AJ_Radio Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 You guys have the choice to comment on these threads, leave, or don't bother posting to begin with. I basically know there is a chance somebody will call me out and try to defend their position. I don't align with either side, I'm just pointing out the glaring problem these games might represent, which is trophy addiction. We all like to say play the games you want. Great, I'm all for that. We can say that trophies shouldn't dictate what games you want to play either. But we have proven that trophies do dictate what games you want to play time and time again. Some old games like Blood: Fresh Supply I have been looking at for a while on Steam. They have an achievement list. Even if there was no achievement list I would still be interested in the game anyway. That is how things should be. Trophies and achievements are basically the cherry on the top at best. The actual content of games should be what really matters. I would of bought LA Noire, all the God of War games and all the Uncharted games even if they never had trophies. Because I had interest in those games long before I even got into trophies, and I enjoyed them for what they were. But we really have to come out and admit that yes, we have bought a few games purely for trophies. It triggers me a little whenever somebody comes on here and states that they need to play easy stuff to "catch up". Catch up with what exactly? The leaderboards? Nobody cares if you're rank 200 worldwide. Nobody cares that you earned over 100 platinums in the past month. I just fail to see what exactly are they aiming for. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrillhelm Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, AJ_-_808 said: Who knows. I was just pointing out that certain people like to play the victim a little too much. They enter into an otherwise mostly civil (with obvious trolls being ignored) debate/conversation etc, somehow find or make up a reason to be insulted, start insulting others, and thus devolve the thread. And no @Thrillhelm, I'm not blame shifting - you've played the victim card in a few of these threads. And yes, it is a predatory business model - it's aimed specifically at feeding your guys' addiction. Say truthfully if you'd buy any of these if it wasn't for the cheap shiny platinum. If you weren't ashamed of it on some level, you probably wouldn't be so quick to yell "stat shaming". It's nonsense. ________________________ Real question is, if these threads keep popping up, will Sly continue to ignore them, or eventually address the issue? Ad hominem at its finest. It's not a "victim card" if someone calls your argument invalid judging from their high horse by what games you play, and post a link into a discussion to your account to show "whats wrong with trophy hunting". Yeah that's some discussion culture. Again it is assumed people like me are addicted when in reality at some point people like me have learned to manage their resources (that's as far as I will explain). If you say predatory bc they feast on people then not at 99 cent per game. Ashamed? Ad hominem. You wanna shame people or let them feel ashamed for what they play. That's a terrible way to think. Or is it because its easier to personally attack someone or assume something because a normal discussion takes some effort? Edited August 23, 2021 by Thrillhelm Double post 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zid2016 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 46 minutes ago, AJ_Radio said: It triggers me a little whenever somebody comes on here and states that they need to play easy stuff to "catch up". Catch up with what exactly? The leaderboards? Nobody cares if you're rank 200 worldwide. Nobody cares that you earned over 100 platinums in the past month. I just fail to see what exactly are they aiming for. Nobody needs to justify how they enjoy gaming or what they are aiming to anyone here. Some people are too obsessed with judging other peoples trophy lists. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Radio Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, zid2016 said: Nobody needs to justify how they enjoy gaming or what they are aiming to anyone here. Some people are too obsessed with judging other peoples trophy lists. So I'm not allowed to give advice? I'm not allowed to share an unpopular opinion? Why even have these forums at all? Just block your ears whenever these troll hate threads come up. Not that hard to do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post You Posted August 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, AJ_-_808 said: If you weren't ashamed of it on some level, you probably wouldn't be so quick to yell "stat shaming". It's nonsense. Hmm yes, now that you mention it. That is a very interesting point actually, For example, if someone is accusing someone of fat shaming, it's because they happened to mention something about that person's weight, that they didn't want to hear or know about, unintentionally or not. However, stat shaming shouldn't even exist in reality, it should actually be the opposite. I mean, isn't that the whole point of buying shit games, to boost your trophy level to the top of the leader boards? You're higher than everyone else, isn't that a goal that had been achieved? If you're not proud of all the hundred of trophies you have over everybody else and go on the defensive, that's kind of a subtle self admission that you've done something wrong. I also don't understand the "gate keeping" term either. I mean, we're actually trying to open the gates for you, to introduce you to many more games. As for sure there's still way more good fantasic and even average games that are waaaay better than the 5 minute platinum games. Almost everything is backwards.. Edited August 23, 2021 by enaysoft 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DrBloodmoney Posted August 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 23, 2021 51 minutes ago, Thrillhelm said: Ad hominem at its finest. It's not a "victim card" if someone calls your argument invalid judging from their high horse by what games you play, and post a link into a discussion to your account to show "whats wrong with trophy hunting". Yeah that's some discussion culture. Ashamed? Ad hominem. You wanna shame people or let them feel ashamed for what they play. That's a terrible way to think. Or is it because its easier to personally attack someone or assume something because a normal discussion takes some effort? Again, @Thrillhelm, stop trying to use "Ad Hominem" as if it is an argument killer. These threads are discussing trophy hunting - a hobby every single person in the conversation is engaged in. We all have skin in the game, and no one is arguing their point in a vacuum, so 'ad hominem' is a complaint that could be levelled at virtually every post on the subject if you try hard enough - and is therefore entirely meaningless in this context. The only points of view that could not in any way be argued as 'ad hominem' would be those coming from someone who had never earned a trophy in their life - and those arguments would be completely meaningless, as they wouldn't have the faintest idea what we are talking about. Simply because an argument stems from a specific and practised point of view - and directly goes against another - doesn't make the point invalid. You yourself are the one who turned this thread personal: 7 hours ago, Thrillhelm said: So it never happens, right? Guess what, it happened to me, since these kind of threads turn into insult and harassment games pretty quick. That is the first post in this thread where any user presented themselves as the example, rather than simple referring to broad cross-sections of non-specific users. No one tagged you into it, and no one mentioned you, or any other user specifically, prior to that post. You added to it here: 52 minutes ago, Thrillhelm said: Again it is assumed people like me are addicted when in reality at some point people like me have learned to manage their resources (that's as far as I will explain). If you say predatory bc they feast on people then not at 99 cent per game. You are the one presenting yourself as the focal point. You took a broad, non-user specific comments as a personal slight, and responded as such. That, in turn, invites ad hominem counterpoints - obviously. You can't make the argument all about yourself, then cry foul when people respond in kind. Make your points - you are a site user with as much right as anyone to - but stop calling "ad hominem" every time someone else responds. Ironically, the most "ad hominem" posts here, are the ones where you attack other peoples posts, declaring them "ad hominem" rather than actually arguing on their merits ? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ya_Boy_James Posted August 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 23, 2021 Sigh. Another one of these threads. Someone probably needs to hear this... ?️ No one can make you feel bad about the games you play if you feel good about the games you play 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 @DrBloodmoney Save your fingers and just ignore the guy, any words you say will be taken out of context. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majob Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 5 hours ago, AJ_-_808 said: Generally agree to this statement, but do you still feel that way with the "games" that are blatantly using such a predatory business model? Calling these games predatory is a stretch when they're only a dollar. With that logic you might as well call Lays predatory when I buy a bag of their chips for $1.59 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shlomaniac Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 I had more regret buying cyberpunk than buying this. Chill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 1 hour ago, majob said: Calling these games predatory is a stretch when they're only a dollar. With that logic you might as well call Lays predatory when I buy a bag of their chips for $1.59 That is EXACTLY the reason why they are predatory, nobody just buys one. That's actually the phycological first step. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Heather342 Posted August 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 23, 2021 2 hours ago, majob said: Calling these games predatory is a stretch when they're only a dollar. With that logic you might as well call Lays predatory when I buy a bag of their chips for $1.59 It's microtransactions, which are known to be predatory. Except with this they've taken out the random elements of loot box mechanics, you know you're getting a platinum. In my opinion it is exploitative and I don't agree with it 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majob Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 1 hour ago, enaysoft said: That is EXACTLY the reason why they are predatory, nobody just buys one. That's actually the phycological first step. For something to be predatory it would also have to be in a pricing range that's exploitive, i.e , higher than it deserves to be to take advantage of demand and something for a dollar just doesn't fall in that category. As I said before, this is about as predatory as buying cheap junk food 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBloodmoney Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, majob said: For something to be predatory it would also have to be in a pricing range that's exploitive, i.e , higher than it deserves to be to take advantage of demand and something for a dollar just doesn't fall in that category. As I said before, this is about as predatory as buying cheap junk food I'm not 100% sure I agree that these games are "predatory" - personally I think they would fall more under "exploitative" rather than out and out "Predatory" - however, I do think you are wrong about the requirement for a high monetary value in order for a product's business model to be "predatory". Scratch Cards, lottery tickets, slot machines, lots of 'collectible' kids toys, trading cards etc. - a lot of those work on pretty predatory business models, and many have individual sale prices of under a dollar or two. Its the cumulative effect that costs people, not the single transaction. The compulsive nature and the addictive quality, coupled with the clear indication that the item is one of a set, or a series or a continual cycle that makes it predatory - in fact, the very fact that a single transaction is fairly cheap is part of what drives that - it feeds a "what harm can one more do" mentality, where the consumer is caught up in a web or cycle of purchasing to get their dopamine rush or fix or to complete a set or finish a line that allows the predator to toy with them and keep them on a hook indefinitely - or until they run dry. Edited August 23, 2021 by DrBloodmoney 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather342 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 11 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said: Its the cumulative effect that costs people, not the single transaction. The compulsive nature and the addictive quality, coupled with the clear indication that the item is one of a set, or a series or a continual cycle that makes it predatory - in fact, the very fact that a single transaction is fairly cheap is part of what drives that - it feeds a "what harm can one more do" mentality, where the consumer is caught up in a web or cycle of purchasing to get their dopamine rush or fix or to complete a set or finish a line that allows the predator to toy with them and keep them on a hook indefinitely - or until they run dry. This was my view that I tried to convey earlier, only this is articulated way better than I could do ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sunny Posted August 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 23, 2021 At this point I'm just here for the comments. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild-Arms-R Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, Sunnyburrito said: At this point I'm just here for the comments. I think that’s why most of us our at this point. Lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dr_Mayus Posted August 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 23, 2021 7 hours ago, enaysoft said: "Trophies" That's the only problem here. It's become a hypnotic wrist watch in front of everyone's face making everyone behave out of character. Snap your fingers and all the trophies vanish. Well if they actually did vanish over night. Only the people playing the shit games would be affected. But even take these same games and give them 6 bronze trophies and no plat...would the same people still buy them? If the answer is No then the people buying them should really think about why they are buying them. Also, i hope some of the people see that the reason a lot of us are against these games is not to "insult you" but to try and help. The same way you would want to help someone addicted to alcohol or gambling. Those things by themselves are not a problem...but over time they can create an unhealthy addiction and that is what we are addressing. I had a friend that one year decided to put the money she spent on scratch cards into a jar instead. She was blown away by how much was in there and took the money and went on a trip. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_-_808 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 5 hours ago, TKdovahkiin said: Just appreciate what he provides for all of us here to enjoy a dang hobby, and quit making everything so stressful and complicated! ok? Perhaps I should've been more clear. A large factor of these threads is the rarity leaderboard that people keep asking for and being ignored. If that issue was addressed, there's a fair chance these threads would stop popping up (or at least kessen) because these games wouldn't be affecting other people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild-Arms-R Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dr_Mayus said: But even take these same games and give them 6 bronze trophies and no plat...would the same people still buy them? If the answer is No then the people buying them should really think about why they are buying them. Also, i hope some of the people see that the reason a lot of us are against these games is not to "insult you" but to try and help. The same way you would want to help someone addicted to alcohol or gambling. Those things by themselves are not a problem...but over time they can create an unhealthy addiction and that is what we are addressing. I had a friend that one year decided to put the money she spent on scratch cards into a jar instead. She was blown away by how much was in there and took the money and went on a trip. This is the most reasonable post I’ve seen in this topic. It’s true everyone buying these games are addicts. They are only destroying them selves. Some ppl I see like the above are trying to genuinely help. Others our(just being honest) just low key profile flexing. Still I recommend you 11 gold game guys get out while you still can, going down this rabbit hole will not end well… Edited August 23, 2021 by Wild-Arms-R 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AJ_-_808 Posted August 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Thrillhelm said: Again it is assumed people like me are addicted when in reality at some point people like me have learned to manage their resources (that's as far as I will explain). If you say predatory bc they feast on people then not at 99 cent per game Actually, I conversed with at least 3 people in one of the previous threads that straight up said they had to buy these games to either "catch up" or simply because they just wanted the quick trophy boost, even though they didnt enjoy a fair number of what they were playing. They were completely aware of why they buy these and were ok with it. And that was that - no victims, no insults, just a couple of adults discussing the topic. Why do you feel it's not exploitive just because it's cheap? "It's only a dollar" or whatever price doesn't change the fact that these are released for the aforementioned reason. Edit- We're at a point where this guy is releasing each level of his game as it's own game with it's own platinum. Do you honestly feel that's not exploiting the system? Edited August 23, 2021 by AJ_-_808 Changed predatory to exploitive 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_-_808 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, TKdovahkiin said: None of it is addressable by the owner of this site which can be the only reason why it isn't. Too many divisive factors involved The owner of the site has been incommunicado as per his own CRT and mods, which have both put in a chunk of work at creating an alternative just for it to go no where. He hasnt addressed this, or anything else because he's not here, not because he's incapable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepEyes7 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, TKdovahkiin said: Sly removes cheaters. He can't change the trophy system at large. Too much is being asked of a mere mortal here. Maybe this is a job for Batman himself... Sly doesn't remove cheaters, the CRT does it for him, Sly delegate it to them and that's perfect... Nobody is asking to Sly to directly make the changes, if he doesn't have the time then why don't delegate it to somebody else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deluziion90 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 7 hours ago, AJ_Radio said: I would of bought LA Noire, all the God of War games and all the Uncharted games even if they never had trophies. Because I had interest in those games long before I even got into trophies, and I enjoyed them for what they were. But we really have to come out and admit that yes, we have bought a few games purely for trophies. Pretty much this all the way. I've bought my playstation 4 years ago because I wanted to play Horizon Zero dawn(psn exclusive at that time). Then I found out about god of war series and pretty much got addicted to all psn has to offer including the trophy system. 4 years later I've got 50/50 on good games and absolute junk of games because I got the money and it's my choise in the end. I wish I had skills like for example Floriis but those are not my kind of games, I just get frustrated way too quickly on these <1% UR plats. When it comes to zj the ball.. There's a difference in junk and these breakthrough games. My name is mayo is just a free stupid platinum but atleast the devs added a bunch of humor in it. These new "games" are just something else? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post djb5f Posted August 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 23, 2021 28 minutes ago, AJ_-_808 said: even though they didnt enjoy a fair number of what they were playing. Didn’t enjoy what they were playing/doing is a really low bar and I think impacts nearly every trophy hunter. I am referring to awful waste of times like over the top grinds or boosting sessions where you are trading kills or doing some other manufactured requirement and not really enjoying multiplayer. I’ve seen many people who see nothing ironic about calling others out for wasting time playing silly mini-games in the Breakthrough series yet they spend 40+ hours doing the same, monotonous level over and over and over again to level up in Max Payne 3! Is one any better than the other? Both are a questionable use of time for sure but at least you get a little more variety in the Breakthrough games lol. There is the money argument, sure. But at $0.99 each, most could buy a 100 of these and not notice a financial impact. Many of these same people ridiculing the buying of these games have backlogs of dozens if not hundreds of games (that they paid a lot more $$ for) that they will never get around to playing. So people waste money all the time, including most here so hard to attack others for spending. These Breakthrough games are not predatory, that word gets thrown out way too easily. You can argue they are exploitative. But it is really the whole trophy system that is exploitative more so than any game. So many are obsessive compulsive and feel the need to get 100%, climb leaderboards, etc. It is a recipe for disaster. I am not arguing in favor of the Breakthrough mini-games. I think the hypocrisy of many trophy hunters arguing they are a waste of time/money gets lost. As they are often the ones who have lost so much time doing an inane, monotonous grind for a single trophy or spending money on a huge backlog they could never possibly play through. My 99 cents… 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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