Sabbath - Kinda Bloody Sabbath!

[det_gittes]

On 18.09.2021 at 2:50 PM, KindaSabbath said:

Trials Fusion scores a perfect 5/5 from me.

Great review, very comprehensive! I feel weirdly happy when I see that others have enjoyed the game as much as I did. I would just add that this game also features Track Central, which for me is the reason why I sank hundreds upon hundreds of hours into it. Thousands of custom-made tracks made by community members, especially the more difficult ones, allow players to gradually master the techniques which are never required in the career part of the game, which often amounts to feeling like you're playing a completely different game. Learning how to control the backwheel, the frontwheel, how to switch, how to do stationaries, how to climb vertical walls etc. offers an insane feeling of reward and satisfaction. To sum up, a full completion of the career mode is in itself one hell of a ride and reason enough for giving this game a top score, but on top of that there's like a whole new dimension to the game hiding behind the Track Central button. This is what makes it 11/10 in my book

 

As for Bloodborne, which has been mentioned, I won't lie when I say that I loved every second of it. Never have I immersed myself so much in a game world. It was terrifying, intriguing, beautiful and irresitably compelling. Watching VaatiVidya's videos explaining the lore behind Bloodborne made it even more awesome.

[KindaSabbath]

On 18/09/2021 at 6:55 PM, Destructor-8 said:

I really like the enjoyment rating you came up with as I think it pretty much explains what you thought of it in just a couple of words lol. That's a really great review there & I'm glad you mentioned the intro music as that is one of the best parts of the game

 

? Thanks bud. Yeah, two words is all I need in that section. I'll try and keep that a mainstay. As for the intro music. It's just the perfect fit for the game! The shouty vocals in the chorus are that of the composer himself. The female soprano vocals are not real, either, they're synthesized. Just a cool little bit of info.

 

On 18/09/2021 at 6:55 PM, Destructor-8 said:

I'm glad I'll be able to use everyone's ghost for that too so I'm just going to have to improve my skill a lot before I get there

 

It's so cool, it feels like you're playing with your friends. Bro, I'm calling it now; the moment you sit down and prioritise Fusion - you will destroy it. 

 

On 18/09/2021 at 9:08 PM, rjkclarke said:

Spectacular review man! It's been a really enjoyable experience reading your progress and watching you absolutely slay this game and now to finally having those bad boys under your belt (game and review)....... Looking Forward to what's to come in the future.

 

Appreciate that mate! I'm proud of getting them both done. Taking my first real crack at a review was also a tough but rewarding experience. There's lots of room for improvement but had to start some where.

 

On 18/09/2021 at 9:08 PM, rjkclarke said:

By the way I don't agree with that comment further up about Yakuza not being an RPG - it might not be listed as one, but it's heart and soul is an RPG/Brawler it has about as much in common with Batman Arkham Asylum as a Pigeon does with a Donkey, and, well - the fact  that they are both games you can hit people in I suppose. That's about it. All the other JRPG advice though I'd say is pretty sound ?

 

 

I was a little confused by that comparison but I put it down to my lack of knowledge in this area. Whatever category Yakuza falls into, I know it looks awesome and that's really all that matters. I'm excited to play it. I'll get a much better idea about the game anyways when you've written what you have to say about it ?

 

On 18/09/2021 at 9:08 PM, rjkclarke said:

Funny you bring up Tales of Arise actually - because that might be a good first JRPG. One of my friends got the platinum in it a couple of days ago, and by Tales of' standards it's actually fairly short, from what he said it's fairly unobtuse too. So it's pretty good for people that haven't played an entry in that series before.

 

Yeah, it looks fire. I'm itching for an excuse to play a next gen game, too. This could be a shout y'know. 

 

3 hours ago, Arcesius said:

Man, what a fantastic review that was! I think what makes it really great is that it both focuses on the game itself, but at the same time you show every bit of love you have towards all of those aspects that make this game one of the best I've played myself as well! That, and it is full of encouragement for other people to try it out  As should be! 

 

Appreciate that bro! It sounds like it's come across exactly as intended. I wanted to share my passion for the game, whilst being objective enough to rate it properly. I also tried to make it enjoyable for those who have already beat it, but give some encouragement to those who would maybe like to try it.

 

3 hours ago, Arcesius said:

Yes! Man, not only did you have a fantastic time, you found one of your favorite games and created a new top gaming moment  This is really cool to read! Really awesome stuff! It has been really fun to follow your progress and talk so much about this game.. though I'm sure it will continue to be the case with whatever you tackle next! 

 

I've just had an insane amount of fun, playing the game, sharing it with all of you guys and documenting my journey all the way through! Being on the newer side to the forums and such - it's been a very new but very enjoyable experience. I think I mentioned somewhere around here recently - at 32 years old, many of my friends have stopped gaming. So to find a new all time favourite game AND be able to share that experience with many other enthusiastic gamers ( metalheads, too ?) - so fucking awesome!

 

3 hours ago, Arcesius said:

Persona 5

I really disliked this game. It was the first Persona game I played, and I didn't know what I was getting myself into. I really enjoy RPGs though, and this game is all people could talk about for a while. It scored 10s left and right, and so I tried it. 

And I hated it. Not for the plot (which was meh), or the RPG elements (which are pretty basic... that's really not the focus of the game...), but because of the time-gated mechanic and what you do in the time that is available to you. 

 

You see, each day (you play like an in-game year or so... a bit more I believe) has three slots: Morning, Afternoon and Evening. Some of those slots are taken up by story-progressing events, and you can do ONE SINGLE ACTION at each of the free slots. So if you want to go buy weapons... that eats up a slot. You want to go to the doctor and see if you can get her to go home with you? A slot is used up. You want to go to the arcade? Well tough luck, it's Sunday. 

 

I also didn't enjoy that the game puts so much emphasis on "socializing". You need to go with your friends to places, hang out with them to improve your bond, go to a café with your maid, etc... I just didn't care for all of that stuff. 

 

Thanks for the heads up. I think I'll have to look into that a bit more then. I'm not sure if I like the lack of freedom. I mean, I'm terrible for skipping almost everything you can possibly skip in games so I can get back to what I want to be doing. Maybe that one just isn't a good fit for me. I'll still do more research on it though.

 

3 hours ago, Arcesius said:

Souls-games

I really am glad to hear that when you hear people talk about these games, they talk about how good they are and not how hard. The thing is, they really aren't tough in the same sense that games like Trackmania Turbo or Trials Fusion are hard. All FromSoft games are - in my very personal opinion - all between 4-6/10, not more. 

 

@Copanele did one hell of a job with his posts, and I agree with pretty much everything. I guess if you compare these games with their closest relatives (I'm thinking Onimusha, God of War, DmC, etc...), they indeed ask more of the player than any of those games. They are also way more cryptic. So much so that there exist YT channels focusing on nothing but the lore and hidden secrets in these games. And the depth is INCREDIBLE. It's just super difficult to get on your own (though definitely worth watching someone elses work on digging all of that stuff up). 

 

In any case... These games are not only mechanically incredible, the atmosphere is pretty much unparalleled. My recommendation? If you don't see yourself playing through many soulslikes but still want to try out the genre.. Play Bloodborne. I can say pretty confidently that you won't regret it a single bit  

 

I have quite a lot of interest in these games. From what I've seen, they're definitely my flavour. I like games that are heavy in atmosphere but require you to do a bit of digging to figure out what's going on. I like to explore and I'm gameplay through and through. So there is tonnes of appeal here for me. I find with more linear games I switch off because I'm not doing things on my terms, if that makes sense?

 

I will definitely play Bloodborne so I'm glad you brought it up. The only reason I haven't already is because I'm wondering whether it will get an upgrade for PS5? So I just don't know if its worth waiting... 

 

For my first game in this genre, what would you say out of Bloodborne, Sekiro and Demons Souls (if we put Bloodborne on the back-burner hoping for 60fps) - since as you've played all of them?

 

@Copanele feel free to drop in again on this one if you fancy it dude.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by KindaSabbath

[KindaSabbath]

1 hour ago, det_gittes said:

Great review, very comprehensive! I feel weirdly happy when I see that others have enjoyed the game as much as I did

 

Thank you buddy! Means a lot!

 

1 hour ago, det_gittes said:

I would just add that this game also features Track Central, which for me is the reason why I sank hundreds upon hundreds of hours into it. Thousands of custom-made tracks made by community members, especially the more difficult ones, allow players to gradually master the techniques which are never required in the career part of the game, which often amounts to feeling like you're playing a completely different game. Learning how to control the backwheel, the frontwheel, how to switch, how to do stationaries, how to climb vertical walls etc. offers an insane feeling of reward and satisfaction. To sum up, a full completion of the career mode is in itself one hell of a ride and reason enough for giving this game a top score, but on top of that there's like a whole new dimension to the game hiding behind the Track Central button. This is what makes it 11/10 in my book

 

Oh man do I feel like an idiot for not talking about Track Central... everything you just said is spot on. I haven't experienced the full scope of Track Central but what I have has been very enjoyable. Since as I'll still be playing both Trials games anyway, maybe I can write something up for Track Central specifically - once I've put more hours into it.

 

1 hour ago, det_gittes said:

As for Bloodborne, which has been mentioned, I won't lie when I say that I loved every second of it. Never have I immersed myself so much in a game world. It was terrifying, intriguing, beautiful and irresitably compelling. Watching VaatiVidya's videos explaining the lore behind Bloodborne made it even more awesome.

 

That's two heavy recommendations for Bloodborne. It's definitely creeping up the list. Glad you had such a good time with it bro!

Edited September 19, 2021 by KindaSabbath

[DrunkenEngineer]

27 minutes ago, KindaSabbath said:

For my first game in this genre, what would you say out of Bloodborne, Sekiro and Demons Souls (if we put Bloodborne on the back-burner hoping for 60fps) - since as you've played all of them?

 

I'll chime in with my unsolicited opinion - I would play the Soulsborne games in release order, which of the three goes Demon's Souls -> Bloodborne -> Sekiro.  Reason being is you'll experience the growth and evolution of FromSoft as the rest of us did.

 

I'd be incredibly surprised if Bloodborne receives any sort of PS5 support - folks have been clamoring for SOME kind of upgrade since the PS4 Pro, and every other game has received an update except for this one.  It smells as if a PS5 remaster is in the works, but I wouldn't let that stop you from playing it when it comes up next in your queue.  It's fantastic, and my first platinum that I would love to play again fresh.

[Copanele]

57 minutes ago, KindaSabbath said:

I have quite a lot of interest in these games. From what I've seen, they're definitely my flavour. I like games that are heavy in atmosphere but require you to do a bit of digging to figure out what's going on. I like to explore and I'm gameplay through and through. So there is tonnes of appeal here for me. I find with more linear games I switch off because I'm not doing things on my terms, if that makes sense?

 

I will definitely play Bloodborne so I'm glad you brought it up. The only reason I haven't already is because I'm wondering whether it will get an upgrade for PS5? So I just don't know if its worth waiting... 

 

For my first game in this genre, what would you say out of Bloodborne, Sekiro and Demons Souls (if we put Bloodborne on the back-burner hoping for 60fps) - since as you've played all of them?

 

@Copanele feel free to drop in again on this one if you fancy it dude.

 

 

Sooo, if you want to go for PS5 games, you can't go wrong with Demon's Souls. You will experience the "roots" of the Souls series minus the ps3 clunkiness, since the PS5 remake is a marvel.

Otherwise, 100% go for Bloodborne. That's a great game that will keep you on your toes from start to finish. If you don't count PS5, I'd say go directly for Bloodborne and don't look back.

 

Leave Sekiro for last, or approach it differently. Despite being done by Fromsoft, it's not really a "textbook" Soulsborne.

[totakos1]

Bloodborne and Sekiro are my personal  favorite from souls games and I can’t recommend them enough I trully believe you going to love them, and all 3 dark souls, my advice play it without a guide that’s the beauty, story, boss fights, getting lost and wondering where that path leads you or is it a collectible down there ( many times ends up the wrong way lol  ) amazing journey awaits you!

[Arcesius]

On 9/19/2021 at 11:27 PM, KindaSabbath said:

For my first game in this genre, what would you say out of Bloodborne, Sekiro and Demons Souls (if we put Bloodborne on the back-burner hoping for 60fps) - since as you've played all of them?

 

Nah man, don't wait. Play Bloodborne!. Demon's Souls is a good game, but I doubt that it will pack and suck you into the genre the same way Bloodborne would. The remaster runs nicely, but it is definitely not the best designed game in the franchise and has plenty of shit bosses. 

 

The only "disadvantage" of starting with Bloodborne is that you will have played the best entry first ? But it also has many advantages. If you start with that one, it will teach you how to play without shields, and you will take that into the other games as well, making them much more fun (this is a very subjective opinion, of course). Dark Souls gives you a Shield right at the start, and in my opinion makes a mistake in doing so. It teaches you to approach combat carefully and slowly. 

 

Fuck that. Learn how to approach combat in a fun way by playing Bloodborne first. You'll have a great time with the other entries as well if you approach them similarly. At least that's my experience with the genre!  

 

Sekiro isn't a souls game. It's an action-rhythm game, and should be played very differently than a souls game or you are in for a bad time  

[Copanele]

9 minutes ago, Arcesius said:

 

Nah man, don't wait. Play Bloodborne!. Demon's Souls is a good game, but I doubt that it will pack and suck you into the genre the same way Bloodborne would. The remaster runs nicely, but it is definitely not the best designed game in the franchise and has plenty of shit bosses. 

 

The only "disadvantage" of starting with Bloodborne is that you will have played the best entry first  But it also has many advantages. If you start with that one, it will teach you how to play without shields, and you will take that into the other games as well, making them much more fun (this is a very subjective opinion, of course). Dark Souls gives you a Shield right at the start, and in my opinion makes a mistake in doing so. It teaches you to approach combat carefully and slowly. 

 

Fuck that. Learn how to approach combat in a fun way by playing Bloodborne first. You'll have a great time with the other entries as well if you approach them similarly. At least that's my experience with the genre!  

 

Sekiro isn't a souls game. It's an action-rhythm game, and should be played very differently than a souls game or you are in for a bad time  

One small mention/correction, if I may  ? if your first interaction with a Fromsoft game is Dark Souls, you kinda need a shield in the beginning just to understand the basic core mechanics, since the game is centered around it (unless you play RPGs on a higher difficulty setting).

 

But yes if you start with Bloodborne you will be wahoo-ing around enemies like a mad man in Dark Souls too, since Bloodborne is more about getting in the enemy's face and it's way faster paced! If you start with Bloodborne, the only shield you will end up using in Dark Souls will be the Grass Crest Shield, just to keep it on your back and regen your stamina faster while you 2hand Claymore the world

 

Good point about Sekiro from @Arcesius. Kinda shows why I haven't enjoyed that game as much But you also have unlimited stamina there so take that Rhythm game!!

 

Also usually "the best Fromsoft title is the one you play it first". Curious to see if it will apply to you as well @KindaSabbath

Edited September 21, 2021 by Copanele

[DrBloodmoney]

@Copanele @Arcesius

 

Not to muddy the waters here (sorry @KindaSabbath!) but just a thought - what do you guys think of Salt and Sanctuary as a decent "first-step" souls-like?

 

It occurred to me because it is the closest thing to an on-ramp, given that it is 2D, and so has the familiarity of a platformer as a baseline, but could serve as a good introduction to the core principles of souls games - corpse runs, tough bosses, estus healing mechanics, esoteric and minimalistic lore etc?

[Copanele]

Just now, DrBloodmoney said:

@Copanele @Arcesius

 

Not to muddy the waters here (sorry @KindaSabbath!) but just a thought - what do you guys think of Salt and Sanctuary as a decent "first-step" souls-like?

 

It occurred to me because it is the closest thing to an on-ramp, given that it is 2D, and so has the familiarity of a platformer as a baseline, but could serve as a good introduction to the core principles of souls games - corpse runs, tough bosses, estus healing mechanics, esoteric and minimalistic lore etc?

Honestly I have nothing against that statement ? in my opinion Salt & Sanctuary is the game who replicated the "Souls-like" FEELING best, probably this is why I enjoy that game so much.

But if you wish to go with wthe true Souls experience, it's best to start with a Fromsoft title. Salt&Sanctuary's only downside in that regard is that it's 2D so you can't fully experience the dread and grotesque that only Dark Souls/Bloodborne can offer.

 

But yeah if you want a fantastic game, go with S&S. I should stack that game just to give the devs more money and rush out the development of Salt & Sacrifice.

[Arcesius]

13 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Not to muddy the waters here (sorry @KindaSabbath!) but just a thought - what do you guys think of Salt and Sanctuary as a decent "first-step" souls-like?

 

It occurred to me because it is the closest thing to an on-ramp, given that it is 2D, and so has the familiarity of a platformer as a baseline, but could serve as a good introduction to the core principles of souls games - corpse runs, tough bosses, estus healing mechanics, esoteric and minimalistic lore etc?

 

9 minutes ago, Copanele said:

Honestly I have nothing against that statement in my opinion Salt & Sanctuary is the game who replicated the "Souls-like" FEELING best, probably this is why I enjoy that game so much.

But if you wish to go with wthe true Souls experience, it's best to start with a Fromsoft title.

 

 

Yeah I agree with @Copanele for sure! It is a fantastic game, but I think I enjoyed it so much BECAUSE it reminded me of Dark Souls. Had I played it first.. Not sure, I think the skill-tree would have scared me off ?

 

I also think that starting with a FromSoft game is the way to go. It's also the reason I haven't mentioned Nioh yet ?

 

[KindaSabbath]

On 19/09/2021 at 10:59 PM, DrunkenEngineer said:

I'll chime in with my unsolicited opinion - I would play the Soulsborne games in release order, which of the three goes Demon's Souls -> Bloodborne -> Sekiro.  Reason being is you'll experience the growth and evolution of FromSoft as the rest of us did.

 

Makes sense! I have a horrible habit of doing things in a far from logical order though ? - may end up being the case here...Stay tuned

 

On 19/09/2021 at 10:59 PM, DrunkenEngineer said:

I'd be incredibly surprised if Bloodborne receives any sort of PS5 support - folks have been clamoring for SOME kind of upgrade since the PS4 Pro, and every other game has received an update except for this one.  It smells as if a PS5 remaster is in the works

 

Yeah I should just forget about potential PS5 upgrades to be honest. I was speaking to my friend Jak who loves FromSoft, and in his words "why would you wait for a PS5 upgrade when you mostly play games that look like mobile games ?) - I mean he's totally wrong but I get his point.

 

On 20/09/2021 at 2:02 AM, totakos1 said:

Bloodborne and Sekiro are my personal  favorite from souls games and I can’t recommend them enough I trully believe you going to love them

 

Thanks for dropping in! Yeah, the more I look into them, the more I'm getting excited to play them.

 

2 hours ago, Arcesius said:

Nah man, don't wait. Play Bloodborne!. Demon's Souls is a good game, but I doubt that it will pack and suck you into the genre the same way Bloodborne would. The remaster runs nicely, but it is definitely not the best designed game in the franchise and has plenty of shit bosses. 

 

I don't think I'll be waiting after giving it some more thought! Now it's just a question of what order to play them in. It's a shame to hear that Demon's Souls is not quite as good. Understandable though with it being one of the first of its kind. I'm still excited to get to it at some point, though.

 

2 hours ago, Arcesius said:

The only "disadvantage" of starting with Bloodborne is that you will have played the best entry first 

 

Kinda like if I had played Fusion before Rising? Interesting point. Noted.

 

2 hours ago, Arcesius said:

Fuck that. Learn how to approach combat in a fun way by playing Bloodborne first.

 

Duuude, that's the only way! I don't imagine I will go for a defensive playstyle no matter which game I play first ?

 

2 hours ago, Arcesius said:

Sekiro isn't a souls game. It's an action-rhythm game, and should be played very differently than a souls game or you are in for a bad time

 

That comment alone has made me want to play Sekiro so fucking much lol. From a little reading into the games, it seems that Sekiro is regarded as the most challenging? That is a big plus for me, I love a bit of that ? - Although, it could just be down to many veterans of Fromsofts work, playing it wrong at first? I dunno ?‍♂️

 

2 hours ago, Copanele said:

But yes if you start with Bloodborne you will be wahoo-ing around enemies like a mad man in Dark Souls too, since Bloodborne is more about getting in the enemy's face and it's way faster paced! If you start with Bloodborne, the only shield you will end up using in Dark Souls will be the Grass Crest Shield, just to keep it on your back and regen your stamina faster while you 2hand Claymore the world

 

Well that just sounds awesome. Exactly how I'd want to play!

 

2 hours ago, Copanele said:

Also usually "the best Fromsoft title is the one you play it first". Curious to see if it will apply to you as well @KindaSabbath

 

I will report back, once I have a few under my belt.

 

1 hour ago, DrBloodmoney said:

It occurred to me because it is the closest thing to an on-ramp, given that it is 2D, and so has the familiarity of a platformer as a baseline, but could serve as a good introduction to the core principles of souls games - corpse runs, tough bosses, estus healing mechanics, esoteric and minimalistic lore

 

Noted. Sounds really good. I'll be sure to play it even if it's after the Fromsoft titles. Appreciate the recommendation Doc.

 

1 hour ago, Arcesius said:

I also think that starting with a FromSoft game is the way to go. It's also the reason I haven't mentioned Nioh yet 

 

Nioh looks fucking incredible! But yes, I'll probably start with a FromSoft game as my first venture into the genre.

 

On 19/09/2021 at 11:28 PM, Copanele said:

Leave Sekiro for last, or approach it differently. Despite being done by Fromsoft, it's not really a "textbook" Soulsborne.

 

OK, so what if I actually took on Sekiro first - hear me out ? - You guys all know what you're talking about so this really is more of a question. If it's not a text book Soulborne and it is indeed more of an action-rhythm game (which sounds incredible) would it not make sense to play it first? Then move into the more traditional Soulsborne games and learn the ins and outs of how they play? 

 

So for exmple: Sekiro, Bloodborne, Demon's Souls then Dark Souls. Thoughts?

Edited September 21, 2021 by KindaSabbath

[DrBloodmoney]

12 minutes ago, KindaSabbath said:

OK, so what if I actually took on Sekiro first - hear me out - You guys all know what you're talking about so this really is more of a question. If it's not a text book Soulborne and it is indeed more of an action-rhythm game (which sounds incredible) would it not make sense to play it first? Then move into the more traditional Soulsborne games and learn the ins and outs of how they play? 

 

So for exmple: Sekiro, Bloodborne, Demon's Souls then Dark Souls. Thoughts?

 

Personally, I think Sekiro is different enough from traditional souls games that it could be played first (the common understanding is that Sekiro was actually crafted to be a Tenchu game, rather than a Souls-like, and was only changed at the 11th hour, bringing it more in line with Souls late in the process.

(FROM does actually own the Tenchu IP, having bought it from Activision back in the early 2000s) 

 

However, there are two things I would say require caution with that approach.

 

1.  some of the souls staples that Sekiro does have are really not particulalry well explained for a souls-neophyte. They definitely created Sekiro to be approached by people at least somewhat familiar with the structure and tempo of previous souls games, so while it is quite an outlier, I think there is an expectation of familiarity baked into it.

 

2. Sekiro is much more precise, and much more difficult. It is still the Souls-style difficulty - one that is overcome primarily through practice and determination, so I have no doubt that you would conquer it, (given your patience and endurance training in games like Trials!) - however, doing so first may have an unintended side-effect... it may make all the subsequent games feel tame in difficulty by comparison.

Because Sekiro does not allow any real customisation of build, or real upgrading, it works on requiring a level of combat finesse that is much more punishing and has a much higher bar of mastery than the other games - with far less room for error. While the others are not playing in the exact same wheelhouse, that mastery would absolutely carry over to the others, and could end up lessening the impact of the other games, simply by comparison.

Edited September 21, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[Don_carlito94]

Late congrats on completing Trials Fusion, what a nice achievement! 
 

Since you’ve been talking about Soulsborne and Sekiro, my best advice would be that if you decide to play Souls games before Sekiro, forget about Sekiro being even related to those games afterwards because they play so differently gameplay-wise. You will appreciate Sekiro much more if you treat it as it’s own identity.

 

I don’t want to go into detail about how great the Soulsborne series are, since many people have already covered that, but Sekiro is also a phenomenal game in my personal opinion. I absolutely love the combat in that game and once you’ve mastered let’s say a boss fight, it almost feels like a dance more than a fight ? 
 

 

[KindaSabbath]

22 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

However, there are two things I would say require caution with that approach.

 

1.  some of the souls staples that Sekiro does have are really not particulalry well explained for a souls-neophyte. They definitely created Sekiro to be approached by people at least somewhat familiar with the structure and tempo of previous souls games, so while it is quite an outlier, I think there is an expectation of familiarity baked into it.

 

2. Sekiro is much more precise, and much more difficult. It is still the Souls-style difficulty - one that is overcome primarily through practice and determination, so I have no doubt that you would conquer it, (given your patience and endurance training in games like Trials!) - however, doing so first may have an unintended side-effect... it may make all the subsequent games feel tame in difficulty by comparison.

Because Sekiro does not allow any real customisation of build, or real upgrading, it works on requiring a level of combat finesse that is much more punishing and has a much higher bar of mastery than the other games - with far less room for error. While the others are not playing in the exact same wheelhouse, that mastery would absolutely carry over to the others, and could end up lessening the impact of the other games, simply by comparison.

 

Great points! So Sekiro could be a trial by fire introduction to FromSoft. I spent quite a bit of my evening yesterday looking into games and especially Fromsoft offerings because after I finished Trials - I've just had a massive bout of *meh* - not knowing what to play next. I only started Titanfall 2 because of the ongoing server issues. I mention this because the Fromsoft games (Sekiro and Bloodborne in particular) are the first to get me fired up and wanting to tackle something new. Sekiro looks gorgeous and the combat looks insanely fun. 

 

In regards to other Souls games feeling tame afterwards, from my understanding, it would be possible to use more aggressive builds in order to keep a good level of challenge? 

 

19 hours ago, Don_carlito94 said:

Late congrats on completing Trials Fusion, what a nice achievement! 

 

Thank you mate! 

 

19 hours ago, Don_carlito94 said:

Since you’ve been talking about Soulsborne and Sekiro, my best advice would be that if you decide to play Souls games before Sekiro, forget about Sekiro being even related to those games afterwards because they play so differently gameplay-wise. You will appreciate Sekiro much more if you treat it as it’s own identity

 

It does seem to be it's own beast. I'm definitely leaning more towards Sekiro as the first one. Something about it just makes me feel like I NEED to play it ?

 

19 hours ago, Don_carlito94 said:

I don’t want to go into detail about how great the Soulsborne series are, since many people have already covered that, but Sekiro is also a phenomenal game in my personal opinion. I absolutely love the combat in that game and once you’ve mastered let’s say a boss fight, it almost feels like a dance more than a fight  

 

Yeah the Soulsborne series gets a lot of love around here. All I can say is that I want to dance with that big fucking bearded dude! It looks so much fun ??

[DrBloodmoney]

1 minute ago, KindaSabbath said:

 

Great points! So Sekiro could be a trial by fire introduction to FromSoft. I spent quite a bit of my evening yesterday looking into games and especially Fromsoft offerings because after I finished Trials - I've just had a massive bout of *meh* - not knowing what to play next. I only started Titanfall 2 because of the ongoing server issues. I mention this because the Fromsoft games (Sekiro and Bloodborne in particular) are the first to get me fired up and wanting to tackle something new. Sekiro looks gorgeous and the combat looks insanely fun. 

 

In regards to other Souls games feeling tame afterwards, from my understanding, it would be possible to use more aggressive builds in order to keep a good level of challenge? 

 

Oh, for sure - essentially what Sekiro would give you is an engrained level of understanding of things like parry/riposte timing and the general pacing and basic elements of souls-combat - separating out enemies, learning when to go aggressive or when to heal, delving with your stamina vs the enemy stamina etc. - it's not a million miles away from other souls-likes, it's just less forgiving. What it lacks is any build type or levelling system - so essentially, going backwards would mean you had all the advantages that build customisation brings, and the ability to spec a certain way, but also the baseline level of 'pure' combat mastery, which could make them feel a little easier.

 

 

Of course, Sekiro is quite different in a lot of other areas - traversal for example, because Sekiro allows for verticality in a way none of the other games do as it has grappling hook mechanics to get on top of buildings / cliffs etc, which the others don't. There is also a lot more focus on stealth in Sekiro - it's the only one with things like hiding reeds, and the only one really with multiple narrative paths (or at least, with them more fleshed out).

 

I certainly wouldn't warn you off playing it first - I was manning thinking of a kind of "Souls On-Ramp" - starting with Sekiro is definitely, from a challenge point of view, starting in the fast lane! - but part of the draw of Souls games - and what give you the stamina to fight through the toughest sections - has to come from a desire to see the narrative, and so if Sekiro appeals the most right now, then that is a part of that, and you should go for it!

[Arcesius]

30 minutes ago, KindaSabbath said:

I mention this because the Fromsoft games (Sekiro and Bloodborne in particular) are the first to get me fired up and wanting to tackle something new. Sekiro looks gorgeous and the combat looks insanely fun. 

 

Well, there you have it... I am always in favor of playing whatever you really feel like playing, not forcing you to start something you don't really want to get to yet.. If Sekiro is calling your name... Fire it up!  

 

 

Quote

In regards to other Souls games feeling tame afterwards, from my understanding, it would be possible to use more aggressive builds in order to keep a good level of challenge? 

 

If you play Bloodborne next, you won't have an alternative to being aggressive. There is a rally-mechanic in that game where you regain a bit of your lost health if you damage your enemy in a short interval after you have been damaged yourself. The game is all about being aggressive. 

 

Also, the build diversity in Bloodborne is there, but it is not AS important as in the Dark Souls entries. Additionally... the atmosphere, man... Sekiro is gorgeous, but Bloodborne is terrifying! In a good way  

 

 

I have to disagree with one point, however: 

 

19 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

I certainly wouldn't warn you off playing it first - I was manning thinking of a kind of "Souls On-Ramp" - starting with Sekiro is definitely, from a challenge point of view, starting in the fast lane! - but part of the draw of Souls games - and what give you the stamina to fight through the toughest sections - has to come from a desire to see the narrative, and so if Sekiro appeals the most right now, then that is a part of that, and you should go for it!

 

I don't think that this game is - for someone that has never played a Souls-game and is thus not "trained" to play a certain way - the most challenging game FromSoft has put out. I think it is in fact one of their more accessible games, both from a narrative, but also from a mechanical perspective. 

 

The lack of build-variety means that you "only" need to master the one fighting style that is viable, without having to experiment with stats or weapons. And while I'm not saying that Sekiro is a walk in the park, I for instance had way more trouble with bosses such as Orphan of Kos, Laurence, Midir, Gael, Manus or Pinwheel (), for example, than with anything that Sekiro threw at me. If you have a good sense of rhythm (and our good  @KindaSabbath here seems to have one), and you are patient enough and observe your opponent, the game is quite manageable I'd say. 

 

It might be a rough game nonetheless, but I wouldn't hype the difficulty up as much ? He might be disappointed otherwise.

 

 

BUT, the interesting part now is that @KindaSabbath could, as the first of us, start with Sekiro and we'll all get to read how his experience with tackling the games in a completely different order is! 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Arcesius

[Copanele]

7 minutes ago, Arcesius said:

I don't think that this game is - for someone that has never played a Souls-game and is thus not "trained" to play a certain way - the most challenging game FromSoft has put out. I think it is in fact one of their more accessible games, both from a narrative, but also from a mechanical perspective. 

 

The lack of build-variety means that you "only" need to master the one fighting style that is viable, without having to experiment with stats or weapons. And while I'm not saying that Sekiro is a walk in the park, I for instance had way more trouble with bosses such as Orphan of Kos, Laurence, Midir, Gael, Manus or Pinwheel, for example, than with anything that Sekiro threw at me. If you have a good sense of rhythm (and our good @KindaSabbath here seems to have one), and you are patient enough and observe your opponent, the game is quite manageable I'd say.

 

OR you can do the Copanele's special "I AM FAST AS FK BOI" and do Lightning McQueen laps around the final boss since my rhythm game is that of a pirate with a peg leg. Not having a stamina bar trivializes the game

 

I also believe Bloodborne to be the hardest Souls game to date (Forget Orphan of Kos, try Loran Darkbeast combo into lag lightning lel). Sekiro is pretty manageable in comparison

The only truly headache part in Sekiro is figuring out that cherry blossom whatever ending, you DEFINITELY need a guide there. I haven't been so confused in a Fromsoft game since discovering the Broken Pendant in Dark Souls 1.

[DrBloodmoney]

14 minutes ago, Arcesius said:

The lack of build-variety means that you "only" need to master the one fighting style that is viable, without having to experiment with stats or weapons. And while I'm not saying that Sekiro is a walk in the park, I for instance had way more trouble with bosses such as Orphan of Kos, Laurence, Midir, Gael, Manus or Pinwheel (), for example, than with anything that Sekiro threw at me. If you have a good sense of rhythm (and our good  @KindaSabbath here seems to have one), and you are patient enough and observe your opponent, the game is quite manageable I'd say. 

 

You know - actually, that's true - and a good point.

I hadn't really considered that - but yeah, the lack of different methods to beat Sekiro could be argued to make it more accessible on that front, given you don't have to spend a bunch of time learning stat building (and, in the case of DSII, spending 150 hours trying to work out what ADP does, before concluding it does both nothing, and everything ?)

 

I sometimes forget that how people see difficulty is not the same as mine - for me, there was much more difficulty in the 'purity' of Sekiro - when it offered a challenging boss (and personally, I found it's bosses much harder than most in the other games) the fact that there is no 'second path' - no chance to level, or rebuild, or try a different weapon or spell - you have to just keep getting better at it's one viable way.

 

For me, that was the source of the difficulty, but @Arcesius is right - that has much more to do with that 'speccing and building' aspect being part of what I enjoy most, and therefore don't see as being a burden or adding to the challenge - it alleviates some of it for me, but that's more a personal taste thing. 

 

 

@Arcesius - I do disagree on the difficulty of the bosses though - I found Lady Butterfly, the Owl, and both versions of the final boss to be far more difficult than anything in Bloodborne or any of the DS games - though again, that probably comes down to my rotten parry-timing more than anything else ?

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[Z1MZUM]

Listen to Black Sabbath.

[Destructor-8]

On 19/09/2021 at 10:27 PM, KindaSabbath said:

It's so cool, it feels like you're playing with your friends. Bro, I'm calling it now; the moment you sit down and prioritise Fusion - you will destroy it. 

 

I've watched your videos & you are really amazing at the game. The good thing is that the game is so good that I'm just going to keep playing until I get good enough & that's quite comforting in a way lol. Also it's nice to see you deciding on what next to play & it seems like there's a lot of people here with great input in helping decide that.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Destructor-8

[KindaSabbath]

Update - I'm A Massive Idiot:

So I don't know how obvious it has been to anyone who checks in on my thread but after completing Trials Fusion - my newly found favourite game of all time. I've had very, very low motivation to play anything. I started up and finished Titanfall 2 but only because of the server issues and fear of the multiplayer trophies becoming unobtainable. Everything has just felt *meh*... Going from Fusion, to ANY game is like going from a beautifully prepared steak dinner to a corned beef sandwich. 

 

So this lead to me just not wanting to start a new game, as I worried I'd just get bored quickly and then need to force myself to power through. However, I've seen around the forums people allude to being able to play a game offline, make progress, and then synch to their profile if they like it by just signing into the offline account with their main account... AKA Blank accounts. I looked into this yesterday - I fancied starting Little Nightmares but just didn't know if I'd get bored immediately, so this seemed like a good idea. 

 

I fired up Little Nightmares offline and played through the story. I had fun, so I went for Hard to The Core - the deathless speed run. I got it on my second try and I was having fun, so I decided to sign in to my main account. The method includes removing your main account so as you can sign in. It gave me a warning that I would lose my media video clips/screen shots - this is no problem as I upload the ones I like to YouTube anyway. So I went ahead with it.

 

Fast forward to later in the evening when @det_gittes invited me to a party to help him get the Tandem trophy in Trials Rising. I fired up the game to find out I was level 18 with no tracks unlocked. I had lost EVERYTHING progress wise in the game. At first I had no idea why, I assumed my save files would be stored on my console, so it didn't even cross my mind that this could be down to what I had done earlier in the day. We concluded that I must of just been unlucky and my save file had been corrupt.

 

After we jumped out of the party, I immediately loaded up Trials Fusion and found the exact same thing - 0% progress. Luckily I was able to download my cloud save from ps+ to restore all of my progress. Unfortunately, I had not purchased ps+ until after I had finished Rising. So that progress, over 100hrs worth, is gone forever. 

 

I am devastated. My in game progress matters so much more to me than trophies. I feel so stupid. I've looked into it to see if there's any way to get my progress back, nothing can be done. Big lesson learned here for me - just don't mess about with that shit. 

 

Tough post this one, my understanding is that using a blank account is somewhat frowned upon and generally used by those who are scared of losing their completion record. This is not why I chose to try this method at all and I hope that's obvious. I didn't need to post anything about this publicly but at the same time, that just feels shitty. 

 

I guess I'll be working through Rising again in-between games as it's the only way I'll get my progress back and there's a few extreme tracks that I'd like to revisit. I'm so upset with myself. 

 

I'd like everybody to rally up and collectively give me a digital slap! 

Edited September 23, 2021 by KindaSabbath

[det_gittes]

50 minutes ago, KindaSabbath said:

I had lost EVERYTHING progress wise in the game.

That's a tough lesson for sure. I know I told you at first that no much harm was done as you completed the game anyway but I can definitely see how the progress could be so important to you, especially that you had plans to revisit some of the tracks. The situation really sucks, but at least it will force you to spend a bit more time with the game you enjoyed so much, if that makes it any less painful  

[DrunkenEngineer]

Wow man, that is devastating.

 

But let's keep this in perspective - this is a game you platinumed, correct?  So that progress is still retained.  And, it's not like you've lost your entire account to a ban, either!

 

I've lost progress in games by playing around with upload/download on PS+ (but never the offline account trick, first time I've heard of it) so I can empathize with what you are feeling.  You've got this dude, imagine how much quicker you'll get that progress back given the experience you've accumulated in the game.  I bet you'll be surprised.

 

Chin up.

[Arcesius]

20 hours ago, KindaSabbath said:

I fired up Little Nightmares offline and played through the story. I had fun, so I went for Hard to The Core - the deathless speed run. I got it on my second try and I was having fun, so I decided to sign in to my main account.

 

Not bad! I needed a handful of attempts to get this one done  You had never played the original Little Nightmares before? I really enjoyed that game and am only waiting for a good sale on the sequel.. 

 

 

20 hours ago, KindaSabbath said:

After we jumped out of the party, I immediately loaded up Trials Fusion and found the exact same thing - 0% progress. Luckily I was able to download my cloud save from ps+ to restore all of my progress. Unfortunately, I had not purchased ps+ until after I had finished Rising. So that progress, over 100hrs worth, is gone forever. 

I am devastated. My in game progress matters so much more to me than trophies. I feel so stupid. I've looked into it to see if there's any way to get my progress back, nothing can be done. Big lesson learned here for me - just don't mess about with that shit. 

 

Dude, that fucking sucks  I never tried to use this method, but I would not have noticed either that this results in a progress-wipe... PS+ really is something you should keep active if you care about your saves, but it really is total shit that you lost your Rising progress. It was also your first Trials game, so your stats would definitely have been something cool to keep and remind yourself how your start with the franchise was... 

 

Sorry that this happened! But as mentioned above, the only solution is to play more Trials  

 

 

20 hours ago, KindaSabbath said:

Tough post this one, my understanding is that using a blank account is somewhat frowned upon and generally used by those who are scared of losing their completion record. This is not why I chose to try this method at all and I hope that's obvious. I didn't need to post anything about this publicly but at the same time, that just feels shitty. 

 

Meh, many things are "frowned upon", but you shouldn't care. Also, just for the record... in your case it's pretty clear that completion% is not the reason ? Don't worry about it. 

 

 

20 hours ago, KindaSabbath said:

I'd like everybody to rally up and collectively give me a digital slap! 

 

  (this is the closest thing to a slap I could find that is forum-provided  )