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Was this game over-hyped?


PotrikBerger

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I only ask to see what others think. 

I came to this game late, but had heard and read constantly that it was amazing, unique and game of the year contender and winner on other platforms.

 

now I’m not saying it is a bad game or that I haven’t had fun playing it, but cmon, this isn’t game of the year contender. It’s just four areas to play and a hub. That’s it. Yes, it is extremely clever and well put together because you never feel totally bored by that fact.  Yet it is a fact. Once you seen these five areas that’s all the game has to offer in that regards.

 

As I said, great game, have enjoyed it so far, but just feeling it isn’t even close to all these 90+ scores I had been reading about for the last year. Again, I’m not saying this is a bad game or trying to put it down. I’m just so confused how this has got such comparatively high scores with full, in depth, superbly written,  rich and fully developed worlds in other games out there.

 

it maybe just me, but I’m feeling that more and more, using the same scoring system for indie games and triple aaa games is becoming outdated. Even just using the scoring out of ten is becoming to inflexible I fear.

 

i believe we all play games and tend to think about them in around about the same way, and I think we should break scoring down into three key areas.

 

Anticipation (what do you think and feel before the game is released)

Enjoyment (what do you think and feel about it whilst playing it)

Retrospect (what do you think about the game now that you have finished it and not played it for a few days)

 

 Mark each of these three areas out of five (or 10 still if you can’t give up the 10 system) and write a sentence for each heading and bobs your uncle, we have a scoring system that is much more flexible and much easier for people to compare with not only their own ratings, but also other games with reviews by other outlets. 

 

Giving hades a 9/10 or a 10/10 is fine, but comparing these indies to a triple aaa game which also got 9/10 or 10/10 is like comparing apples and oranges. Yes they both fruit, but they not the same. And I genuinely think it turns some people off from trying some indie games.

 

id like to see what people, who have finished the hades game on PlayStation, thought about this game using this scoring system to explain.

anticipation, enjoyment and retrospect.

 

will anyone endulge me?

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Replacing one bad data design with another bad data design isn’t going to change the fact it’s all bad data. 
 

Putting a number on a subjective, emotion based experience (game scores) doesn’t make it scientific and doesn’t make applying it to two different experiences some kind of magically logical system.

 

If I read a great biography, giving it a number is completely arbitrary. Reading another science fiction book and also giving it an arbitrary number doesn’t somehow now create a system where comparing those two numbers make sense. “But they both have numbers now! Now it’s data with common denominators!” No, it’s now what is called “junk science” for people who understand what data science actually is. And collecting lots of peoples’ arbitrary numbers doesn’t somehow make it scientific data either. 

 

It’s easier to stop trying to create some system that has to boil down to a number (no, 5 points isn’t any different to 10 or 100 points) so people can ignore the nuance being said/written about a game and revert to their 3 year old mentality of “bigger number is more better than smaller number so bigger number game has to be better than smaller number game” which also tends to tag along with “only one game can be 9 cause there is already 9 and I don’t like their 9 so I’ll make this one 9 and make their 9 and 8”.

 

What follows closely to the numbers system that is so deeply flawed is the validation-seeking that is Game-of-the-Year. Another arbitrary non-data-driven battle royale where there can be only one! But people treat like some universally accepted standard with rigid requirements and everyone must recognize as a divine decree. Meh. Different people like different things.

 

Can any game be “overhyped”? Well yeah. People hype themselves. They’re responsible for any hype they feel. If they read a bunch of posts from people who really enjoy and like a game, but skip the parts where people talk about what they like and only look for terms like Game or the Year, or a score, they’re missing the point that the review reflects only how the reviewer feels about that game for themself.

 

Implying too many people got excited for a game and by seeking out all those posts and reading them and building anticipation (hype) that doesn’t match what they finally experience in a game is somehow the fault of the people who genuinely enjoyed and shared their experience is a very flawed perspective. Placing some imaginary blame on what is clearly not other fault. “But there were lots of ads too!” Yes. Advertisements. Marketing. Paid promotions that were placed in the same location that people visited over and over again. I thought children quickly learned ads are to be taken skeptically, but I suppose the same people who biblically believe in review scores are also somehow the same people easily influenced by ads. 
 

It’s okay if your experience does or doesn’t align with others experience of Hades. It doesn’t mean anyone was wrong, it just means different people like different things. 
 

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I never said anyone was wrong. And I never said I didn’t enjoy it. I guess my point was I was expecting a lot more from everything I had read about it since it’s pc days. You seem to have taken this very personally somehow so apologies for that.

 

the anticipation/enjoyment/retrospect (credit little white lies magazine) aspect of rating media is exactly trying to tap into something a little bit more personable than just numbers. Not that I disagree entirely with your points on arbitrary number systems, but like it or not, that’s the system the world uses and won’t be changing. Adding a degree of breakdown to that does actually help dig under an arbitrary number I feel.  But hey, I’m not trying to convince anyone that doesn’t want to hear it, I was just interested in seeing how people responded to a scoring system that wasn’t ‘just’ a number alone. But whatever way you cut it, games, films, albums, restaurants....just about everything art, literature and media will continue to be rated in a number system by critics. It’s just the way it is.

Ok, dr blood. I’m not getting into a debate on big industry games and indie games. All I’d say as a qualified student of literature and the arts is that you are way, way way off in stating there are only very few specific examples of big games with great writing. Hades is ok at best with the writing, it certainly isn’t no classic from a literary stand point.

 

it seems you have a dislike to the ‘machine’ of the industry and big developers making games by committee and deadlines and that’s cool. Like I say, I’m not interested in debating that. It’s the same argument as the Hollywood machine and indie film titles. There is no right and wrong and it’s a rabbit hole I don’t wanna go down.

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18 minutes ago, PotrikBerger said:

Ok, dr blood. I’m not getting into a debate on big industry games and indie games. All I’d say as a qualified student of literature and the arts is that you are way, way way off in stating there are only very few specific examples of big games with great writing. Hades is ok at best with the writing, it certainly isn’t no classic from a literary stand point.

 

it seems you have a dislike to the ‘machine’ of the industry and big developers making games by committee and deadlines and that’s cool. Like I say, I’m not interested in debating that. It’s the same argument as the Hollywood machine and indie film titles. There is no right and wrong and it’s a rabbit hole I don’t wanna go down.

 

Um... okay.

 

Well, I don't have any dislike for any part of the games industry - even a cursory look at my profile would show that I love games of all stripes - from "Triple A" to one-man-indies and everything in between. I'm just stating what I feel to be true of Supergiant and their ilk vs. bigger games with more stringent design parameters.

 

I review (and rank) loads of the games I play, and always strive to be fair, and look at the good elements - I'm not some curmudgeon who dislikes any kind of game "on spec". 

 

https://forum.psnprofiles.com/topic/107145-drbloodmoneys-super-scientific-ranking-of-games/

 

(My Hades review is in there, if you fancy, along with it's placement on my rankings)

 

 

 

 

You know, you did say:

 

3 hours ago, PotrikBerger said:

I only ask to see what others think. 

 

and 

 

3 hours ago, PotrikBerger said:

will anyone endulge me?

 

...that's what I was doing... and now you seem annoyed that anyone dared to do exactly that :blink::dunno:

 

 

Edited by DrBloodmoney
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It seems to me that you're focusing too much on the scores set out in the reviews, and not enough on why the reviewer(s) gave that score to begin with, you know... the actual review. At the end of the day, scores are absolutely pointless, which is why a lot of reviewers don't even give one. They don't explain anything about what makes a game good or bad. I wish people would stop focusing solely on scores, which again are completely meaningless, and instead read or watch the review(s) in full. See why the reviewer was so full of praise, or why they hated a game, and see if any of it resonates with you. But even so, only you can make the final judgement, so you'll never truly know until you try something for yourself.

 

Review scores have become weaponised in recent years too. It's become really bad. People use the likes of Metacritic scores to pit games against one another, and to throw shit at anything they don't like. It's just really sad. There are actually people out there who think that any game which doesn't get a 90+ is trash. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, PotrikBerger said:

but cmon, this isn’t game of the year contender. It’s just four areas to play and a hub. That’s it.

Four areas and a hub that contain dozens of hours of fun gameplay. Compare it to the likes of TLoU2 that has, like, 5 hours of great combat, 10 hours of a very controversial story and 10 hours of "exploring".  Dunno, it looks like a GOTY-contender to me. In fact, for me personally, Hades only barely loses to 13 Sentinels in 2020, because I was blown away by that game's story.

The game either grabs your attention and you have fun with or it doesn't. Everything else is inconsequential in the end. 4 areas or 24 areas, what does it matter if you have genuine fun.

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Wouldn't say it's overrated, I enjoyed every minute going for the platinum. However beyond the Plat it severely lacks any replay value that you would get from say... Binding of Isaac as an example. That being said I would very much welcome some DLC to bring me back to Hades.

 

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I felt the same as you INITIALLY, but it really won me over the more I played it. It's incredibly addictive and fun, the characters are well-written and the whole concept feels so unique. Some of the prophecies are RNG bullshit, that were way more grindy than they had to be, but I still love the game. In a year where Ghost of Tsushima, The Last of Us Part II and Astro's Playroom also came out however, I'm not so sure it's Game of the Year, but it's easily a 9/10 in my opinion.

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DaivRules and The alchemist nailed it. This is mostly about review scores and the fact that 9/10 for one game is not the same as 9/10 for another game, to put it simply.

 

For example, I'd probably rate the original Pac-Man 10/10, and it's a one screen game. Does it offer more than a modern AAA game? That's a difficult question to answer, depends on how you look at it. Like you said, it's apples and oranges. That's why the review is more important than the score. So I don't know about the Anticipation-Enjoyment-Retrospect system. It looks like you'll just end up with 3 scores to compare instead of one. 

 

 

Edited by Slava
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Pre-note: I have not played Hades yet.

 

It seems that you only had comments on the settings but lacked any form of praise or criticism about other aspects of the game. What about the game play, characters, story, music, etc? Great games (and anything really) can thrive on small worlds and/or limited settings. Hades is based on the underworld of Greek mythology and it's already established how expansive that can be. There's also nothing wrong with the x/10 rating. It's merely for the average person they have a negative connotation for anything less than an 7 or 8/10 when that's an inaccurate assumption.

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I'll throw my subjective opinion into the ring and I'll keep it short:

 

No, not over hyped. If anything, the game was even better than I was expecting.

 

As an aside, the soundtrack is still a mainstay for me in the car. It's been consistently in my rotation for over a year. "The Painful Way" is my favorite.

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I guess I read so many critical reviews about how original and amazing the game was and when I played it it kind of felt like, is this it? I came in expecting an absolute masterpiece of a game and that was probably the main driver for how I reacted to it.

 

its not bad at all, I got the plat, I enjoyed the first 40 - 50 runs. But it does smack of the emperors new clothes to me the way some people are talking about it’s writing, music etc. as though it’s the gaming pinnacle of these areas. Again, that’s not me saying either is bad or wrong or that I didn’t enjoy them. I did. I just don’t think any of it is gaming greatness or amazingly original. It’s good. It’s fun. But it’s not the best thing since sliced bread, and in fact, recent games have done the ‘loop’ gameplay mechanic with far more originality than hades, in my opinion.

 Obviously people feel very passionate about the game and I can respect that. I like the fact it has such loyal fans. But for me it didn’t make the loop half as interesting as other games with a similar gameplay mechanic and replaying same areas like deathloop or returnal, and yes, it’s true I was bored shitless by the time I’d reached my 80th successful escape attempt just to try and get the dude in Elysium to talk to ares to give me my last trophy, but I still enjoyed the game.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have really enjoyed it and found it refreshingly different. Possibly because I haven't played other games of this type. (I still need to finish transistor)

 

I did however take a break from it for a bit and I am still working on the platinum, but the mechanics and levelling design for the player is really quite good. I only really considered this point though when I downloaded the switch version to play on the go and realised how limited/hard it was during those first runs to get you out of the underworld. (I rarely buy a game twice, so maybe that speaks to my thoughts on it)

 

I think if I had played it through in one go I would have been well and truly fed up of it by now. But because I had a break from it, playing Elden ring and F1 2018, it just made returning to it better.

 

I have even bought Bastion, to give that a go (£2.99 seems like a bargain for this)

 

 

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On 08/05/2022 at 3:49 AM, PotrikBerger said:

It’s just four areas to play and a hub. That’s it. Yes, it is extremely clever and well put together because you never feel totally bored by that fact.

I think you answered your own question. If a game makes you feel that way, why can't it be considered GOTY?

 

Good games don't bore you, even if they have that part you don't like (it's not a rule). And if a game with only 4 areas and a hub doesn't bother you, why can't it make the list of games of the year? Saying that that's why a game doesn't deserve to be on the list of the best of the year, for me, is the same as saying that a short game, between 1 and 5 hours, could never get a high rating. And that's not true right?

 

I'm not judging you by your question, I'm just showing you another side that might not have crossed your mind. I say this because I see a lot of anger when someone questions something that other people liked just trying to understand it.

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I look at it from 2 different angles personally. As just a game I would say Hades is not overrated at all. Fun combat, great enemy and boss design, amazing art design, stellar soundtrack, and an alright story. It's a fantastic package and if I was comparing it to the releases of 2020 I'd say it was one of my favorite games that year (I say if because I waited until the 2021 PS release to buy it.)

 

As a roguelite though I would say it's somewhat disappointing. There are very few bosses (even including variants), and once you get the most important darkness upgrades you're better off just using the weapon you're most comfortable with as opposed to the one that has the 20% bonus, which further limits gameplay variety. Also the heat system is poorly implemented. You can't stack the rewards so you just have to slog your way through lower difficulties until you finally get to a heat level that is actually challenging. Worst of all though, the system is designed to take away your upgrades which just makes the game less fun to actually play the more you crank up the heat.

 

It took me about 50 hours to get the plat trophy and I absolutely loved every second of that. But because of how the game is designed I never felt compelled to keep playing past that which is not good for a roguelite. I've been pretty obsessed with roguelikes/lites since the original Binding of Isaac release (as in the 2011 flash game) and I just have certain expectations for them, which Hades did not deliver on. Risk of Rain 2 came out of early access around the same time as Hades and I've had way more fun with that, bought it on multiple platforms and still go back to it all the time. Monster Train also came out in 2020 and I'd actually say it's one of my favorite roguelikes of all time, wish it would come out on Playstation so I could go for the plat trophy lol. But regardless, that disappointment doesn't mean Hades is bad or anything. Great game, just not an amazing roguelite.

Edited by ZenaxPure
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On 23/05/2022 at 2:31 PM, giinha said:

I think you answered your own question. If a game makes you feel that way, why can't it be considered GOTY?

 

Good games don't bore you, even if they have that part you don't like (it's not a rule). And if a game with only 4 areas and a hub doesn't bother you, why can't it make the list of games of the year? Saying that that's why a game doesn't deserve to be on the list of the best of the year, for me, is the same as saying that a short game, between 1 and 5 hours, could never get a high rating. And that's not true right?

 

I'm not judging you by your question, I'm just showing you another side that might not have crossed your mind. I say this because I see a lot of anger when someone questions something that other people liked just trying to understand it.

 

Like I said in my posts, it’s never been about me thinking it was a bad game or that I was bored beyond belief.

 

its about me coming into playing this game having read everything about it, and having the impression this was going to be something above and beyond, something to remember, something to stand out. When I finally played it, well it was just alright. Middle of the road. Nothing unique. And that is what I questioned. Just feels to me fans and critics alike seem to go overboard for this game. There’s nothing groundbreaking, there’s nothing new and there isn’t really that much originality. And like @ZenaxPure has mentioned, it certainly has flaws (just like most games) (and I totally agree about the heat system, very irritating)

 

ive played hundreds of games. And about 90% of them I’m not bored. So not being bored isn’t unusual or of any great credit to a a game I don’t think anyway. That’s the minimum. 

 

This wasnt set set up as me having a go or disliking hades. I just felt as I was playing it that, wow, why does this have such wild acclaim. It’s just a good game I felt. Like many other out there. Not really seeing why it should be separated as anything extra extra special. I asked about over hyped because I wondered if anyone felt the same. But over hyped doesn’t mean bad. I just feel like there is a lot of hyperbole around this particular game when I came to play it. But maybe that’s just my personal experience leading into playing it.

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  • 1 month later...
On 5/8/2022 at 0:49 AM, PotrikBerger said:

I only ask to see what others think. 

I came to this game late, but had heard and read constantly that it was amazing, unique and game of the year contender and winner on other platforms.

 

now I’m not saying it is a bad game or that I haven’t had fun playing it, but cmon, this isn’t game of the year contender. It’s just four areas to play and a hub. That’s it. Yes, it is extremely clever and well put together because you never feel totally bored by that fact.  Yet it is a fact. Once you seen these five areas that’s all the game has to offer in that regards.

 

As I said, great game, have enjoyed it so far, but just feeling it isn’t even close to all these 90+ scores I had been reading about for the last year. Again, I’m not saying this is a bad game or trying to put it down. I’m just so confused how this has got such comparatively high scores with full, in depth, superbly written,  rich and fully developed worlds in other games out there.

 

it maybe just me, but I’m feeling that more and more, using the same scoring system for indie games and triple aaa games is becoming outdated. Even just using the scoring out of ten is becoming to inflexible I fear.

 

i believe we all play games and tend to think about them in around about the same way, and I think we should break scoring down into three key areas.

 

Anticipation (what do you think and feel before the game is released)

Enjoyment (what do you think and feel about it whilst playing it)

Retrospect (what do you think about the game now that you have finished it and not played it for a few days)

 

 Mark each of these three areas out of five (or 10 still if you can’t give up the 10 system) and write a sentence for each heading and bobs your uncle, we have a scoring system that is much more flexible and much easier for people to compare with not only their own ratings, but also other games with reviews by other outlets. 

 

Giving hades a 9/10 or a 10/10 is fine, but comparing these indies to a triple aaa game which also got 9/10 or 10/10 is like comparing apples and oranges. Yes they both fruit, but they not the same. And I genuinely think it turns some people off from trying some indie games.

 

id like to see what people, who have finished the hades game on PlayStation, thought about this game using this scoring system to explain.

anticipation, enjoyment and retrospect.

 

will anyone endulge me?

 

I think this is a perfect rogue-lite, don't think this was overrated at all. One of my favorite games of all time. Everyone has different wants and needs though, so I can understand feeling underwhelmed maybe. I agree with your thoughts on scoring though - I review games on my YouTube channel but never assign scores because reviews are so subjective based on the interests of the reviewer, you can never objectively say a game is a 9/10 or a 6/10. My 9 may be someone elses 5, and vice verca. To answer your questions:

 

Anticipation: I was very hyped. I'm a big Supergiant fan

Enjoyment: Loved it. In particular, the loop of playing, then coming back to the crib to learn about people and upgrade.

Retrospect: As mentioned, one of my favorite games of all-time. It's rare a game lives up to the hype for me, but Hades accomplished that for me, so much so that I complete it at 100% on the PC first and then started working on the plat for PS5. It's rare a game will make me want to play through again.

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On 11/07/2022 at 6:03 PM, DansomeYT said:

 

I think this is a perfect rogue-lite, don't think this was overrated at all. One of my favorite games of all time. Everyone has different wants and needs though, so I can understand feeling underwhelmed maybe. I agree with your thoughts on scoring though - I review games on my YouTube channel but never assign scores because reviews are so subjective based on the interests of the reviewer, you can never objectively say a game is a 9/10 or a 6/10. My 9 may be someone elses 5, and vice verca. To answer your questions:

 

Anticipation: I was very hyped. I'm a big Supergiant fan

Enjoyment: Loved it. In particular, the loop of playing, then coming back to the crib to learn about people and upgrade.

Retrospect: As mentioned, one of my favorite games of all-time. It's rare a game lives up to the hype for me, but Hades accomplished that for me, so much so that I complete it at 100% on the PC first and then started working on the plat for PS5. It's rare a game will make me want to play through again.

 

Love the little white lies rating system (anticipation, enjoyment, retrospect), I’ve used the same approach for a couple of other posts on other games myself and agree entirely on approaching how we appraise the arts in this way. I even started a post on it once upon a time....didn’t go well lol

 

respect everyone’s opinions and thankful for those taken time to put them here.

 

As a cover note in my ‘retrospect’ section of review, I’ve since played transistor since I started this post. And to be completely honest I’m even more stumped as to why Hades has SUCH critical acclaim. I’ve never doubted Hades is a good, strong, enjoyable game. I’ve doubted just how much it seems to be critically rated. And now I’ve played transistor, I personally feel it’s the superior game in almost every department. Hades feels like the equivalent of the Toyota mr2 with a Ferrari body kit. It’s got the transistor engine, it’s got the transistor mechanics and the transistor handling. It’s just got a hades body kit over the top. Again, not a bad thing at all. But it’s not the original piece of critical art that Reviwers would have had me believe is my humble opinion. For me transistor had more varied gameplay, better weapons, better limiter/pact mechanic and better script. It had original characters whereas hades has some over the most well known characters used in the medium.

 

To my mind, if it’s not even that original compared to one of its predecessors, then how can it be reviewed as one of the most critically acclaimed original games of recent times on PlayStation? I’m not saying I’m right, there are plenty here who feel I’m not and I respect that, It’s just how I personally see it.

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47 minutes ago, PotrikBerger said:

Love the little white lies rating system (anticipation, enjoyment, retrospect), I’ve used the same approach for a couple of other posts on other games myself and agree entirely on approaching how we appraise the arts in this way. I even started a post on it once upon a time....didn’t go well lol

 

respect everyone’s opinions and thankful for those taken time to put them here.

 

As a cover note in my ‘retrospect’ section of review, I’ve since played transistor since I started this post. And to be completely honest I’m even more stumped as to why Hades has SUCH critical acclaim. I’ve never doubted Hades is a good, strong, enjoyable game. I’ve doubted just how much it seems to be critically rated. And now I’ve played transistor, I personally feel it’s the superior game in almost every department. Hades feels like the equivalent of the Toyota mr2 with a Ferrari body kit. It’s got the transistor engine, it’s got the transistor mechanics and the transistor handling. It’s just got a hades body kit over the top. Again, not a bad thing at all. But it’s not the original piece of critical art that Reviwers would have had me believe is my humble opinion. For me transistor had more varied gameplay, better weapons, better limiter/pact mechanic and better script. It had original characters whereas hades has some over the most well known characters used in the medium.

 

To my mind, if it’s not even that original compared to one of its predecessors, then how can it be reviewed as one of the most critically acclaimed original games of recent times on PlayStation? I’m not saying I’m right, there are plenty here who feel I’m not and I respect that, It’s just how I personally see it.

 

You'll find no argument from me on the fact that Transistor is the superior game - I think it's Supergiant's best, and Hades is actually their worst...

...but "worst" is relative - I'd still say Supergiant's "worst" is better than most developers "best"! ?

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10 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

You'll find no argument from me on the fact that Transistor is the superior game - I think it's Supergiant's best, and Hades is actually their worst...

...but "worst" is relative - I'd still say Supergiant's "worst" is better than most developers "best"! 1f602.png

 

hades is their best imo, but there is no way you can say its their worst. in what world would pyre ever be rated higher than hades? lol

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