Exponential Growth of Easy & Fast Plats

[FilmFanatic]

10 hours ago, AJ_Radio said:

How the fuck are we talking about Steam sales and indie games faring on other platforms? We've gone completely off course from trophies, which is what this topic was supposed to be about.

Good point, just how did this thread get off-topic? It definitely wasn’t a user who likes to come into a thread about Topic A and instead post about Topic B.

 

On 26/09/2021 at 8:30 PM, AJ_Radio said:

I get where you're coming from, but the fact is these throwaway games are flooding the store. Another problem is indie developers fare far better on Steam because there is a far bigger audience for indie games on that platform. Sony these past couple years has actively discouraged indie developers from releasing their products onto the PS4/PS5. Steam is far more profitable, therefore it makes more logical sense from a business standpoint to release indies on there.

On 26/09/2021 at 8:30 PM, AJ_Radio said:

The best platform is Steam, particularly for these indie developers like I said already. A lot of game developers have gone out of business, but unfortunately that's always how the gaming industry has been.

 

 

On 27/09/2021 at 10:17 AM, AJ_Radio said:

Steam was the platform that made indies a thing in the first place.

[AJ_Radio]

2 hours ago, FilmFanatic said:

Good point, just how did this thread get off-topic? It definitely wasn’t a user who likes to come into a thread about Topic A and instead post about Topic B.

 

 

 

The initial point of the OP is regarding easy and exponential platinums. It is completely true though that most of the time, trophy lists are copied directly from the achievement lists on Steam. Rogue Legacy and Shovel Knight share essentially the same lists on Steam for the most part. For games I love, I have bought them a second time on Steam.

 

I fully understand why indies generally do better on Switch and Steam. But that isn't really relatable to this topic.

[Jelly Soup]

On 9/26/2021 at 2:17 PM, AJ_Radio said:

So ultimately, everyone has lower attention spans. 
 

Anything that takes a bit too much effort is automatically skipped, which is what most casuals do.

 

While this is a reasonable summary of the point I was making, I don't think it's completely fair to put it so simply out of hand. There are likely a percentage of gamers, hunters or otherwise, that seek out cheap and easy stuff for the purposes of achievement farming, but that doesn't account for everyone in the niche. As I said, there's a lot of media competition, time isn't infinite and people need to do normal human maintenance things. This is ignoring home and work needs. People are going to seek out something quick and easy to consume because of limited time to consume longer more detailed things. And developers/publishers know this so it's catered to. This is part of why I'm against those whole 'cheap platinum shaming' thing, it seems like a reasonable response to the increasing rigors of life for the average person.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Jelly Soup

[AJ_Radio]

4 hours ago, Jelly Soup said:

 

While this is a reasonable summary of the point I was making, I don't think it's completely fair to put it so simply out of hand. There are likely a percentage of gamers, hunters or otherwise, that seek out cheap and easy stuff for the purposes of achievement farming, but that doesn't account for everyone in the niche. As I said, there's a lot of media competition, time isn't infinite and people need to do normal human maintenance things. This is ignoring home and work needs. People are going to seek out something quick and easy to consume because of limited time to consume longer more detailed things. And developers/publishers know this so it's catered to. This is part of why I'm against those whole 'cheap platinum shaming' thing, it seems like a reasonable response to the increasing rigors of life for the average person.

 

Yeah, but what are you gaining out of it? Nobody cares if you're rank 100 worldwide, because at the end of the day we're doing this hobby for ourselves.

 

It's amusing to me because a majority of us are well in our 30s so at this point we're old enough to pick whatever games we want. I'm all for that. The general attitude here sounds like people would rather skip something like Mein Leben in Wolfenstein II, or won't bother to do much of anything in The Binding of Isaac Re-birth.

 

Ultimately, this is merely a reflection of the culture we live in. I encountered tons of people on Facebook who did nothing more than to share a post, because they were too lazy to do their own research. As far as trophy hunting is concerned, the community has drastically changed in the past five - six years which I feel is part of the OP Unknown_v2_0 was trying to get at.

 

I fully understand the rigors of real life. We aren't kids anymore, I have plenty of life responsibilities outside of gaming and leisure time, sometimes I can't trophy hunt or play games at all for a few days because of work. But I never felt the need to play cheap platinums, because that was my choice and probably yours as well.

 

If people feel miserable because they're playing cheap platinum games to chase the leaderboards, then they should stop. It's one thing to play these games, it's another thing entirely to outright defend them and attack anybody who thinks they're diluting the purpose of trophies. I have gotten this countless times, and I know you're read some of those posts.

 

Generally, I'm more impressed by people who post their record speedruns on YouTube, Twitch.tv or wherever. But outside of the niche community of speedrunners, very few people care. It's the same with trophy hunting. There are achievement hunters on Steam as well, who don't cheat or use exploits that automatically hand them achievements. But like this community, they are a small minority.

 

People seek out dopamine hits on Instagram and TikTok, not too much different from seeking out something quick and easy in regards to trophies because that is the world we live in now. I've made it a point many times that ZJ the Ball is basically a cheap marketing tactic for easy trophies. I can guarantee if that had difficult trophies or more time consuming trophies, the playerbase who hunt trophies would be significantly less. It's not a new game either, the game is over a decade old and I just find it funny that it has a new audience simply because of the easy trophies.

 

Am I going against people who are playing that once or twice? No. My point was they are diluting trophies, especially when these cheap platinum games come with several stacks. Now with the PS5 out it's even easier to stack these games. And every time I try to make a negative opinion, or make a point that these games aren't worthwhile, I get attacked for it. Usually by the same people.

 

Playing these games simply because we're being overworked in our lives, especially for middle age individuals, really isn't all that great of a argument.

[Unknown_v2_0]

3 hours ago, AJ_Radio said:

 

 

If people feel miserable because they're playing cheap platinum games to chase the leaderboards, then they should stop.

 

This was a main point of my post. I personally was miserable and people shouldn't prioritize farming trophies over their educations, jobs etc. If you are miserable please stop and realize where trophies are headed in terms of getting fast plats and such. Even if you climb the leaderboard now once you stop you can quickly be overtaken in a few years most likely in what? a day at that point? Like are you just doing it to post on social media or brag about your plat count? Don't make gaming into a job you are paying to have. If it is truly fun for you then that is fine, maybe its relaxing idk. I just want to spread some awareness incase people aren't realizing twhat they are doing with their money and time. Game on your own terms.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Unknown_v2_0

[AJ_Radio]

2 hours ago, Unknown_v2_0 said:

 

This was a main point of my post. I personally was miserable and people shouldn't prioritize farming trophies over their educations, jobs etc. If you are miserable please stop and realize where trophies are headed in terms of getting fast plats and such. Even if you climb the leaderboard now once you stop you can quickly be overtaken in a few years most likely in what? a day at that point? Like are you just doing it to post on social media or brag about your plat count? Don't make gaming into a job you are paying to have. If it is truly fun for you then that is fine, maybe its relaxing idk. I just want to spread some awareness incase people aren't realizing twhat they are doing with their money and time. Game on your own terms.

 

A lot of us have some throwaway games, that's perfectly fine. But a majority of what the top leaderboards is aiming for aren't even games half the time, if that. I didn't get anything out of stacking Sound Shapes six times, it just happened and I was going, "Was this really worth the time and money spent on trophies alone?".

 

This is one thing that I really respected Carlos (CMH777) for on his YouTube channel. I was subscribed to him for years, found his commentary entertaining and he made some decent videos with a good sense of humor. I didn't like how he handled some things, particularly some of the drama that he basically started, but he was spot on with his analysis on easy games. I didn't see eye to eye with him on some things however. Shame that he left, but in place of his absence I've recently discovered some YouTube trophy hunters like LudiXP, Platchums, Platinumbro7 and IliyaKunin. All worth watching and listening to.

 

Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice and Concrete Genie are two games I can think of that are short platinums, take only a few hours to finish, but are completely worthwhile. I don't know if I will ever get Hellblade because that is personally not my cup of tea, but still. Play some point and click games. I played a game called Broken Age 5: The Serpent's Curse a few months ago and really enjoyed it.

 

If I played all these throwaway games, I would of already quit trophy hunting.

[You]

Well I have to say that this was a very interesting read and interesting watch of youtube.

 

A question for

@Unknown_v2_0

 

While playing, was there ever a time much earlier in your game playing experience when you thought to yourself, why am I doing this?
I'm old enough to remember a time when trophies didn't exist but even I myself have stacked platinums.
For me I might be playing a game in Japanese, sold it and then get the western released some months/years later and then play it again.

On your list I found

 

 FoxyLand 2 • AS
All 20 Trophies
7th February 2020 • Platinum in 40 minutes, 59 seconds

 

I have not played the game but I looked on youtube just now, and it looks like a pretty decent platformer. Cute and well made.

Certainly something I would have enjoyed on my Commodore Amiga back in the day.

However also in that Friday of 2020, you went on to complete the game again two more times in the same afternoon, and then again the next day.

Now my stacked platinums are almost exclusively 50+ hour Warriors stacks, which I might play a year or two later.

I am just wondering what went through your mind, as you played the same game, three times in a row. I personally would be thinking, man, what am I doing, why don't I just play this game again next month, or so.

 

Trophy hunting is a very weird kind of hobby, it's basically a race that you joined at some point without realising it, and the race never has a finishing line, nor does it have many rules.
There's blatant legal cheating left right and center. Everyone does it. Signing up to Playstation stores all over the world despite only living in one. Getting a family member to play a game for you, looking at a guide on the Internet to look out for missable trophies, in many cases spoiling the experience for yourself but saving yourself time.

 

Trophies and achievements are making all of us behave weirdly, I'm not innocent either. I remember back on PS3 playing the Japanese version of Yakuza 5 all weekend, and then afterwards feeling a bit sad because I didn't pop a single trophy. Although I am not addicted, even I at times, can feel that weird phychological pull that trophies give you.

Everybody at least in the top 2000 or so, they're chasing that leaderboard number or the satisfying noise of a trophy pop. It's a sore point to mention that around here these days, to suggest that these people have a trophy hunting addiction and that they potentially have some kind of problem.

 

Trophies are a form of money currency. In the real world, if you can get a high paid job, or a high paid job that requires very little effort, you'd aim for those jobs right?
Easy platinums are no different, and just in the real world, if you pump more into the system using quantitive easing, having more trophies just reduces the overall value
Why would anyone spent 2 days playing Yakuza 5 and earning nothing, when they can spent 2 minutes getting an entire platinum. If your goal becomes trophies, you'll play just about anything to get fast and cheap.

 

Some people play one game and then pop an easy platinum every now and again, that's how it starts though.

I think Ratalaika gets a bad rap, sure, their games are easy and short, and cheap. Many of them are nice little games though.
Whether or not you stopped because you reached 3000 games, or you stopped because you saw the BreakThrough coming to market and just thought, meh I'm done, I don't really know.
Either way though, you can certainly pat yourself on the back that you didn't lower your standards and start playing shit games.

 

Trophy hunting is a weirdly selfish challenge anyway, everyone is too busy looking at their own stats to notice anyone else. At the time of writing this I noticed that Hakoom has dropped down to 3rd, when did that happen? Hakoom is arguably the most well known Trophy hunter since he was the first to be no1. Does anyone know who is in 2nd or 4th place, does anyone care? Does anyone care? If nobody cares about Hakoom anymore then they certainly aren't going to care about your trophy list, nobody is trying to get the top of the leaderboard to be noticed right? If they are, well, they are certainly in for a big disappointment.

 

In this neverending race, the moment you stop, you get overtaken.

 

So in that respect nobody in the leaderboards ever wins.

 

At least for me I just care about having fun playing and games, and getting 100% on the games I love, whether it takes me 1 day or 1 year. No it doesn't affect me, however I do want to try and help people. Drug addicts or alcoholics, their addiction is bad their for your health, so of course you'd want to help them.

 

Trophy addicts however, it's a very new kind of problem, you just waste a lot of time and money, and technically they aren't doing any real damage to themselves, so we just accept it and instead, pointing out the issue, you're the one in the wrong. It's a moot point around here

 

I totally support these people and their right to play and do whatever they want. I honestly worry about where this is all going though and anyone with a slight amount of common sense should know that playing games ONLY for trophies, it isn't good long term.

It's a strange deal that both these devs and users are all in on, you won't be finding CJ The Ball on Nintendo Switch anytime soon though, of which the reasons for that are quite obvious.

[AJ_Radio]

Very well said @enaysoft. 
 

The Nintendo Switch doesn’t have an achievement system, therefore stuff like ZJ the Ball wouldn’t fly on there. 
 

I went and watched Unknown_V2’s video on the Mein Leben petition in Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus. I have to say that reducing the difficulty to satisfy a very niche group of trophy hunters while slapping the fact of people who got it legit isn’t the way to do it. Like 99% of petitions, that one got shot down rather quickly. 
 

Nowadays with the amount of help available on Youtube and elsewhere, there is no excuse for someone to complain Mein Leben just isn’t fair. That’s why I consider any of the Dark Souls games no more than a 4 - 5 out of 10 in difficulty. At this point in time there is basically a guide for any build possible in Dark Souls. So many people have played it, so for new players, they can pick from the thousands of guides available. The difficulty in the Dark Souls titles is massively overrated in my opinion. 
 

That just wasn’t the case in the old days of gaming. I can definitely believe Demon’s Souls being significantly harder back in 2009 - 2010 because of the lack of general help. Today there’s basically a guide for most anything for that game. The modern remake for the PS5 has countless guides for it. 
 

Point and clicks used to be hard, but the mainstream usage of the internet has basically made any sort of difficulty rather futile. I played some old point and clicks in my early childhood back in the 1990s, and I can definitely say they weren’t that easy. Today any moron can finish a point and click in a couple short hours. 
 

In regards to the EZ platinums, the bar has been set so low that any idiot can reach 100 platinums in less than a few weeks, provided they have a chunk of cash readily available. That isn’t an accomplishment. 
 

I would gladly prefer the Wolfenstein II platinum over having 100 Breakthrough titles.

[Unknown_v2_0]

On 10/15/2021 at 11:52 PM, enaysoft said:

 

While playing, was there ever a time much earlier in your game playing experience when you thought to yourself, why am I doing this?
I'm old enough to remember a time when trophies didn't exist but even I myself have stacked platinums.
For me I might be playing a game in Japanese, sold it and then get the western released some months/years later and then play it again.

On your list I found

 

 FoxyLand 2 • AS
All 20 Trophies
7th February 2020 • Platinum in 40 minutes, 59 seconds

 

I have not played the game but I looked on youtube just now, and it looks like a pretty decent platformer. Cute and well made.

Certainly something I would have enjoyed on my Commodore Amiga back in the day.

However also in that Friday of 2020, you went on to complete the game again two more times in the same afternoon, and then again the next day.

Now my stacked platinums are almost exclusively 50+ hour Warriors stacks, which I might play a year or two later.

I am just wondering what went through your mind, as you played the same game, three times in a row. I personally would be thinking, man, what am I doing, why don't I just play this game again next month, or so.

 

Trophy hunting is a very weird kind of hobby, it's basically a race that you joined at some point without realising it, and the race never has a finishing line, nor does it have many rules.
There's blatant legal cheating left right and center. Everyone does it. Signing up to Playstation stores all over the world despite only living in one. Getting a family member to play a game for you, looking at a guide on the Internet to look out for missable trophies, in many cases spoiling the experience for yourself but saving yourself time.

 

Trophies and achievements are making all of us behave weirdly, I'm not innocent either. I remember back on PS3 playing the Japanese version of Yakuza 5 all weekend, and then afterwards feeling a bit sad because I didn't pop a single trophy. Although I am not addicted, even I at times, can feel that weird phychological pull that trophies give you.

Everybody at least in the top 2000 or so, they're chasing that leaderboard number or the satisfying noise of a trophy pop. It's a sore point to mention that around here these days, to suggest that these people have a trophy hunting addiction and that they potentially have some kind of problem.

 

Trophies are a form of money currency. In the real world, if you can get a high paid job, or a high paid job that requires very little effort, you'd aim for those jobs right?
Easy platinums are no different, and just in the real world, if you pump more into the system using quantitive easing, having more trophies just reduces the overall value
Why would anyone spent 2 days playing Yakuza 5 and earning nothing, when they can spent 2 minutes getting an entire platinum. If your goal becomes trophies, you'll play just about anything to get fast and cheap.

 

Some people play one game and then pop an easy platinum every now and again, that's how it starts though.

I think Ratalaika gets a bad rap, sure, their games are easy and short, and cheap. Many of them are nice little games though.
Whether or not you stopped because you reached 3000 games, or you stopped because you saw the BreakThrough coming to market and just thought, meh I'm done, I don't really know.
Either way though, you can certainly pat yourself on the back that you didn't lower your standards and start playing shit games.

 

Trophy hunting is a weirdly selfish challenge anyway, everyone is too busy looking at their own stats to notice anyone else. At the time of writing this I noticed that Hakoom has dropped down to 3rd, when did that happen? Hakoom is arguably the most well known Trophy hunter since he was the first to be no1. Does anyone know who is in 2nd or 4th place, does anyone care? Does anyone care? If nobody cares about Hakoom anymore then they certainly aren't going to care about your trophy list, nobody is trying to get the top of the leaderboard to be noticed right? If they are, well, they are certainly in for a big disappointment.

 

In this neverending race, the moment you stop, you get overtaken.

 

So in that respect nobody in the leaderboards ever wins.

 

At least for me I just care about having fun playing and games, and getting 100% on the games I love, whether it takes me 1 day or 1 year. No it doesn't affect me, however I do want to try and help people. Drug addicts or alcoholics, their addiction is bad their for your health, so of course you'd want to help them.

 

Trophy addicts however, it's a very new kind of problem, you just waste a lot of time and money, and technically they aren't doing any real damage to themselves, so we just accept it and instead, pointing out the issue, you're the one in the wrong. It's a moot point around here

 

I totally support these people and their right to play and do whatever they want. I honestly worry about where this is all going though and anyone with a slight amount of common sense should know that playing games ONLY for trophies, it isn't good long term.

It's a strange deal that both these devs and users are all in on, you won't be finding CJ The Ball on Nintendo Switch anytime soon though, of which the reasons for that are quite obvious.

 

All your points basically 'on point' with what I am trying to do with the V2 Crew and why I started it. I could write a novel answering and replying to your post lol. I remember gaming before trophies and I am trying to get back to that currently. Enjoying games for games and not just playing trophy lists.  I am recording a series of videos detailing why I quit and lessons I think others can take away from it. In regards to the Foxyland 2... yeah I really hated paying the same games 8 times and some might be fun but the trophy lists didn't even have you finishing it so once platted I would move on sadly. Your points of leaderboard are true... once you stop you are overtaken. I question too how many even care anymore about hakoom and anyone up there really...You need to game for yourself, once you start leaderboard chasing you are trapped on a hamster wheel, spending your time and money on questionable experiences. I had tried to quit for 3 years before I succeeded. lots of lost cost fallacy, trying to stay near the top so I could send a message (turned out to be very hypocritical though), and well its what i knew. Trophies really changed the way many of us gamed. They definitely warped me gaming and even life wise. I am not saying they are inheritently bad but they can be. I agree with you that many are addicted and @AJ_Radio is right in that even things like P&Cs we just copy guides and use youtube to get through stuff ASAP to churn through games.

 

One of the reasons I moved to Switch was to get away from trophies. I also missed a ton of games  since i was only trophy farming for so long.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Unknown_v2_0

[You]

Thanks for the reply Unknown

You are now the 6th person who has suffered from this that I have spoken too, although you're definitely the highest ranking person.
Many thanks for taking the time to not only reply but make your youtube video too.

 

A few of my friends I know in real life have suffered from this too and went on a trophy binge to then stop later, regret it and not fully understand they were addicted.
Although I have never played games just for trophies, I too suffer from trophies but in a different way. I honestly do not like the psychological pull these things have on us.
It makes us behave in strange ways and I do worry about the future, because it's not just trophies or achievements, whether you're trying to get views on a youtube video, thumbs up on a twitter post, going viral on the Internet, the buzz surrounding them all, it's all the same.

Regarding games I think this phenomenon first appeared in 1998 and then the movement we know of now, started in 2009.

In 1998 Metal Gear Solid was released on the Playstation and one of the bosses could "read your mind", most people are familar with this.
But the guy could read your memory card for other Konami game save data and say stuff like "Oooh I see you like playing music" if you had save data for one of Konami's music games.
This was as far as I can tell the first time the 4th wall had been broken in a game. There were also other cool stuff in MGS but I won't spoil that either.

Anyway, this was the first time playing a game interacted with something outside of the game.

Then in 2009 we reached rock bottom because a game called FarmVille would change the world of gaming forever, and for the worse.

In FarmVille you'd do coop with people outside of the game, and it would message your friends playing, you could interact with each other's data outside of the game.
It was a phenomenon but it also started the craze of doing stuff outside of the game and it alerted your facebook friends, and then people were playing the game for each other, annoying each other with constant updates and spamming etc. Basically it started the craze of playing the game for reasons that sometimes weren't even related to the game. Some people had got addicted to FarmVille and doing it as a chore, because they had started and they couldn't stop, or they were addicted, or they were doing it for friends/reasons that weren't even in the game.

 

Of course, this is kind of ignoring the fact that XBox360 had achievements way back in 2006, but back then these games had points, and were often just a thing that stored on your hardrive since back then many people hadn't really got the Internet online to play games yet. However mid 2000s, games you played all started accumulating data in a central area, a bit like a localised memory card system.

 

In 2008 Sony also got on board with trophies and then our personal journies begin.

Along with things like Little Big Planet and faster more affordable Internet, playing online in the 2010s with games like Resident Evil 5, Little Big Planet and all the FPS on XBox, people were starting to share their gamer cards and participating in friendly challenges with each other. Working together and coop and competing in games, started to emerge in and also outside of the games. Grinding, boosting. Nobody knew what these words were until they came into the PS3.

 

The problem with both trophies and achievements is that the points are already set out. A bronze trophy is still the same value in 2008 as it is in 2021.

 

It's so sad that trophies are the way they are, a pretty fun thing to do with your friends is now just pay to win.

So for me in 2008 I had just moved to Japan and was a bit poor at the time so I did not have a lot of money, so when I played the then very new Yakuza 3, I spent over half a year on just this one game.
Fast forward to 2011 or so, playing the Japanese version of Yakuza 5 when it was brand new, I had to keep up looking up words, progress was slow. But I felt like I wanted to move faster, so maybe I would start skipping stuff, I kinda knew what was going on, but playing the game was actually slowing me down. I almost thought hey, if I just skip all this dialogue I can get the game done faster.
Trophies were starting to make me want to play games for enjoyment as well as trophies, but even though I was really enjoying the game I wanted the game to be shorter. Final Fantasy VII in 1997 I wanted that game to last forever, but in Yakuza 5, a 150 hour game I was thinking, hmm I wish it was shorter. Actually wishing that a great game be cut back. That was an odd feeling.

 

On a game once, I got 6 or 7 trophy pops in a row. they just kept popping, and I kept thinking wow, another one! and another one! I was laughing and in joy, and I can honestly say wow I was getting such a buzz, like a jackpot in a casino.

 

I can easily see why people play these dollar games that take 10 minutes to complete, the rush you get when the trophy pops must be awesome. If I didn't have the willpower to say no and remember the reason I am playing games, I could quite easily get sucked in too, like so many people do. These EZPZ games, the games are utter shite, but they are having lots of fun getting those pop rushes. For that I can understand why people buy those game.

 

But it's a race, where everyone starting at the beginning does a slow walk, then a brisk walk, then you start to run, then it's a skateboard, a bicycle, a motorbike, a car, a train, a plane etc. Everyone is getting faster and faster, but people joining the race later, they start in the bicycle, and then start in a car. Everyone at the front are speeding ahead in their super charged rockets, but new users are in fast trains right from the start. Everyone is going faster than ever before but many people are not even experiencing the ride. And never a finishing line in sight.

 

Due to trophies, meant I never bought a Nintendo Switch, or a WiiU, or an XBox, despite wanting one, in a way weird I am now somehow locked into the Playstation ecosystem like a prisoner. It seems like I may as well continue since I have been playing games since 2008, I want to stop, but also I am very satisfied playing games and never want to stop, why would I? I am having fun, I love looking back at my trophy list and thinking about to all the fun I had on all these games. I still have a backlog that could last me decades.
I do resent that trophies have affected how I play games. I recently played Dead Rising, a game that I absolutely love, it is my GOTY, I still think about playing it even today, but I don't, because I have the platinum. I almost want to play it again on a separate account, but then I think oh, but all those trophies are going to waste. What happened to playing games, just for fun? Like in the good old days. Despite buying it in 2018 and despite Dead Rising 2 being my favourite game on PS3 (hence my avatar) I was put off playing it because of the 7 day survivor trophy as that requires you to play the game for 14 hours non stop without saving.

In the end a few weeks ago I just thought fuck it, the game looks awesome, it's a solid 60fps I just want to play it, and then in the end I went for the trophy anyway and it ended up being my favourite part of the entire game, lots of excitement and tension. Having a family now, the chance of me having 14 hours to play a game, always put me off, but I feel annoyed that I was depriving myself of a fun experience, just because of trophies.

 

I do wish for a time where I could play games without thinking, having to avoid games because said game, the servers are no longer on so it's unachievable platinum. Or avoiding a game because it has shitty online trophies. Best game in the world could be released tomorrow but if I start playing it in 2031 and I can't get platinum anymore due to the servers being closed, well then, it looks like I won't be starting to play "Best game in the world" for such a stupid reason.

 

My friend AJ_Radio recently played Streets Of Rage 4 and he said he loved it, but then one trophy right at the end of the DLC required 20 hours of gaming, I said to not do it all in one go. He did it anyway, which is fine, but since it likely soured his view of the game, he probably won't play the game ever again, because of that one trophy. Why did that trophy have to exist? Why did he have to do the trophy all in one go? He is also having to play more PS3 games than usual due to things like server closures, like me his next choice of game is often related to trophies.

 

This is what trophies are doing to all of us. Even if we aren't trophy addicts, it still can affect our behaviour in some way, in or out of the game.

Trophies are making us play games in ways we never used too, I do miss the days when we just played games for the challenge, or to see the ending. But if the challenge was shit, it was fine to just give up and move onto the next game, without some sort of record existing, that 65% trophy list, looking at you every day saying "Oh you haven't finished me yet"

What happened to those days eh? Of course they still exist, but somehow we few cannot return. We're all still affected in some ways, even if we don't realise it.

 

I wonder how many other people in the top 1000 or so will suddenly think to themselves, wait what am I doing here? I can't see many of the guys at the top having fun right now. They all have to play all of the shit games that come out on release, if you don't play CJ The Ball Levels 11, 12 and 13, all your rivals will, and then you're done a platinum, just not playing it yourself to break even.

 

I am happy you found happiness in gaming else on the Nintendo Switch, maybe one day I might join you there

Edited October 19, 2021 by enaysoft

[AJ_Radio]

39 minutes ago, enaysoft said:

snip

 

This is a pretty lengthy response to break down, but I'll do my best to cut it up into sections that I feel are notably important.

 

40 minutes ago, enaysoft said:

A few of my friends I know in real life have suffered from this too and went on a trophy binge to then stop later, regret it and not fully understand they were addicted.

Although I have never played games just for trophies, I too suffer from trophies but in a different way. I honestly do not like the psychological pull these things have on us.
It makes us behave in strange ways and I do worry about the future, because it's not just trophies or achievements, whether you're trying to get views on a youtube video, thumbs up on a twitter post, going viral on the Internet, the buzz surrounding them all, it's all the same.

Regarding games I think this phenomenon first appeared in 1998 and then the movement we know of now, started in 2009.

 

The internet back in 1998 was so primitive there was hardly anybody trying to get hits. Video games back then certainly didn't hold your hand. Goldeneye 007, still one of my favorite shooters of all time, had its moments of frustrations and mishaps.

 

I see this trend and direction to be like cigarette smoking and getting high on heroine/cocaine. Before computers and technology, older generations did these drugs to get high and to get their dopamine rush. Trophies, and likewise getting views on a YouTube video, thumbs up on a Twitter post, getting 1000 upvotes on a Reddit post... have all likely replaced the dopamine rush that was drugs. Unfortunately, in recent times new drugs have popped up that have made cocaine, cigarettes and heroin rather tame, almost obsolete. The drug culture has changed a lot in the past 10 - 15 years, which has coincidentally happened right when the internet became mainstream.

 

Getting a platinum trophy in just a few short minutes I feel has a similar psychological effect to cigarettes. The only reason anybody smokes is to get their nicotine addiction satisfied. For trophies, they're a dopamine hit much like having a post of yours on Twitter get +1000 thumbs up and shares.

 

47 minutes ago, enaysoft said:

Then in 2009 we reached rock bottom because a game called FarmVille would change the world of gaming forever, and for the worse.

In FarmVille you'd do coop with people outside of the game, and it would message your friends playing, you could interact with each other's data outside of the game.
It was a phenomenon but it also started the craze of doing stuff outside of the game and it alerted your facebook friends, and then people were playing the game for each other, annoying each other with constant updates and spamming etc. Basically it started the craze of playing the game for reasons that sometimes weren't even related to the game. Some people had got addicted to FarmVille and doing it as a chore, because they had started and they couldn't stop, or they were addicted, or they were doing it for friends/reasons that weren't even in the game.

 

I remember this well. Some of my Facebook friends who were never into gaming beforehand were suddenly FarmVille addicts.

 

Since then we have seen this same effect on Overwatch, Fortnite and a number of other online games.

 

49 minutes ago, enaysoft said:

But it's a race, where everyone starting at the beginning does a slow walk, then a brisk walk, then you start to run, then it's a skateboard, a bicycle, a motorbike, a car, a train, a plane etc. Everyone is getting faster and faster, but people joining the race later, they start in the bicycle, and then start in a car. Everyone at the front are speeding ahead in their super charged rockets, but new users are in fast trains right from the start. Everyone is going faster than ever before but many people are not even experiencing the ride. And never a finishing line in sight.

 

You just described the life of Hakoom and Ikemenzi in a nutshell. Does anybody give a flying fuck about Ikemenzi? I sure as hell don't, even if he was blasted on Twitter not too long ago for playing shit games.

 

51 minutes ago, enaysoft said:

My friend AJ_Radio recently played Streets Of Rage 4 and he said he loved it, but then one trophy right at the end of the DLC required 20 hours of gaming, I said to not do it all in one go. He did it anyway, which is fine, but since it likely soured his view of the game, he probably won't play the game ever again, because of that one trophy. Why did that trophy have to exist? Why did he have to do the trophy all in one go? He is also having to play more PS3 games than usual due to things like server closures, like me his next choice of game is often related to trophies.

 

I actually do enjoy the game even if I had to spend over 20 hours getting that one trophy. Unfortunately playing with a second controller or playing online with somebody doesn't seem to speed up the trophy. You're basically sharing your progress with that second character. It was definitely faster for me to get one character done at a time.

 

As far as stuff like Max Payne 3 is concerned, sure the online grind was a bit tedious (over 30 hours to finish the multiplayer) but in the end I felt it was worth it. Even without trophies, Max Payne 3 was a game I wanted to play for a long time, but the server shutdown finally convinced me to go and grab it. Just like I did with Driveclub and PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale beforehand.

 

54 minutes ago, enaysoft said:

Trophies are making us play games in ways we never used too, I do miss the days when we just played games for the challenge, or to see the ending. But if the challenge was shit, it was fine to just give up and move onto the next game, without some sort of record existing, that 65% trophy list, looking at you every day saying "Oh you haven't finished me yet"

What happened to those days eh? Of course they still exist, but somehow we few cannot return. We're all still affected in some ways, even if we don't realise it.

 

Unfortunately this stems beyond just trophies and achievements. It's a culture we live in now where we are playing something to impress someone, or we're playing this game because everybody else is playing it.

 

Runescape was the first game I played in my lifetime that tracked everything you did. Stats, quests, achievements, win/loss records. You make an account that starts off fresh, then you venture out into the online world leveling up skills, completing quests, taking part in minigames. All of which far predated trophies. I remember at one point in 2006 I told myself "I want to get 99 Fletching", and I eventually did.

 

Runescape was basically a forerunner in keeping records and stats online, and I eventually became an addict. World of Warcraft implemented their own achievement hunting system in 2008 when WOTLK (Wrath of the Lich King) was released, and like I did with Runescape, I did achievements just because.

[Nelson_]

On 10/1/2021 at 0:15 PM, ladynadiad said:

 

Steam's store really isn't much better for navigation and finding new games. But the overall biggest issue is what I pointed out in my earlier post: gaming is oversaturated in general.  So many games are being released that it's very hard to get word out about any one game any longer.  It used to be that you could just regularly check the list of new releases and take a closer look at what looks interesting, but that's hard to do with 100+ games coming out most weeks. I can still look through new releases on PSN, but on Steam it's just too overwhelming now.

 

Remember for Sony just seriously started basically at January 2021, give it some more time as trophies do sell shovelware (analyzed the pattern this whole 2021)

and almost sure that on October 2022 we are exactly like Steam if the pace does follow up.

[ladynadiad]

13 hours ago, Nelson_ said:

 

Remember for Sony just seriously started basically at January 2021, give it some more time as trophies do sell shovelware (analyzed the pattern this whole 2021)

and almost sure that on October 2022 we are exactly like Steam if the pace does follow up.

 

Doubtful Sony will ever be able to match Steam for pure amount of crap.  Sony still has some quality control and doesn't allow hentai games to be sold on its platform.  The hentai games alone make up a decent sized chunk of Steam's shovelware.  Also keep in mind that the 100+ new PC releases a day has been going on for years now and was already an issue before achievement spam games became a thing.  PSN only has just under 14k games total and that's with all the numerous stacks of the same game.  As of March 2021 per stats I could find Steam has over 50k games and they have very few stacks. 

 

And to give an idea of just the sheer amount of new releases Steam gets, while I was looking for those stats for March 2021 I also found stats indicating that just under two years before that in April 2019 that Steam just hit 30k games.  So in just short of 2 years Steam got more new games than PSN has among all its platforms including stacks since the trophy system was first introduced.

 

That alone shows that Sony still has some quality control,  Keep in mind that Sony still requires each game get an ESRB (or similar) rating to be sold on PSN because they refuse to sell any games with an AO (or equivalent) rating.  That factor alone serves as a measure of quality control since it takes time and costs money to get a game rated.

[Nelson_]

2 minutes ago, ladynadiad said:

 

Doubtful Sony will ever be able to match Steam for pure amount of crap.  Sony still has some quality control and doesn't allow hentai games to be sold on its platform.  The hentai games alone make up a decent sized chunk of Steam's shovelware.  Also keep in mind that the 100+ new PC releases a day has been going on for years now and was already an issue before achievement spam games became a thing.  PSN only has just under 14k games total and that's with all the numerous stacks of the same game.  As of March 2021 per stats I could find Steam has over 50k games and they have very few stacks. 

 

And to give an idea of just the sheer amount of new releases Steam gets, while I was looking for those stats for March 2021 I also found stats indicating that just under two years before that in April 2019 that Steam just hit 30k games.  So in just short of 2 years Steam got more new games than PSN has among all its platforms including stacks since the trophy system was first introduced.

 

That alone shows that Sony still has some quality control,  Keep in mind that Sony still requires each game get an ESRB (or similar) rating to be sold on PSN because they refuse to sell any games with an AO (or equivalent) rating.  That factor alone serves as a measure of quality control since it takes time and costs money to get a game rated.

 

Im going with very low expectations on Sony quality control as 2021 have proven to be quite an year unlike any other, it's rather risky to be optimistic with it right now, so far im only seeing it getting worse with little hope for anything to change. Let's hope they can prove me wrong next year.

[LC-Fraggers]

I don't really get where you'd draw the line on this one. When is an easy platinum too easy? When is it too fast? When it takes 10 hours? 5? 1? 30 minutes? 30 seconds?

 

Are you abusing easy plats at anything below a 4/10 difficulty? Or a 5 or 6? Is there a specific level of work that needs to go into getting a platinum trophy that we can quantify and say "Yep, they sure earned that one?".

This seems like an impossible problem to really resolve, except in hypothetical hindsight. I was on the X360 before this. Ten years ago, everybody had this exact attitude about games like Terminator Salvation, Avatar, Hannah Montana, etc. They were the lowest level you could sink to in search of GS. Now they're not but only because the bottom of the barrel has dropped out. Five years from now, are we going to be venerating the good old days of ZJ the Ball when they're selling you games that unlock the platinum just for starting a new game? 

 

There's no endgame to this or universal moral standard. If you only completed 7/10s, there'd be somebody that looked down on you for not platting 8s. Like I've said before, I see gaming and climbing the leaderboards as two separate hobbies. Occasionally they cross over but I'm not playing Zippy the Circle because I love gaming, just like I'm not playing Cuphead because I think it's a fast route up the leaderboards. There are games to savour and enjoy and there's... software for ranking up. Don't confuse the two and you'll be a lot happier.

[DaivRules]

44 minutes ago, ladynadiad said:

That alone shows that Sony still has some quality control,  Keep in mind that Sony still requires each game get an ESRB (or similar) rating to be sold on PSN because they refuse to sell any games with an AO (or equivalent) rating.  That factor alone serves as a measure of quality control since it takes time and costs money to get a game rated.

You keep saying Quality Control. Quality Control is checking to see if something breaks when using it in a normal fashion. 
 

What you’re actually referring to Content Curation. Sony still curates the content it allows on its platform. Steam does not. Nor does steam offer any kind of quality control for games released in a broken state. 

[AJ_Radio]

22 minutes ago, LC-Fraggers said:

I don't really get where you'd draw the line on this one. When is an easy platinum too easy? When is it too fast? When it takes 10 hours? 5? 1? 30 minutes? 30 seconds?

 

Are you abusing easy plats at anything below a 4/10 difficulty? Or a 5 or 6? Is there a specific level of work that needs to go into getting a platinum trophy that we can quantify and say "Yep, they sure earned that one?".

This seems like an impossible problem to really resolve, except in hypothetical hindsight. I was on the X360 before this. Ten years ago, everybody had this exact attitude about games like Terminator Salvation, Avatar, Hannah Montana, etc. They were the lowest level you could sink to in search of GS. Now they're not but only because the bottom of the barrel has dropped out. Five years from now, are we going to be venerating the good old days of ZJ the Ball when they're selling you games that unlock the platinum just for starting a new game? 

 

There's no endgame to this or universal moral standard. If you only completed 7/10s, there'd be somebody that looked down on you for not platting 8s. Like I've said before, I see gaming and climbing the leaderboards as two separate hobbies. Occasionally they cross over but I'm not playing Zippy the Circle because I love gaming, just like I'm not playing Cuphead because I think it's a fast route up the leaderboards. There are games to savour and enjoy and there's... software for ranking up. Don't confuse the two and you'll be a lot happier.

 

Unknown stopped trophy hunting last year. He got tired of chasing the leaderboards, and I respect him as a person because he has actually gone out and posted videos on the subject.

 

Chasing the leaderboards is something you will never win at, as enaysoft perfectly described. Cuphead is an interesting one, where somebody noted you can get those trophies quick and easy, but Hollow Knight is a much better example because of the invincibility glitch that allows you to easily bypass the boss rush. I understood why people were angry about that. Celeste is a platformer that allows you to enable cheats to earn the trophies, if that weren't the case then it would be the equivalent of Super Meat Boy and other hard platformers.

 

As someone who has a bunch of easy games such as yourself, chasing the leaderboards is a slippery slope. If that's what you want to do, by all means go for it. I had this idea too for a while, then I stacked Sound Shapes six times and I realized that it just wasn't worth it for me.

 

There are people better than me. Danny_Johansen and Floriiss are living proof. But I think we can both admit that people in the top 2000 have a real trophy addiction. These days I occasionally like to play on Steam and play some stuff off of GOG.com to break up the flow of trophy hunting. I don't do any achievement hunting on those platforms, I just play those games on there purely to have fun.

[LC-Fraggers]

1 minute ago, AJ_Radio said:

 

Unknown stopped trophy hunting last year. He got tired of chasing the leaderboards, and I respect him as a person because he has actually gone out and posted videos on the subject.

 

Chasing the leaderboards is something you will never win at, as enaysoft perfectly described. Cuphead is an interesting one, where somebody noted you can get those trophies quick and easy, but Hollow Knight is a much better example because of the invincibility glitch that allows you to easily bypass the boss rush. I understood why people were angry about that. Celeste is a platformer that allows you to enable cheats to earn the trophies, if that weren't the case then it would be the equivalent of Super Meat Boy and other hard platformers.

 

As someone who has a bunch of easy games such as yourself, chasing the leaderboards is a slippery slope. If that's what you want to do, by all means go for it. I had this idea too for a while, then I stacked Sound Shapes six times and I realized that it just wasn't worth it for me.

 

There are people better than me. Danny_Johansen and Floriiss are living proof. But I think we can both admit that people in the top 2000 have a real trophy addiction. These days I occasionally like to play on Steam and play some stuff off of GOG.com to break up the flow of trophy hunting. I don't do any achievement hunting on those platforms, I just play those games on there purely to have fun.

I appreciate the advice, although I've been there before. Back in the X360 days, I'd gotten to something stupid like the top 100 in the world. This was a good eight or so years ago, back before there was much in the way of what you'd call a fast completion today. I got to a point where it wasn't fun anymore and I stopped. If the same happens again, I'll stop then too. Enjoy the things you do until you don't, that's all of life.

As far as "winning" at chasing the leaderboards goes, I guess that really depends on what goals you set yourself. Do I ever think I'll be number one? Not a chance. But when I started my account 11 months ago, I thought it'd be cool to get into the top 10k in the world and top 1k in the country and I did that. My next goal is top 1k in the world and top 100 in the country. Both very achievable and "winnable" goals. 

I'm happy you managed to break away from something that was making you miserable. I did exactly the same. I just don't see how an influx of easy plats is a problem to anyone that isn't harmfully addicted to the trophy chasing process- which is a marked minority by any standard.

[ChiefMichigan]

It's clear that we're only going to see more easy and EZ PZ quick plats because there is a market and interest for them.

 

I didn't trophy hunt back in the day, but Spider-Man on Easy or Normal would probably be considered just about the easiest it gets back in the pre-PS4 days. Now, there are easily hundreds (if not more) easier trophy lists. Not only are easy trophy lists getting easier and easier, but platinums themselves are more common than ever. 

 

It seems like the trend began around 2016-2017 and has hit fever pitch from 2019 onward. 

 

To each their own. I probably spend too much time and money on EZ plats and trophies. But I don't region stack (again, to each their own) and there are plenty of games I won't touch even if they're cheap or have an EZPZ plat.

[AJ_Radio]

37 minutes ago, LC-Fraggers said:

I appreciate the advice, although I've been there before. Back in the X360 days, I'd gotten to something stupid like the top 100 in the world. This was a good eight or so years ago, back before there was much in the way of what you'd call a fast completion today. I got to a point where it wasn't fun anymore and I stopped. If the same happens again, I'll stop then too. Enjoy the things you do until you don't, that's all of life.

As far as "winning" at chasing the leaderboards goes, I guess that really depends on what goals you set yourself. Do I ever think I'll be number one? Not a chance. But when I started my account 11 months ago, I thought it'd be cool to get into the top 10k in the world and top 1k in the country and I did that. My next goal is top 1k in the world and top 100 in the country. Both very achievable and "winnable" goals. 

I'm happy you managed to break away from something that was making you miserable. I did exactly the same. I just don't see how an influx of easy plats is a problem to anyone that isn't harmfully addicted to the trophy chasing process- which is a marked minority by any standard.

 

I used to be in the high ranks on Runescape, I played the leaderboards for a while on that MMO. Maybe you never heard of the game, but it was a very popular MMO back in the 2000s, before trophy hunting even existed. I was a high school kid, didn't know much of anything back then other than to stay in school, work a part time job and do some gaming when I got home.

 

Then real life happened, I lost my job, I moved away to a new area and during that time I lost all interest in Runescape. I also played World of Warcraft for a time, hunted down those achievements that were introduced when Wrath of the Lich King was released.

 

You're still chasing the leaderboards, so I'll just repeat what I just said earlier. If it's something you want to do by all means go for it.

 

Understand your limits, don't overdo it. That's my advice to any younger person out there wanting to indulge in trophy hunting, or any hobby really. Don't overdo it. Don't make gaming into a job you are paying to have, as Unknown mentioned.

 

If you are a speedrunner and the hobby of speedrunning makes you miserable, then stop.

[ladynadiad]

1 hour ago, DaivRules said:

You keep saying Quality Control. Quality Control is checking to see if something breaks when using it in a normal fashion. 
 

What you’re actually referring to Content Curation. Sony still curates the content it allows on its platform. Steam does not. Nor does steam offer any kind of quality control for games released in a broken state. 

 

Yes, that is what I meant and people always have referred to it as quality control.  But that is indeed correct.  Steam does nothing to curate their content and leaves it to the users to do.  As far as I've heard anyone who pays the fee to get a game on Steam can have a game on Steam.  People here keep on complaining about the amount of shovelware on PSN, but it's nothing compared to Steam where you can buy a newly released game and find it doesn't run or has no working achievements.  On PSN you can buy a newly released game and be confident that it will run and the trophies are obtainable.  For all that people shit on Ratalaika all the time, I feel they deserve credit for doing good quality ports and not having any unobtainable trophies along with being decent to good quality games.  I truly think the majority of people who only play on PSN don't even have any clue what shovelware really looks like because the true shovelware doesn't see the light of day on PSN.

[Unknown_v2_0]

@enaysoft pretty much follows my view points exactly. Sums much up really nicely not only trophy wise but things like social media now a days and how these things are effecting us. I can personally relate a lot to that post. Missing the good old days lol. 

[You]

I think objectively we can never truly say when a game is too easy or not. It should all be about, "am I having fun?"

 

I can say though (and I am pretty sure everyone here can agree)

 

"Purchase a product that was meant to be a game"

 

It should be clearly obvious when a game has been released if it has been released in good intention or not.

If a game has been released and it takes 5 minutes to complete, has 12 golds and a platinum and several stacks etc.

It's clear nobody is buying these for the gameplay, the devs aren't making them for the experience either.

 

Sadly any person that do play these games is taking away any money (even if a dollar) from a genuine dev who is putting their heart and soul into making a proper product.

Not only does that real dev not get your money but the user in question is wasting their time playing a non product when they could be playing a good game.

 

I have stacked games but I might have first bought the Japanese version and then the English version many years later.
For me the product is different enough being in two languages, or I might have got a remaster, like RE5 and RE6. Those games are 60fps on PS4, I don't need to play the PS3 versions anymore. I now have a better product and an excuse to play the game again is an added bonus.

 

Many trophy problems could be solved if people were still playing games for fun, and no other reason. Like in the good old days.

 

I've heard many people on this very forum say they feel burned out after playing one game, so they play a few easy quick platinums every now and again.

 

Why are they even feeling like that? They are slowly being drawn in to being addicts. That's how it starts, you play a few, every now and again, and then the number slowly increases.

Then before you know it, you're doing one of two plats a day before you play your real games. It's honestly like getting addicted to alcohol or drugs, slowly but surely. And doing it a little bit in your head, you tell yourself you are in control, and it's ok to do a little bit.

Personally, if I bought a game that lasted 5 minutes, even if the game was incredible, I would want a refund.
This isn't like inserting a quarter into a game. A game should at least last hours, or have an incredibly good reason for replay value.

 

From me as a quick example, I love Mahjong, I have about 5 Mahjong games on Vita, all of them are 100% now.
Each took about 2-3 months and were a great thing to play eating Sandwiches on my lunch break at work. Played over the course of several years, when I was at work or travelling on a train.

I certainly played them because they had trophies, when I could have been playing Mahjong for free on my smartphone. So that's on me.

 

However if you've completed all 8 stacks of Bishoujo Battle Mahjong Solitaire, and then all 8 stacks of Delicious! Pretty Girls Mahjong Solitaire.

There's no way an actual Mahjong fan would be playing each of these games 8 times in this fashion.

 

I tried a Mahjong game recently on PS4 and playing with a controller was pretty awful compared to just tapping areas of the screen or using a mouse like on PC.

 

I don't think quality control is even needed, it should be absolutely obviously to the person doing the buying. A sensible buyer is not buying a game 4 or more times to have fun. The buyer knows full well what they are doing. No matter how much they try to justify their actions.

 

My favourite movie of all the time is "The Terminator", I've seen it 100s of times throughout my life.

 

I didn't buy 8 identical DVDs and then watch each of them once over the course 2 days, and then put them all in the back of the cupboard never to be watched again.

 

Nobody would do that. In games however, this is exactly what people are doing.

Edited October 20, 2021 by enaysoft

[LC-Fraggers]

4 hours ago, enaysoft said:

My favourite movie of all the time is "The Terminator", I've seen it 100s of times throughout my life.

 

I didn't buy 8 identical DVDs and then watch each of them once over the course 2 days, and then put them all in the back of the cupboard never to be watched again.

 

Nobody would do that. In games however, this is exactly what people are doing.

It's not though, is it? You don't gain any actual advantage from watching eight identical DVDs. If every time you watched one of those DVDs, you made recognisable ranking progress on some kind of leaderboard that it was your hobby to climb, then it would be closer to being the same. 

 

To bring up one of your earlier points, it's more accurate to say that by watching The Terminator hundreds of times throughout your life, you're excluding other filmmakers from the opportunity to show you their movies. Of course, that's a ridiculous thing to say but then it's also kind of wild to claim that easy plats are somehow robbing "legit" game developers of their money. If somebody's buying a game just to plat it, they'll never be the target audience for those devs anyway. Somebody who's not interested in playing 50+ hour games is exactly that- not interested.

As I said before, climbing the leaderboards and gaming are two separate hobbies. Addiction is present in all hobbies to some degree; it's what makes you want to advance in them either by growing a collection, a skillset or what have you. The level that addiction becomes a problem at is for an individual to manage though, not anybody else. Is it healthy that you've seen the same movie hundreds of times? What is it that you feel you've gained from doing that? That's nobody's business except yours. If you get enjoyment from it and continue to do so, then carry on. 

[You]

15 hours ago, LC-Fraggers said:

To bring up one of your earlier points, it's more accurate to say that by watching The Terminator hundreds of times throughout your life, you're excluding other filmmakers from the opportunity to show you their movies. Of course, that's a ridiculous thing to say but then it's also kind of wild to claim that easy plats are somehow robbing "legit" game developers of their money. If somebody's buying a game just to plat it, they'll never be the target audience for those devs anyway. Somebody who's not interested in playing 50+ hour games is exactly that- not interested.

As I said before, climbing the leaderboards and gaming are two separate hobbies. Addiction is present in all hobbies to some degree; it's what makes you want to advance in them either by growing a collection, a skillset or what have you. The level that addiction becomes a problem at is for an individual to manage though, not anybody else. Is it healthy that you've seen the same movie hundreds of times? What is it that you feel you've gained from doing that? That's nobody's business except yours. If you get enjoyment from it and continue to do so, then carry on. 

 

Certainly by watching the Terminator 100 times I am missing on our other films. That is inevitable, as one human in a world of billions, it is impossible for me to do able to see everything at once.

It is an interesting comment, however you're kinda missing the point on what I am trying to say.

 

I'm having the time of my life watching the Terminator because I am watching the film because I like it. People playing bad games however are deluding themselves, aren't having actual fun, and are instead wasting their time, and as a result of this, they are missing out on playing good games. This behaviour is caused by trophies and it is holding these people back, not only in their leisure time but also in their life too. For sure playing games at any level in most cases is "not useful in life" and is a time to unwind and relax.

Playing easy non effort games though, you learn or achieve next to nothing from doing that.

 

From a challenge point of view, it's also just a low effort task.

 

If you think about something like, the Le Mans. It is a high speed race that lasts 24 hours, not only about driving skill but also about endurance due to the length.

 

Trophy hunting at a top level, is all about low skill, and no time limit.

It is in comparison probably the easiest and most boring race you can ever think of, and one that lasts forever.

 

This is what the leaderboards are in a nut shell. Is it a really a proud moment to be in 1st place for several years but never actually win?

The more easy trophies that are pumped into the system, the harder it is for people in this race to stop.

 

To become a trophy addict you first have to be a gamer, which is why I say it's highly likely these people would be buying and playing good games, if the trophy rush wasn't on their mind. My mum, who isn't an active gamer, she's not going to just suddenly be playing awful games all day every day since in her life she isn't invested as a gamer.

 

Unknownv2 on the other hand, he wouldn't have bought a Nintendo Switch and be buying and playing games on that if he was still here collecting trophies.

I wish as many people as possible and more people like him in the top of the leaderboards, they all need to wake up someday and stop this path they are on, as I genuinely believe almost none of them will be happy about it years down the line.