Sly *needs* to add a development team

[HusKy]

On 20. 6. 2022 at 10:40 AM, Shikotei-kun said:

I've also read about the marking of unobtainable trophies due to server shutdowns, glitches or bugs. This is not an automatable feature and must therefore be manually flagged. There are also examples of servers (or online related features) getting brought back temporarily. One would have to keep track of the literally thousands of online games and know their status every day -in case such server partially returns- to mark or unmark a trophy as unobtainable.

Since this would be pointed to in tons of dispute threads, this data must be accurate and thus time consuming. And because it's manually flagged, flaggers are needed. Not everyone must be able to flag them because it will be abused. The dispute subforum is already a hotbed that doesn't need extra fuel for the flames.

Sure, it's a nice feature, but ultimately you (as player) can easily find out if a game's server is up and running, or dead in the water. There's even a dedicated thread with all the knowledge you need.

 

I will just hop in and say that we are already doing this [1]. We have a crowd sourced and peer reviewed master list of ~900 trophy lists that contain unobtainable trophies  -- and all of this in machine readable form. The data is then displayed by PSNP+ directly on the website. [2]

 

Saying that a genuinely useful feature should not be added because some John Doe might submit a wrong flag (already happening without it) is just plain wrong. It's there to protect players from starting broken games.

 

[1] https://forum.psnprofiles.com/topic/118915-psnp-unobtainable-trophies-master-list/

[2] https://forum.psnprofiles.com/topic/78709-psnp-v57-improved-psnp-game-lists-and-more/

Edited June 21, 2022 by HusKy

[Darling Baphomet]

"Sly can do whatever he want, it's his website" is a non-argument. Just because you can do something does not mean you should, and does not mean that other people have to approve of you doing so. The fact of the matter is that PSNP is a community that has suffered neglect, which in and of itself warrants complaints from members of the community, but on top of that it's a community that offers paid memberships; surely consumers have the right to criticize their product, no?

 

But besides that, equating an entire community with one man's work is reductive and nonsensical. A community is not just forum software. It takes people to create a community, and those people exert a significant amount of effort into maintaining that community - both the mods (who, as said by others, are unpaid), and the people who create and contribute to the discussions, events, etc that keep the forum alive. And all those people have the right to be upset if they feel their collective work and community are being threatened.

[Silver-I-Chariot]

58 minutes ago, Shikotei-kun said:

Sly's not our developer; we are not customers. We don't pay him for anything. We're freeloaders enjoying the hard work of a single person. We're not entitled to anything. Not even Premium members (does it say anything about mandatory feature updates anywhere in the ToS you agreed upon?).

 

Lastly: just because Sly is the only dev doesn't mean he has monopoly. There are other sites that track trophies. It's very simple to just hop on over to a different one if you're not happy here. Nobody is forcing you to stay, nobody is forcing you to leave either, nobody is forcing you to pick just one tracking site. Nobody is also going to stop you from creating your own tracking site. There're starter kits you can use to get the basic framework and work your way up from there.

 

You can apply the same logic to any other free platform out there. "Zuck owns Facebook/Instagram/Whatsapp and we are just freeloaders enjoying his hard work. We are not entitled to anything from Jack Dorsey who owns Twitter. Just make your own YouTube if you don't like it or use competition. You are not customers, take it or leave it."

 

The ability of some people to defend questionable business practices and devs never stops to amaze me. Now obviously Sly is nowhere near as bad as mentioned website owners but the argument you are making is a bit silly. Oh and he does make money off this website so we kind of are his customers, no?

[Infected Elite]

6 hours ago, Silver-I-Chariot said:

 

I'm not sure what's the reason for this but I've seen lots of people complain about loading speed on this website. My internet isn't bad either and this is the only website I have issues with.

i dont so who knows. Sucks for them

[sepheroithisgod]

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but a user has to implement changes instead of the website owner making money off it. It's ridiculous.

 

At the very least, the website should actually run fast. It shouldn't take 5 to 10 seconds for a forum to load. That is rule number one of running a website ( I work in the web hosting business). It just tells me that the bare minimum for this website is not being done.

 

He could also just try to communicate with the userbase. Due to how "hands-off" he is, a forum post explaining what's been going on would go a long way. Instead, he's basically become a meme with how consistently he ignores user requests.

 

The worst is that he ignores the premium members supporting the website financially.

[Deadly_Ha_Ha]

I see we got the classic super helpful Daiv responses to start off here

[You]

First rule of having a business / becoming a celebrity.

 

Never enable yourself to direct access to your customer base, or else you'll be harassed, get hate mail, everyone want to be your friend etc.

 

If you have a successful business and next to no competition threatening it, why would you need to do anything except just sit and watch the money rolling in? If any of us owned this site instead, we'd be doing the same.

 

Competition breeds innovation, and change. No way Sony would have implemented trophies if they weren't worried about Microsoft's achievement system.

If we're being honest, the new features being requested for this site, they are nice to have but not essential. How many people would leave this site tomorrow if none of them ever got implemented and it was announced that they NEVER would.

 

Anybody?

 

Until a psnprofiles.com beating website where everybody starts moving to there and user engagement here drops, I doubt anything will change.

 

Sly is doing the absolute correct thing by staying away and saying as little as possible about anything.

Unless something is really broken and needs fixing he stays away. Which to me just seems like common sense.

 

Perhaps one could say, he's a bit Sly!  Ba dum tisch.

Edited June 20, 2022 by enaysoft

[SnuggleButt_]

Spread kindness.

[MikeCheck--]

All I can say is thank you Sly for creating the site, for making it what it is today . . . which is what it has been for years now. That said, I only stay here thanks to the work HusKy puts into this site. I would follow him to a new site should that ever happen. What is really tragic is we cannot even elicit any response from Sly, no monthly update at least? 

[Sailar91]

Nothing is gonna change, I've seen so many thread like this one, and the owner of the site never responded or did anything. I think that one a competitor could bring some change, and I reali hope one day someone will code anther site about trophies becouse there is a good amount of users that enjoy this kind of entertainment. With a mass migration to another site this one will slowly die (he can run the site as he wants, but users are the ones that keep a site alive!)

Edited June 20, 2022 by Sailar91

[Tirmata]

I just want to point out, one of the major reasons why this website/platform is great because of the community. When I say community, it is not just the forum posts, it includes the guides, comments on these guides, certain users (voluntarily or by part of some teams) who keeps helping people to make gaming more fun for everyone. 

 

It is true that this website enabled to create this community, but with complete honesty I didn't see such community like this in anywhere else (beyond gaming). I think it is very unique. That's why even though I am not part of the leaderboards, this is my #1 gaming site and also keep me close PS over other consoles ?

 

Still, mostly all the goods things come to an end sadly. With the existing attitude and abandonment of this platform, it doesn't seem to have a bright future. The owner, for sure, earns a good amount of money thanks to his previous effort. But he doesn't use this money to give it back to community (i.e. hire few devs part-time). In the end, it is his choice, but don't worry even if this platform sinks at some point, there will be others in the future. Just play, have fun, and benefit from this community.

[Milktastrophe]

6 hours ago, Shikotei-kun said:

1. Some of the features that other sites display are incorrect (the PS4/PS5 playtime can be off by over 20%).

I've got save files of over 500 hours where the PS5 states just shy of 400. Files that state 16 hours where PS5 states just 12. People have pointed in the Disputes subforum to these numbers for reasons of flagging (time spent too low), but they just aren't accurate enough. Not to mention that PS3 times are unavailable, PS4 games before 2020 (or something) are off by even more. It's pointless information.

 

2. The rarity leaderboard was abandoned due to the community not being able to agree which formula to use for the points calculation (hence the myriad of threads).

There have been multiple attempts to get a consensus, but each has been met with resistance at almost every step along the way. You want a rarity leaderboard? Get your heads together and figure out the rules for it that satisfies everyone. The majority got discarded because the "high raw numbers still win" scenario (which is why I think the current normal leaderboard is "not appealing" to say the least) and those with a cut-off point (above which rarity % trophies don't count) is never agreed upon.

 

3. Sly has not responded openly to many requests for various reasons (unknown to me, just to you don't think I have any personal or direct connection), but as I read through these suggestions (and the Site Help subforum), I get the distinct feeling that people have gotten lazy. They don't want to look up things that take just a two keyword or two in a search engine. How many times has the same "my trophies are gone" topic opened up? How many times must a forumite be pointed to a stickied thread in the same subforum?

 

4. Sly's not our developer; we are not customers. We don't pay him for anything. We're freeloaders enjoying the hard work of a single person. We're not entitled to anything. Not even Premium members (does it say anything about mandatory feature updates anywhere in the ToS you agreed upon?).

 

5. Lastly: just because Sly is the only dev doesn't mean he has monopoly. There are other sites that track trophies. It's very simple to just hop on over to a different one if you're not happy here. Nobody is forcing you to stay, nobody is forcing you to leave either, nobody is forcing you to pick just one tracking site. Nobody is also going to stop you from creating your own tracking site. There're starter kits you can use to get the basic framework and work your way up from there.

 

6. From my experiences as a dev myself have taught me that end-users have no concept of frameworks, architectural choices and how a simple request can easily break the system because of a choice once made.

1. Just because the playtime is not available for all games or can be inaccurate in some cases is not a reason to exclude it. It's interesting information that comes directly from Sony. You know what else is pointless info that the site displays anyway? Completion rate, unearned trophies, trophies earned per game/the community, completion time (oh no, this number is even inaccurate too because it doesn't count the time before the first trophy). This playtime not being a valid reason for flagging wouldn't suddenly become one just because the site starts showing it.

 

2. The community doesn't need to pick a formula for a rarity leaderboard. Sly just needs to pick anything and link the rarity leaderboard from the site. The site doesn't even have accurate rarities for DLC trophies, so no formula is going to be accurate anyway.

 

3. People not searching for answers for questions has nothing to do whether improvements should be made to a site. In fact, improvements should be made to keep users around so there's people to help out with those repeated questions. Those are not something Sly needs to address directly.

 

4. It was already mentioned, but it's worth reiterating that this point is 100% wrong. There's paid memberships and ads, we are customers of this site.

 

5. Saying PSNP isn't a monopoly is a kinda like saying Google isn't a monopoly. Technically there are other sites out there, but they don't do what PSNP does near well enough to replace it. For people that care about leaderboards, PSNP's is probably by far the most accurate for using Sony's point system and removing cheaters. For casual tracking, PSNP looks by far the best visually. Hell, some of the other sites when I view games, I have no idea which trophies I've already earned and which I still need. Do other sites even have gaming sessions other than forum posts? The guide integration here destroys other sites when it's linked to your list so you can actually easily track what trophies you still need. Of course people can create their own version of any site, so the existing ones should continue to improve so that people don't feel compelled that they have to.

 

6. Have your experiences as a dev also taught you that communication with your customers can go a long away? Train Sim World has broken profiles for what, 6 months? A year? Had Sly come out and said in the very beginning that it's an issue that will take a significant amount of time to fix, that would have gone a long way to quell a lot of people. Instead I think his first statement on the subject was within the past couple weeks. Again, allowing profiles not to sync, the site's primary feature, for an extended period of time.

 

Edit: I think #6 may be a bit snarkier than I intended. Shikotei-kun, please don't take it as insulting or an attack on you. I phrased it that way because of the section of your post that it's responding to.

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by Milktastrophe

[da-Noob123]

To quote a certain video game developer: "It just works."

 

Jokes aside, I appreciate that this site exists and it does do a lot already as is. Plus it actually works and has an active user base. It is disappointing that there don't appear to be any changes or updates on the horizon but right now, it is the best site out there for us trophy hunters.

[sweeping-lamp3]

I did some quick comparison visits on the "competition" using the reddit link below.

PSNProfiles blows the competition away in almost every aspect.

PSNProfiles is definitely the best trophy tracking site and I can see it deserves its prestige. 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by sweeping-lamp3

[HoorayForTyler]

3 hours ago, Deadly_Ha_Ha said:

I see we got the classic super helpful Daiv responses to start off here

It’s a meme at this point. Instead of being an informative, helpful mod, he will respond to the simplest of topics with something snarky for no reason. He’d also rather delete people’s comments in the forums than allow open discussions.  
 

I also wish there was a little less bootlicking and a little more transparency from the moderators. Either Sly doesn’t care about the development of PSNProfiles, or constructive criticism given continues to fall on deaf ears…or both. I’m honestly curious what the actual reasoning is behind the site’s stagnation. Yeah, it’s still the best trophy tracking site available today, but that doesn’t mean it’ll stay that way forever. 

[Shikotei-kun]

5 hours ago, Silver-I-Chariot said:

Oh and he does make money off this website so we kind of are his customers, no?

42 minutes ago, Milktastrophe said:

It was already mentioned, but it's worth reiterating that this point is 100% wrong. There's paid memberships and ads, we are customers of this site.

As I understand it, ad revenue is mostly based on how many people actually click on the ads displayed on the website. If you don't click ads, you don't generate as much revenue for this site. If you've got something that blocks ads, like an ad-blocking plugin, web-address blocker, or other program/setting that prevents this site from even showing ads, then you're not even giving this site the chance to get you to generate revenue. In all cases you're not paying for anything.

I may have jumped subject too fast to follow, but my comment about Premium members was aimed at "being entitled to updates" (updates being what this thread is about). Premium members have forked over cash and can thus be categorized as customers, I'll admit. As such, did any of them read the ToS and can they point me to the clause where it says what Sly will do for them regarding maintenance, upgrades, and other services?

 

42 minutes ago, Milktastrophe said:

Just because the playtime is not available for all games or can be inaccurate in some cases is not a reason to exclude it. It's interesting information that comes directly from Sony. You know what else is pointless info that the site displays anyway? Completion rate, unearned trophies, trophies earned per game/the community, completion time (oh no, this number is even inaccurate too because it doesn't count the time before the first trophy). This playtime not being a valid reason for flagging wouldn't suddenly become one just because the site starts showing it.

The point was that the playtime data is inaccurately measured by Sony. The other numbers and timespans are based on the trophy timestamps. I'm not defending every number this site displays (or could potentially display), but a bunch of them are either "look how big this number is" or are used to determine other numbers (number of players + number of earned trophies (in points) => average completion) and are probably there for architectural purposes. It would be a simple task to also output them to the webpage for funsies. Probably just Sly's personal choice along with a slew of logical ones. If or when he decides to add playtime I wouldn't truly care. Like completionists care more about 100% profiles versus those who play a game for an hour before hop-skipping to the next without a care: different priority measurements. I can understand you want it, you should understand I don't need it.

It's my opinion that the playtime number is pointless due to being inaccurate. PSNP's completion time is also inaccurate because it doesn't account for time not played. It's not intended to be as accurate as a speedrunner's playtime. That's a whole different category.

Many of the statistics are just what someone can calculate based on the given information: earned vs unearned, date earned, time between first and last earned. Completion time is what this site calls the latter. Sly built a toy that gave him dates (per trophy per game per player) and info about games and their trophies.

 

42 minutes ago, Milktastrophe said:

The community doesn't need to pick a formula for a rarity leaderboard. Sly just needs to pick anything and link the rarity leaderboard from the site. The site doesn't even have accurate rarities for DLC trophies, so no formula is going to be accurate anyway.

The funny bit is, that Sly at one point did pick a formula. The community then had multiple back-and-forths until there was an example leaderboard (probably the one that's still there). After that, the discussion turns back to determining the right formula (high numbers vs high rarity). Since then the thread had seen several revivals until finally locked for going against forum rules (and very much off-topic).

The DLC trophy rarity is another subject that was heavily discussed (and still gets some attention).

- Rarity based on owners

Followed by a new discussion caused by DLC trophy rarity with just one trophy. Acquisition difficulty aside, that would always be at 100% as Sony doesn't include ownership of DLC's in its API.

- Rarity base on geometric mean

Either you gotta ignore the non-DLC owners (which pisses off non-DLC owners because you can now "buy UR trophies") or count only DLC owners (which makes all single-trophy DLC's rarity fixed to 100% and piss off earners). Either way, people will get pissed. There's more than a few interested parties who'd love to hear the solution that would satisfy both parties.

 

42 minutes ago, Milktastrophe said:

People not searching for answers for questions has nothing to do whether improvements should be made to a site. In fact, improvements should be made to keep users around so there's people to help out with those repeated questions. Those are not something Sly needs to address directly.

My point was not about people needing people to help them out. My point was about people not doing the bare minimum to find the answer to a question. It was a comment towards people's lazy behavior, and the requested features that would easily become obsolete with a little effort from the users.

There's stickied threads which function as FAQs, yet threads with questions whose answer lies in a sticky keep popping up.

Part of the rant, and indeed not directly related to Sly, but does cause requests to be made that should not be made.

 

42 minutes ago, Milktastrophe said:

Saying PSNP isn't a monopoly is a kinda like saying Google isn't a monopoly. Technically there are other sites out there, but they don't do what PSNP does near well enough to replace it. For people that care about leaderboards, PSNP's is probably by far the most accurate for using Sony's point system and removing cheaters. For casual tracking, PSNP looks by far the best visually. Hell, some of the other sites when I view games, I have no idea which trophies I've already earned and which I still need. Do other sites even have gaming sessions other than forum posts? The guide integration here destroys other sites when it's linked to your list so you can actually easily track what trophies you still need. Of course people can create their own version of any site, so the existing ones should continue to improve so that people don't feel compelled that they have to.

Competition breeds innovation, as someone stated here. And because PSNP is at the top of its game should give it some leniency towards the drive for even more innovation. I'm not saying development should be allowed to grind to a halt (which it hasn't). I may interpret your comment wrong, but "being the best at what you do" doesn't equal to having monopoly. It might lead to getting it, but without visitor numbers and other details from all trophy tracking sites (at least the major players) it's hard to accurately state the share each one has. I wouldn't know where to find such information.

Guide integration isn't flawless: it only works for the stack it was written for. It was a design choice and apparently not one easily overturned at the back-end.

 

42 minutes ago, Milktastrophe said:

Have your experiences as a dev also taught you that communication with your customers can go a long away? Train Sim World has broken profiles for what, 6 months? A year? Had Sly come out and said in the very beginning that it's an issue that will take a significant amount of time to fix, that would have gone a long way to quell a lot of people. Instead I think his first statement on the subject was within the past couple weeks. Again, allowing profiles not to sync, the site's primary feature, for an extended period of time.

Communication is key, yes. Accurately assessing the impact of an adjustment is difficult. I get the question "how long would it take to [..]?" often enough. Building new features is easier than fixing an existing one overall, but this is also depending on the existing code's flexibility. There are fixes that delay the consequences for a while, and fixes that change many design choices, but work until forever. What to do?

Would you rather Sly reply to every mention of a bug with "I'll get on it, gimme [amount] time"? If there's two bugs that take a week to fix, you won't get them both fixed in one week. Sometimes staying silent for a while before reporting with a wall of text the amount of work you've done will make the customer realize how much they've actually asked you to do.

Yes, Sly could've made a statement acknowledging the existence of the bug. Would that have sufficed? Or would it simply cause the focus to shift to "it's been [amount] time since his statement, why isn't it fixed?"?

I see little difference in the situation: still asking why it isn't fixed. There could be a myriad of bugs with smaller causes and simpler fixes that take less time to repair. Sly's statement about TSW2 mentioned a database architectural overhaul. Could be he's been working on this for several months and is now finally able to publicly state that he did. Who know how many fixes there have been without notice, and how many more there will be without notice.

 

My time as a dev also had me find and fix bugs that I stumbled upon in code that hasn't been touched in years. Stuff that never worked, but wasn't reported or triggered (because reasons). Should I have reported that I fixed an ancient bug that required lots of specific conditions to happen, or just fix it and take it along with the next update cycle?

 

What does the community actually expect Sly to do? What response would satisfy these announcement hungry folk?

[amurnin100]

40 minutes ago, Shikotei-kun said:

 

What does the community actually expect Sly to do? What response would satisfy these announcement hungry folk?

Monthly live  Q and A ( with limited numbers on Reddit?)

Feedback form to be added under contact us ?? (Update: this appears to already be implemented)

Monthly replies to “hot topic” questions and selected misc queries in the updates section?

 

The above would show that at least he is listening directly to the community, but again the above is not limited to the options available. 
 

And to appease the other side of the argument , I know he’s not “obliged” to do so but ya know, would be nice

Edited June 20, 2022 by amurnin100

[AJ_Radio]

I credit Sly Ripper for everything he’s contributed to this website. However, I have to say that the sheer miscommunication we’ve been getting these past few years has been a tad annoying, to say the least. 
 

A little while back I made a brief post on how Husky is doing a lot more than Sly. I’ve used PSP+ and it is a great option for people like me who are into statistics. 
 

We all have lives. We all have things that take us away from hobbies we enjoy, be it hiking, video games, sports, etc etc. We can be away for weeks, if not months.

 

If you’re extremely busy and you can’t monitor a website or whatever, wouldn’t it be a little courteous to send a brief message? 
 

A development team would be great, but the lack of communication likely means we’re not going to get one any time soon. 
 

I gave up suggesting anything because at this rate it’ll take years before it actually gets implemented, if the suggestion is approved. 

A little more communication would be greatly appreciated. 

[Dreakon13]

I don't have a leg in this race, but the idea of "its Sly's site, he can run it how he wants" isn't a great answer and it's undeniably true no matter how upset it makes you.  And I find the discussion about it amusing.  In all honesty the same idea applies to Facebook, Twitter, etc.  The only reason why Facebook and Twitter are under more scrutiny is because people are idiots, they believe everything they read on social media and let it sway them politically... which obviously has far greater consequences beyond that of a simple website.  These people are the reason why we have things like this and it'll never not be a little annoying watching the world cater to the lowest common denominators.

 

Fact of the matter is, Sly built the site, he pays the bills, the guy clearly had a passion for it (initially) and he's good at it... but he's under no obligation to continue developing it if he doesn't feel like it.  He's under no obligation to even keep it up and running.  Continued development and answers to feedback wasn't promised as part of the premium membership.

 

Now... that being said... if he likes the community, likes the premium memberships coming in... it's probably in his best interest to keep you all happy.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Dreakon13

[AJ_Radio]

17 minutes ago, Dreakon13 said:

I don't have a leg in this race, but the idea of "its Sly's site, he can run it how he wants" isn't a great answer and it's undeniably true no matter how upset it makes you.  And I find the discussion about it amusing.  In all honesty the same idea applies to Facebook, Twitter, etc.  The only reason why Facebook and Twitter are under more scrutiny is because people are idiots, they believe everything they read on social media and let it sway them politically... which obviously has far greater consequences beyond that of a simple website.  These people are the reason why we have things like this and it'll never not be a little annoying watching the world cater to the lowest common denominators.

 

Fact of the matter is, Sly built the site, he pays the bills, the guy clearly had a passion for it (initially) and he's good at it... but he's under no obligation to continue developing it if he doesn't feel like it.  He's under no obligation to even keep it up and running.  Continued development and answers to feedback wasn't promised as part of the premium membership.

 

Now... that being said... if he likes the community, likes the premium memberships coming in... it's probably in his best interest to keep you all happy.

 

You basically contradicted yourself here. Essentially you are saying "this is Sly's website, he can run it how it wants" which is exactly what's happening.

 

While not a popular place for most here, I often venture onto the PST.org forums. It doesn't have anywhere near the activity that PSNP gets, as this place as been for a long time been the #1 trophy hunting website.

 

That being said, everything that I've seen here since I first joined back in 2014 has been rather tame compared to the endless circle jerks and ranting on Twitter and Facebook. PSNP still allows open discussion and open debate, even though some of us think otherwise. Twitter and Facebook are both echo chambers where dissenting opinions are often silenced, which I've been a victim of countless times on them.

 

Forum websites tend to attract the worst of us and this is nothing new. The community here is no different than a lot of other places I've been to.

 

In conclusion, PSNP is by far the biggest trophy hunter website, and as long as it remains very active, I don't think Sly has any real obligations to keep making improvements.

[Dreakon13]

Just now, AJ_Radio said:

You basically contradicted yourself here. Essentially you are saying "this is Sly's website, he can run it how it wants" which is exactly what's happening.

 

How have I contradicted myself?  Yes, that is what I'm saying, and that is what's happening.

[Starlighthed211]

*crickets* This is exactly like when a buggy game comes out, everyone will be mad for about a week and then everyone forgets about it. While there is no solution.

[MikeCheck--]

21 minutes ago, Starlighthed211 said:

*crickets* This is exactly like when a buggy game comes out, everyone will be mad for about a week and then everyone forgets about it. While there is no solution.

 

There is only so much we, as the community can do. We can voice our opinion and "protest", but if the man in charge doesn't wish to change anything, then nothing will be changed. The only *true* thing we can do to be heard is to not visit the site, or use it. Then he would notice because it'd hit him in the wallet.

 

Hmm, the above statement reminds me of US government. A joke. 

[MonaSaxPayne]

24 minutes ago, MikeCheck-- said:

 

There is only so much we, as the community can do. We can voice our opinion and "protest", but if the man in charge doesn't wish to change anything, then nothing will be changed. The only *true* thing we can do to be heard is to not visit the site, or use it. Then he would notice because it'd hit him in the wallet.

 

how does that help the ppl who already paid for a lifetime subscription?

[MikeCheck--]

42 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

 

how does that help the ppl who already paid for a lifetime subscription?

 

Clicks are still noticeable, traffic is still noticeable. Also, when lifetime was purchased, there was nothing in the terms that said we would be guaranteed updates from Sly, or have some type of direct line of communication.