumpet lovers - but the reality is so different. to me, most brits - they drink, smoke, swear, wear tattoos, start trouble, sleep around, have divorces, get fat. they have no morals.

my grandparents came from outside the UK and my mother used to tell us stories of racism growing up in the 70s. in my school classrooms were split between english kids on one side, minorities on the other. this country has a conservative voted government for a reason, and more people are right wing than left, hence the brexit vote.

i have even gone off british women now when it comes to finding a partner!

i anticipate the reply is 'not all brits are bad' - i agree, so lets say 80%+ reflect the above, from my experience. and i live outside London.

[Shinoda_2qx]

6 hours ago, rockstarjazz said:

looking at the leagues...

england's premier league is BIG

spain's la liga is big

german league is well known

serie A is getting better again

french ligue1 on its way up

in short, in europe, when it comes to champions league and club football, the big countries are england, spain, germany, italy and france. much of the winners come from these countries too - plus portugal.

 

looking at internationals...

italy last won a competition this year.

spain? 2012. less than 10 years ago.

germany? 2014. less than 10 years ago.

france? 2018. less than 10 years ago.

portugal? 2016. less than 10 years ago.

england? havent won anything since the near-middle of last century!!! over 5 DECADES and counting!

it just doesnt sit right. in terms of club football, england's a 'big country'. but when it comes to international football, we aren't winning like the other big countries are. why is that? is it because the premiership's too globalised? a 'club over country' mentality? no patience in growing english talent they seek a readymade player from abroad? an eagerness to be welcoming to foreign players over english/not wanting to be 'racist'? lol. 

I’ve always thought one major thing holding England back is our lack of willingness to go and engross ourselves in other leagues and cultures. We speak English, and we play English. We have no respect or knowledge of other footballing cultures. This is the first time in a long time that I can think of more than 1 foreign based player in the squad. Even then, how much did Sancho and Bellingham actually manage to play? At least Trippier managed some game time. We have a certain arrogance about us, that we really need to have a reality check over. 
 

Look at those successful nations, yes, I know that Italy have a large home based contingent, but over the decades, their players have gone abroad, learnt new things, and brought that back to the league, moved into coaching, and passed that on to the current generation. All of those nations, whilst winning tournaments, had players all over the continent, including the EPL. 
 

We need to broaden our horizons if we are to be successful. The other thing I would point to, is the manager. Italy’s had won the Premier League, our own competition. England’s had only been relegated from it. You can have the best players in the world, but you need the best coaches too. It hit me when we played Scotland, international football is supposed to be the best of the best, yet I’m watching a guy who got sacked from Middlesbrough against a guy who got sacked from WBA. I’d also highlight Roberto Martinez at Belgium as a prime example. Wigan grade manager (and I live in Wigan) running the “best” team in the world. No wonder their golden gen haven’t even made a final. 

[TomataEighty9]

England tasted karma  Cheaters get rekt.

[Rozalia1]

3 minutes ago, Shinoda_2qx said:

I’ve always thought one major thing holding England back is our lack of willingness to go and engross ourselves in other leagues and cultures. We speak English, and we play English. We have no respect or knowledge of other footballing cultures. This is the first time in a long time that I can think of more than 1 foreign based player in the squad. Even then, how much did Sancho and Bellingham actually manage to play? At least Trippier managed some game time. We have a certain arrogance about us, that we really need to have a reality check over. 
 

Look at those successful nations, yes, I know that Italy have a large home based contingent, but over the decades, their players have gone abroad, learnt new things, and brought that back to the league, moved into coaching, and passed that on to the current generation. All of those nations, whilst winning tournaments, had players all over the continent, including the EPL. 
 

We need to broaden our horizons if we are to be successful. The other thing I would point to, is the manager. Italy’s had won the Premier League, our own competition. England’s had only been relegated from it. You can have the best players in the world, but you need the best coaches too. It hit me when we played Scotland, international football is supposed to be the best of the best, yet I’m watching a guy who got sacked from Middlesbrough against a guy who got sacked from WBA. I’d also highlight Roberto Martinez at Belgium as a prime example. Wigan grade manager (and I live in Wigan) running the “best” team in the world. No wonder their golden gen haven’t even made a final. 

 

You basically wrecked your own point by mentioning Italy. England's problem isn't that their players largely play in England, that is a whatever for the most part and can be argued to be an advantage, not to mention that those players are playing against players that come from all across Europe anyway. For example, the last smaller side to win the Champions League, Porto, did it with a largely Portuguese team playing in Portugal.

 

The main issue is that England is not a brave side nor do they have great attacking talent. England has a culture as a negative team that aims to grind out wins by making the opponent lose, not actually trying to win the game themselves. Anyone who has watched England knew that after going 1-0 up that England were going to get scared and start letting Italy have most of the ball, hoping that Italy wouldn't be able to score. It is just what England does. The players that they showed off in this tournament, the penalty missing trio for example, are encouraging but they're far too young and incomplete players. Saka for example gives a great energy, he wins a lot of fouls, and is a positive player... but he has problems in his play and is wasteful. You can say the same for the rest of the trio and some other young ones. On the what passes for veterans on the team you have Kane and Sterling. Sterling I had someone I watched the game with joke was the most Italian player on the pitch which might be unfair but people have noticed what he does. The main issue with Sterling is he seems to have poor decision making which causes him at times to do utterly bizarre choices on what he is going to do (let me try to feint the whole opposing team in front of me in the box). Kane meanwhile has to drop back for the team to get any use out of him and he doesn't have the speed or stamina to be able to do that and also always be in the box/making runs to allow England to be a serious threat. 

 

Until England get braver and actually become "Lions" shall we say, it is going to be very hard to win anything. Granted, you totally can. Italy have won a lot playing negative. Portugal in 2016 won it with negative play. However overwhelmingly the winners are those that go out there to win the game and not simply have the opponent lose, if that makes sense. 

Rashford/Sancho/Saka are going to have a horrible time and to have people who define themselves as England fans do this stuff is absolutely terrible I know... but there is only one way to blow away the racists here. Improve and cut out the bad parts of their play, become more complete. I look forward to an England that is a serious threat with Rashford/Sancho/Saka in attack... but the odds of such a thing are likely lowered due to Southgate feeding them to the Wolves here. 

[Pirelli913]

It's been a month, but I'm gonna input my two cents here:

 

I've been a fan of Juventus and Italy since 1997. I've seen them win it all (2006, 2021) and them make it all the way to the final only to fall at the last hurdle (2000, 2012). My heart always feels like it's going to explode in my chest when I watch them play. I always gets so nervous. As someone that played left fullback growing up, I admire their defensive masters (Cannavaro, Chiellini, Costacurta, Maldini, Nesta, etc.) but I've never seen them play such beautiful football like at Euro 2020 either.

 

As for England, I've long since despised their arrogance and blatant disrespect for opponents as well as that stupid "it's coming home" chant. Until they stop singing that, no one will respect them as far as I'm concerned. And as long as they keep singing that, I hope it never comes home.

 

Euro 2020 was doubly sweet for me.

 

Seeing Italy win.

 

Seeing England lose.