poetic_justice_

Team17's Lemmings Is Terrible

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Posted (edited)

For those who made the mistake of starting this game, you have my condolences. For those who have not started Lemmings, don't. Run. Run from this steaming blue-ish green pile of donkey crap. If you don't have Lemmings on your PSN ID, be grateful.

 

Lemmings is the worst PlayStation puzzle game I've played. I do not know of any other puzzle game where the player can literally do everything right, only for the game to throw RNG into the last step of the solution and destroy the entire process.

 

In 2008, Team17 offered a Lemmings demo that included the first four Trial levels. Based on the simple enjoyment of the demo, I purchased the game. After attempting the next group of levels (ironically titled 'Fun'), I stopped. The levels were not fun; they were overly strict regarding placement, had clunky controls, were missing key gameplay mechanics, and lacked any fun factor. In addition, because I didn't understand the "load profile before playing or no data is saved" mechanic, I lost my progress every time I shut off the game. After a few days of playing the same levels over and over, I lost interest.

 

In 2013, I thought, "Lemmings can't be as bad as I remember it from 2008. I've grown as a gamer in the last five years. " Lemmings was just as bad, though, and unfortunately, I unlocked one trophy. Lemmings became a permanent part of my PSN ID.

 

I haven't touched the game in the last eight and one-half years. It's a pile of shit, but it's a pile of shit I'd like to bury. Thanks to the YouTube community, I am three levels and two grinds away from doing that.

 

You literally have to be pixel perfect in placing Diggers, Blockers, and Bridges to solve certain levels, yet this game offers no assistance for that level of precision. You can not assign roles when the game is paused. You cannot restart a ten-minute level when things go bad, and things go bad a lot. One misplaced Lemming will ruin an entire run, and unless you find a way to slaughter your lemmings, you have to fast forward through the entire ten minutes to reset the level. There is no option for Restart Level in a game where you will literally restart levels five times more often than you finish them.

 

The worst thing, though, the absolute WORST thing is the lack of a profile auto-load feature. Every time you start the game, you must go to a separate screen and load your profile BEFORE you begin playing. If you do not load your profile, Lemmings will not save any of your progress, nor will it load your previous progress. Literally every other PlayStation game in existence has a profile auto-load feature, but not Lemmings. Last week I spent hours on Taxing puzzles only to come back the next day to discover I was locked out of every level I had completed. Ironically, my high scores were uploaded to the Lemming server, but I couldn't start any of the levels I'd unlocked because nothing had saved on my local system. The game does not explain any of this, and I only discovered it how to correct the issue fourteen years later through trial and error.

 

 Any players who have 100% on Lemmings deserve to have the name "Dante" added to their PSN ID. They have journeyed through seven levels of hell to get those 12 awful trophies. Team17 should not have released this game without reworking the gameplay mechanics or installing a profile auto-load feature. Lemmings is terrible. Avoid it.

 

Edited by poetic_justice_
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Team 17 i believe is the same team behind the Escapist series?  It floors me they never bothered to fix the patch they made that broke the woodbury map so it crashes when the game saves which means you can't sleep in game because it saves when you do and you can't die because it saves and you can't survive past a certain day or it saves.   Now the work around was to learn to speed run the level relying also on rng.  However it is a mid level of the game and the normal casual gamer isn't going to be able to pull that off.  Team 17 just says screw it and never bothers to fix it.  For some people they literally bought a game they can't pass the 3rd level because of a glitch in the game which came about as a result of the very last patch they ever put out for the game.  Even though i like some of their games it's hard to ever consider buying another one after that.  I believe they are also behind Hell let loose which was free,

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Posted (edited)

59 minutes ago, steel6burgh said:

Team 17 i believe is the same team behind the Escapist series?  Team 17 just says screw it and never bothers to fix it.  Even though i like some of their games it's hard to ever consider buying another one after that.  I believe they are also behind Hell let loose which was free.

steel6burgh, back in 2006(?) when Lemmings was released for PS3, Team17 was only a small indie developer. Team17 Software developed Lemmings, but Sony published it (For reasons I don't understand, PSNP lists the Lemmings' developer as DMA Design, but on the title screen of Lemmings it clearly displays "(C) 2009 Team17 Software Limited". Perhaps DMA Design was Team17's old company name). Fast forward to 2015, nine years later, and Team17 has become large enough to transition to be a publisher. Other developers, like Mouldy Toof Studios, now create The Escapists series and other games while Team17 publishes them and brokers them to Sony. I'm not sure how much of the responsibility for the Woodbury glitch (Escapists, TWD) is on the publisher (Team17) and how much is on the developer (Mouldy Toof Studios). Both share some responsibility. Mouldy Toof should have caught the glitch in QA, and Team17 should have kept a game-breaking patch in-house until Mouldy Toof corrected it. Regardless of where the fault lies, Team17 has a spotty record of plastering kid-friendly graphics over unforgiving, broken mechanics as both a developer and a publisher.

 

Hell Let Loose (2021) is like The Escapists in that it was developed by Black Matter and published by Team17. I don't know about any glitches for that game, and have only heard good things about the tough but authentic FPS firefights. It could be Black Matter is more diligent about their QA process than Mouldy Toof. Idk. I agree that it is hard to consider buying more Team17 games after Lemmings and The Escapists. Team17 aggressively pursued Sony in 2021, trying to build a bigger fan base. The free PS Plus games Overcooked, Hell Let Loose, and Worms Rumble are all Team17 titles. I'm gun shy on playing any of them, save Hell Let Loose, and even that title I don't want to play without researching it first. However, I have heard good things about it, so hopefully Team17 has turned a corner for the positive. Lemmings is definitely a skeleton in their closet, though.

Edited by poetic_justice_
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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, poetic_justice_ said:

steel6burgh, back in 2006(?) when Lemmings was released for PS3, Team17 was only a small indie developer. Team17 Software developed Lemmings, but Sony published it (For reasons I don't understand, PSNP lists the Lemmings' developer as DMA Design, but on the title screen of Lemmings it clearly displays "(C) 2009 Team17 Software Limited". Perhaps DMA Design was Team17's old company name). Fast forward to 2015, nine years later, and Team17 has become large enough to transition to be a publisher. Other developers, like Mouldy Toof Studios, now create The Escapists series and other games while Team17 publishes them and brokers them to Sony. I'm not sure how much of the responsibility for the Woodbury glitch (Escapists, TWD) is on the publisher (Team17) and how much is on the developer (Mouldy Toof Studios). Both share some responsibility. Mouldy Toof should have caught the glitch in QA, and Team17 should have kept a game-breaking patch in-house until Mouldy Toof corrected it. Regardless of where the fault lies, Team17 has a spotty record of plastering kid-friendly graphics over unforgiving, broken mechanics as both a developer and a publisher.

 

Hell Let Loose (2021) is like The Escapists in that it was developed by Black Matter and published by Team17. I don't know about any glitches for that game, and have only heard good things about the tough but authentic FPS firefights. It could be Black Matter is more diligent about their QA process than Mouldy Toof. Idk. I agree that it is hard to consider buying more Team17 games after Lemmings and The Escapists. Team17 aggressively pursued Sony in 2021, trying to build a bigger fan base. The free PS Plus games Overcooked, Hell Let Loose, and Worms Rumble are all Team17 titles. I'm gun shy on playing any of them, save Hell Let Loose, and even that title I don't want to play without researching it first. However, I have heard good things about it, so hopefully Team17 has turned a corner for the positive. Lemmings is definitely a skeleton in their closet, though.

No i played hell let loose it was good just meant that it was free so i didn't have to buy it after the experience with The escapist game.  There is no excuse to leave a game completely broken with a major progression bug.  Therefore i blame both the Devs and the publisher.  You shouldn't be able to get away with selling someone something broken.  But anyway you really know your stuff very impressive. I would never have looked into all that.

 

Also the Escapist games were really great games which is another reason i'm kinda upset about not being able to finish them.  i might someday try to get it done with the speed run method but it really just seems to be a bit annoying because aside from learning the map and failing over and over your at the mercy of RNG as well.  

Edited by steel6burgh
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1 hour ago, poetic_justice_ said:

steel6burgh, back in 2006(?) when Lemmings was released for PS3, Team17 was only a small indie developer. Team17 Software developed Lemmings, but Sony published it (For reasons I don't understand, PSNP lists the Lemmings' developer as DMA Design, but on the title screen of Lemmings it clearly displays "(C) 2009 Team17 Software Limited". Perhaps DMA Design was Team17's old company name).

 

DMA Design is actually the old name of Rockstar - they were called DMA Design when they developed GTA and GTA2, and Lemmings, among other games.

 

Team 17 took over Lemming with that PS3 version I believe, so it's most likely there were still contractual nuances in play, resulting in the discrepancy between the title screen, and the IP ownership / legacy code within the game.

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On 5/25/2022 at 11:55 PM, steel6burgh said:

There is no excuse to leave a game completely broken with a major progression bug.  Therefore i blame both the Devs and the publisher.  You shouldn't be able to get away with selling someone something broken.  But anyway you know your stuff. I would never have looked into all that.

 

Also the Escapist games were really great games which is another reason i'm kinda upset about not being able to finish them.  i might someday try to get it done with the speed run method but it really just seems to be a bit annoying because aside from learning the map and failing over and over your at the mercy of RNG as well.  

Agreed. Selling broken digital products is just as immoral as selling broken cars or broken tools a

23 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

DMA Design is actually the old name of Rockstar - they were called DMA Design when they developed GTA and GTA2, and Lemmings, among other games.

 

Team 17 took over Lemming with that PS3 version I believe, so it's most likely there were still contractual nuances in play, resulting in the discrepancy between the title screen, and the IP ownership / legacy code within the game.

No way! DMA was Rockstar?! Rockstar developed the original Lemmings? Crazy. Lemmings San Andreas!

 

Looking through the Team17 catalog on PSNP, I realized how much Lemmings is influenced by the gameplay of Team17's flagship series, Worms. Lemmings (PS3) appears to use the same engine as Worms (compare the timer and explosion of a Bomber Lemming with a Worms hand grenade), and it becomes clearer why the placement of certain items in Lemmings has to be pixel-perfect. The Worms games were designed for the precision of mouse and keyboard, not the broad, sweeping motions of a Dualshock controller. It is very apparent in certain levels, particularly Mayhem levels 7-10, that Lemmings was never adjusted for console controls. Team17 probably developed Lemmings on PC, added a generic controller-compatibility folder into the game's software, then shipped Lemmings with "Guud enuf" stamped on its package. I doubt the development staff actually played, tested, and completed all 44 levels with a Dualshock 3. My guess is they spent 75-95% of their time playing and testing Lemmings with a mouse and keyboard. Old habits die hard, and PC+mouse-and-keyboard was how Team17 had been developing their Worms games for years. When Team17 developed Lemmings for PS3, it was a console game in name only; Team17 were still building the core gameplay experience to suit PC peripherals, not controllers. I doubt they recognized they were building a fatal flaw into the game by doing this, or perhaps they didn't care. Either way, the end product is terrible.

 

If anyone is interested in seeing the rest of Team17's catalog, go to the PSNP Game page for Worms Rumble and clicking on the Team17 hyperlink. It will be on the right side of the page, a blue hyperlink below the game's thumbnail, underneath the word "Publisher".

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8 minutes ago, poetic_justice_ said:

Agreed. Selling broken digital products is just as immoral as selling broken cars or broken tools a

No way! DMA was Rockstar?! Rockstar developed the original Lemmings? Crazy. Lemmings San Andreas!

 

Haha - I know, it's funny to think about now, but every design house has to start somewhere I guess - In their case, as a few guys in a little office in Dundee!

 

I actually always assumed the Hare Krishna's in the original GTA (who walked along in little lines, waiting to get run over, for bonus points) were a bit of a nod to their Lemmings past!

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1 minute ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I always assumed the Hare Krishna's in the original GTA (who walked along in little lines, waiting to get run over, for bonus points) were a bit of a nod to their Lemmings past!

 

Hare Krishna Lemmings. That image is so existentially dark! 

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