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Why are they doing this? Platinum rant.


Valkyre4

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Bro I've got the plat for every souls/fromsotf games including remasters and I plan on plating this as well. It's an open world and it'll be impossible to get every trophy in one go anyway because of the 3 endings required to plat as well.

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Like everyone else has said this is by far the easiest souls game to plat. No covenant stuff, Don't have to get all spells/gestures/etc just less than 10 legendary items in each category, all but one or two of them aren't even missable. Other than Malenia none of the fights even took more than 5 tries thanks to Mimic tear.

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I'm sure there has been plenty of people who have already commented on what I am about to say but this was the first souls game I actually completed. Took my time on the first playthrough and managed to clean up the rest of the trophies (collectibles, endings, optional bosses etc.) in 2 more playthroughs (using guides) which in total took maybe no more than 8-15 hours to speed through the game and get all the other trophies with a total game time of 125 hours (a good 20 hours of that was either exploring completely optional areas or rune farming for later game). Of course if you would rather not use a guide then it would take quite a lot longer but overall the trophy list isn't as long or tedious as it looks at first! just be sure to farm up some runes and upgrade your mimic tear if you find some of the optional bosses a pain to fight like I did :D 

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4 hours ago, DocWong said:

Bro I've got the plat for every souls/fromsotf games including remasters and I plan on plating this as well. It's an open world and it'll be impossible to get every trophy in one go anyway because of the 3 endings required to plat as well.

That’s not at all true. The magic of uploading / syncing your saves to PSN lets you circumvent that. The first Souls to let you Platinum on NG, unless you were duping in Demon’s Souls. 

4 hours ago, SpaceIsDandy said:

Like everyone else has said this is by far the easiest souls game to plat. No covenant stuff, Don't have to get all spells/gestures/etc just less than 10 legendary items in each category, all but one or two of them aren't even missable. Other than Malenia none of the fights even took more than 5 tries thanks to Mimic tear.

I got Bloodborne Plat on NG+2 in 43:09, Elden Ring NG in 75:10~. Although Cursed Amygdala and the Flame Dog was an absolute PITA, not even comparable to Godfrey, and Malenia as a Caster. 

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4 hours ago, SpaceIsDandy said:

Like everyone else has said this is by far the easiest souls game to plat. No covenant stuff, Don't have to get all spells/gestures/etc just less than 10 legendary items in each category, all but one or two of them aren't even missable. Other than Malenia none of the fights even took more than 5 tries thanks to Mimic tear.

 

Agree, it is the easiest to platinum, especially with a good bleed build. Bosses get destroyed with bleed build and using Mimic Spirit.

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10 hours ago, SwicySauce said:

This platinum was almost too easy if anything in retrospect. Compared with other souls games where you're grinding obscure multiplayer drops and upgrading every weapon type

 

And dont forget the 3x ng+ that is needed for rings in ds3 or the tails from bosses for the weapons in ds1.

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I don't even understand this thread. There's only one missable item as far as I'm aware right? And even then, you could EASILY get on your horse in NG+ and go straight to where that item is.

 

This game is long as fuck I'll give you that but the platinum is probably the easiest Soulsborne plat to get aside from maybe Bloodborne. No covenant item grinding, no collecting multiple of the same boss soul to craft into weapons/spells and no upgrading each type of weapon to the max.

 

It's really straight forward I have no idea what you lot are complaining about.

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25 minutes ago, jonesey46 said:

I don't even understand this thread. There's only one missable item as far as I'm aware right? And even then, you could EASILY get on your horse in NG+ and go straight to where that item is.

 

This game is long as fuck I'll give you that but the platinum is probably the easiest Soulsborne plat to get aside from maybe Bloodborne. No covenant item grinding, no collecting multiple of the same boss soul to craft into weapons/spells and no upgrading each type of weapon to the max.

 

It's really straight forward I have no idea what you lot are complaining about.

 

Probably their first souls game, dont know how more difficult the other souls games are to get platinum on.

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I do agree with what you're trying to say but you made the mistake of not realising that any FromSoftware fan will always disagree with you and will never see any wrong doings. I do find it laughable that a lot of them will defend 100+ hour missable trophies for the sake of "exploring the world" and having multiple playthroughs, but those people clearly don't have other priorities in life and play games all day.

Just don't platinum it, it never was going to be a 'fair' platinum anyway.

Edited by CosmoWolf_
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23 minutes ago, CosmoWolf_ said:

I do agree with what you're trying to say but you made the mistake of not realising that any FromSoftware fan will always disagree with you and will never see any wrong doings. I do find it laughable that a lot of them will defend 100+ hour missable trophies for the sake of "exploring the world" and having multiple playthroughs, but those people clearly don't have other priorities in life and play games all day.

Just don't platinum it, it never was going to be a 'fair' platinum anyway.

 

There is only 2 missable trophies and that is ranni quest and the lich dragon with fia quest as apparantly some players are already reporting that the "missable" weapon in golden city is not missable. They got it later in the game still. And multiple playthroughs is also wrong as you can save scum after last boss to get all 3 ending trophies if you did ranni and frenzy flame requirements. But yes the platinum does take over 100 hours if you explore everything. 

Edited by Belmont85-
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This man be complaning about the grindy nature of the game's trophy progression while having several platinums of grindy rpgs? makes me think
 

On 3/10/2022 at 9:15 PM, Red_HoodXX said:

Anyone complaining about this platinum having (very few) missables never farmed Pure Bladestone in the original Demon's Souls.

 

Also man you can just use the dupe glitch with Stockpile Thomas to clone like 99x Bladestone, all you need is at least one bladestone or what ever else you're trying to clone

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WARNING: The "Bolt of Gransax" is not the only missable legendary item in the game, "Devourer's Scepter" is also missable. PSNProfiles guide warns you that it is buggy but PowerPyx guide doesn't even mention it. Just in case someone is reading this forum but is using PowerPyx's guide for whatever reason, be warned

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1 hour ago, ay-Man77 said:

WARNING: The "Bolt of Gransax" is not the only missable legendary item in the game, "Devourer's Scepter" is also missable. PSNProfiles guide warns you that it is buggy but PowerPyx guide doesn't even mention it. Just in case someone is reading this forum but is using PowerPyx's guide for whatever reason, be warned

 

You could go into NG+ and take care of that rather quickly. NPC Invasion cannot happen if you clear the boss first, that's all it is, not a bug.

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2 hours ago, ay-Man77 said:

WARNING: The "Bolt of Gransax" is not the only missable legendary item in the game, "Devourer's Scepter" is also missable. PSNProfiles guide warns you that it is buggy but PowerPyx guide doesn't even mention it. Just in case someone is reading this forum but is using PowerPyx's guide for whatever reason, be warned

If you miss it, takes all of 10 minutes from starting NG+ to get it.

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I still don't get all these people defending missable collectibles you can lock yourself out of. Especially with arguments like "so easy to get in NG+, just go there" and blabla. You all just saying that because you know this thanks to the fact that you looked up the information on the internet! Would you just play the game and communicate with nobody, you wouldn't know shit!

 

I come from a time when we had to play our games without the help of the internet.

 

Imagine, just as a thought experiment, that there wasn't any internet and the trophies were in-game achievements in Elden Ring.

 

Now there's this in-game achievement that says "collect all the legendary weapons". Alright, kinda straightforward. Go and look for weapons everywhere!

 

But due to the fact that you don't have internet, there is no way of knowing that you can actually miss one of the weapons and lock yourself out of it. There is no indication of this in the game whatsoever. Now imagine you are past the point where the weapon becomes unavailable, but you don't know it. And the achievement is still locked, indicating to you that there should be at least one more weapon out there, right? So, for all you know, the weapon could still be available somewhere in the world. You could literally scour the world of Elden Ring for hundreds of hours and be none the wiser, looking for that one missing weapon like a fool for what feels like an eternity! In what world would this be considered fun??

 

That is, in my humble opinion, bad design and nothing else, and the internet being a thing doesn't excuse it. You people are all so used to just looking shit up that you forget that it isn't supposed to be like this. You should be able to play a game and if there is something you can lock yourself out of in there, at the very least the game itself should somehow indicate this, either by telling you"hey now you cannot complete that list anymore" or, better, by telling you "here's a point of no return, are you sure you want to proceed? you might not be able to do everything the game offers afterward" or something similar. But even better would be - gasp - not to have stuff tied to something that you can lock yourself out of! I know, progressive, unimaginable, mindblowing modern stuff, right?:P

 

And when I'm saying that you should not have to look up things, I'm not talking about being stuck somewhere in a game and looking up tips, I'm talking about literally not knowing that you are screwed out of something in the game and the only way of knowing is by looking up on the internet if anything might be missable.

 

There was stuff like this in games long before trophies were a thing or even the PlayStation was a thing and the only way to find out was to buy an (often expensive) guide or because you were lucky enough to know somebody who knew somebody who knew what was going on in the game and it reached you by word of mouth.

It was bad then and it is still bad now. Players never should HAVE TO look up a guide just to understand their situation.

 

And don't confuse this with me being against secrets in games or something like that. Secrets in games are cool but if a secret is tied to some form or progression in a game like a list or something to it and you can lock yourself out of it without the game giving clues or no indications that "hey, you did something that locked you out of completing this list", then it is bullshit.

 

Especially since it is avoidable. There is literally no need to make f.ex. a weapon missable (in the sense of locking the player out of getting it after a certain point in the game). There are a plethora of means to avoid this. So to the people that say "there is only one weapon missable and it's so easy to get blabla", I say "it would be better if there was no missable weapon at all". 

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4 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

This is where your argument breaks down, and devolves into obstinate refusal to accept the very tenets of the genre to which the game in question belongs.

 

 

Souls games - in particular FROM souls games - are specifically designed to be obtuse, and designed to be virtually impossible for a single person to figure out all the minutiae of alone. 

 

While I will always strongly advocate for people avoiding full guides for these games, the idea that someone is supposed to earn the platinum without ever even talking to anyone else represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the genre.

The idea that individuals are supposed to "solve" the whole game by themselves, without any communication with their fellow players is simply not, and never has been, the case with these games.

 

Miyazaki himself has said that part of the original ethos was to create games that allowed for the communication that the internet and mass-solving of games caters for, by "upping the ante" so to speak - by creating puzzles that large groups of people could puzzle over, and solve as a loose conglomerate.

 

The games are deliberately confusing for an individual player- he was trying to replicate the lost, confused wonder he felt when, as a child, he read western fantasy novels, but didn't fully speak the language.

That is an admirable and interesting conceptual design - but it is not one that should - or can - be solved in a vacuum. You are meant to talk to other people, and piece together the secrets as a group... that's how people "learn the language.".

 

Using a roadmap and following a guide to the letter isn't the desired intention of course... but talking to other people is - whether that is in the schoolyard, or in work, or among friend, or - yes - on forums. That isn't just part of the experience... it is the experience. 

 

It's why playing these games at launch when the conversation is in the zeitgeist is such a rewarding and different experience than playing six months or a year after the fact, after everything has already been solved, and is known.

 

There is a world of difference between using a roadmap and guide, and discussing things you found, and clues and secrets you discovered, and comparing notes with fellow gamers on the same journey.

 

One is ruinous to the overall experience, the other is the experience.

 

 

 

 

everything you said could also be achieved without having missables that you can lock yourself out of. ;) Again having obscure secrets is one thing, making said obscure secrets unavailable at some point in the game without players even knowing, is something else. I mean I literally said in my post that secrets are cool. The problem is not that stuff is secret or obscure. The problem is that being locked out of stuff is also kept secret and can cause unnecessary frustration to players that's easily avoidable.

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3 minutes ago, Sicho said:

 

everything you said could also be achieved without having missables that you can lock yourself out of. ;) Again having obscure secrets is one thing, making said obscure secrets unavailable at some point in the game without players even knowing, is something else. I mean I literally said in my post that secrets are cool. The problem is not that stuff is secret or obscure. The problem is that being locked out of stuff is also kept secret and can cause unnecessary frustration to players that's easily avoidable.

 

I disagree.

 

If the game was designed so nothing was missable in a single playthrough at all, then barely any of the Souls secrets would work.

 

There couldn't be multiple endings.

 

NPC quest lines wouldn't work, because they would have to be entirely separate from the players journey, and have nothing to do with the main game, since they would need to be doable after that narrative was concluded.

 

The game world could never change, since no path could ever be closed off; no secrets could ever be dependent on player action, since all elements would need to be endlessly repeatable; every NPC would need to be invincible, since the player could never be allowed to close off anything; and no multiple or secret ways to achieve things would be possible, since the player would negate them by progressing normally.

 

Making things 'missable' in a playthrough is virtually the only way to actually have the depth of secrets Souls games offer. :dunno:

 

 

That is all not to mention the fact that - as many folks here have pointed out - all souls games are cyclical, and have NG+, NG++, NG+++ etc.

It's kinda hard to argue that anything is missable, when the game itself is designed for people to keep repeating over and over, and finding new things each time.

 

 

 

In the end, your argument is asinine anyway, since it's based on a foundation of hypocrisy.

 

You claim that there shouldn't be missable, since you don't want to look up information online...

...but you wouldn't even know there were 'missable', if you hadn't found that information online.

 

If you hadn't, you'd just think they were things you hadn't found yet...

...and we wouldn't be having this conversation. :dunno:

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I disagree.

 

If the game was designed so nothing was missable in a single playthrough at all, then barely any of the Souls secrets would work.

 

 

only if you are very uncreative and thinking in very unflexible ways. There are so many different ways of achieving depth, even more depth than Souls games offer, without resorting to any of the things that you mentioned. I mean the Souls games aren't even the deepest games out there by a country mile. A shitton of games with elaborate, amazing secrets are out there as well that also feature game worlds that change but don't have missable trophies.

 

You say for example that no path could be closed off. Of course, it could. Just make sure that you don't put any important items on that path. ;) Many games are able to do this or have fallbacks in place that enable you to still get the item via other means.

 

I mean, another possibility would be to have secrets that don't give you missable stuff as a reward but simply XP or story exposure or something. Or the secrets can be one way of many to acquire a certain item but not the only one. Or, or, or ...

 

You are saying that their way is the only way to do things. I say it is one of many ways to do things and I argue that it isn't necessarily the best way or at least I would argue that the same experience could be crafted by using other means.

 

Also, you are confusing different story possibilities with locking players out of items or achievements. There can be multiple endings and different stories in games without locking the player out of items or achievements/trophies. The same is true for NPC storylines and whatnot. You could have missable "experiences" in the game without tying them to missable items and trophies and so on. For example, you can play hundreds of hours of Skyrim and never encounter M'aiq the Liar. But you are also not missing out on any legendary items or something if you don't encounter him. So he is a secret but not finding that secret doesn't really lock the player out of anything, other than the experience of encountering him and talking to him and so on.

 

What you are saying sounds to me as if you are thinking that if that one weapon in Elden Ring that is missable wasn't missable, the whole game would be worse. I'd say the game could even be better if said weapon was hidden away in a secret dungeon with a really cool boss fight rather than it just lying somewhere that becomes inaccessible at some point in the game. 

Elden Ring could be exactly the same game as it is right now but without having trophies that you can lock yourself out of. It would take nothing away from the game. The endings would still be there, the questlines would still be there, etc.

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2 hours ago, Sicho said:

I still don't get all these people defending missable collectibles you can lock yourself out of. Especially with arguments like "so easy to get in NG+, just go there" and blabla. You all just saying that because you know this thanks to the fact that you looked up the information on the internet! Would you just play the game and communicate with nobody, you wouldn't know shit!

 

I come from a time when we had to play our games without the help of the internet.

 

Imagine, just as a thought experiment, that there wasn't any internet and the trophies were in-game achievements in Elden Ring.

 

Now there's this in-game achievement that says "collect all the legendary weapons". Alright, kinda straightforward. Go and look for weapons everywhere!

 

But due to the fact that you don't have internet, there is no way of knowing that you can actually miss one of the weapons and lock yourself out of it. There is no indication of this in the game whatsoever. Now imagine you are past the point where the weapon becomes unavailable, but you don't know it. And the achievement is still locked, indicating to you that there should be at least one more weapon out there, right? So, for all you know, the weapon could still be available somewhere in the world. You could literally scour the world of Elden Ring for hundreds of hours and be none the wiser, looking for that one missing weapon like a fool for what feels like an eternity! In what world would this be considered fun??

 

That is, in my humble opinion, bad design and nothing else, and the internet being a thing doesn't excuse it. You people are all so used to just looking shit up that you forget that it isn't supposed to be like this. You should be able to play a game and if there is something you can lock yourself out of in there, at the very least the game itself should somehow indicate this, either by telling you"hey now you cannot complete that list anymore" or, better, by telling you "here's a point of no return, are you sure you want to proceed? you might not be able to do everything the game offers afterward" or something similar. But even better would be - gasp - not to have stuff tied to something that you can lock yourself out of! I know, progressive, unimaginable, mindblowing modern stuff, right?:P

 

And when I'm saying that you should not have to look up things, I'm not talking about being stuck somewhere in a game and looking up tips, I'm talking about literally not knowing that you are screwed out of something in the game and the only way of knowing is by looking up on the internet if anything might be missable.

 

There was stuff like this in games long before trophies were a thing or even the PlayStation was a thing and the only way to find out was to buy an (often expensive) guide or because you were lucky enough to know somebody who knew somebody who knew what was going on in the game and it reached you by word of mouth.

It was bad then and it is still bad now. Players never should HAVE TO look up a guide just to understand their situation.

 

And don't confuse this with me being against secrets in games or something like that. Secrets in games are cool but if a secret is tied to some form or progression in a game like a list or something to it and you can lock yourself out of it without the game giving clues or no indications that "hey, you did something that locked you out of completing this list", then it is bullshit.

 

Especially since it is avoidable. There is literally no need to make f.ex. a weapon missable (in the sense of locking the player out of getting it after a certain point in the game). There are a plethora of means to avoid this. So to the people that say "there is only one weapon missable and it's so easy to get blabla", I say "it would be better if there was no missable weapon at all". 

 

Actually on ps5 version, i did it blind almost all of it, as powerpyx his guide was not even out by then. His guide came out when i was already in mountainpass of giants, and i did not miss the missable weapon, neither did i miss ranni quest and fia quest chain by just talking with the npcs and listening where to go. So you can get the platinum without a guide as long as you talk with all npcs and listen as they say where you need to go next and if you explore everything before killing a main boss of the area always. 

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