Skills vs Practice

[GMZ]

I'd like to talk about the skills we have when we play games, each player's skill isn't the same as the other one therefor you see others got tough platinums while others can't get those same tough platinums, as for me there are some games that i really couldn't plat or 100% such as Mad Max because of its racings, Driveclub series, the first MotoGPs because i suck at racing games, also Front Mission Evolved, 007 Bloodstone again because of the car mission and Red Faction Guerrilla.

 

My point here is i don't believe in practice, your skills got a roof and limits that you're born with, i've tried and tried and tried but i just couldn't and i can't be stuck with those games eventually you have to move on to play other games.

 

One example is 007 Bloodstone that chasing mission in Istanbul really broke me, i spent 10 straight days trying and trying but in the end i gave up especially when i thought i was doing my best but yet no trophy and from there i was like ok this is the best i can, no trophy then that's it what can i do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

So what do you guys think ? share me your experience on that subject like did you struggle with a trophy and you thought that's it ? or maybe a little practice that made it work ?

Let me know.

[Yukiko Miyamoto]

I spent 1 week for this trophy. https://psnprofiles.com/trophy/8575-scintillatron-4096/9-perfect-20  I actually gave up on this game then decided to returned to this game ?. It was definitely worth it since nobody else has this trophy and a few others . Now the game is so much easier without that trophy and the million score trophy.

Edited May 28, 2022 by gamercris066

[GMZ]

4 minutes ago, gamercris066 said:

I spent 1 week for this trophy. https://psnprofiles.com/trophy/8575-scintillatron-4096/9-perfect-20  I actually gave up on this game then decided to returned to this game ?. It was definitely worth it since nobody else has this trophy and a few others .

Wow that's impressive, only you got that trophy lol, good job but wait, no one got the platinum yet i am afraid it is glitched and the developers won't bother fix it. 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Great_MazingerZ

[Yukiko Miyamoto]

43 minutes ago, Great_MazingerZ said:

Wow that's impressive, only you got that trophy lol, good job but wait, no one got the platinum yet i am afraid it is glitched and the developers won't bother fix it. 

Thank you. I'm still trying to get the last trophies for the platinum then I will continue making a trophy guide for the game.

Edited May 28, 2022 by gamercris066

[PostalDudeRus]

time + practice = skill

[DrBloodmoney]

2 hours ago, PostalDudeRus said:

time + practice = skill

This.

 

I believe that, aside from actual physical impairment and disabilities of that nature, every person on this site is capable of getting even the most difficult of trophies - it’s just a question of how much time they are willing to dedicate to practicing and acquiring the skill level required.

 

Previous experience, personality and general aptitude will affect that amount of time required, but not the ceiling.

 

It’s been said that it takes 10,000 hours to be a master of any task, and I believe that…

 

…the only question is, whether the game is good enough or fun enough to support those 10,000 hours it might take!

Edited May 28, 2022 by DrBloodmoney

[DaveMcDamage]

Its just like being born with drive and not having it. It you don't have the natural skill for drive then chances are your work life is going to be utter shite, but if you can fight it and commit a lot of hard work then eventually you can achieve a better working life. 

 

So I don't believe in limits, but I do believe the mindset of the masses needs far more practice to get what they want to achieve, rather than someone who is naturally gifted etc. 

 

When I game I just suck at it. But I never wanted to get better either. For me its just entertainment and so I've never had that urge to really challenge myself. For many years until my 30's I barely gamed at all, but since getting into from then until now and enjoying trophies, I still don't get that urge to smash through a toughy. Mucho kudos to the guys that do though, as long as they also really love the game as well. 

[Baranov_925]

I know it is probably shame, but when I was about to earn Flappy Goat, I downloaded Flappy bird on phone to train

It helped me a lot. 

[GoonerLukeThe]

honestly you can surprise yourself with what you can actually do, just have to want it enough and that is for anything in life not just trophies

[DrBloodmoney]

Just now, LukeTheGooner said:

honestly you can surprise yourself with what you can actually do, just have to want it enough and that is for anything in life not just trophies

 

I believe Keyser Soze said it best:

 

"To get rare trophies, you don't need natural ability, or reaction times, or mad skills... you just need the will to do what the other guy won't."

[z99f]

13 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

"To get rare trophies, you don't need natural ability, or reaction times, or mad skills... you just need the will to do what the other guy won't."

 

This is the mindset needed. Sure, time and practice are two factors that will ultimately determine if/when you get a difficult trophy, however, both of them will be worthless if the proper mindset isn't adopted. In other words, you're most likely not going to put in the time to practice if you haven't developed the appropriate mindset when completing the more difficult challenges in games. You would be surprised how much you can accomplish when you change the way you look at things... this also applies to real life too. 

Edited May 28, 2022 by z99f

[Slava]

Yeah, what PostalDude and DrBloodmoney said. I don't think there are any limits outside of health-related stuff.

 

The real difference, I think, is only how fast you can improve. One person will go from drawing stick figures to professional art in 2 years, another one will do the same in 5. Same with videogames. One will platinum Super Meat Boy in a couple of weeks, someone else will spent months to reach it. It depends on a million diffrent factors. The path to your goal may be different, but eventually, you'll reach it.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Slava

[DrBloodmoney]

8 minutes ago, z99f said:

 

This is the mindset needed. Sure, time and practice are two factors that will ultimately determine if/when you get a difficult trophy, however, both of them will be worthless if the proper mindset isn't adopted. In other words, you're most likely not going to put the time in to practice if you haven't developed the appropriate mindset when completing the more difficult challenges in games. You would be surprised how much you can accomplish when you change the way you look at things... this also applies to real life too. 

 

Absolutely ?

 

I have (according to this site) something in the region of 500 UR trophies, and I can categorically state that not one of them was earned by me being "naturally" or "inherently" better at games than the 95% of folks who played the game but didn't earn them.

 

It has nothing to do with any "engrained ability" - trust me - I'm almost legendarily bad at games among my friends ?

Virtually any game I pick up, I am worse at than most people are to begin with.

 

The only genre for which that might not be the case now is Puzzle games... but that's purely as a result of having played a lot of them, and has nothing to do with innate ability.

I just learned some of how they work, and the mindset required to solve them by playing a lot of them over a long period of time... it's not like I fell out of my mother's vagina with a Rubik's Cube clutched in my infant hand!  ?

Edited May 28, 2022 by DrBloodmoney

[Arzoden]

I just can't agree with this. I have a great example

 

A game called Wargroove 

 

This game was my first Strategy Turn based game and in addition to that it is very hard. It was so hard in fact that i as one who does not have any experince started dreaming of the completing the game at night after 1 week of a constant 7 hours of playing it a day.

 

I felt like i was never going to complete this game and felt like a useless gamer with no IQ. However when i came close to 2 weeks of non stop playing and trying different tactics and strategies i noticed a increase in my abillity to perform and just yesterday i got the platinum for it. Took me 2 weeks in total and i am currently Nr 8 on fastest platinum achiever on that game despite having no experience turn based strategy games at all.

 

I reached out to the maker of a guide for that game @Dsr8002 And he helped me a lot with how i should play and what mistakes not to make when playing.

 

My point is that practice does indeed give you skills if you put in enough time.

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Arzoden

[z99f]

23 minutes ago, Arzoden said:

However when i came close to 2 weeks of non stop playing and trying different tactics and strategies i noticed a increase in my abillity to perform and just yesterday i got the platinum for it. Took me 2 weeks in total and i am currently Nr 8 on fastest platinum achiever on that game despite having no experience turn based strategy games at all.

 

I think this actually lends credence to the idea of practice helping players improve over time, not simply through natural ability alone. The fact that you saw improvements in your abilities after 2 weeks of playing non stop is proof of this. Personally, I think 'time investment' can also take the form of doing research on a game to find better strategies and techniques. It's also entirely possible that you would have discovered the same strategies you used if you had simply played the game long enough (I don't know the game so forgive my lack of knowledge if this isn't the case). 

 

I am not saying that there aren't instances of players just being naturally good at a game because it does happen. However, I don't think it happens nearly as much as we sometimes like to think it does. Is it possible you were naturally good at this game? Sure. However, judging by what you said, it still looks like you put in the time and practiced to get to the point where you could implement the strategies that helped you complete the game. 

Edited May 28, 2022 by z99f

[ExHaseo]

The only way to develop a skill is to practice. That's true of everything. If someone seems inherently good at something, it's because they've done it a lot. You're only seeing the result of all of the hours they've already put in.

 

I'll use myself as an example. I'm not the best gamer around, but I have a decent number of URs. I'm at 225 total and 20 plats. About half of those plats are fighting games. I didn't get them because I'm just inherently good at fighting games though. I just spent a lot of time playing fighting games when I was younger. I spent hundreds of hours in practice mode learning combos and thousands practicing against other people. Even then, I'm still not great at them. I played enough to learn and understand the basics of fighting games though. Things like basic footsies, defense, mixups, and what basic combo structure usually is. With that knowledge I was able to apply it to other fighting games, which made them a little easier. I still had to put in the work to actually get them though. Many of them took a long time. The point being, I'm not just inherently good at fighting games. I just practiced a lot.

[CelestialRequiem]

9 hours ago, Great_MazingerZ said:

My point here is i don't believe in practice

Ridiculous. 

 

You need to practice to tackle things that are foreign. This goes for everything - not just games. Language learning, for example. You need to practice that. 

[EDGES]

I 100% guarantee you that I can practice certain styles of gameplay 10 years and I still wouldn't be good at it, MOBA style gameplay, PVP FPS, 2D POV fighters and simulation racers

but 3rd person action games? I've mastered the Arkham style combat, the Souls style combat, TPS, arcade racers, 3D POV fighters, anything that is 3D POV 3rd person, I'm going to do it one way or another, I just can't get in line with different perspective games like top down, FPS, cockpit view racing, traditional fighters, I need camera freedom and spatial awareness, otherwise I feel limited

idk if it's talent, but for example, I have seen people punch their TVs and break their controllers at games like Nioh, and for me, Nioh is one of the easiest games I've ever played

now, I'm not saying I can LV1, no death, no equipment beat the game in one run or do WR speedruns like some guys do, that's another level that I don't understand and don't care to understand

Edited May 28, 2022 by The Investigator

[GMZ]

Sometimes the problem with my practice or attempts toward beating any challenge is the lack of knowledge i mean i might be doing something wrong and i don't know any other way of doing it, and in cases like these i tend to give up because i will always do the same thing over and over as i don't know any other trick or other ways.

Since all of you believe that there is no impossible then maybe that's the reason of making me feel my skills are not good enough to beat whatever is in my way.

[AJ_Radio]

I can’t agree with some of the points being said here. 
 

You need to practice to develop the skills. Vanquish is a good example. Challenge 6 alone took around 12 hours of attempts. You die repeatedly, and you may often get frustrated. The key is to not give up. Take a break if need be. Practice a bit each day and if you feel you’re not making progress then set that aside and do something else. Come back when you feel like you’re ready. 
 

The final Senna event in the Gran Turismo 6 DLC took me a solid 10 - 12 hours of playing to beat. You may think it’s too hard, but once you start a rhythm going then it’s simply a matter of practice and execution. Another way of saying it’s trial and error.

Edited May 29, 2022 by AJ_Radio

[ReverzerO-]

17 hours ago, Great_MazingerZ said:

My point here is i don't believe in practice, your skills got a roof and limits that you're born with, i've tried and tried and tried but i just couldn't and i can't be stuck with those games eventually you have to move on to play other games.

Conceding with those AI games can be an epic. Quit gaming your controller is broken?

[GMZ]

16 hours ago, CelestialRequiem said:

Ridiculous. 

 

You need to practice to tackle things that are foreign. This goes for everything - not just games. Language learning, for example. You need to practice that. 

Yeah that might have been exaggerated but sometimes for me even with practice i still suck, i am talking about games here. 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Great_MazingerZ

[Lava_Yuki]

I agree, especially when it comes to games like action, racing, rhythm and fighting games. 

I could never win a level on expert mode in those hatsune miku games, my music sense is appalling, I just can't get in touch with the beats for music, I just about manage music games on easy or normal mode, and struggled with hard mode to just clear the level let along get a very good or perfect score. My thumbs are not dextrous enough.  

 

I can also never win against a lot of the post game bosses in the KH games. I have played every single KH game and still with all that time and practice, I never had the skills to beat the data bosses in KH remind, or get any of the critical mode trophies. I just get hit and sora dies. All those people on youtube who showcase their insane combos are amazing, I could never do that. 

 

Some things in life take practice, but there are things that take talent that no amount of practice will get you if you don't have the innate talent for, this applies to many things in life, not just gaming. If it wasn't the case, everyone would be a neurosurgeon or something. 

[GMZ]

1 hour ago, Lava_Yuki said:

I agree, especially when it comes to games like action, racing, rhythm and fighting games. 

I could never win a level on expert mode in those hatsune miku games, my music sense is appalling, I just can't get in touch with the beats for music, I just about manage music games on easy or normal mode, and struggled with hard mode to just clear the level let along get a very good or perfect score. My thumbs are not dextrous enough.  

 

I can also never win against a lot of the post game bosses in the KH games. I have played every single KH game and still with all that time and practice, I never had the skills to beat the data bosses in KH remind, or get any of the critical mode trophies. I just get hit and sora dies. All those people on youtube who showcase their insane combos are amazing, I could never do that. 

 

Some things in life take practice, but there are things that take talent that no amount of practice will get you if you don't have the innate talent for, this applies to many things in life, not just gaming. If it wasn't the case, everyone would be a neurosurgeon or something. 

Exactly my point, thanks for understanding it, hence why there are players like Messi and Ronaldo and there are tons of other players who aren't as talented as they are despite that they go to training almost everyday, we have millions of players but only handful of legends.

 

As for fighting games, trust me, i've tried and tried and tried to master those combos and i failed at the normal ones let alone the hard ones lol, no practice would help me get them, i gotta be gifted with some talent, yes some games do need practice because you are close and you know it will work eventually but some other games you don't see the light so from there you know you're wasting your time.

[VigilantCrow]

Fully agree that anyone can achieve any trophy with enough time, unless they have an impairment. 

This isn't real life where small genetic differences make or break careers, games only require repetition and time.

 

People give up because they lack patience, which ultimately is a skill you develop over time as well.