SirDarkStalker

[Spoilers] Devs: Please don't make a sequel with the same story, Don't become Ubisoft!

57 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, snakebit10 said:

Hate to tell you, but it is already planned as a trilogy.

 

I think it's fantastic and the story has me roped in. Nearing the end and want to see where it goes from here.

Plz let me know if ur opinion changed after the ending

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As much as I loved this game, the ending was pretty disappointing. There is still room for the Nemisis thing being cool which seems to be an amalgamation of human traits(?!), as if the internet being sentient. But I don't know how much they are going to delve into it. There is also a possibility of it being a rehashed version of Hades. Big Red Orb thing takes over Hephaestus and Aloy destroys it.

 

Still what makes the game is excellent is the world and tribes. A small thread of why I love the world of Horizon so much.

 

 

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20 hours ago, Helyx said:

Maybe I'm just spoiled after the fantastic experience with Ghost of Tsushima, but the story in HFW didn't resonate with me. I'm at the point now (15 hours in?) where I'm just skipping all the dialog and cinematics. The overly dramatic facial expressions are a huge turnoff too.

That's how my experience with HZD went, the 14 hours I played it I skipped every bit of dialogue and cutscene because it was unbearable.

37 minutes ago, DarkHpokinsn said:

I can’t believe you would say that, when the NPCs are far better in this game then the first. They have to give explanations to things somehow, do you want them to just say nothing and never explain anything? Lol Witcher 3 is so overrated, couldn’t even finish it.

When people say that the dialogue/RPG elements of HZD are awful, then choosing to compare anything to that isn't a very great argument. You're literally looking down at the bottom of the barrel for things to compare it to.

 

How's Witcher 3 overrated?

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10 minutes ago, Desmuria said:

Coming from someone who thoroughly enjoyed HZD's story to the point where it lived in my head rent-free until HFW was released, I found myself wanting more after finishing HFW. That is not to say that I didn't enjoy the game. HFW is a fantastic sequel! I spent 50+ hours with it and I relished every moment of it. It felt so good to be back in the world with Aloy and exploring previously unknown lands, especially the whole Las Vegas sequence!

 

There are a number of small things that I wasn't particularly happy with, which I'll spoiler tag for anyone who's still making their way through the story.

 

Nemesis

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I feel that Nemesis is just a continuation of the same (and I hope the developers prove me wrong). In HZD, we had the threat of Hades and we had to take on that massive machine (was it Deathbringer?) Then in HFW, Hades is so easily manipulated by Sylens into giving him information, it made me wonder why he was such a threat in the first place? So, of course, they needed something bigger and better than that, so they introduced Far Zenith and the Specter Prime. Once you defeat them, you find out there something even bigger coming that totally devalues their worth as well. To me, it just feels like each game is just going to make a bigger threat and, right now, I'm not even sure how Aloy et al can even stop something like Nemesis if technologically advanced people like Far Zenith couldn't? Maybe I'm being too skeptical about it. For the record, this doesn't mean I'm not looking forward to the third game. I'm actually intrigued to see where they take the story and how they're going to navigate this clearly huge, life-threatening, world-destroying threat with inferior technology. It's gonna be spicy!

 

Beta

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I might be alone here but I really did not like her as a character and I found her rather redundant. I understand why Far Zenith created an Elisabet Sobeck clone for themselves, but using her as a plot device later in the game to show that she's not a 'true' likeness to Elisabet, more of a defect version of her, signaling Aloy as a more accurate representation of her just seemed a little shallow to me. Let's not even mention the fact that you can have a romance with Beta after Aloy had previously referred to her as her 'sister'. Whatever floats your boat, I guess!

 

Ted Faro

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The entirety of the Thebes section of the game felt a little filler-y to me and I genuinely feel they missed a huge opportunity by hiding what Ted Faro had become. You don't see him! He's hidden behind a wall and then set on fire. I'm definitely a 'show, don't tell' person and I'd feel that it would've been a better pay-off had we actually seen what he did to himself, especially after a 30 minute sequence. I felt deeply disappointed that Aloy didn't have the opportunity to confront him, as her feud with him is definitely personal now that we know that Aloy is an Elisabet Sobeck clone. Imagine the possibilites of him seeing Aloy and thinking she's Elisabet, seeing her again for the first time in hundreds/thousands of years?! To have Ceo, a really minor (and annoying) character destroy Ted Faro felt like a huge waste. I didn't even want a fight scene with him (or that would've been too Resident Evil-esque, considering his mutations) but just a short cutscene would've sufficed. Personal opinion: they dropped the ball a little, especially after making Thebes an entire chapter in the game.

 

Again, to be absolutely clear, I'm not dumping on the game at all. I loved it. I'm excited for the third one and I'm interested to see what they do with Nemesis!

Obviously this discussion is mostly about Nemesis, but I'd love to see opinions about Beta/Ted and their arcs in the story and whether I'm being too critical or not. I'm intrigued to know!

You can have a romance with beta? How?

I agree with most of your points. But I think I have had enough of this world saving thing. If the next game is about fighting nemesis I won't buy it. And also not showing Ted Faro, I really hated that. We are not 5 years old kids. Let us see the damn thing. :| One more reason the story feels childish.  

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Posted (edited)

25 minutes ago, SirDarkStalker said:

You can have a romance with beta? How?

 

Okay, maybe I misinterpreted what the 'flashpoints' were all about. I always chose the brain option because I wanted Aloy not to be romantically involved with anyone.

I was under the impression that the heart options implied a more loving tone to her responses and, having not seen their outcomes, I assumed that's what the implications were. I stand corrected!

 

25 minutes ago, SirDarkStalker said:

And also not showing Ted Faro, I really hated that. We are not 5 years old kids. Let us see the damn thing. :| One more reason the story feels childish.  

 

I don't think it was a childish move not to show him.

Spoiler

They obviously wanted to have Ted Faro's mutations up to interpretation and, in some ways, it works. However, from a story standpoint (plus, the fact that they made the Thebes thing a central plot point), I felt that they could have given us a lot more than they did. Considering the fact that he was one of the main antagonists from HZD, it felt pretty disappointing (not) to see him go up in flames without any kind of remorse or comeuppance at the hands of Aloy.

 

25 minutes ago, SirDarkStalker said:

If the next game is about fighting nemesis I won't buy it.

 

I really don't know where they're going to go with the story. If it does turn out to be a generic "this enemy is bigger than the last, so you need to fight it" thing, I'll still buy the game and appreciate it for what it is. However, after making such amazing plot choices in HZD, I think they can really do something special if they try. I can't wait!

Edited by Desmuria
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1 hour ago, SirDarkStalker said:

If the next game is about fighting nemesis I won't buy it.

Well the gameplay is still going to be Aloy vs machines, and Hephaestus escaped, so Nemesis will be controlling him in the next one. Unless Aloy is going to space and fighting other kind of machines.

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Has anything in the game ever explained how Zeniths are flying in the air? Or are we just supposed to believe they are DragonBall/Marvel superheroes flying around with no explanation? 

 

Also Zeniths are a caricature with quotes "squash that bug" or how fun it will be to kill people. These characters are so super shallow...

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6 hours ago, ArtMontef said:

Has anything in the game ever explained how Zeniths are flying in the air? Or are we just supposed to believe they are DragonBall/Marvel superheroes flying around with no explanation? 

 

Also Zeniths are a caricature with quotes "squash that bug" or how fun it will be to kill people. These characters are so super shallow...

Tilda, Gerard, Eric, etc. all so forgettable and unimportant. That's why I believe they should fire that writers

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Posted (edited)

On 9.3.2022 at 0:29 AM, SirDarkStalker said:

NPCs and dialogues are the worst part of the game. I'm a 30 years old gamer, never skipped this many dialogues before. Characters literally answer a yes or no questions with 40 sentences of nonsense crap. 

 

P.S.: in my experience, you should never play two open worlds right consecutively. I think part of my opinion against horizon comes from the fact that I played horizon ZD right after witcher 3. Honestly, u should play no rpgs after Witcher 3. That game was damn near perfect. 

Haven't played FW, but i had the same issue on ZD.

I usually don't skip anything on AA-AAA games, but sometimes the dialogues just were too long and boring, but maybe it just felt like that, because i wasn't very interested of the story anyway, especially before half or 2/3 part of the game.

Overall a great game, but story, some of the characters and dialogues could've been better. 

 

Not sure am i going to buy FW, because i've heard the dialogues are long and story is very slow paced, so idk if i have patience and interest for another very similar story...

The Witcher 3 is still my favourite RPG.

Edited by TuomasH92
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Posted (edited)

Just 100% the game, did everything beyond the trophies, all on Very Hard with an end playtime of 76 & 1/2hrs. I'll admit getting back into it took a good amount of time, the gap between 1 and 2 was wide and mentally I had quite a bit to remember. So it took me around 6-7hrs to get passed the dry spell. Overall I loved it, I have nothing major to complain about like the OP here. I always assumed the game would be a trilogy and I think the storytelling is very well done. I'm someone who loves and appreciates heavy dialog and lore, so the excessive talking in a story telling game... seems like a stupid complaint honestly. I also really loved how Aloy wasn't alone here, she built a family and shared her burden. I enjoyed the presence of all the side characters, and I hope they grow on that even more in the 3rd game. The base concept is something I appreciate in ANY game. Erend best side man. 😎

 

This IP is gorgeous, original, and insanely well crafted. Sure it's not perfect, nothing ever is or ever will be. But for me, I haven't felt this refreshed about a sequel (and coming trilogy) since Mass Effect. Bravo Guerilla, bravo.

 

Edited by Skurkitty
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Posted (edited)

I've put over 30 hours into the game so far, and - while I have issues with the game as a whole, story included - I haven't really noticed anything too similar to ZD's plot.

The only thing that really stood out to me as noticeably similar to the first game's story is Regalla's rebellion, which even then felt appropriate given her past with the Carja.

 

Also...

Spoiler

Of course Nemesis is going to be similar to Hades as they're both rampant AIs, and Hades' whole malicious existence separated from Gaia was Nemesis' doing.

Hades in many ways could be considered as an extension and foreshadowing of Nemesis at this point, especially since we've always been aware he had a "master".

I'd imagine - given the context behind Nemesis' creation and "corruption" - that it'll be more emotionally driven by hatred rather than purely by orders like Hades was.

Since it's the master and not the servant, I'd imagine its behavior would only be similar to Hades to an extent. (Largely due to following no orders other than its own)

 

Obviously we'll have to wait to see how things play out before we can say anything for certain, but to me this comparison seems premature and otherwise pointless.

The threat from ZD never ended and that was made perfectly clear because Hades was always a pawn, so of course the "world is ending" bit is going to continue as well.

 

Disliking the story in of itself is one thing and is perfectly acceptable, mind you, as I have issues with it myself. (i.e I'm conflicted about Faro and what I wanted out of that scene)

But to me a lot of these complaints sound like hyperbole from someone who didn't pay close enough attention to either games' story, or didn't care to do so to begin with.

 

Additionally, how would "evil" Sobeck be any less generic and cheesy than some of the things you're complaining about?

That sounds like something I'd read in a bad fan-fiction, and yet you're still arguing that Guerrilla should fire their writers after suggesting that of all things?

 

This is a series whose entire storyline and universe is founded upon the idea of rampant AIs created by humanity's arrogance bringing about extinction.

So with that in mind - and the numerous things set up by the first game - it sounds like you set yourself up for disappointment rather than it being entirely the game's own fault.

 

Edited by Zephrese
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