Wavergray

Auto pop blacklist for fastest achiever?

39 posts in this topic

Challenge with a system like that is where you draw the cut off. Fast times on some games are definitely indicative of auto-pop, but in other games they’re a sign of speed run strats or an “EZPZ” game

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2 minutes ago, BGriff1986 said:

Challenge with a system like that is where you draw the cut off. Fast times on some games are definitely indicative of auto-pop, but in other games they’re a sign of speed run strats or an “EZPZ” game

 

I was just in the middle of basically typing this, you took the words right off my keyboard  xD

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I would like to have an auto-pop label on any games trophy list and called out again on the Fastest Achiever List that can auto-pop since it's almost always one of the first threads (just like the What Region Is This For?) that pop up as soon as new trophy lists appear.

 

While it wouldn't solve getting these people off the Fastest Achievers list, even though they were the fastest achiever following the developers implementations of auto-popping trophies, it would help clarify why some times are really short.

 

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3 minutes ago, BGriff1986 said:

Challenge with a system like that is where you draw the cut off. Fast times on some games are definitely indicative of auto-pop, but in other games they’re a sign of speed run strats or an “EZPZ” game

True, but that's why the blacklist time would only be like a few minutes. Most games take more than a few minutes to plat/100% even with a speedrun strat.

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I actually am in a weird spot here - as I both 100% agree that it is a good idea in principle, but am also an example of why it wouldn’t work - at least, using a set minimum time.

 

If you look at my Hitman 3 PS5 trophies, you’ll see why. I auto-popped them (it’s not possible not to auto-pop  that game if you want to upgrade to Ps5, due to all progress saving ‘server-side’) but, as you will notice, some failed to pop immediately, and, for some reason, waited until I had done a level before popping.

(Not sure why - I guess… reasons?)

 

As such, while the list is auto-popped, it likely wouldn’t be caught under any automatic system, and would still count as ‘real’ trophies - just done outrageously fast…

 

I guess it might work if the times were done different for specific games, but that’s quite a bit of manual work that would need doing.

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While such a feature would be super appreciated, an automated system wouldn't work, it would definitely need to be maintained manually, and I have a feeling the CRT wouldn't be keen on having that added to their workload. I still wouldn't call it completely unrealistic though.

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18 minutes ago, ThatMuttGuy said:

It would be nice if they implement something like that. I think the problem is then people would get one trophy and then wait the minimum time and then autopop to be in the leaderboards. 

 

That's why any game with autopops is just a lost cause at this point. 

Which would then create another problem, should that be allowed? They started the game and earned one trophy, then loaded their old save to autopop the rest. For other games that's not allowed, but autopopping is supposed to be allowed for games that have cross-save.

 

I know it's annoying that autopops make the fastest achiever boards a bit pointless on a lot of games, but there's just too many issues with implementing something to limit it.

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3 minutes ago, ExHaseo said:

Which would then create another problem, should that be allowed? They started the game and earned one trophy, then loaded their old save to autopop the rest. For other games that's not allowed, but autopopping is supposed to be allowed for games that have cross-save.

 

I know it's annoying that autopops make the fastest achiever boards a bit pointless on a lot of games, but there's just too many issues with implementing something to limit it.

 

The only thing I could thing of would to be removing anyone with the PS5 version off the fastest achievers list if they also have the PS4 version on the list. That eliminates the need to manually look at the list or not. I'd be ok with this approach, but I know a lot of people wouldn't. I think it would be fair, and you could actually see how long the game should take, without the leaderboards showing thousands of 1 second plats lol. 

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4 minutes ago, ExHaseo said:

Which would then create another problem, should that be allowed? They started the game and earned one trophy, then loaded their old save to autopop the rest. For other games that's not allowed, but autopopping is supposed to be allowed for games that have cross-save.

 

I know it's annoying that autopops make the fastest achiever boards a bit pointless on a lot of games, but there's just too many issues with implementing something to limit it.

 

I don't see the dilemma, the players are not getting punished, but clearly they aren't the fastest if there is any sign of autopop at any point in their list.

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Just now, ThatMuttGuy said:

 

The only thing I could thing of would to be removing anyone with the PS5 version off the fastest achievers list if they also have the PS4 version on the list. That eliminates the need to manually look at the list or not. I'd be ok with this approach, but I know a lot of people wouldn't. I think it would be fair, and you could actually see how long the game should take, without the leaderboards showing thousands of 1 second plats lol. 

But then you have the problem of someone just having the PS4 version on their list, but only completing the PS5 version. They're now locked out of the PS5 leaderboards, even though that's the version they completed. All because maybe they bought a PS5 while they were playing the game, or dropped the game and came back to it once a PS5 version was released.

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8 minutes ago, ExHaseo said:

Which would then create another problem, should that be allowed? They started the game and earned one trophy, then loaded their old save to autopop the rest. For other games that's not allowed, but autopopping is supposed to be allowed for games that have cross-save.

 

I know it's annoying that autopops make the fastest achiever boards a bit pointless on a lot of games, but there's just too many issues with implementing something to limit it.

But this issue is only an issue if the assumption is made that people are trying to get on the fastest achiever list with a auto pop.

Most people just want the plat and end up on the fastest achiever because of the auto pop.

 

With a blacklist of a few minutes most of the auto pops would be off the list with no issue to people who just want their plat/100%.

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5 minutes ago, Wavergray said:

But this issue is only an issue if the assumption is made that people are trying to get on the fastest achiever list with a auto pop.

Most people just want the plat and end up on the fastest achiever because of the auto pop.

 

With a blacklist of a few minutes most of the auto pops would be off the list with no issue to people who just want their plat/100%.

There are tons of people who try to get on the fastest achiever boards, and they'll do everything they can to get the shortest time possible. Just like speedrunners. Assuming that no one would use the absolute easiest tool to get on the fastest achievers makes no sense. This is a community that will buy the same game multiple times, even paying more to import it, just to get an extra plat through an autopop. There will 100% be people getting onto the leaderboards with autopop, no matter what kinds of limitations are in place.

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2 minutes ago, ExHaseo said:

There are tons of people who try to get on the fastest achiever boards, and they'll do everything they can to get the shortest time possible. Just like speedrunners. Assuming that no one would use the absolute easiest tool to get on the fastest achievers makes no sense. This is a community that will buy the same game multiple times, even paying more to import it, just to get an extra plat through an autopop. There will 100% be people getting onto the leaderboards with autopop, no matter what kinds of limitations are in place.

I see you are the type were if a solution isn't perfect you would rather have no solution at all. To the point were you are saying a small group of people's potential actions are a good enough reason not to even try.

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I've seen thread topics like this before, but it hasn't resulted in any changes.

 

I think most are in agreement that autopopped platinums don't belong in the fastest achiever section. It defeats the purpose of those that like speed running games (not I). And it doesn't look like the PS4 and 5 stacks are going to stop for the rest of year. I'm also aware that it's possible people earn a trophy then use a save file to auto pop the rest to. While cross- saving is fair game for earning, I think the fastest achiever boards are kind of useless as they are.

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1 minute ago, Wavergray said:

I see you are the type were if a solution isn't perfect you would rather have no solution at all. To the point were you are saying a small group of people's potential actions are a good enough reason not to even try.

It's more about risk vs reward and overall time investment. It's not like someone just snaps their fingers and suddenly things get changed and we can just try it out. So, let's break it down.

 

The reward here is that potentially some people can get onto the fastest achiever boards for some games that have autopop trophies. Which would be cool to see.

 

The risk is that all of the work will end up being pointless, cause significantly more controversy, and create more work for the CRT. All after spending the time to implement the new system, which could end up being complicated and taking weeks, or longer, of work. Which they would be doing completely for free.

 

It's not about a solution needing to be perfect, the potential pro simply doesn't outweigh all the potential cons.

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1 hour ago, ThatMuttGuy said:

It would be nice if they implement something like that. I think the problem is then people would get one trophy and then wait the minimum time and then autopop to be in the leaderboards. 

 

That's why any game with autopops is just a lost cause at this point. 

Do people really care enough to do this? 

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23 minutes ago, ONUOsFan said:

Do people really care enough to do this? 

I wouldn't put it past people. Leaderboard chasing has become more and more a problem in this community as I see it, so why wouldn't people just game the proposed system to still make it to the top

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If a game can be autopopped, it can be autopopped. It is what it is, and I'm ok with seeing a bunch of 1 second plat times for a game with that feature. Plenty of other games that don't have autopopped trophies that we can focus on. I would be ok with adding some kind of indicator that tells us that autopops are possible for a particular game/version so we all know such a thing is possible.

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I don’t care about the fastest achievers list personally but I understand the dilemma.

 

I find Auto-pops annoying in that they impact the rarity levels of trophies.  PS5 trophies are so much more common than the exact same PS4 trophies because so many aren’t bothering to play the game.

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I am all for this but it will be nearly possible to implement it due to some aformentioned reasons.

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39 minutes ago, ExHaseo said:

It's more about risk vs reward and overall time investment. It's not like someone just snaps their fingers and suddenly things get changed and we can just try it out. So, let's break it down.

 

The reward here is that potentially some people can get onto the fastest achiever boards for some games that have autopop trophies. Which would be cool to see.

 

The risk is that all of the work will end up being pointless, cause significantly more controversy, and create more work for the CRT. All after spending the time to implement the new system, which could end up being complicated and taking weeks, or longer, of work. Which they would be doing completely for free.

 

It's not about a solution needing to be perfect, the potential pro simply doesn't outweigh all the potential cons.

All of that is under the assumption that this blacklist is trying to keep the fastest achiever list "pure" or whatever.

All it is for is keeping straight auto pops off the list. Everything else you keep bringing up is out of the scope of a blacklist.

 

Every solution doesn't have to be all encompassing, but can act as steps towards fixing issues.

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top 50 fastest times leaderboard is pointless in general anyway because it only takes 1 DLC trophy to release to remove your fastest time from the top 50 anyway.

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It is somewhat irritating, but the fault lies more with Sony for allowing autopopping of trophies via save transfers.  Sony doesn't give any thought to statistics, valuation or competitiveness with regard to trophies.  The true time of anyone who uses autopop is the original game list they got the save from but with the way the fastest time is calculated.. it is not compatible with using save transfers to instantly get every trophy.  Most PS5 lists are ruined with regard to the fastest board right now due to save transfers, but I am hoping that this will stop being so prevalent within the next year or so.

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