no honor among modern trophy hunters

[willows_blessing]

i feel so sad when i think about people who get a puzzle game and just look up the answers for the plat. an example of this is return of the obra dinn (amazing game you should play it if you havent) its an amazing game and all of it is figuring out who people are and how they died using context clues. its an amazing game but some trophy hunters i know self admit to just following a guide to get a "easy 1 hour plat" its just making me wonder if people even enjoying the games or if they just enjoy the trophies 

 

i cant imagine throwing away one of the greatest gaming experiences just for 12 trophies

 

tldr: this was a incoherent rant about how people cheating in beautiful games makes me sad 

[DaivRules]

You could just… stop thinking about how others spend their time and money playing games and just enjoy your own experiences. 
 

 

[willows_blessing]

4 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

You could just… stop thinking about how others spend their time and money playing games and just enjoy your own experiences. 
 

 

of course its not like it ruined my day but its just a sad thought that people would not even try to enjoy anything that takes a mild amount of effort and instead look up a guide obviously "just ignore it lol" is a thing but eh the point isint "this ruined my life" its more of a  "people have reached a new low"

[BlimboPlats]

Just a matter of Opinion of how people enjoy games man.

 

Someone who spent the time exploring every nook and cranny might have the same level of enjoyment as someone who likes looking at guides, being prepared and such. Also a matter of if someone has the time and effort to spend hours on a game and such. 

Like for instance, I just finished Elden ring and I explored every area i could in that game and spent 120 hours getting the platinum and loved every minute. 

 

But a Game like the Witness, i would 100% use a guide for as i struggle a lot with puzzles in 3D and mechanics like that, even though the game has a beautiful atmosphere to it and whats you to take the time and learn and grow.

 

Another instance is with the game ''Lake''. A lovely indie game that makes you play as someone covering a roll of their father as a post man in a country town in early 90/s late 80's. Beautiful atmosphere and you meant to take the time and enjoy the story and try and relax. While I'm loving this game and doing all of the above, i'm also looking at guides and making sure i'm doing the right things to get trophies.

 

You just have to take into account each peoples Likes and dislikes of genres. Like the person who played the game still gave money to the devs and they may have even enjoyed their experience with the game!

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by SamuraiZwei

[Helyx]

1 hour ago, pjcooper2012 said:

a incoherent rant about how people cheating makes me sad

 

Guides are cheating. Better contact @Dreggit and shut down the entire guide system.

[AihaLoveleaf]

1 hour ago, pjcooper2012 said:

i feel so sad when i think about people who get a puzzle game and just look up the answers for the plat.

There's always Catherine, where you can spend countless hours watching solutions and still aren't guaranteed the Platinum afterwards.

[willows_blessing]

10 minutes ago, Helyx said:

 

Guides are cheating. Better contact @Dreggit and shut down the entire guide system.

obviously that not what i mean its not cheating in the actually against the sites rules way even tho i dont really like it people definitely shouldent get a punishment for using a guide for puzzles / anything as another commenter said some people find enjoyment in doing that and i never really considered that before 

[Sergen]

Can't please everyone, I bet there's someone out there who explored every inch of Uncharted chapters to find the treasures on their own without a guide who might be pissed that trophy hunters just used a guide to find them in their first playthrough. I call this term "selective elitism" where people who did one genre the "right way" will shit on others for not doing it the way they want people to do it, but then in other genres they're perfectly fine with using guides and exploits to get the trophy out of the way as soon as possible.  

[DrBloodmoney]

OP’s going to take some flack on this one (some already!) and I pretty much agree that no one should be in the business of telling other people how to enjoy their games…

 

…however, I do kinda get what they mean.

 

As a puzzle game enthusiast myself, I do get a little sad when I see someone say they just followed a guide for a game like Obra Dinn, or The Witness, or Portal 2 - games that brought me so much joy.

Not because I care about trophy rarity or any silliness like that (I think on puzzle games and adventure games, the rarity-horse has well and truly bolted at this point ?!) …

…but simply because those are some of the best examples in that genre, and so by not really experiencing them, those folks are unlikely to really be impacted by them on that same level, or ever be drawn in to becoming a fellow Puzzle-Game-Wierdo! ?

 

@Sergen does make a good counter point:

 

9 hours ago, Sergen said:

Can't please everyone, I bet there's someone out there who explored every inch of Uncharted chapters to find the treasures on their own without a guide who might be pissed that trophy hunters just used a guide to find them in their first playthrough. I call this term "selective elitism" where people who did one genre the "right way" will shit on others for not doing it the way they want people to do it, but then in other genres they're perfectly fine with using guides and exploits to get the trophy out of the way as soon as possible.  

 

…however, I do think there’s a difference between the example you cite with Uncharted treasures, and something like Obra Dinn or The Witness.

 

Uncharted is primarily a narrative and action game - the treasure hunting is just a side activity. I think someone using a guide for the collectibles may be “softening” the exploratory aspects, but is still experiencing the primary functionality and core gameplay of the product. 
 

With a puzzle game though, generally the stuff following a guide would negate is the game - its primary function and core gameplay is in finding those solutions. There isn’t often any really functional gameplay outside of that - a little narrative maybe, but even that is often fairly limited as compared to other genres.

 

 

To put it another way - if someone played Uncharted, and had used a guide for the treasures, I think they are still well placed to review the game critically, or speak about the merits of the game with authority, as they still experienced the core gameplay as intended - there or there abouts anyways.

 

If someone played The Witness by just looking up all the puzzle solutions, however, I don’t think they can really do the same.

 

They wouldn’t have really experienced the core gameplay of the game - which is entirely in the solving of those puzzles, and the cerebral journey to discovering those solutions, if you know what I mean.

Food for thought… but I think saying guide use shows a lack of “honour” is a bit over the top!

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by DrBloodmoney

[Sergen]

29 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

OP’s going to take some flack on this one (some already!) and I pretty much agree that no one should be in the business of telling other people how to enjoy their games…

 

…however, I do kinda get what they mean.

 

As a puzzle game enthusiast myself, I do get a little sad when I see someone say they just followed a guide for a game like Obra Dinn, or The Witness, or Portal 2 - games that brought me so much joy.

Not because I care about trophy rarity or any silliness like that (I think on puzzle games and adventure games, the rarity-horse has well and truly bolted at this point !) …

…but simply because those are some of the best examples in that genre, and so by not really experiencing them, those folks are unlikely to really be impacted by them on that same level, or ever be drawn in to becoming a fellow Puzzle-Game-Wierdo! 

 

@Sergen does make a good counter point:

 

 

…however, I do think there’s a difference between the example you cite with Uncharted treasures, and something like Obra Dinn or The Witness.

 

Uncharted is primarily a narrative and action game - the treasure hunting is just a side activity. I think someone using a guide for the collectibles may be “softening” the exploratory aspects, but is still experiencing the primary functionality and core gameplay of the product. 
 

With a puzzle game though, generally the stuff following a guide would negate is the game - its primary function and core gameplay is in finding those solutions. There isn’t often any really functional gameplay outside of that - a little narrative maybe, but even that is often fairly limited as compared to other genres.

 

 

To put it another way - if someone played Uncharted, and had used a guide for the treasures, I think they are still well placed to review the game critically, or speak about the merits of the game with authority, as they still experienced the core gameplay as intended - there or there abouts anyways.

 

If someone played The Witness by just looking up all the puzzle solutions, however, I don’t think they can really do the same.

 

They wouldn’t have really experienced the core gameplay of the game - which is entirely in the solving of those puzzles, and the cerebral journey to discovering those solutions, if you know what I mean.

Food for thought… but I think saying guide use shows a lack of “honour” is a bit over the top!

 

 

Haha, Uncharted was just the example I made up after looking at the OP's list. From my own experience the selective elitism comes in when I've done fighting game trophies and seen people who like fighting games act above people who boosted the online trophies for them, but when they play a shooter it's perfectly fine for them to boost all the online trophies for them. Regardless maybe the OP is right about "no honor among trophy hunters" because every trophy hunter has done something that another trophy hunter wouldn't be happy with. 

[AJ_Radio]

People have looked up answers for puzzle games since forever. I myself had to look up solutions for some point and click games that had rather convoluted puzzles. 
 

This rant is pointless. This conversation was lost the moment you said people are looking up a guide to help them get thru the game. 
 

They are trophy hunters. Of course they’re going to look up guides. 
 

Work on your punctuation and spelling. Really helps in the long run, especially if you are going to try to make a rant discussion.

[pinkrobot_pb]

I'm with @Sergen on this one. I enjoy the POWGI and Pic-a-Pix games as a relaxed way to end the day on my Vita and would only use a guide when I get stuck. Same goes for many other puzzle games. But then I have little problem with using a walkthrough for many point and click games, because they are still an enjoyable experience for me that way (art and story). So if others get the same enjoyment out of using guides to beat other puzzle games as fast as possible, who am I to judge?

Edited April 24, 2022 by pinkrobot_pb

[exsentry]

On 4/22/2022 at 9:20 PM, pjcooper2012 said:

i feel so sad when i think about people who get a puzzle game and just look up the answers for the plat. an example of this is return of the obra dinn (amazing game you should play it if you havent) its an amazing game and all of it is figuring out who people are and how they died using context clues. its an amazing game but some trophy hunters i know self admit to just following a guide to get a "easy 1 hour plat" its just making me wonder if people even enjoying the games or if they just enjoy the trophies 

 

i cant imagine throwing away one of the greatest gaming experiences just for 12 trophies

 

tldr: this was a incoherent rant about how people cheating in beautiful games makes me sad 

 

I guess one man's trash is another man's treasure, or maybe it's vice versa here. I found this game to be underwhelming, cumbersome and did not like the story...at all. So, I had no trouble skimming through it for the plat. If I wanted to play a Soduku puzzle, I would have bought a book of them at the grocery store.

 

If that's your only example on "no honor among trophy hunters", you are going to find yourself quite disappointed in these forums.

[Baranov_925]

These days, people are losing their honor in many, more shameful ways. And we are really evaluate someone honor because he's playing that kind of games and not the other?

[Ric]

I agree with you for the most part, but I have accepted the fact that trophy hunting was corrupted the moment it got too popular. Getting a huge amount of platinums got more important than having impressive platinums or enjoying games. It's why I changed the way I trophy hunt. I've been working on completing some games to up my completion rating as a challenge to myself. 100%ed some games by getting DLC's on sale and going back and finishing them. I stopped looking at the leader boards.

 

Just let it go. I've enjoyed Return of the Obra Dinn by figuring everything out for myself and I loved it. That's all that matters to me. As doing the same yourself should be the only thing that matters to you. If you want to discuss the game specifically, I'm sure there are better platforms than this one (even though I'm sure you can have a good discussion here too, just don't make it about skipping the whole game just for the trophies ☺️). 

 

Just think of it this way. They've spent all of their money and only got a couple of png images to show for it, and maybe it kept them busy for an hour. You've spent your money on the same png images, but you've got lasting memories of them, more hours of entertainment and sometimes even experiences like Obra Dinn.

 

In short, just game/trophy hunt for yourself, to make a gaming journal you can be proud of and look back to and remember all the good stuff, and leave everyone else's for what they are. You have no influence on them.

[Jelly Soup]

We can, have and will continue to pontificate and wax poetic on this subject until the PSN joins the Metaverse before a sudden digital universe heat death wipes the slate clean.

The main points are:

-Trophy/achievement hunters are going to hunt trophies/achievements.

-Quick cash-ins are the way to go with you want to play the leaderboard game in any meaningful way. Same with any achievement ecosystem, the small things pile up faster than the big things, regardless of the low score.

-Time is limited. Most people have general life things to deal with, so spending 5 hours on one puzzle with no help means they might just skip or not buy the game. Which has other ripple effects.

-Let people play crap the way they want to play.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Jelly Soup

[VigilantCrow]

If people aren't smart enough to handle puzzles and need guides, there's nothing dishonorable about that. I might chuckle a bit but I'm sure people would do the same if they watched me try a fighting game, with my terrible hand eye coordination. 

[JourneySilvers]

I think it might also be worth pointing out that a lot of the people who breezed through a game like Obra Dinn for the trophies probably aren't all that interested in the game or genre anyway. If I had opened Obra Dinn with the idea of just grabbing trophies- then got hit by that solemn atmosphere and beautiful music- I would have dropped the idea that it was "just for trophies" immediately. But thats because I love the sort of thing Obra Dinn goes for. Its natural to get absorbed into something if you have fun with it. 

 

Not everyone will like it or care about it though, and thats alright. They can try it out and speed run it for trophies if they want. If they aren't interested in the game, then they wouldve never bought or played it without the trophies anyway. (Thats a generalization ofc, but I feel like its true more often then not). So at least the developer gets the money and that player gets the trophies. Win/win honestly. 

[XIII-Order-Xion]

With puzzles I toss myself recklessly at them,  until they  stop being fun and become annoying.  Then I pop up a guide, this usually happens on like the very end last four puzzles or so.

[DaveMcDamage]

'Modern trophy hunters'????

 

The achievement and trophy system only came on the scene around 2006. We're all modern trophy hunters ya daft sod. 

 

One thing that is out of control is how so many bastards seem to think labelling a few mindsets gives them the right to judge an entire generation/timeline. 

[RadiantFlamberge]

To each their own. If someone else uses a guide to waltz through a game that I played blind on, it's not my problem.

 

Take Shadow and Rise of the Tomb Raider. I can see why some would look up the puzzle solutions there, while using a guide only for that purpose and not the exploration or combat.

[Arzoden]

10 / 10 Topic?

 

 

[Dauersack]

Really bad example op chose here. Puzzles are limited in their possibilies, there can only ever be a certain number of possible solutions to any given problem within a game puzzle, at least for all puzzles I have ever seen myself, so all looking up a guide really does here is save the one looking at it some time. Assuming someone just blindly trial and errors through a puzzle, he is guaranteed to stumble upon the solution sooner or later, so even a long puzzle that one considers to be too complicated to understand can always get solved if they just keep mindlessly trying and memorizing it, there is not much of a real learning curve involved. The moment they no longer enjoy thinking about it or blindly trying it, looking up a guide is perfectly fine, as the fun of it is the only reason to play puzzle games, it certainly is not for the big challenge in skill when it comes to use the controller.

 

Compare that to a platformer, a boss rush game, a theoretical puzzle game with many randomly generated and always switching timed puzzles (if that even exists) or any game that still expects you to have certain reflexes for a prolonged period of time(assuming there is no super cheap cheese strat available in a guide), and you can see the difference. I would only consider it an honorless move to let others do something for you that you are indeed incapable of doing, as you really do not deserve the trophy in the classical sense.  I still get why people do it when they realize that it is likely beyond their possible capabilities after they already put in so much time. Not everyone is able to just come to terms with an incomplete game, I have two really tough games that I gave up on due to their difficulty, haven't touched them in almost 2 years, not sure if I ever will try them again, but the fact that it is still annoying me every time I look at them at least leaves the possibility open.