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Hades PS5 Trophy Thoughts


MoreThanAble

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8 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

I don't - I know my limits, and what I'm capable of, and am not, and what I'm willing to endure and what I'm not...

 

...and I like trophies too! I like having that record of my gaming - that history and that list of achievements...

...I just don't need a super-rare trophy percentage to go along with any gaming accomplishment to make me feel like an extra-special, precious boy.

 

The thing is, nobody here has been arguing about wanting Hades to be a super rare platinum (at least I cannot recall such posts.. maybe I'm misremembering). I didn't want Hades to be a super rare, sub-1% plat, and I haven't been making the observations I made because I was expecting this game to be the next super rare game. I wanted Hades to have a challenging trophy list, full of incentives to do different and interesting runs, with no exploits. This is one of the few games that actually had the potential to come with a challenging, interesting trophy list. Instead, it resorted to having a grindy one and included a god-mode. 

 

Also, to go back to Nex Machina.. I know you were talking about how to define the "length" of a game :) But you also used the trophy list to guide you in what to do in the game. The same could apply I believe to Hades or any other rogue-like. 

Edited by Arcesius
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2 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

I'm not - I'm referring to Nex Machina...

 

...did you even read the posts you're citing? - it was literally the word immediately prior to where you started quoting...

Don’t get snarky. I made a mistake after staying up and studying for 13 hours. 

 

3 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Someone could drive 26 miles very easily...

...that doesn't mean people are only running marathons because they don't have a car though.

False equivalency. People drive and run for different reasons. People who use cheat mode on games for platinum and people who play the game on default legit settings for platinum are after the same thing. One just got there in the easiest way possible. If you ran 26 miles in a marathon, and nobody in the world ever appreciated that accomplishment of yours because running 2 miles is equally impressing, I’m sure you’d still feel accomplished, but also a little shitty too if that kept happening everytime you ran. 

 

8 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

...I just don't need a super-rare trophy percentage to go along with any gaming accomplishment to make me feel like an extra-special, precious boy.

I hope this isn’t another condescending snarky jab. I guess people who feel special for platinuming Crypt of the Necrodancer are just a bunch of pathetic children in that case huh?

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accessibility can be a good thing in video games if its meant to let people with a handicap experience the story and actually being able to play the game as well.

 

If its something like god mode, then i think its pointless because just like in real life, not everyone is meant to win the tour de france unless you inject yourself with god mode (doping) to be the among the best. So if we look at it that way then yes, its dumb. Obviously not the same thing but im just saying, let a challenge be a challenge.

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30 minutes ago, SakiSakiSakiSakiSaki said:

You literally just wrote a 5 paragraph rant lecturing everyone on how to enjoy their video games and stop fixating on trophies. The intolerant one is you, sorry. 

This sums up everything we need to know about you & why trying to talk or reason with you is a wasted effort.

 

It wasn't a rant & no-one on here besides you has called it such, if you'd actually read it properly it was about my experience with games from when I was little up until now & talked about accessibility. I made one minor point about trophy rarity which was also steeped in my opinion in the whole post but sure, my experience & a single mention is ranting & telling people how to enjoy games. 

 

If anyone here is intolerant, I'd say it's the person who's arguing with everybody disagreeing with his opinion & then accusing them of ranting in an older post because they can't argue with anything said in a more recent one that they only quoted 2 parts of.

Edited by ObsceneSociopath
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19 minutes ago, Arcesius said:

Also, to go back to Nex Machina.. I know you were talking about how to define the "length" of a game :) But you also used the trophy list to guide you in what to do in the game. The same could apply I believe to Hades or any other rogue-like. 

 

Sure - I can see that argument, but I also think that mine holds up too...

 

Okay, so:

 

with Nex, the in-game feats have a broad range of difficulty, with a very high ceiling.

I played the amount of them that I was able - up to a certain level -and left some that I wasn't able to do unfinished.

The trophy list happened to be covered by the amount I did, and so I got the Plat.

 

Hades also will (likely) have a broad range of challenge, with a very high ceiling.

 Again, I will be playing the amount of it I am able, up to a certain level that I find fun, and the stop.

If that covers the full trophy list, then I will get that plat - and if it doesn't then I won't.

 

There might be a difference in the sense that with Nex, I was able to use the trophy list as a 'benchmark' for success - but that's only because, in the case of Nex, that trophy list happened to be pitched at a similar level to my own abilities. In Hades, if my own abilities are significantly higher than the trophy list requirements, that doesn't mean I will automatically be lowering my own gaming level to match it.

 

The difference in where the upper skill-ceiling of the game is, and where the ceiling of the trophy list requirements is may be different across different games, but my personal skill-ceiling remains the same - and I pitch the difficulty I play at, and what I am able to achieve, at that level.

 

Whether my ceiling is higher than that of the trophy list requirements is the question I care about.

By how much it is (or isn't,) is immaterial to me

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, SakiSakiSakiSakiSaki said:

Don’t get snarky. I made a mistake after staying up and studying for 13 hours. 

 

Sorry - fair play - that was a bit snarky.

 

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False equivalency. People drive and run for different reasons. People who use cheat mode on games for platinum and people who play the game on default legit settings for platinum are after the same thing. One just got there in the easiest way possible. If you ran 26 miles in a marathon, and nobody in the world ever appreciated that accomplishment of yours because running 2 miles is equally impressing, I’m sure you’d still feel accomplished, but also a little shitty too if that kept happening everytime you ran. 

 

This is where our points of view diverge. I disagree. I think some people are playing just for trophies, and they might just take the path of least resistance, but I think a far larger proportion of people are playing games because we are human, and seek challenge of some sort.

 

I think most people would see just skating through a game on easy-breazy, trivialising the game by setting the difficulty far too low for their own skill level,  and being done with it as fast as possible as a waste of their money.

 

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I hope this isn’t another condescending snarky jab. I guess people who feel special for platinuming Crypt of the Necrodancer are just a bunch of pathetic children in that case huh?

 

It's not - it's saying that if they added God Mode to Crypt of the Necrodancer tomorrow, and the rarity shot up to 50%, that wouldn't change the achievement of the people who currently have it one bit - or change the achievement or sense of accomplishment of anyone who did it in the future without using the God Mode.

They know what they did.

The rarity is just a number. The accomplishment exists regardless.

 

 

Edited by DrBloodmoney
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1 hour ago, KindaSabbath said:

Imo, in any game that has trophies or achievements, God mode/assist mode/cheats should disable trophies and achievements, period. 

 

 

Sadly developers don't care. Especially Sony developers.

 

Edited by XXIIlII
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6 minutes ago, XXIIlII said:

 

Sadly developers don't care. Especially Sony developers.

 


You’re right. Developers have time and time again shown they don’t see trophies the same way as a very, very small portion of their audience does. The developers are fine with those peoples self-imposed restrictions not playing their games, yet those same people aren’t fine with just moving on to other games/developers that offer products compelling to what they’re looking for. 
 

 

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26 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

I think most people would see just skating through a game on easy-breazy, trivialising the game by setting the difficulty far too low for their own skill level,  and being done with it as fast as possible as a waste of their money.

I agree, it would be a waste of their money. But tons of people buy 20-30 stacks of Ratalaika games and Breakthrough games because they’re after platinums. So in a sense they did get something out of it, at the cost of degrading modern trophy hunting leaderboards. 

 

26 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

It's not - it's saying that if they added God Mode to Crypt of the Necrodancer tomorrow, and the rarity shot up to 50%, that wouldn't change the achievement of the people who currently have it one bit - or change the achievement or sense of accomplishment of anyone who did it in the future without using the God Mode.

They know what they did.

The rarity is just a number. The accomplishment exists regardless.

 

I mean I agree with this too, but I bet the humble-bragging rights the 11 of them have must feel pretty good. It’s hard to feel cool if 2,000 other people are side by side with then, especially so if you can’t distinguish who did it out of genuine glory and who did it to add another easy 10m plat to their collection, rotting next to Breakthrough games. 
 

A lot of those CotND platinum holders documented their entire experience, from video to posting their achievements for a reason, glory from recognition. 
 

Speedrunners have an elegant solution to world records achieved in easy boring ways, and hard cumbersome ways. They split the leaderboards into categories. We don’t have anything like that. Everyone is of equal value without distinction. I don’t think it’s terrible for people wanting to feel like an elite in the community that they care about. The NBA would be a lot less fun to watch if they legally let drugged up players on steroids play on the same court as the legends. Kobe Bryant with the same ball stats as some roided up Captain America in his own team would diminish Kobe’s results if you can’t tell who is roided and who is legit. The more there are of a particular thing, the less valuable and incredulous it becomes. 
 

You can criticize people finding self worth in PNG files made by a corporate giant who has a literal infinite supply of them. But it’s the only valid metric of our gamer worth and metal for some of us. 

2 hours ago, ObsceneSociopath said:

My point is, people need to stop fixating on trophy rarity.

This is the essence of your post. This is the point you’re directing at everyone. Sure maybe what you said wasn’t a rant. But I hope you take a deep deep introspective dive within yourself and realize how authoritarian your “point” comes across. 
 

I’m really not trying to be a dickhead, but I called you oblivious because it seemed like you were lecturing trophy hunters about their dedication to their hobby, in their own forums. 

Edited by SakiSakiSakiSakiSaki
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15 minutes ago, SakiSakiSakiSakiSaki said:

I agree, it would be a waste of their money. But tons of people buy 20-30 stacks of Ratalaika games and Breakthrough games because they’re after platinums. So in a sense they did get something out of it, at the cost of degrading modern trophy hunting leaderboards. 

 

That's absolutely true - but those folks will be doing the same regardless - an easy option for a high quality game like Hades is hardly a drop in the ocean in comparison to the accounts you are talking about - and those folks wouldn't be buying a game like Hades period, unless they were using this kind of God Mode, so I just don't see it as a detriment. If anything, it actually benefits me - if some of that cash they are spending can go to a dev like Supergiant, instead of into Breakthrough's pocket once in a while, at least that's healthy for the industry, and fostering games I might actually want to play! ?

 

 

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I mean I agree with this too, but I bet the humble-bragging rights the 11 of them have must feel pretty good. It’s hard to feel cool if 2,000 other people are side by side with then, especially so if you can’t distinguish who did it out of genuine glory and who did it to add another easy 10m plat to their collection, rotting next to Breakthrough games. 

 

I know the argument well - but the fact is, no one outside of trophy hunters cares one fig about trophies, and those that do - within that community - are the same group who know exactly what the difference between a CotND plat and a Breakthrough Plat is. 

 

Yes, they might be 'the same' to a lay-person - but only in the sense that they are equally meaningless to them.

 

To anyone who would value trophies at all - they are about as similar to each other as a toaster made of custard is to the planet Venus. ?

 

 

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You can criticize people finding self worth in PNG files made by a corporate giant who has a literal infinite supply of them. But it’s the only valid metric of our gamer worth and metal for some of us. 

 

Come on - you can't believe that.

 

I can't believe that.

 

Gamers were sharing their personal achievements with one another long before there were trophies, and will continue to do so long after - it's been a part of the hobby since it became a hobby. The achievements matter within the community - digital jewellery or not ?

 

 

 

Edited by DrBloodmoney
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19 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

It's not - it's saying that if they added God Mode to Crypt of the Necrodancer tomorrow, and the rarity shot up to 50%, that wouldn't change the achievement of the people who currently have it one bit - or change the achievement or sense of accomplishment of anyone who did it in the future without using the God Mode.

 


You are correct here. But if that were to happen I’m going to assume the majority, if not all, of those 11 people will be pissed off though. ? 

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1 minute ago, Baker said:

You are correct here. But if that were to happen I’m going to assume the majority, if not all, of those 11 people will be pissed off though. 1f602.png 

 

haha - maybe...

 

....but pissed off or not - they'll still have a level of mastery of that game that only 10 others can claim - and that's worth the same  at any rarity!

 

 

You can take 11 ounces of gold and surround it by 5000 tonnes of pyrite.... it might be harder to see or distinguish... but its still only 11 oz of gold!

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Casting aside all of the debate and conversation around god mode and difficulties in general -

 

I just wanted to say that I'm super psyched for this game. I've had my eye on it since it originally launched but because I'm a shameless Sony fanboy, I deliberately held off to play it on PS5. I can't wait to get stuck in. I won't be touching any of the accessibility options personally, but more power to anyone who opts in on those for whatever reason they choose.

Edited by Crispy_Oglop
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4 hours ago, KindaSabbath said:

Imo, in any game that has trophies or achievements, God mode/assist mode/cheats should disable trophies and achievements, period. 

 

I think the argument that challenge is there for those who want it - just don't play assisted is completely flawed. I think it should be - assist mode is there for those who don't want the challenge but want to see the credits roll.

 

I don't agree that everyone should be entitled to earn a platinum trophy/completion of a trophy set. I do agree that everyone should be entitled to see and experience a game in its entirety. I just feel that the way these modes are implemented could be much better.

Nailed it.

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God mode seems great, and it's a clever use of an assist. It still requries you play, and learn the game, it's just a slightly difficulty nerf that gets more intense the more you struggle rather than just removing every semblence of challenge. Feels more like training wheels, unless you completly abuse it and die around 30 times.

17 hours ago, Dayngls said:

I have a Trophy guide done and ready to go. Nothing is missable. It is a time sink that can be difficult, but God Mode makes the game very easy. Trophies can be earned in God Mode as well. Be ready to pour a lot of hours into this game if going for the Plat.

 

Where do you post your guides too? Are you a PowerPyx/PSTrophies contributer, or do you run your own site?

Edited by PhantomFear94
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17 hours ago, Dayngls said:

I have a Trophy guide done and ready to go. Nothing is missable. It is a time sink that can be difficult, but God Mode makes the game very easy. Trophies can be earned in God Mode as well. Be ready to pour a lot of hours into this game if going for the Plat.

Thanks, good to know.

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5 hours ago, Deadly_Ha_Ha said:

I was hoping that an actual PS5 game would be the first game I played on ps5 but maybe it'll be Hades instead

everything looks better on the ps5 anyway but it truly is a treat to play the games made for the ps5. Hades while a great game, probably isn't the best game to show off the ps5 features.  I wouldn't let that stop me though.  The ps5 games will be coming soon.

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31 minutes ago, Arcesius said:

Listen, if you want to be condescending, at least get our points right.

 

We (I) don't want to get trophies easily while others struggle. That's actually the point. I want to have a hard time getting the trophies, because that's what I enjoy about trophy hunting.

 

Are you sure about that?

 

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Another game I thought that would be a nice challenge that has some sort of God mode. Growing trends

 

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I have nothing against developers wanting to make their game accessible to everybody BUT at least one trophy should require not using the "crutch" to complete the game so people can't use the God Mode here or say, Psychonauts 2's invincibility mode to get the Platinum. 

 

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What some of us are worried about is the current trend to include god-modes / invincibility modes that don't disable trophies, and the overall trivialization of trophy lists in big releases, but also more and more in indie games. I can count with one single finger the number of PS releases in 2021 that have a truly challenging trophy list and no exploits. 

 

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Now, I will still play Hades. I have been waiting a long time for this game to finally come to PS (haven't played it on any other platform though), but I'm still somewhat disappointed by the lack of incentive to overcome a good challenge in the trophy list, and also to learn that this is yet another game that can be trivialized by a god mode. 

 

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Because players want to get rewarded for not taking the easy way out? Seriously whats the point of a trophy if not to represent a challenge that you have completed? Trophies keep getting more and more "accessible" might as well give us an option to auto-pop all trophies at any point so no player feels excluded... 

 

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I think you (and some others) are missing a point here. No one is arguing about the god mode itself. It's just that this type of accessibilty feature should disable (at least some) trophies. That's all.

 

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Imo, in any game that has trophies or achievements, God mode/assist mode/cheats should disable trophies and achievements, period. 

 

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The list is inherently not challenging because the mode exists. Let's agree to disagree here.

 

I understand your point. You feel that the existence of a God mode, even if you don't use it, reduces the "challenge" of getting the trophies. And you want trophies to be challenging. Therefore, god modes should disable trophies, and people who are unable to get them without assistance should not be able to get them at all. And that's a pretty weird way to impose your sense of fun on others.

 

I see you platinumed Hollow Knight, another brutally hard platinum with a god mode that makes it trivial. The challenge lovers may ask whether you beat it legit, or whether you used god mode. My argument is "it doesn't matter, congrats on the plat." :) 

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43 minutes ago, PhyrxianLibrarin said:

Are you sure about that?

 

Pretty sure. At least when it comes to my own opinion. But even with all the members you quoted, I don't see anyone stating that they want easy trophies that come hard for others. All I see is people stating that they would like the trophy list to be challenging. Even for themselves. 

 

 

43 minutes ago, PhyrxianLibrarin said:

I understand your point. You feel that the existence of a God mode, even if you don't use it, reduces the "challenge" of getting the trophies. And you want trophies to be challenging. Therefore, god modes should disable trophies, and people who are unable to get them without assistance should not be able to get them at all. And that's a pretty weird way to impose your sense of fun on others.

 

I'm not imposing my sense of fun on anyone. I don't have any ability to change or influence the trophy list. I'm just stating what I would have hoped for the trophy list to look like, and expressing my concern for the lack of truly challenging games and the trend of trivializing trophy lists. 

 

The game itself should be fun enough. I was just hoping for a more creative, challenging trophy list to come with it. Not the boring, grindy one we got. 

 

 

43 minutes ago, PhyrxianLibrarin said:

I see you platinumed Hollow Knight, another brutally hard platinum with a god mode that makes it trivial. The challenge lovers may ask whether you beat it legit, or whether you used god mode. My argument is "it doesn't matter, congrats on the plat." :) 

 

Thanks! I don't care what others think though. I know what I did, and so do the people I discussed the game with while I was going for it. 

 

If you care about it... you can always check the date when the thread about the exploit was created and you'll notice that I got the plat before the exploit was found. Or don't. It doesn't change anything. 

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