RPG Mania 2022 - Return of the Turn Based Gameplay - Congrats Laburnski! (Completed)

[Psy-Tychist]

RPG Mania has become such a success, that it's becoming the popular new thing for the cool kids. Or just those that like RPG's. Like @kingofbattle8174.

 

Signups will begin from posting of this thread until the event starts on April 1st at 12am UTC.

 

Competitors:

@Spinacheq

@Mesopithecus

@willythom88

@Deadly_Ha_Ha

@fisty123

@Sanevin

@AppleKratue

@Lord_Bane999

@Eternal_Rach

@Sendai-Horatio

@Arctic Cress

@Laburnski

@CaptainMonkster

@Armored_Oso66

@Kishnabe

@AlterArchuria

@acasser

@AffectatiousDonk

@xZoneHunter

@Warpedsavior

 

...Psy-Tychist

 

So there has to be some requirements right, So here is what direction I am leaning in.

Spoiler

1) Please have at least 6 months forum experience on the current profile you are using. I say this because this is a year long event and having someone drop out because the they get deterred with their account and having to readjust afterwards is not something that I want to deal with. If you are competing, please also be sure you want to commit. 
  
2) To determine what games qualify, it should specify RPG on this site under Genre on this site. There will be instances where some games will have RPG as a genre but have no RPG elements or even actually be an RPG. There will be three websites used to compare between to come to a consensus (PlaystationTrophies.org, PSNProfiles and TrueTrophies). 
  
3) To make a game count, the Platinum trophy is what needs to be achieved. There will be point considerations given for each individual DLC pack completed and 100% games that might not have a Platinum, because they need love too. Child of Light would be a good example for a 100% game and completing any one of the many DLC's for Neverwinter. 
  
4) The scoring system will not be too complicated, because Maths is hard. Points are awarded for completing the games and modifiers will be added to increase or decrease the score based on difficulty, length of time, amount to be completed and infamy. Each month though I will do an audit to make sure everything is adding up right. 
  
5) I am the final decision maker for any disputes or questions, but I am not a tyrant. There are people who will know more about RPG’s than I do, and in these instances I will trust the judgement of the many or of the well informed.

 

6) Enjoy the games, challenge each other, give each other pointers.

 

If you have any other suggestions or questions please don't hesitate to ask. 

 

Scoring

Spoiler

Platinum scoring would be a base of 100 + trophies earned during competition - Plat rarity - percentage already completed before the event begins. 
  

0-10%: -0 points 

11-35%: -10 points 

36-60% -15 points 

61-80% -20 points 

81% +   -25 points

 

Bronze = 1pt
Silver = 2pts
Gold = 6pts
    
Adventures of Mana  100 base score + 62 trophy points - 26.01 completion rarity - 10 completion negation = 125.99 points scored 
  
Non Plat scoring base of 75 + trophies earned during competition - completion rarity - percent already completed. 
  
DLC will be counted separately from the main game. Each DLC will be counted per trophy that has been earned after the event starts, with each trophy having a flat score per type of trophy. 
Bronze trophies are worth 1 point, silver trophies are worth 2 points and gold trophies are worth 6 points. 

 

Bonuses: 
  
There are ways to really gain an edge and yes bonuses are added together to make good combo. 
  
Double point game - You are allowed two, and you are allowed one swap of each during the event. Declare them before or on the 1st of Feb. 
  
Triple point game - There is one triple point game. Declare it at the same time, it cannot though be in the previous category, and it can be changed once.   
 
Most Wanted: 
I have a list of the most notorious RPG’s around and I’m calling on YOU to help me tame them and lock them up in the vault for good. These games will require lots of effort and time to complete and you should be rewarded for completing these. Each game on this list has a 5x bonus for beating it into submission. These cannot be used as Double or Triple Point Games.

 

Series Stacker: 
A game in a series of more than 3 games is worth an increasing amount of points with each game you complete in the related series and that counts as an RPG.
 
Example:
Kingdom Hearts 1: No bonus
Kingdom Hearts 2: 25 point bonus
Kingdom Hearts RE: Chain of Memories: 50 point bonus
Kingdom Hearts BBS: 75 point bonus

Kingdom Hearts 3 100 point bonus
Etc until there are no games left that count as RPG’s in that series.
 
New game bonus - 50 point bonus for a new game beaten within 30 days of being released. 
 
Speed Run bonus – If completing a game within the top 10% a bonus of 50 points can be added. If there are less than 200 completions of the game in question, for the point bonus to be added, the time must be in the top 25 completions.
 
Call Out Bonus: A competitor will choose a played or unplayed game from your backlog to complete. This will be another x3 opportunity. 
You may only call out one other person who is competing and only call out games that can be seen on their backlog.
 
Example: Final Fantasy XV = 100 base score + 70 trophy points - 28.16 completion rarity - 0 completion negation = 141.84 points scored * bonuses ( 3 (Triple Point Game) +  3 (Call Out)  = 141.84*6 + 50 point speed bonus = 901.04 total points.

 

Other Score FAQ’s 

Spoiler

You cannot receive a negative score.  If for some reason your subtractions would make you go below 0, that is where you would stop.

 

There is no stacking in the event. Remasters and games with similar naming conventions (eg. Soul Sacrifice and Soul Sacrifice Delta) which share the same base game with no real difference in gameplay or content, only one can be considered for points.

 

Autopopping games will also score no points.

 

Score Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16QaxF0p4nxp-haTgsQ_80A4lnl5aXWLI/edit?usp=drivesdk&ouid=101961992127660437405&rtpof=true&sd=true

 

Most Wanted:

Guided Fate Paradox

Cross Edge

The Elder Scrolls Online

Mugen Souls

Touhou Genso Wanderer

Shiren The Wanderer

Disgaea 4

Star Ocean: Til the End of Time

Star Ocean: The Last Hope

Record of Agarest War Zero

Final Fantasy XIV

Diablo II: Resurrected

Edited April 18, 2023 by Psy-Tychist
Finished Event

[Psy-Tychist]

New features to be added: 

 

• Form for ease of points scoring and posting

• New rules for vetos and game length

• Better access to points spreadsheet and slight change to points

All other ideas are welcome to add fairness to the competition.

[Spinacheq]

Sign me up pls.   

[Mesopithecus]

5 hours ago, Psy-Tychist said:

New features to be added: 

 

• Form for ease of points scoring and posting

• New rules for vetos and game length

• Better access to points spreadsheet and slight change to points

All other ideas are welcome to add fairness to the competition.

 

I think maybe a randomizer for callouts would be good - so instead of participants just picking their friends to call out, instead they are assigned 3 other participants at random to call out.  I'm also still a big advocate for a scoring system that takes completion time into account - just because there are a lot of RPGs now that are on the shorter side (Kemco and others) and it doesn't seem fair to me that those games would be as valuable as say a 60 hour or 100 hour platinum - it would take a bit more work, but I know some events in the past have used the 25th percentile as a marker for completion time.

 

I'm on the fence right now about whether I want to join again this year, but I wanted to throw those ideas out there as a previous participant.

[willythom88]

I'm super in for this.  Was already doing something like this and given how poorly I did last year guess I can redeem my self a smidge.

[Deadly_Ha_Ha]

This is a really interesting idea. I really like that you are rewarding rarity in the points breakdown. I think I'd like to participate, I just probably won't do too well

[fisty123]

5 hours ago, Mesopithecus said:

 

I think maybe a randomizer for callouts would be good - so instead of participants just picking their friends to call out, instead they are assigned 3 other participants at random to call out.  I'm also still a big advocate for a scoring system that takes completion time into account - just because there are a lot of RPGs now that are on the shorter side (Kemco and others) and it doesn't seem fair to me that those games would be as valuable as say a 60 hour or 100 hour platinum - it would take a bit more work, but I know some events in the past have used the 25th percentile as a marker for completion time.

 

I'm on the fence right now about whether I want to join again this year, but I wanted to throw those ideas out there as a previous participant.

This seems to be a direct response to me and the members I know outsite of this leaderboard given I was apart of just about everything you wanted changed.

Call out, Yes the four involved with are members from another site and we have been a team in events in the past however our callouts were not easy or short games in the end only 1 game was completed out of all our callouts for all of us combined.
The first year this leaderboard took off we had a random callout system, the person I got never responded so I was never allowed to have a call out game for that year seems a bit unfair there if that were to happen again.

Kemco and smaller titles, unless you are the first person to finish it you are already at a disadvantage some of these Kemco games have plat rates of 60% or more due to the small amout of gamers who have played it. That's a fair chuck of points you have to remove with how this scoring system is setup.
I did a Kemco month and 3 games all taking me 15-20 hours to finish worked out to be the same amount of points for someone who did a 40 hour game in one instance, so it took me longer to get the same amount of points, also keep in mind newer RPGs are appealing to western markets and even more so if you skip all cut scenes can be completed in 30 hours or less.
Take Tales of Arise for instance it won RPG of the year on most sites yet if you skip all the story the platinum tine would fall way into the short RPG section given even when playing normally with a new very easy mode you can do it under 40 hours without skipping content

Then you need to ask well what classes as a short game some Kemco titles go above that 25 hour threshold if your playing the game how it should be it's only shorter if buy DLC or skip content, so should someone that played the game normally be punished becomes the next person brought all the DLC and only took 15 hours instead of someone not buying the DLC and reading all text took 25 - 30 hours?

 

25% marker only works when a game is popular, some JRPGs or indie titles have a very high completion rate due to small amount of gamers playing them, lost count the amount of times over the past couple of years doing this comp were I go well that took me 80ish hours but I lost so many points due to the 40 people who have played this game before me 30 of them still got the plat, at times it made me hate the score system in place so I balanced it out with some shorter titles which had less plat rate due to more players playing them,

[Mesopithecus]

7 minutes ago, fisty123 said:

This seems to be a direct response to me and the members I know outsite of this leaderboard given I was apart of just about everything you wanted changed.
 

 

Just to clarify, it wasn't a direct response, as I myself called out people I'm friends with outside of this site.  And if you look back to before the last RPG Mania started, I suggested having a time based metric then too - I was just raising that point again for consideration.  I'm sorry you took what I was saying as a personal thing, because it wasn't intended that way.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Mesopithecus

[Sanevin]

Ooh this sounds like fun, sign me up!  What date do we need to have our double/triple point games by?  The top post says Feb 1st.

[fisty123]

10 minutes ago, Mesopithecus said:

 

Just to clarify, it wasn't a direct response, as I myself called out people I'm friends with outside of this site.  And if you look back to before the last RPG Mania started, I suggested having a time based metric then too - I was just raising that point again for consideration.  I'm sorry you took what I was saying as a personal thing, because it wasn't intended that way.

All good, last season I received some nice personal inbox messages from a couple of members who accused us of cheating for doing this (in a free comp with no reward) so I just assumed it was the same stance sorry for taking it that way.

Not having a go and I have no issues with the random selection I just got burned with it in the first year so as long as there is a fallback to prevent someone not missing out then I got no issues with it being random.

[Mesopithecus]

1 minute ago, fisty123 said:

All good, last season I received some nice personal inbox messages from a couple of members who accused us of cheating for doing this (in a free comp with no reward) so I just assumed it was the same stance sorry for taking it that way.

Not having a go and I have no issues with the random selection I just got burned with it in the first year so as long as there is a fallback to prevent someone not missing out then I got no issues with it being random.

 

I didn't even realize during the first year that there was a random selection, so knowing now that it didn't work so well that time definitely changes my stance on it.  Also I'm sorry that people sent you messages and accused you of cheating, that's not OK at all.  As I mentioned, I called out friends too mainly as I'm more familiar with their backlogs, games they are working on - I know for sure I definitely didn't finish any of my callouts during the event.  I guess as well it relies on everyone who signs up being active.

[AppleKratue]

15 hours ago, Psy-Tychist said:

New features to be added: 

 

• Form for ease of points scoring and posting

• New rules for vetos and game length

• Better access to points spreadsheet and slight change to points

All other ideas are welcome to add fairness to the competition.

 

Thanks for doing it again, sign me up!

I'd add a rule that no autopops are allowed, especially the PS4 -> PS5 ones, as it can be exploited when someone gets a PS5 within the year and earns easy points from autopopping all the available PS4 RPGs.

Regarding callouts, I wouldn't mind doing randomized callouts, but I suggest that the whole callout system is only active when everyone has done their callouts to have it fair for everyone. It would be everyone has callouts or no one.

 

EDIT:

Almost forgot, but somewhat important regardless. I personally wasn't a fan of adding points for games that weren't posted in this thread and would therefore make it mandatory to post here when a game is completed and points should count. I think the behaviour of checking profiles for completed games somewhat led to inactivity towards the end as points are counted anyway. I am not sure if there was someone who signed up and never posted again, but it would be possible. It also makes less work for you. If someone is unsure whether a game counts, they can post and ask.

Edited March 1, 2022 by AppleKratue

[Lord_Bane999]

I'll be in again, hoping I can power through some games this time around without work getting to hectic again.

 

Btw on the topic of callouts I thought about the friend thing too as mentioned. But honestly I mean the chances are I would say pretty high that people in any "competition" on this site would be friends with possibly even a couple people that would be interested or play similar games. But at the same point I don't think it would give anyone a wide advantage especially if there's limits in place.

 

For example one could for this could limit the callouts even more. Can only callout a different player once each time, can only callout three times total the whole season. A person who is called out can only have a max of 2 callouts at once as to encourage them to finish those games. Make the callout bonus vary for the length of game.

 

The last change would be hard to implement and isn't necessary but more control on points earned. But basically if you got called out on a game 20 hours or less let's say you only get a 1.25 bonus multiplier, if it's 40 or less 1.5 bonus, 60 or less 1.75, etc. Bonus caps off at 3x.

[Leon Castle]

Not sure if I join this year's RPG Mania, still plan to play some RPGs this year.

 

This might sound like a dumb idea, but maybe add a list of each player's already started RPGs to the spreadsheet, so each player can see percentage they started the event so they would know what negative points they get if they forgotten the percentage.

 

The callout system going back to random selection and that callout system is only active if all Competitors gave out a callout is nice ideas, maybe the callout system should go back to one callout per Competitor so there's only 2 times a Competitor could get a 3x Bonus like the 2020 ver. did.

 

On 2/28/2022 at 6:42 PM, Psy-Tychist said:

New rules for vetos

If this new veto rule let's me not worrying if I have to count Non-RPGs as RPGs like One Piece: Pirate Warriors 2 and Muv-Luv etc.

[Sanevin]

For the Callout system, maybe getting 1 every so often would be better?  Instead of having 3 right off the bat, you get one you can use once every 3 or 4 months.  Might keep participation throughout the year, and if somebody goes AFK part way through you're not wasting a callout on them right at the beginning.

[Eternal_Rach]

I’ll sign up again. This competition last year motivated me to complete more games then what I usually achieve in that time frame and I mainly play RPGs so it’s a no brainer! I’m still spending way too much time then I should on Genshin Impact even after completing the trophy list so I’m not sure if my participation will be as high as last year.

 

Here are my thoughts on proposed changes or things I noticed from last year. I’m perfectly fine if none of these get implemented but I want to throw them out there anyway!

 

Time bonuses

I’m not sure if I’m for this or against this. I might have more to say when we know exactly how these bonuses are to be added. I feel like it’s one of those things that it’s hard to find a definitive answer on as everyone completes games at a different rate. Just because a site lists a game at 40 hours doesn’t mean it’s going to take every person that long so there will inevitably be undercutting or over awarding of points. If it is added the only thing I can suggest is to either scrap the most wanted list/bonus or have the time bonus not count on most wanted games otherwise we are kind of double dipping on points for those. 

 

Callouts

I didn’t really have any problems with how callouts were done last year. I’m fine with randomised callouts or us choosing our own again. I do think we need to implement a counter measure so people don’t miss out though. Possibly could set a date that all callouts need to be submitted by and if after that there are people who didn’t receive all their callouts Psy could nominate games for them instead. This way no one gets burnt by inactive competitors. 

 

Voting

I kind of want to see voting for games that we believe are RPGs but aren’t listed as such make a return in this season. We all have different ideas of what an RPG is and we all know how inaccurate genre tagging can be on most sites. It can be frustrating to complete a game that in your mind 100% counted only to find out it actually didn’t. I understand voting would require a fair amount of work and activity from all competitors but maybe this can be limited. You could set the amount of game challenges we can make in the season and set the amount of votes required for a game to count. 

 

Stacking

I touched on this last year and I understand it’s not in the spirit of the event but would still like to bring it up for potential changes. I propose that it be allowed specifically for remasters or enhanced editions with a few restrictions. The trophy list would be required to be different (either a specific amount of trophies or a percentage of trophies must be different). Could restrict the stack to be on a seperate console from the original. The stack will not count in part of a series bonus and can’t be picked as a double/triple/callout game. If that still seems too lenient could add a point penalty on top of the above restrictions. 

 

-The main reason I’m suggesting this is because personally I’m the type of gamer that likes to complete a block of games together. An example of this is I want to play The Witch and the Hundred Knight (PS3), The Witch and the Hundred Knight Revival Edition (PS4), The Witch and The Hundred Knight 2. Regardless of what counts and doesn’t count for this competition when I play them I’ll be playing them in that order. Playing The Witch and the Hundred Knight Revival Edition after playing the original game doesn’t make it any less of an RPG. It’s not necessarily going to cut out a heap of the time required to complete it either. I’d rather receive some points from it, even reduced points, then nothing at all.

[Sendai-Horatio]

There's even more RPGs I want to play this year, I guess I'll sign up.

[Lord_Bane999]

20 hours ago, Leon Castle said:

If this new veto rule let's me not worrying if I have to count Non-RPGs as RPGs like One Piece: Pirate Warriors 2 and Muv-Luv etc.

Wait Muv-Luv actually has a RPG tag on it? Lol

[Arctic Cress]

I will sign up again. This time around I hope to not wait three whole months before actually finishing a RPG.

 

29 minutes ago, Lord_Bane999 said:

Wait Muv-Luv actually has a RPG tag on it? Lol

 

Yeah, it does. The problem with PSNP's genre tags are they're from another website all together. I think TrueTrophies does it best, by asking the people who have played the game what the genres are, and making it easy to dispute if someone later finds it incorrect.

[Lord_Bane999]

47 minutes ago, Arctic Cress said:

I will sign up again. This time around I hope to not wait three whole months before actually finishing a RPG.

 

 

Yeah, it does. The problem with PSNP's genre tags are they're from another website all together. I think TrueTrophies does it best, by asking the people who have played the game what the genres are, and making it easy to dispute if someone later finds it incorrect.

I'm just more shocked that anywhere would have it as an RPG, I mean probably one of the top 3 most well known VNs.

 

18 hours ago, Eternal_Rach said:

Stacking

I touched on this last year and I understand it’s not in the spirit of the event but would still like to bring it up for potential changes. I propose that it be allowed specifically for remasters or enhanced editions with a few restrictions. The trophy list would be required to be different (either a specific amount of trophies or a percentage of trophies must be different). Could restrict the stack to be on a seperate console from the original. The stack will not count in part of a series bonus and can’t be picked as a double/triple/callout game. If that still seems too lenient could add a point penalty on top of the above restrictions. 

 

-The main reason I’m suggesting this is because personally I’m the type of gamer that likes to complete a block of games together. An example of this is I want to play The Witch and the Hundred Knight (PS3), The Witch and the Hundred Knight Revival Edition (PS4), The Witch and The Hundred Knight 2. Regardless of what counts and doesn’t count for this competition when I play them I’ll be playing them in that order. Playing The Witch and the Hundred Knight Revival Edition after playing the original game doesn’t make it any less of an RPG. It’s not necessarily going to cut out a heap of the time required to complete it either. I’d rather receive some points from it, even reduced points, then nothing at all.

I get that and think it's fair myself, I mean I agree that some games even if not counting towards the series stacker having their points nullified completely is a bit much.

 

Plus some titles like FF7 Remake are a separate game from their original (without spoiling the story, most people without any prior knowledge would assume it is only that, but I'm sure there is other titles similar in execution.

[fisty123]

21 hours ago, Lord_Bane999 said:

Wait Muv-Luv actually has a RPG tag on it? Lol

 

20 hours ago, Arctic Cress said:

I will sign up again. This time around I hope to not wait three whole months before actually finishing a RPG.

 

 

Yeah, it does. The problem with PSNP's genre tags are they're from another website all together. I think TrueTrophies does it best, by asking the people who have played the game what the genres are, and making it easy to dispute if someone later finds it incorrect.

It also worked the other way, when PSNP decided to show genre tags and when it was found out what site the information came from (I can't remember the site now) There were long time members of that site changing game tags when they felt their decision to remove a tag was right. It was called out a few times back then but I lost all interest in it and never seen the final outcome.

True Trophies is the closest one supporting PSN when it comes to genre listings but they also break a lot of it up for example a turn based RPG will sometimes just get the turn base tag only, now most people will go yep that's RPG but not everyone. Another issue with them is sometimes they are too this or that, a game that may have RPG elements and build using an RPG base but the game style is Metroidvania they will only list is as a Metroidvania game.

Due to above I feel a vote type system would be good or a call out system, most people check this leaderboard from time to time even without posting but if we see an update and go hang on a minute I played that and it is not an RPG then we call it out for review one that came to mind in last season was Chicory: A Colorful Tale, it has a the RPG tag here  on PSNP but a few of us played it and went yep it's no RPG, there was some tiny parts maybe but no where near enough to count so it got called out and we decided not to allow it.
What this also did was bring a topic to the board allow members to interact instead of just being update posts.

Another one I tend to check is Steam, I don't use Stream personally but normally their tags are pretty close however sometimes go tag crazy and add a few that are not really needed.

[Mesopithecus]

OK, I've made the decision to sign up again.  Even if I might not have as much time to play, let's face it...nearly all the games I plan to play are RPGs and this event is chill enough where I don't feel uber competitive.

 

Also, I 100% support the voting suggestion that has been brought up.

[fisty123]

Forgot to mention I shall sign up again, will pick bonuses and so on closer to the starting date.

[Laburnski]

Sign me up! 

 

Time to show everyone my true powa ! >=O ?

[Sendai-Horatio]

Question would the Fate Extella games be considered RPGs since they have a leveling and equipment ability system? They were similar to Dynasty Warriors games but many Action RPGs have taken this route like both Utawarerumono Zan games and some Dynasty Warriors games like Dragon Quest Heroes do have the RPG tag on them.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Sendai-Horatio