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Toxic Troll in Messaging


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8 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

You aren’t - a lot of them are genuinely funny if you are fairly internet savvy and used to thar kind of thing. To be honest, the ‘best’ (worst) ones almost feel like a parody of internet culture, rather than a symptom of it, and can be hilarious - but there is a darker side to it.

 

My wife’s profiles have always had identifiably female handles, and trust me - the stuff that gets sent has a very different edge when the troll thinks they are talking to a woman as opposed to a guy.

When you couple that with the recipient being someone who didn’t grow up quite as immersed in internet culture to the extent that they came to just expect that sort of thing from time to time, the joke gets less funny pretty quick. 


Oh yes, I imagine it can be a very different situation for women. I’ve heard stories from friends about receiving creepy messages from trolls when they reveal themselves to be female in voice chat, and there’s undoubtedly some guys out there with fragile egos who would get especially salty if they got stomped by a female gamer in an online game. I wouldn’t blame women for taking angry and threatening messages more seriously either, as men can be very intimidating and you just never know who you are dealing with online.
 

A lot of women just simply don’t have experience wading through the toxic sludge of online gaming communities either. It’s a bit different for young guys who grew up playing Call of Duty or whatever and know not to take that sort of thing too seriously. There’s a multitude of reasons why I don’t like online multiplayer games very much, but one of the biggest by far is how toxic and nasty people can be to one another. It really spoils the experience. 

 

These days I usually find it amusing when someone targets me and that seems to really get under the skin of a troll who’s trying really hard to insult you or rile you up. When they begin to realize you’re mocking them and that they have become an object of your amusement they usually slink back into whatever corner they crawled from pretty quickly. I find the key to dealing with trolls and bullies in life is in simply taking away their power from them - if they cant provoke the exact response they are looking for, they soon get frustrated or bored and will leave of their own accord. 
 

I don’t like reporting people or snitching to Sony, so I usually deal with them myself and it’s been surprisingly effective. I don’t get too many repeat customers. ?

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33 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

My wife’s profiles have always had identifiably female handles, and trust me - the stuff that gets sent has a very different edge when the troll thinks they are talking to a woman as opposed to a guy.

When you couple that with the recipient being someone who didn’t grow up quite as immersed in internet culture to the extent that they came to just expect that sort of thing from time to time, the joke gets less funny pretty quick. 

 

I'll be honest i can't say i've really noticed it, but then again i don't really play many games that have big online communities.

I think the worst i've had where it would be more likely to be specifically targeted because i'm female, was i had one guy doing a shit load of heavy breathing down the microphone after i started talking....... I don't wanna know what he was doing, but i can have a guess  xD

 

That and sometimes you don't get taken seriously as a gamer at all. I once had a guy ask me how long it took my boyfriend to platinum El Shaddai for me, after i told him that i did it myself he didn't wanna hear from me after that. People gonna people.

 

I just expect it from any game with an online community in general these days, but most of the time it's the usual name calling that anyone would get regardless of gender.

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Just now, Ancestral_Spirit said:

 

I'll be honest i can't say i've really noticed it, but then again i don't really play many games that have big online communities.

I think the worst i've had where it would be more likely to be specifically targeted because i'm female, was i had one guy doing a shit load of heavy breathing down the microphone after i started talking....... I don't wanna know what he was doing, but i can have a guess  xD

 

That and sometimes you don't get taken seriously as a gamer at all. I once had a guy ask me how long it took my boyfriend to platinum El Shaddai for me, after i told him that i did it myself he didn't wanna hear from me after that. People gonna people.

 

I just expect it from any game with an online community in general these days, but most of the time it's the usual name calling that anyone would get regardless of gender.

 

I'm glad to hear that.

 

To be honest, I don't think my wife has ever used a mic in any online stuff, but I think maybe the difference is that her handles are very, very clearly female - the person playing against her or in a team wouldn't need to hear her voice or look at her profile beyond the name to know that, and it did seem to draw some absolutely appalling stuff - far worse than anything I've seen come my way.

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Just now, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I'm glad to hear that.

 

To be honest, I don't think my wife has ever used a mic in any online stuff, but I think maybe the difference is that her handles are very, very clearly female - the person playing against her or in a team wouldn't need to hear her voice or look at her profile beyond the name to know that, and it did seem to draw some absolutely appalling stuff - far worse than anything I've seen come my way.

Ugh that sucks to hear  :/

 

Well tell her not to let it get to her. If she enjoys gaming the same way i do, she shouldn't ever let anyone's hateful shit get in the way of her enjoyment of a game  :)  <3 

Anyone that does that is just a sad and lonely person, who just wants to either get a rise out of someone or make them feel bad to make themselves feel better, never let it get to you wife of DrBloodmoney  :P 

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5 minutes ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

Ugh that sucks to hear  :/

 

Well tell her not to let it get to her. If she enjoys gaming the same way i do, she shouldn't ever let anyone's hateful shit get in the way of her enjoyment of a game  :)  <3 

Anyone that does that is just a sad and lonely person, who just wants to either get a rise out of someone or make them feel bad to make themselves feel better, never let it get to you wife of DrBloodmoney  :P 

 

That was pretty much my advice - chuck it in the "men are awful and the world is a nightmare" folder, and continue kicking their ass in Rocket League ?

 

8 minutes ago, oxford_wolf007 said:

Problem is, that's a pretty serious, terrifying, and real possibility for women.

 

This is the issue. 

 

Trash talk is all well and good if both people are 'on-board', and I know the argument is "Well, it's just bluster, it's not a real threat" - but the problem is, with that kind of rape-threat stuff.... Women are at risk of that. That's just a fact.

So whether the threats are 'idle' or not, they are, at best, just reminding the recipient of an actual danger they do face in real life.

Whether they are 'idle' or not, they are still something that can, therefore, make someone feel less safe in their own home - and while engaging in their own hobbies - even simply by reminding them of a real danger.

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TBH trolls don't bother me online, if I'm in the mood, i'll engage (which they always come worse off), if not, I mute.

 

What I don't get is why people take everything to heart they hear, if you're bothered, Sony have provided the necessary tools to sort it - Block/Mute/Report.  Do people seriously think 'I'm gonna rape you' has any effect?  When they find out your name, address, country etc turn up on your doorstep then maybe, but other than that it's empty BS.

 

Shit talking is a pretty effective tactic in everything, gaming, sports etc some do it just to gain an edge on you in MP.

 

Then there's the ones who are just doing it out of boredom, funnily enough I've made a few friends out of it over the years. 

1 minute ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

This is the issue. 

 

Trash talk is all well and good if both people are 'on-board', and I know the argument is "Well, it's just bluster, it's not a real threat" - but the problem is, with that kind of rape-threat stuff.... Women are at risk of that. That's just a fact.

So whether the threats are 'idle' or not, they are, at best, just reminding the recipient of an actual danger they do face in real life.

Whether they are 'idle' or not, they are still something that can, therefore, make someone feel less safe in their own home - and while engaging in their own hobbies - even simply by reminding them of a real danger.

 

See this irks me slightly, if you go by the 'narrative' then it's disproportionately against women.  If you go by the actual stats then it's roughly 50/50 of all rapes occur against men and women.  Men just refuse to admit it more due to shame.

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4 minutes ago, Dark_Overlord said:

See this irks me slightly, if you go by the 'narrative' then it's disproportionately against women.  If you go by the actual stats then it's roughly 50/50 of all rapes occur against men and women.  Men just refuse to admit it more due to shame.

 


No, it’s 1 in 10 (in the US) with a roughly similar spread in most other 1st world countries.

 

(Source)

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence


Also, the rape threats (in terms of trolling in online games) are far more often directed at female gamers than male ones

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54 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

My wife’s profiles have always had identifiably female handles, and trust me - the stuff that gets sent has a very different edge when the troll thinks they are talking to a woman as opposed to a guy.

When you couple that with the recipient being someone who didn’t grow up quite as immersed in internet culture to the extent that they came to just expect that sort of thing from time to time, the joke gets less funny pretty quick. 

 

One of the many reasons I try to not make it explicitly obvious I'm female in online games. I remember I used to have a female character as my avatar on PSN (Ada Wong from Resident Evil), and I guess some guys would assume I must be female because of it. Got a few messages like "hey girl" after a match of CoD or something. I'd sometimes troll them with a "mate, I'm a guy" responses, though they'd usually never reply after that anyway.

 

Haven't ever used mic with randoms, so for the most part, I haven't experienced anything too bad, just a whole load of nasty and otherwise salty messages. But yeah, the shit some people will say and do once they know it's a woman they're talking to is insane.

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1 minute ago, DrBloodmoney said:


No, it’s 1 in 10 (in the US) with a roughly similar spread in most other 1st world countries.

 

(Source)

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence


Also, the rape threats (in terms of trolling in online games) are far more often directed at female gamers than male ones

 

I can tell you now, you are completely wrong.  It will take me a while to bring up the actual figures, but I can promise you it is closer to 50/50. 

 

For now i'll leave you with this

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/the-understudied-female-sexual-predator/503492/

 

Kinda biased when studies refuse to actually look into rapes from females

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2 hours ago, IntroPhenom said:

'Trolls' is an inadequate descriptor of these people, since some of them undoubtedly pride themselves on being labeled something with a menacing sounding name.  I say we switch over to 'Cupcakes'.  People who bully and threaten probably wouldn't hold their chin high on a moniker like 'Cupcake'.  

Fucking assholes

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2 minutes ago, SuperSmexy500 said:

 

One of the many reasons I try to not make it explicitly obvious I'm female in online games. I remember I used to have a female character as my avatar on PSN (Ada Wong from Resident Evil), and I guess some guys would assume I must be female because of it. Got a few messages like "hey girl" after a match of CoD or something. I'd sometimes troll them with a "mate, I'm a guy" responses, though they'd usually never reply after that anyway.

 

Haven't ever used mic with randoms, so for the most part, I haven't experienced anything too bad, just a whole load of nasty and otherwise salty messages. But yeah, the shit some people will say and do once they know it's a woman they're talking to is insane.

I don't think i make it explicitly obvious, but it's a case of if they work it out, i don't bother lying to them even for the funnies.

Mic with randoms is actually how i found my boyfriend in the first place  xD

 

While we're here have some more troll stories:

 

Warframe again. Was selling a frame that had been vaulted, so the price for it had gone up, and a kid offered me a way lower price and i told them no. 5mins or so later, someone else comes up to me and messages me a way higher price than what i was asking for. I said, are you sure? They responded with yes, showed me the platinum, then quit out of the trade to message me on PSN telling me i was a piece of shit for accepting the offer, and that i was trying to fleece kids from their money and platinum  xD 

 

Crysis 3. Me and my friends had joined up with a russian group to do the boosting for the online trophies. At first we all took it in turns and things were going well. Right up until the pint where we had some clean up trophies to do that were made WAAAAYYYY easier in a lobby of boosters. So they got theirs out of the way, and all quit at the same time. My and my friends asked what the hell was going on, and they responded with 'those trophies are easy to do without a boost group, don't be pussies'.

I told them they were the bigger pussies for quitting out so early and subsequently blocked about 13 people on the same day.

 

Dunno if this one would be considered a troll or not, but Dungeon Defenders. Someone wanted to join in with me and my partner to get the trophies. He started talking about films he seen recently, the most recent of which was one of the later Spiderman films. Me and my partner both warned him not to go into spoiler territory, as i'm the sort of person that absolutely despises spoilers of any kind. He continued to spoil 2 different films for me, and after warning him that this would be the last time i'd put up with it, proceeded to spoil the spiderman film. I quit out the game, blocked him, and he messaged my partner asking what he'd done wrong that upset me  xD 

 

I'm trying to find my blocklist so i can jog my memory a little  >.<

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11 minutes ago, Dark_Overlord said:

 

I can tell you now, you are completely wrong.  It will take me a while to bring up the actual figures, but I can promise you it is closer to 50/50. 

 

For now i'll leave you with this

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/the-understudied-female-sexual-predator/503492/

 

Kinda biased when studies refuse to actually look into rapes from females


Im not dismissing male victims here - and the stigma that causes underreporting is a serious problem - however - even the article you point to makes a specific point of addressing the fact that male victim’s would still be a minority overall - it simply isn’t 50-50 - even with under reporting accounted for.

 

However - that isn’t the point here.

Even if it were simply “the narrative” that made it “seem” like 20% of women have experienced sexual violence by the time they are 16, as opposed to 4% of men (UK stats this time - https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/about-sexual-violence/statistics-sexual-violence/)

 

What we’re talking about is the effect of troll messages sent in gaming - and the fact is, when the trolls think their victim is female, the prevalence of threats of sexual violence, as opposed to simply violence, goes through the roof.

 


 

Edited by DrBloodmoney
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1 minute ago, DrBloodmoney said:


Im not dismissing male victims here - and the stigma that causes underreporting is a serious problem - however - even the article you point to makes a specific point of addressing the fact that male victim’s would still be a minority overall - it simply isn’t 50-50 - even with under reporting accounted for.

 

However - that isn’t the point here.

Even if it were simply “the narrative” that made it “seem” like 20% of women have experienced sexual violence by the time they are 16, as opposed to 4% of men (UK stats this time - https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/about-sexual-violence/statistics-sexual-violence/)

 

What we’re talking about is the effect of troll messages sent in gaming - and the fact is, when the trolls think their victim is female, the prevalence of threats of sexual violence goes through the roof.

 


 

 

We'll agree to disagree then and keep this thread on topic :)

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8 minutes ago, djb5f said:

50/50 split is a ludicrous statement not remotely grounded in reality.  
 

Yes, it can happen to men/boys but not anywhere near even terms.  


The stats I have seen are that less than 1 in 10 rape victims are male (and in those situations the perpetrator is overwhelmingly most often male).

 

And those 'stats' are lying by omission, go into the fine print of those reports and look at what they don't include, it'll surprise you.

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15 minutes ago, djb5f said:

50/50 split is a ludicrous statement not remotely grounded in reality.  
 

Yes, it can happen to men/boys but not anywhere near even terms.  


The stats I have seen are that less than 1 in 10 rape victims are male (and in those situations the perpetrator is overwhelmingly most often male).

'The legal definition of rape is when a person intentionally penetrates another's vagina, anus or mouth with a penis, without the other person's consent.'

 

Unfortunately this definition does somewhat hinder rape reports, since it's difficult to prove if women rape men since they don't have penises to penetrate with. However women can coerce men or threaten men into the action, and at that point men don't have a leg to stand on legally since they weren't the one being penetrated.

 

I find it sad that that is the legal definition of rape, since it also hinders women on women cases as well. It also specifies with a penis, so if someone is raped with a foreign object, these also wouldn't make the cut for rape report data  :( 

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12 minutes ago, djb5f said:


Underreported or not (honestly, it is on all sides), 50/50 is not in the ballpark.  I haven’t read the Atlantic article you posted yet, but I consider them a good source and will check out later.  
 

But yes, there are a lot of men who prey on other men/boys too, and in some cases women on males.

 

The perpetrators are overwhelmingly male, and most males are heterosexuals so the math follows from there.
 

 

 

I will agree that men are the main perpetrators, but for the victims, it is a more even split.

 

Most studies will not include prison rape (which is a huge percentage), gay relationships and most estimates are 90% of all male rapes are not reported.  Taking that into consideration, you can see how skewed the 'stats' are.

 

Also as Ancestral pointed out, the legal definition automatically invalidates a lot of rape cases on a technicality :/

 

Also women are far more likely to make false reports (for a variety of reasons), but these are included in the 'stats'

Edited by Dark_Overlord
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17 minutes ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

'The legal definition of rape is when a person intentionally penetrates another's vagina, anus or mouth with a penis, without the other person's consent.'

 

Unfortunately this definition does somewhat hinder rape reports, since it's difficult to prove if women rape men since they don't have penises to penetrate with. However women can coerce men or threaten men into the action, and at that point men don't have a leg to stand on legally since they weren't the one being penetrated.

 

I find it sad that that is the legal definition of rape, since it also hinders women on women cases as well. It also specifies with a penis, so if someone is raped with a foreign object, these also wouldn't make the cut for rape report data  :( 

 

The only country I can think of that may define rape as something other than penetration is Canada, their definition of which is purposefully vague and doesn't really even have an offence for rape specifically, but sexual assault as a whole, which it generally defines as engaging in sexual activity with someone else without their consent. Most Western countries I know of use the legal definition you used, though sadly, there's some countries that don't even recognise male on male rape, it's strictly heterosexual male on female rape that's legally recognised.

 

Rape in general often goes unreported and/or unrecorded, due to victims not coming forward, lack of evidence, the cases not being taken seriously, etc. It's a sad situation all round,

Edited by SuperSmexy500
Autocorrect hates me
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My PSN blocked list is 20 times bigger than my friends list.

 

Since I started playing competitive multiplayer on a daily basis, I also started getting hate messages regularly.

I learned to just have fun reporting the idiots to PS Safety and blocking them.

 

But, eventually, I got tired of it and set incoming messages to friends only.

Still, there's always the odd troll that sends me a friend request just so he can drop a vicious message ?

 

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3 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I must admit - I would use that report button any time now, though I tend to have messages set to 'friends only' these days anyways.

 

Back in the heady days of online Call of Duty though  - which was, certainly, the time I received the most online abuse  (and, BTW, I'm shite at CoD online, so God knows what good players would receive 1f602.png), one of my absolute favourite things to do was to save all the troll and abuse messages, then report them all at once a couple of days before the next CoD game came out...

 

That way, any temp bans would hit right as they were trying to play their big new game... :giggle:

 

Yeah it seems like most people make use of the report feature, but personally I find it petty. I’ve always been a “snitches get stitches” type of person lol. I really don’t like the idea of some twat reporting me in our private messages just because I said something he didn’t like or because he wants revenge. For this very reason I try to be careful with the language I use when talking or bickering with randoms on PSN… you never know when one of these trolls is going to report something you said and try to get you banned.

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