I assume this is clickbait/hyperbole, but could anyone elaborate what this means exactly? Is the PS3 "really" in danger of losing online connectivity?

[Raidou Kuzunoha XIV]

This "article":

 

https://7news.com.au/technology/millions-of-smart-devices-to-stop-working-from-thursday-c-4080842

 

Everything I'm finding on this (which isn't a lot for something you'd think would be a big deal) links back to someone called Scott Helme, with the source presumably being this blog(?) post, which doesn't even mention the PS3, just PS4s with firmware 5.00 or older possibly being affected by certificates expiring.

 

Can anyone who's more knowledgeable about this subject than my layman self elaborate on what this actually means?

[Dreakon13]

I'm far from an expert on the subject... but certificates would apply to the server side, not the client side, right?  Like I need to renew the cert for HTTPS access to my server, but I don't need to renew a cert on my laptop to access it.

 

So there's a case to be made that if Sony didn't renew the certs allowing for secure connections to PSN, that PSN may go down.  But obviously they'll renew it.

 

EDIT: Old devices connecting to old, unmaintained servers would probably be the only things really at risk.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Dreakon13

[You]

Perhaps it's just something that relates to unpatched systems from long ago. Who knows, seems like a clickbait article to me.

If this is true, likely jail broken devices will be affected the most.

 

I guess like what happened in 1999 with the so called Millenium Bug, just have to wait and see what happens, it's likely just nothing.

[diskdocx]

Maybe I am being too optimistic here, but I interpret this to mean that devices will need to be updated in order to continue to connect to the internet. The certificate would have been patched for active devices well before now via firmware upgrades.

 

If you are running an old device that you have not updated, then you won't be able to connect - although most devices requiring internet connectivity probably force updates anyway, and you wouldn't be able to connect up to now without updating. As an example, you can't go online with your PS3 without updating to the latest firmware anyway.

 

I'm not exactly sure what would happen if you had an old PS3 that you hadn't gone online with in ages. I assume you can still update it via regular means - as soon as you try to boot up, it will prompt an update.

 

I suppose if you had an old jailbroken system running non-official firmware, maybe you have an issue.

 

Really old devices that have been sunsetted (old iOS devices) or tech that the manufacturer has abandoned or gone out of business, may well be unusable. Not sure how functional most of those devices would be now anyway. Something like the Dreamcast or PSP may no longer connect to the internet.

 

At the end of the day, I think this is mostly a non-issue.

[Raidou Kuzunoha XIV]

6 minutes ago, Dreakon13 said:

I'm far from an expert on the subject... but certificates would apply to the server side, not the client side, right?  Like I need to renew the cert for HTTPS access to my server, but I don't need to renew a cert on my laptop to access it.

 

So there's a case to be made that if Sony didn't renew the certs allowing for secure connections to PSN, that PSN may go down.  But obviously they'll renew it.

 

EDIT: Old devices connecting to old, unmaintained servers would probably be the only things really at risk.

 

That's what I assumed, but apparently there are root certificates on devices, which can "expire" just like server side ones can. I assume these do get updated via firmware updates though, and I imagine this has already been accounted for, but all i can do is speculate. I'm not even sure if the certificates that are apparently expiring on 30th September would be the same ones Sony uses for PSN connection. I imagine maybe at worse the PS3 may just have issues connecting to certain sites on its internet browser (which is garbage anyway), but I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the subject either so this is all conjecture on my part.

[ElevExplorer64]

I'm more concerned about whether this will affect the PS Vita. If it does, I might as well do less trophy hunting.

[Dreakon13]

1 minute ago, SuperSmexy500 said:

 

That's what I assumed, but apparently there are root certificates on devices, which can "expire" just like server side ones can. I assume these do get updated via firmware updates though, and I imagine this has already been accounted for, but all i can do is speculate. I'm not even sure if the certificates that are apparently expiring on 30th September would be the same ones Sony uses for PSN connection. I imagine maybe at worse the PS3 may just have issues connecting to certain sites on its internet browser (which is garbage anyway), but I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the subject either so this is all conjecture on my part.

 

If that's true, I'd say it's a realistic assumption that Sony requires secure connections to PSN... so if the device has a certificate and it does expire, then I could see PS3's on an inappropriately old firmware version losing access altogether and not just certain pages through the web browser.  If you're concerned, just make sure your PS3 is updated.  If this were really going to cause a problem I'm sure more outlets would be reporting on it or Sony would comment.

[DaivRules]

Anyone tested this today? If it's going to happen, it should have happened already.

 

[sepheroithisgod]

On a surface level, it makes sense that older devices will lose safety certificates. In fact, I think this is why you can't use a credit card on the PS3 in the EU. Older platforms do not have the same security standards as modern devices.

 

That said after reading the article, it seems very clickbaity. If it was true, we would have probably seen thousands of complaints that an online has stopped working or they can't connect to PSN. I doubt it will affect any gaming device.

Edited September 30, 2021 by sepheroithisgod

[HuntingFever]

15 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

Anyone tested this today? If it's going to happen, it should have happened already.

 

I've not tried my PS3 yet but several websites I use are now either inaccessible or very glitchy because of expired certificates. EDIT: My PS3 works fine.

Edited September 30, 2021 by HuntingFever
Update.

[DaivRules]

2 minutes ago, HuntingFever said:

I've not tried my PS3 yet but several websites I use are now either inaccessible or very glitchy because of expired certificates.

 

I can confirm there are multiple sites having problems with their certificates. 

 

I presumed that Sony probably updated the PS3/Vita certificates long ago in one of the firmware updates with their general "Stability Updates" labels.

 

[Null_Spectre]

I was able to access PSNProfiles on my PS3 Browser, got a warning the cert was expired or not yet valid beforehand but was still able to proceed.

PlayStation site itself is throwing up the SSL error code (80710a06), Google seems to work fine, Facebook reverts to the mobile version, Reddit is a broken mess but loads some content.

I was also able to access the PSN store and buy content without issue.

I was under the impression Sony updated the certs in their 4.88 update awhile back in preparation for this?

But if it's just affecting websites and not the functionality of the store or logging into PSN and playing online, it's not the end of the world.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Null_Spectre
Checked other sites

[Raidou Kuzunoha XIV]

12 minutes ago, Null_Spectre said:

I was able to access PSNProfiles on my PS3 Browser, got a warning the cert was expired or not yet valid beforehand but was still able to proceed.

PlayStation site itself is throwing up the SSL error code (80710a06), Google seems to work fine, Facebook reverts to the mobile version, Reddit is a broken mess but loads some content.

I was also able to access the PSN store and buy content without issue.

I was under the impression Sony updated the certs in their 4.88 update awhile back in preparation for this?

But if it's just affecting websites and not the functionality of the store or logging into PSN and playing online, it's not the end of the world.

 

I assume in those cases, it may be the websites themselves either haven't updated their certificates, or they simply don't display correctly on some devices. I remember after an update to the Wii U which changed the internet browser, there were some sites that no longer worked correctly when viewed through it. Again, I'm no expert on this, so this is just conjecture.

 

I guess the main question now is whether or not any Playstations or other consoles that have just been sitting around for years on their original or old firmware can still connect to the servers and update or not. I don't know how old they'd have to be, but as aforementioned, PS4s on firmware 5.00 or older may be affected.

 

At least the worse case scenario would just be having to update via USB stick, I'd imagine.

[HuntingFever]

16 minutes ago, Null_Spectre said:

I was able to access PSNProfiles on my PS3 Browser, got a warning the cert was expired or not yet valid beforehand but was still able to proceed.

PlayStation site itself is throwing up the SSL error code (80710a06), Google seems to work fine, Facebook reverts to the mobile version, Reddit is a broken mess but loads some content.

I was also able to access the PSN store and buy content without issue.

I was under the impression Sony updated the certs in their 4.88 update awhile back in preparation for this?

But if it's just affecting websites and not the functionality of the store or logging into PSN and playing online, it's not the end of the world.

The PS3 and Vita Web Browsers are junk anyway so nothing major is lost by certain websites conking out due to this issue.

[DaivRules]

2 minutes ago, SuperSmexy500 said:

 

I assume in those cases, it may be the websites themselves either haven't updated their certificates, or they simply don't display correctly on some devices. I remember after an update to the Wii U which changed the internet browser, there were some sites that no longer worked correctly when viewed through it. Again, I'm no expert on this, so this is just conjecture.

 

I guess the main question now is whether or not any Playstations or other consoles that have just been sitting around for years on their original or old firmware can still connect to the servers and update or not. I don't know how old they'd have to be, but as aforementioned, PS4s on firmware 5.00 or older may be affected.

 

At least the worse case scenario would just be having to update via USB stick, I'd imagine.

 

The original article was about whether the Let's Encrypt certificates were used by the devices to even connect to the internet. We've now established that they're unaffected, meaning Sony updated them a while ago.

 

Consoles with outdated firmware will be able to be updated to current firmware with no problem and connect without issue.

 

The Wii U browser was a rendering problem and had nothing to do with security certificate conflicts. The sites with problems almost certainly have components with expired certificates and will be inaccessible until they're updated or a workaround is issued.

 

 

[Raidou Kuzunoha XIV]

On 30/09/2021 at 5:14 PM, DaivRules said:

 

The original article was about whether the Let's Encrypt certificates were used by the devices to even connect to the internet. We've now established that they're unaffected, meaning Sony updated them a while ago.

 

Consoles with outdated firmware will be able to be updated to current firmware with no problem and connect without issue.

 

The Wii U browser was a rendering problem and had nothing to do with security certificate conflicts. The sites with problems almost certainly have components with expired certificates and will be inaccessible until they're updated or a workaround is issued.

 

 

 

Thanks for the explanation. I saw some speculation over this on some 3DS communities as well, but supposedly Nintendo uses a different certificate system (DigiCert), with those not expiring until November 2031. Not sure what Sony uses.

 

Edit: Sony also uses DigiCert, found this out through their latest web content guidelines for the PS4. They also use several other root certificates for the internet browser, but DigiCert seems to be their "main" one, as far as I could tell. It doesn't seem like Let's Encrypt is even used by Sony at all for root certificates, at least not on PS4 or PS5. Microsoft primarily uses CyberTrust (for Xbox).

Edited October 1, 2021 by SuperSmexy500

[Dreakon13]

1 hour ago, DaivRules said:

The original article was about whether the Let's Encrypt certificates were used by the devices to even connect to the internet. We've now established that they're unaffected, meaning Sony updated them a while ago.

 

Consoles with outdated firmware will be able to be updated to current firmware with no problem and connect without issue.

 

Just to clarify, you'd need to connect to be updated to current firmware, no?  So if you couldn't connect, you wouldn't be able to update, to be able to connect without issue.  No?

 

Maybe they don't require a secure connection for a simple firmware download?  Or throwing it on a USB stick, I guess... but just looking to the future, I'm not sure if you can do USB firmware updates on PS4/PS5, or most devices.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Dreakon13

[Katt]

I'm only having issues with web browser but, who even uses it? Everything else is fine: trophy sync, PS Store, downloads and even online play. If you can't update because you can't connect to internet, just download the firmware file from PS web page and you should be good.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Katt

[DaivRules]

4 minutes ago, Dreakon13 said:

 

Just to clarify, you'd need to connect to be updated to current firmware, no?  So if you couldn't connect, you wouldn't be able to update, to be able to connect without issue.  No?

 

Maybe they don't require a secure connection for a simple firmware download?

 

I was referring to worst case scenario of a USB firmware updates. If firmware is old enough, it's possible they wouldn't even be able to obtain an IP address to connect to PSN. But then clearly they haven't been concerned about connecting online for some time, why worry about it now?

 

[Raidou Kuzunoha XIV]

For what it's worth, my Wii from 2006 can still connect to the internet. When using the web browser, most sites don't work though, just get an "unable to establish a secure connection" error page. Only website I could get to load out of the 10-15 I tried was Serebii.net.

 

39 minutes ago, Dreakon13 said:

 

Just to clarify, you'd need to connect to be updated to current firmware, no?  So if you couldn't connect, you wouldn't be able to update, to be able to connect without issue.  No?

 

Maybe they don't require a secure connection for a simple firmware download?  Or throwing it on a USB stick, I guess... but just looking to the future, I'm not sure if you can do USB firmware updates on PS4/PS5, or most devices.

 

I'm pretty sure you can do USB firmware updates on PS4. Not sure about PS5, but I imagine you probably can. This does concern me  as well though, especially with handheld consoles, that are harder to update without the internet. Most of mine are up to date anyway, but I have a few old and backup consoles that are mostly kept in storage aside from charging the batteries (if relevant) once every 6 months. By the time I heard about this, I didn't really have time to go through and update them if they need to be anyway, so hopefully they should be fine if I ever decide to use them in the future.

Edited September 30, 2021 by SuperSmexy500

[dzstrpc]

Don't know if it's related to certificates but I can't download stuff from my PS3 HK account anymore. Error 80029780

[Null_Spectre]

6 minutes ago, dzstrpc said:

Don't know if it's related to certificates but I can't download stuff from my PS3 HK account anymore. Error 80029780

Not related to certs but a common thread I found after googling that error code is that its related to the number of times you've activated your PSN account.

[Leovizzz]

On 2021-10-01 at 2:17 PM, Null_Spectre said:

Not related to certs but a common thread I found after googling that error code is that its related to the number of times you've activated your PSN account.

 

Can you share your search results? I'm having this code for the last week and can't find a functional workaround anywhere on the web. Also, everything I've read didn't mention activation limits.

[Null_Spectre]

3 hours ago, Leovizzz said:

 

Can you share your search results? I'm having this code for the last week and can't find a functional workaround anywhere on the web. Also, everything I've read didn't mention activation limits.

 

Not sure I follow? Copy and paste the error code into Google and hit search?

[Leovizzz]

On 2021-10-25 at 4:53 PM, Null_Spectre said:

 

Not sure I follow? Copy and paste the error code into Google and hit search?

 

I've done it and found nothing related to acocount activation, that's why I asked for your help. Maybe google is giving different results for different locations.