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[PSNP+] Unobtainable Trophies Master List


HusKy

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18 hours ago, wltrsjcwvita said:

Isn't this game online only? I ask, because the .org Guide lists all the trophies as being online only ?. If that is false, I'll have a word with their Guide Team and get it updated :).

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4 hours ago, HuntingFever said:

Isn't this game online only? I ask, because the .org Guide lists all the trophies as being online only 1f914.png. If that is false, I'll have a word with their Guide Team and get it updated :).

You can play a very limited amount of the game offline, definitely enough to play every song provided you own the delisted DLC. You just can't earn XP or use power-ups, which prevents all related trophies as well as 5-star and Gold star trophies from being earned. Both TT and TA have certain trophies marked as "Offline Game Mode", I'll make a post over on the TT forums to have the online ones marked as unobtainable.

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2 hours ago, wltrsjcwvita said:

You can play a very limited amount of the game offline, definitely enough to play every song provided you own the delisted DLC. You just can't earn XP or use power-ups, which prevents all related trophies as well as 5-star and Gold star trophies from being earned. Both TT and TA have certain trophies marked as "Offline Game Mode", I'll make a post over on the TT forums to have the online ones marked as unobtainable.

Nice one, that will be helpful to everyone :). Once that's done, please let me know, then I'll have a word with the .org Guide Team about getting their Guide for this game updated.

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17 hours ago, WakeUpHP said:

What is the rationale behind not including delisted DLC here?

 

The rationale is explained in the first post -- you can't earn trophies for something you don't have access to. Doesn't matter if it's a base game or a DLC.

Some of the DLCs are delisted, yet available in the 3rd party shops (such as Olympic Games DLC for Steep).

Lastly, some DLCs are delisted only in certain regions.

 

Also, list updated.

Duplicate check: OK. Contains 1003 trophy lists.
src/list.json5 valid

 

Edited by HusKy
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// Serious Sam: Siberian Mayhem (PS5) [HuntingFever]
// https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/18569-serious-sam-siberian-mayhem
// https://psnprofiles.com/trophy/18569-serious-sam-siberian-mayhem/1-hero
// https://psnprofiles.com/trophy/18569-serious-sam-siberian-mayhem/38-massacre-party
"18569": [1, 38],

 

The devs removed the x2 Multiplier from the game when porting it to the PS5 but didn't change the trophy requirements to reflect this fact, though apparently a patch is coming.

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4 hours ago, HusKy said:

 

The rationale is explained in the first post -- you can't earn trophies for something you don't have access to. Doesn't matter if it's a base game or a DLC.

Some of the DLCs are delisted, yet available in the 3rd party shops (such as Olympic Games DLC for Steep).

Lastly, some DLCs are delisted only in certain regions.

 

 

This makes perfect sense for not including base games on the list, since like you say, if you don't have it, then you can't "not obtain their unobtainable trophies", but this reasoning is less robust when it comes to delisted DLC, since DLC trophies are included with the base trophy list.  If for example I load The Angry Birds Trilogy onto my profile, I can get the platinum, but the DLC trophies are literally impossible for me to unlock (unless I break Sony's ToS), meaning I can't get 100% in the game.  I don't see how this is any different from not being able to get some Max Payne 3 DLC trophies because the servers are down - the result is ultimately the same.

 

I think DLCs which are delisted in certain regions are a grey area and I understand not including them eg. XCOM DLC only being available in the Hong Kong store, since workarounds are available for this.

Edited by WakeUpHP
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20 minutes ago, WakeUpHP said:

Meaning I can't get 100% in the game

 

As I said before, delists are not tracked in this list. Not sure what I should reply here. You don't own the piece of code that triggers the trophy, therefore you can't earn it.

 

Also, delisted games can still be shared with other accounts. Not sure about PS3 and Vita though.

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16 hours ago, HusKy said:

 

As I said before, delists are not tracked in this list. Not sure what I should reply here. You don't own the piece of code that triggers the trophy, therefore you can't earn it.

 

Also, delisted games can still be shared with other accounts. Not sure about PS3 and Vita though.

Like you say, you don't have the piece of code, therefore you can't earn the trophy, which renders the trophy... unobtainable?  As per the title of the thread.  This is fine for base games, since it's impossible to load them onto your profile unless you had already downloaded them before the delisting, but for delisted DLC you can still install the base game and then be left with unobtainable trophies on your profile. 

 

Anyway I won't keep cluttering the thread with comments about this.  At the end of the day, you're in charge of the list and you decide what gets included here, and I fully appreciate all you do to improve the site, but this just seems like excluding clearly unobtainable trophies based on a technicality.

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30 minutes ago, WakeUpHP said:

Like you say, you don't have the piece of code, therefore you can't earn the trophy, which renders the trophy... unobtainable?  As per the title of the thread.  This is fine for base games, since it's impossible to load them onto your profile unless you had already downloaded them before the delisting, but for delisted DLC you can still install the base game and then be left with unobtainable trophies on your profile. 

 

Anyway I won't keep cluttering the thread with comments about this.  At the end of the day, you're in charge of the list and you decide what gets included here, and I fully appreciate all you do to improve the site, but this just seems like excluding clearly unobtainable trophies based on a technicality.

i mean we could add it with a ? or something but i know op is busy at the moment so maybe the community could help with it. we could even do the delisted dlc in a different colour! (i keep thinking about green for some reason).

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5 hours ago, WakeUpHP said:

Like you say, you don't have the piece of code, therefore you can't earn the trophy, which renders the trophy... unobtainable?

 

But you can obtain the code.

 

You can game share to get the DLC so the trophies are obtainable. Just because 99% of people won't go through the effort of obtaining them if they didn't already buy it themselves does not mean that they are unobtainable. Game sharing is an intentional feature so its allowed.

 

You can't earn it, but you could if you put in the effort of getting the DLC.

 

Edited by MrHealthy
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5 hours ago, WakeUpHP said:

you don't have the piece of code, therefore you can't earn the trophy, which renders the trophy... unobtainable?

 

Unobtainable for you, not for everyone. Hence why these trophies are not part of the list.

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55 minutes ago, MrHealthy said:

 

But you can obtain the code.

 

You can game share to get the DLC so the trophies are obtainable. Just because 99% of people won't go through the effort of obtaining them if they didn't already buy it themselves does not mean that they are unobtainable. Game sharing is an intentional feature so its allowed.

 

You can't earn it, but you could if you put in the effort of getting the DLC.

 

Game sharing in the manner you describe is against Sony's ToS, presumably requests for game sharing are against this site's ToS (a mod could chime in here, but this always used to result in warnings and bans on .org), and you risk having your details or even your account stolen if you game share... I get that the site can't know if people game shared to get delisted DLC, and certainly shouldn't remove people from leaderboards if they do this since it's their own business, but it shouldn't really alter the fact that these trophies are impossible to get by legitimate means.  Unless of course you already downloaded the DLC before the delisting, but this is simply a technicality - these people won't care if a game they already own is listed here or not...

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33 minutes ago, WakeUpHP said:

Game sharing in the manner you describe is against Sony's ToS, presumably requests for game sharing are against this site's ToS (a mod could chime in here, but this always used to result in warnings and bans on .org), and you risk having your details or even your account stolen if you game share... I get that the site can't know if people game shared to get delisted DLC, and certainly shouldn't remove people from leaderboards if they do this since it's their own business, but it shouldn't really alter the fact that these trophies are impossible to get by legitimate means.  Unless of course you already downloaded the DLC before the delisting, but this is simply a technicality - these people won't care if a game they already own is listed here or not...

 

Considering I did not describe the manner of game sharing I don't know how you can claim its against ToS. Sonys ToS restricts sharing of Account Information not of games and DLC themselves. If I go to a friends house, login and download games or DLC without sharing my account details I have successfully game shared without breaking the ToS. I have shared those games, DLC and access too those trophies legitimately. There is even a setting specifying if you want to do this on PS5 when the console is in an offline state because its an intended feature (Console Sharing and Offline Play is the setting). They are not impossible to get by legitimate means. Full stop.

 

Just because you don't have access to them doesn't mean you never will or that someone else does not.

 

I would also like to mention that I own quite a bit of delisted games and DLC. I do care that they are not listed here as when I am looking at the unobtainable trophies I want to know if they are truly impossible to get. (Which is also why I was in favor of removing the exceptions list)

 

 

Edited by MrHealthy
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1 hour ago, MrHealthy said:

 

Considering I did not describe the manner of game sharing I don't know how you can claim its against ToS. Sonys ToS restricts sharing of Account Information not of games and DLC themselves. If I go to a friends house, login and download games or DLC without sharing my account details I have successfully game shared without breaking the ToS. I have shared those games, DLC and access too those trophies legitimately. There is even a setting specifying if you want to do this on PS5 when the console is in an offline state because its an intended feature (Console Sharing and Offline Play is the setting). They are not impossible to get by legitimate means. Full stop.

 

Just because you don't have access to them doesn't mean you never will or that someone else does not.

 

I would also like to mention that I own quite a bit of delisted games and DLC. I do care that they are not listed here as when I am looking at the unobtainable trophies I want to know if they are truly impossible to get. (Which is also why I was in favor of removing the exceptions list)

 

 

OK fine, there also exists the unlikely scenario that you know somebody IRL who has he DLC and is willing to come to your house and share it with you.  This is a technicality - just as already having the DLC downloaded yourself is a technicality.  Describing fringe scenarios in which the trophies can technically be unlocked but are completely unreasonable for the vast, overwhelming majority of players seems contrary to the spirit of such a resource.  Technically, no platinum trophy should be listed here as impossible, since as long as you earned the online trophies before the server closure, the platinum is still available, but platinums are listed as unobtainable here because anyone starting from the beginning cannot obtain them.  There are even non-platinum trophies with both online and offline components which are classified as impossible but are still technically possible to unlock for very specific players who fulfilled the online conditions but not the offline; these trophies are technically obtainable (although not for me), but it would be incredibly misleading to make exceptions for them.

 

PS5 discussion is also irrelevant when it comes to PS3 and Vita games where game sharing, or "sharing account information", or whatever way you want to litigate it, was always unambiguously against the ToS.

 

Anyway it doesn't seem like there's much left to say here, I've had my say, OP doesn't agree, so it stays as is.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, WakeUpHP said:

Describing fringe scenarios in which the trophies can technically be unlocked but are completely unreasonable for the vast, overwhelming majority of players seems contrary to the spirit of such a resource.

 

Should we also then flag VirZOOM Arcade? https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/5581-virzoom-arcade

It's trophies are locked behind a now discontinued, rare and expensive exercise bike. Its a fringe scenario and is unreasonable for the vast majority.

 

What about the Long March and Ultra Survival trophies in TxK? https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/2399-txk

Two trophies so notoriously difficult and notoriously buggy that only 1 person has ever actually unlocked them legit.

 

Should both those be flag despite being possible?

 

1 hour ago, WakeUpHP said:

Technically, no platinum trophy should be listed here as impossible, since as long as you earned the online trophies before the server closure, the platinum is still available, but platinums are listed as unobtainable here because anyone starting from the beginning cannot obtain them.

 

 As you said these plats and non-platinum trophies with both online and offline components can not be obtained by new players. Delisted DLC can be obtained by new players even if its unreasonably difficult to do so. Just because its unreasonably difficult does not make it impossible for you to do it. You are basically just asking for these to be flagged because you never want to put in the effort of tracking down access to them.

 

If we start flagging trophies just because they are hard to get for the majority of new players should we start flagging games like Badland? https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/3586-badland

Its incredibly difficult and has trophies locked behind local co-op. We can not expect the majority of new players to have someone to play with, let alone someone good enough to finihs the game.

 

Or what about Vita adhoc trophies? Should we flag them because its difficult to find someone with a Vita and another copy of the game? The vast majority of new players will never get these trophies.

 

2 hours ago, WakeUpHP said:

PS5 discussion is also irrelevant when it comes to PS3 and Vita games where game sharing, or "sharing account information", or whatever way you want to litigate it, was always unambiguously against the ToS.

 

This is factually not true. There is only one ToS for all sony consoles. It gets updated over time. https://www.playstation.com/en-ca/legal/psn-terms-of-service/

Quoting section 1.4:

 

In addition to this Terms of Service and User Agreement (“Agreement” or “Terms”), the following terms apply and form part of your contract with us: (a) the System Software License Agreement, which governs the use of the software embedded in a PlayStation, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, PlayStation 3, PlayStation Vita, PlayStation TV, PlayStation Classic, PlayStation 4, or PlayStation 5 system (a “PlayStation Device”)

 

And its not me litigating it. Its Sony's own words. Game sharing does not equal account sharing. Account sharing is specifically someone other then you logging onto your account. Game sharing is specifically just playing a game that someone else downloaded onto the console for you, no different then lending someone a disc. (Unless that person is charging you a fee that is)

 

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11 hours ago, MrHealthy said:

 

Snip

 

VirZoom:  If the bike has been discontinued, secondhand bikes don't work because they're tied to the original user's account, and it's unknown whether any new bikes actually exist at all, then it should probably be included here.  But I'll admit that I have no idea about the finer points of this game.

 

TxK: No, since it's possible with effort and extreme luck.

 

Adhoc trophies:  Second hand Vitas are €150 in my city, not exactly an unreasonable or even difficult condition to fulfill.

 

Badland:  Actually possible via shareplay, which is how most people completed this.  If shareplay didn't exist though, then I actually think this would be a good example to illustrate your point - it would still be technically possible as long as you have another very high level player who is available to play couch coop with you.  I would obviously be against labelling this as unobtainable if this was the case and I agree that there are similarities between this case and the delisted DLC examples.  But I will stress that the cases are slightly different - Badland is still available to everyone, Angry Birds DLC is not.  This means that both you and your potential couch coop player have exactly the same opportunities to procure the required software needed for the trophies as everybody else.

 

At the end of the day, I see your point regarding why delisted DLC is not included in an outright "unobtainable trophies" list.  But Husky was flirting with the idea of labelling trophies from games like The Binding of Isaac as unobtainable, when it was only impossible on Vita due to the DLC never being released there.  I personally think having a game with delisted DLC is far more problematic than a game that was only impossible on one system, which is why I posed the question in the first place.  I'm sure everyone could agree that some kind of tag for delisted DLC would be incredibly useful - almost as useful as the "!" tag for outright unobtainables - but I suppose I'm spoiled by how useful PSNP+ really is, so I don't want to seem ungrateful for an add-on that improves the site immeasurably and that I get for free, and I get that maintaining such a list or adding variables is simply more time and effort that he's providing essentially for free. 

Edited by WakeUpHP
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1 hour ago, WakeUpHP said:

VirZoom:  If the bike has been discontinued, secondhand bikes don't work because they're tied to the original user's account, and it's unknown whether any new bikes actually exist at all, then it should probably be included here.  But I'll admit that I have no idea about the finer points of this game.

 

13 hours ago, MrHealthy said:

Should we also then flag VirZOOM Arcade? https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/5581-virzoom-arcade

It's trophies are locked behind a now discontinued, rare and expensive exercise bike. Its a fringe scenario and is unreasonable for the vast majority.

I will disagree. You can still contact devs to "reset" the bike and assign it to another account. Allow myself to call @Bizzy_Montana_ who solved it that way.

Edited by Smashero
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Thank you for mentioning me :)

 

From what I've understood, the option to set up a new account or get in touch with the devs in general has been somewhat reinstated despite the fact that the devs now focus on VZFit (the successor which isn't compatible to PlayStation). 

 

Due to the aspect that I don't own the bike anymore I must admit that I'm not the foremost expert on this case, but I think that players can still earn trophies in this game. 

 

In case the question ever arises, an autopop for VirZoom should never be flagged due to the nature of the "bike remembering the miles". Please see https://forum.psnprofiles.com/topic/58194-trophy-glitch/#comment-2373676

as a reference, my dear friend @Infernofeuer1and me encountered an unprecedented issue.

 

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Updated report:

 

// theHunter: Call of the Wild (PS4) [HuntingFever]
// https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/6622-thehunter-call-of-the-wild
// https://psnprofiles.com/trophy/6622-thehunter-call-of-the-wild/64-mboweni-arc
// https://psnprofiles.com/trophy/6622-thehunter-call-of-the-wild/67-brother-arc
// https://psnprofiles.com/trophy/6622-thehunter-call-of-the-wild/97-shady-dealings
// https://psnprofiles.com/trophy/6622-thehunter-call-of-the-wild/103-commitment
"6622": [64, 67, 97, 103],

 

More trophies are now confirmed fixed by the latest patch but the above are still very broken.

Edited by HuntingFever
Update.
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@HusKy

 

regarding Army of two the 40th day, there has been a way to get diy pmc now 

 

https://forum.psnprofiles.com/topic/134152-new-method-to-earn-diy-pmc-trophy-now-deemed-legit/?page=3#comment-2651925

but since the servers close tomorrow, should we remove the trophy from the list for the day or keep it on the system?

Edited by serrated-banner9
removing random z
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19 minutes ago, serrated-banner9 said:

@HusKy

 

regarding Army of two the 40th day, there has been a way to get diy pmc now 

 

https://forum.psnprofiles.com/topic/134152-new-method-to-earn-diy-pmc-trophy-now-deemed-legit/?page=3#comment-2651925

but since the servers close tomorrow, should we remove the trophy from the list for the day or keep it on the system?

 

This belongs under rule A3, it should stay tagged.

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