Ancestral_Spirit

A speedrun in a game like this, baffles me

17 posts in this topic

52 minutes ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

It completely and utterly defeats the purpose of pretty much all the mechanics and overall feel of the game entirely.

 

The haunting atmosphere is now lost, while i'm having to pelt my way through sections that would normally be suspenseful and heart pounding, i'm now just not giving a damn because i'm too busy timing myself through sections of the game.

 

The mechanic of stealth is now lost, as you really don't have time for it anymore, making your sneak button essentially useless.


For me, this is pretty much exactly why I love speedrunning. It’s like a science; a complete and utter dissection of a video game to its rawest core elements, sometimes to the point where it’s almost a  different game entirely.
 

It’s pushing both yourself and the game to the very limits, a battle in which you’re trying to bend the game to your will and it’s trying its hardest to resist, all whilst the clock is ticking. 
 

Earlier this year I developed a habit of watching a speedrun of a game after I’d beaten it. It’s so fascinating to see someone blitz through a Dishonored level in literally 40 seconds when I had snuck through it for 40 minutes. Or to outsmart and infantilise something as formidable as the alien in A:Isolation. Then there are the more minute details, such as skipping a cutscene by throwing a glass up in the air beforehand, so that it lands on your head and interrupts the animation…

 

For me, it’s part of what makes video games so special. 

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I fully agree with the OP, you can tell with how the game is, it was not intended to be speedrun through as for example especially the A.I. It's is way too unpredictable as one action you do one time might not work the second time and whether the AI notices you is tempermental.

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15 minutes ago, MrFudge said:


For me, this is pretty much exactly why I love speedrunning. It’s like a science; a complete and utter dissection of a video game to its rawest core elements, sometimes to the point where it’s almost a  different game entirely.
 

It’s pushing both yourself and the game to the very limits, a battle in which you’re trying to bend the game to your will and it’s trying its hardest to resist, all whilst the clock is ticking. 
 

Earlier this year I developed a habit of watching a speedrun of a game after I’d beaten it. It’s so fascinating to see someone blitz through a Dishonored level in literally 40 seconds when I had snuck through it for 40 minutes. Or to outsmart and infantilise something as formidable as the alien in A:Isolation. Then there are the more minute details, such as skipping a cutscene by throwing a glass up in the air beforehand, so that it lands on your head and interrupts the animation…

 

For me, it’s part of what makes video games so special. 

 

I've always said that i find speedrunners to be in a league of their own, and for pretty much the exact reasons you've listed here.

I mean, just now i used a glitch where you have to hold buttons in a certain combination, and use a moving hook to phase through a wall, and i've basically skipped a full minute or three by doing so. The fact that someone managed to think of doing it in the first place is incredible to me!

 

I think my major issue with it in a game like this, is that it's specifically tied to a trophy that any joe bloggs (myself included) would try because it's literally rubbed in your face.

 

Speedrunning for me, is a community of its own.

Watching people shave off those precious few milliseconds, to push themselves further up the ranks and closer to that world record is fascinating to watch, but is mostly done by people that enjoy doing speedruns on pretty much ANY game, and not because the game itself has set it as a goal.

The fact that the people that made this game, set it as an in game achievement as opposed to people attempting speedruns simply for the fun of it, or because it's their hobby is my problem.

 

I would assume there's probably a relatively sizable chunk of trophy hunters who are also speedrunners, like yourself.

But i also know there's a sizeable chunk of us on here that are trophy hunters and not speedrunners, and i fall into this category. But now i have to play in the mindset of a speedrunner, which is something i personally hate doing myself but love watching others do.

I like taking my time with games, oogling every last detail in the art design, dissecting the story, getting immersed in the atmosphere. I find that a little hard to do, when i'm phasing through walls and doors and throwing myself into the xmb screen every 5 minutes  >.<

 

 

1 minute ago, ZachBoardyHD said:

I fully agree with the OP, you can tell with how the game is, it was not intended to be speedrun through as for example especially the A.I. It's is way too unpredictable as one action you do one time might not work the second time and whether the AI notices you is tempermental.

I noticed this a lot in the kitchen section, chapter 3. You're lead to believe a lot of the time that you cannot be seen under a table, but by god those mutated chefs must have x-ray vision or something because i was being spotted under tables in my first run constantly.

Now in my speedrun, i barely use cover at all, which kinda feels like the purposeful intention of the mechanics of the game are lost  >.<

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Posted (edited)

A speedrun challenge is always welcome.

 

Edited by B1rvine
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4 minutes ago, B1rvine said:

Some players on this site only care about their trophy count, and rush through everything as fast as possible just to increase their gamer score. Other players may just be scaredy cats, and use a guide (which will help them go quicker) to avoid fright. A few players may appreciate the game first, either on a main or alt, but want to leave their mark on their second account by playing as fast as possible. I'm sure there's other reasons too.

 

 

 

 

I was more talking about the idea of a speedrun in games akin to Little Nightmares specifically.

 

I'm no fan of speedruns, but in certain games i understand why they would necessitate in a trophy or in game goal.

Games that are more like arcade action games, that would give you a higher score depending on how fast you finished it i could understand.

Free running games like Mirror's Edge, they make sense because of the goal of the game, RUN RUN RUN. RUN as fast as you can through a city scape, speedruns fit perfectly here.

And i don't think i really need to bother bringing up a game like Sonic The Hedgehog, i mean 'Gotta Go Fast' is the aim of the game.

Even frantic FPS games i kinda get it, something like the latest Doom entries pride themselves on you being able to dispatch demons brutally and quickly.

 

But an atmospheric, stealth action, horror?

That's when the idea of speedruns as a trophy or in game achievement confuses me.

 

No offence meant to any speedrunners on here, but i'll be honest, speedrunners will speedrun ANYTHING!

I mean people speedrun games like Granny and House of Caravan, because they can.

But seeing it in a game like Little Nightmares as something that the devs deliberately put there, even knowing what it was that they made, knowing that the time and effort they put into fine tuning the mechanics and overall game feel was going to be pointless when they put that speedrun trophy in there, they did it anyway.

 

And i just don't get it  xD 

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27 minutes ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

I like taking my time with games, oogling every last detail in the art design, dissecting the story, getting immersed in the atmosphere. I find that a little hard to do, when i'm phasing through walls and doors and throwing myself into the xmb screen every 5 minutes  >.<


Me too, but that’s what your first (and sometimes second) playthrough is for. First you have to admire the beauty, then you have to tear it to shreds 😁

 

I’m not even a speedrunner btw, I might mess around with a game every now and then, and I do enjoy it when a trophy asks it of me, but I’m far from being properly dedicated to it. I just admire it and enjoy it in moderation, and I do get why many people despise it. 
 

Also Joe Bloggs lol, haven’t heard that one in a lifetime :P

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2 minutes ago, Helyx said:

I've always hated speedruns, time trials and other similar challenges; good luck.

 

Same, and thank you  :)

Fortunately you can cheese this one a little with save backups, although i'll admit the checkpoints are pretty wack  xD

 

3 minutes ago, MrFudge said:


Me too, but that’s what your first (and sometimes second) playthrough is for. First you have to admire the beauty, then you have to tear it to shreds 1f601.png

 

I’m not even a speedrunner btw, I might mess around with a game every now and then, and I do enjoy it when a trophy asks it of me, but I’m far from being properly dedicated to it. I just admire it and enjoy it in moderation, and I do get why many people despise it. 
 

Also Joe Bloggs lol, haven’t heard that one in a lifetime :P

 

I just can't get the enjoyment out of it like you and others do i suppose, to each their own.  :) 

Though it's been nice hearing opinions from everyone here without it devolving to, 'maybe you're just shit at speedruns and that's why you hate them, git gud', which sadly has been the response when i've brought up this topic on other forums  :/

 

I'll continue watching people speedrun stuff though. While watching the speedruns for this game, there has been many a moment where i've thrown my hands up in the air and said 'no f***ing way!', but i'll be damned if it ain't impressive. I keep track of Karl Jobst channel on youtube, because some of the new record breakers on there for games that have been around for almost 2 decades is just nutty to me. So i'll keep appreciating from a distance.

 

Oof guess i'm showing my age with the Joe Bloggs thing huh?  :P 

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I played Little Nightmares fairly recently and loved it, but I thought the same thing. A speed run trophy felt really out of place for game like this and I couldn't bring myself to needlessly frustrate myself with save scumming it so I just left it at 87% lol. I probably would've at the very least considered it if it happened to have a platinum, but it doesn't so I said the hell with it and moved on. Luckily the second game doesn't have any speed running trophies and it has a plat so there's something for you to look forward to when/if you end up playing it. 

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Posted (edited)

17 minutes ago, Pray_4_the_End said:

I played Little Nightmares fairly recently and loved it, but I thought the same thing. A speed run trophy felt really out of place for game like this and I couldn't bring myself to needlessly frustrate myself with save scumming it so I just left it at 87% lol. I probably would've at the very least considered it if it happened to have a platinum, but it doesn't so I said the hell with it and moved on. Luckily the second game doesn't have any speed running trophies and it has a plat so there's something for you to look forward to when/if you end up playing it. 

 

I literally just got the trophy about 10 mins ago, huzzah!  :D 

 

Well if you really wanna go for the trophy at some point, i followed a lot of this guys strats:

https://www.speedrun.com/little_nightmares/run/z5drpknm

 

I didn't do any of the risky business of sliding through enemies hands, and i didn't even bother phasing through the door in chapter 3, but the hook thing i tried and got that to work on only my second try  :D 

Here's the txt version of how to do it, and it was surprisingly easy, i nearly dropped the controller when i realised i'd managed to get the first bit of phasing through the wall holding the hook xD  

https://www.speedrun.com/little_nightmares/thread/quksu/1#7c9fm

 

I nearly quit on it myself toward the end of chapter 2, where you have to cut the handsy mans arms off. Had a bit of a rage quit a few times, a good cry (i'm a girly girl pansy pants and i reserve the right to do that when i'm mad haha :P ) but got back on it after a half hour or so and Bob's your uncle, i got it done.

Not gonna lie though, it's a ballache, but hell if i can do it i'm sure there's plenty of others including yourself that can do it too!

 

I've just got the DLC to do on the first game and then i'll move straight onto the second.

You have no idea how relieved i am to hear that there's no speedrun in the second one <3 

 

EDIT: God fekin dammit! When you start a new game it deletes all your concept art. Guess i'll have to do another playthrough of it at some point soon. I'll be damned if i'm leaving this game half finished!

Edited by Ancestral_Spirit
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I hate speedruns, permadeath [ which this is both which is insane, as everything can kill Six [ I die to those slug things every time ] and time trials in games, this kind of stopping me getting the 100% for this one.  If they had just made it under 3 hrs which is more doable and not done it as well as not dying the same time, it might of been less stressful for the player to do. 

 

Besides the dumb speedrun/no death trophy, the one below is one of other harder trophies without getting seen by the Chef and being basically killed by him [ either being put in the oven, stuffed in a fish or what else he does if he finds you ].

 

Little Nightmares_20200811112302

 

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Finally did it after three days of trying and progressing through my "speedrun" :o !

 

Honestly, compared to Limbo, this trophy from LN was really hard and challenging. The main problem is not the time but to die and without backing your save on the cloud, it would have been very difficult. But I think you can still do a normal run without rushing anything and still finish the game in under one hour but you can't be so sure.

 

I tried to record my time from my "speedrun" but I finally gave up because I had to retry so many times on some specific levels to be sure that I can pass in a few seconds and save time. I guess maybe I took 50 minutes or even a bit less to finish the game without dying. 

 

I followed this speedrun on Youtube but obviously, I couldn't do everything he did and some glitch already seems fixed. Also, this video on Youtube shows that the guy could finish the game in 57 minutes without dying and took his time really. There is a commentary where a guy gives tips on every part of the walkthrough where you can save time. 

I couldn't do every tip that he advised so will tell you guys what I did :

 

Spoiler
  • Hide behind the column and run to the back of the eye room and continue straight and wait for the light to move
  • Sprint along the way when you are in the "kids room" where the Janitor try to find you
  • Open the left drawer and the second drawer halfway
  • Same for the second eye room
  • Spring straight until you jump on the furniture where the Janitor is doing the dishes. Then one rotation and jump into the trap door
  • In the library section, just run by using the small holes and take the keys, wait for him to enter, and then run again to go back to the rotation mechanism
  • When you are in the clock room, run and grab the monkey and right away throw it on the elevator button and stay hidden at the bottom right
  • Jump over his hand instead of waiting for him to reach for the pipe
  • That was a really hard part for me when you have to slow down the Janitor when he try to grab you by dodging it. I suggest you practice a lot because it will save you a lot of time if you can make him stun and then be able to break the bars of the cage. You can crouch to be able to break the second one.
  • When you have to take the keys in the room where a chef sleeps, I couldn't do like in the speedrun video, so I just broke the object on the heater and hide under the bed, then when he was behind me, I grabbed the keys and ran to the elevator.
  • The first time when the Janitor goes down from the elevator, just hide in the small box and when he tried to look for you, just run and slide to reach the elevator
  • Just after that, you have to take the keys to the kitchen table but couldn't do it straight. So I just did it normally by walking hidden behind him, turning the machine and going to grab the keys, and going down from the elevator.
  • In the dishes room, just run until you can pull the lever, going back on staying on the table and climbing the pile of plates to grab the hook.
  • In the end, when you have to avoid the guy trying to catch you by being on the floor, just do it by going back and jumping on his back. I couldn't pass through him when he falls.
  • When the Janitor arrive from the elevator, wait a bit from it and I could avoid his grab animation by sliding down a few times and going inside the elevator
  • The end is easy

 

So you don't need to do exactly what shows on the speedrun video because the guy trained to do this speedrun for a lot of hours. Hope the two links and my list of tips will help you to get the trophy and be able to beat the game in under one hour without dying :)

 

Good luck to all of you :)

 

I really loved this game so going to do all the DLCs and then play the second game :) !

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I can understand this, but I see it both ways.

 

On one hand the game’s general mechanics don’t lend its self well to fast pace timing based gameplay(the dlcs seem to have improved it, at least imo)

The games strengths are its impassive atmosphere, art design and soundtrack.

The controls are more less just a vehicle to experience these in a more direct way.

Tho I do still think the core gameplay isn’t shabby, the trial error design to the levels still help with giving the player that sense of anxiety as you have to plan your routes effectively and really soak in the game nightmare ish landscape as you make your way tru the large opposing stages, harazds and bosses.

 

Now on the other hand what does this mean when the game asked you to play the game in a very different way? 
I personally find it to be like the above but just in a different take is all.

Yes you gotta be fast and be very aware of each section coming up but it still is nerve racking to know there’s a big hulking monster ready to fly around a corner to make you into a yellow rain coat soup if you haven’t be really learning the game.


Would also like to add that I did this without backing up my save, I feel this made the game actually tense and not just tedious like many others xp was.

Know that one wrong move or miss time could land me back to the main menu was sorta scary.

 

Just posting this so other could maybe trackle it with a more open mind is all.

 

Happy Hunting y’all.

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On 10/5/2021 at 8:38 PM, MrFudge said:


For me, this is pretty much exactly why I love speedrunning. It’s like a science; a complete and utter dissection of a video game to its rawest core elements, sometimes to the point where it’s almost a  different game entirely.
 

It’s pushing both yourself and the game to the very limits, a battle in which you’re trying to bend the game to your will and it’s trying its hardest to resist, all whilst the clock is ticking. 
 

Earlier this year I developed a habit of watching a speedrun of a game after I’d beaten it. It’s so fascinating to see someone blitz through a Dishonored level in literally 40 seconds when I had snuck through it for 40 minutes. Or to outsmart and infantilise something as formidable as the alien in A:Isolation. Then there are the more minute details, such as skipping a cutscene by throwing a glass up in the air beforehand, so that it lands on your head and interrupts the animation…

 

For me, it’s part of what makes video games so special. 

 

I pretty much hate speed running in general, but this is a really interesting take on the idea :) 

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On 11/6/2021 at 4:11 PM, Mystic_Snake said:

Honestly, compared to Limbo, this trophy from LN was really hard and challenging.

 

Now THAT I cannot agree with at all  xD

 

I gave up on that one a while ago. It maybe something i'll go back to, when i have enough money to replace the inevitable broken controllers i'll leave in my wake attempting it again.

It's mostly that damn very last section. Personally to me, it felt more like complete dumb luck as to whether or not i'd make it through that very last exit.

 

Little Nightmares was certainly more do-able to me at least. Granted there were sections that frustrated me, but not to the point that Limbo did.

Quick question though, can you abuse save backups like you can for Little Nightmares? I never bothered using save backups for my Limbo attempts, but if i know i can now, i damn well will!  xD 

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On 11/8/2021 at 0:15 PM, Ancestral_Spirit said:

 

Now THAT I cannot agree with at all  xD

 

I gave up on that one a while ago. It maybe something i'll go back to, when i have enough money to replace the inevitable broken controllers i'll leave in my wake attempting it again.

It's mostly that damn very last section. Personally to me, it felt more like complete dumb luck as to whether or not i'd make it through that very last exit.

 

Little Nightmares was certainly more do-able to me at least. Granted there were sections that frustrated me, but not to the point that Limbo did.

Quick question though, can you abuse save backups like you can for Little Nightmares? I never bothered using save backups for my Limbo attempts, but if i know i can now, i damn well will!  xD 

 

Second thought, my remark was really wrong indeed! Actually, LN is more doable than Limbo because of the save backup and also that you can just do a normal run and perhaps finish under one hour. You're right, it's just that I got too much frustrated on my no-death run because I wanted to be quick for each section, the thing that I shouldn't have cared too much as I explained.

 

So you have to be fast during your run but don't need to be too fast, some sections are easier to do it faster than others so don't need to get stuck on the ones you have a hard time like I stupidly did. 

 

You can check my review about Limbo from one of the recent topics from the game section but actually, there is luck but also you can count when you have to jump on go to the other section. Unfortunately, you can't abuse save backups like for LN, you have to finish the game in one run straight (you can pause or even put the console in reset mode I think). But yes for this trophy, you need patience and motivation like many other trophies like that. 

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