Suggestion: Allow hiding of spam games

[Beyondthegrave07]

Temporarily locking to clean up thread.

 

Yeeesh.

 

Edit: Reopened. Please stay on topic going forward.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Beyondthegrave07

[amurnin100]

I would be happy for an account to a rarity ranking / leaderboard rather than omit easy games from the actual leaderboard, this would show the “quality” of the account over quantity

[Elliot]

1 hour ago, HusKy said:

 

No, I think most people use it to discover new trophy lists being published. At least they used to.

Yep, this is what I used to use it for.

[AJ_Radio]

3 hours ago, ahmedelebiary said:

Going from Ratalaikas to Breakthrough arcade, The Animal X, and The Jumping Food /Turbo shows you how pathetic trophy hunting is nowadays.. really miss the PS3 days when a gold trophy was a platinum in itself. Now it's just getting ridiculous seeing people with more gold than bronze/ silver (or combined lol).

You can always tell that they’ll have more gold trophies and have a higher ranking on the leaderboards as opposed to others, despite having less trophies overall. 
 

I’m so glad I jumped off the gravy train back in 2017. I can’t imagine where I’d be now if I just kept going with easy platinums just because they easy.

[Caesar Clown]

1 hour ago, sephiroth4424 said:

From time to time i read ''Sony doesn't care about trophies, trophy hunters are a tiny % of playstation community etc''

 

I wonder why Sony allows these jumping trash on psn. They cost 1.49-2.99

 

Because Sony gets money from them. Whatever fee it costs to list on the store then they get a 30% cut of every sale, and it costs them nothing.

 

Money is all that matters. I suppose the simplest solution is to contact Sony and tell them you'll pay to keep those games off the store. You need to pay more than they earn though..

[AJ_Radio]

6 minutes ago, Caesar Clown said:

 

Because Sony gets money from them. Whatever fee it costs to list on the store then they get a 30% cut of every sale, and it costs them nothing.

 

Money is all that matters. I suppose the simplest solution is to contact Sony and tell them you'll pay to keep those games off the store. You need to pay more than they earn though..

We’re just plebs in a niche of gaming. Even with all of us we’d be lucky to even make a teardrop in Sony’s coffers, if that could even happen. 
 

We lost a long time ago. The best thing we can hope for is an actual filter, or some rarity leaderboard of sorts. 
 

@BlindMango back in 2019 even made a few suggestions regarding a leaderboard/accolades. That discussion completely went down in flames, and people just forgot about it. 

[Nebnit]

4 hours ago, Sikutai said:

I don't like rainy days and the guy next door is stupid too. I want a filter so I don't have to see the rain and the guy anymore.

 

Blocking out the things you don't like in life would make things easier, but that's just not life. Being an adult means being able to deal with such things.

 

I assume you don't even use ad blockers. Do they still have that end of season sale at Dolce & Gabbana?

[Banxiee]

2 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

...but I have to ask:

are people really using that part of this site as their way of finding out about new games? 

I don't know about others, but I'm from NZ and we have censorship laws (definitely not as strict as other countries but there are a few things missing - recently Hell Pie looked really good to me but wasn't approved for release in NZ/AU), and sometimes we don't have the same launch dates, so I use the PSNP new games list as a way to view new/upcoming games on a global level, that might not show up on my local store.

 

If I'm interested, that's when I look into international pricing, other ways of acquiring the game etc because otherwise I wouldn't be aware of them. I now make a point of opening the new games page and scrolling through because I admit I've missed several games I like the look of because of Jumping X stacks.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Banxiee

[LegendExeter]

5 hours ago, HusKy said:

I hear you people, but I'm not sure this can be done. For example, from the current front page, there are 5 shovelware "games" that don't have developer/publisher info available right now:

 

I would have counted 6, including the 4 minute platinum of "on Sunday".

 

This is what I dislike about this site, I don't even care so much about the leaderboards, its literally seeing all these shit games on the front page.  Right now there is 3 games of 10 that aren't shovelware, 4 since Sofiya is showing twice.  I wish the multi-region stacks were found underneath a single listing of the game, same with multiple platforms - with the default linking to the newest console.  

 

I think it makes the site look trashy the way it is, and yeah I am one of the people who use that list to see what new games are coming out.  

14 hours ago, steel6burgh said:

from many people's point of view including myself I feel like the jumping hot dog  games is doing exactly what you say "making up numbers you can feel better about".   I didn't get any platinums this weeks so i'll just pop in one of my 2 minute platinum titles and gain as much gamer score as one who spent all month playing a game with a 8/10 difficulty for 100 hours.  Basically you are just fabricating a gamer score from shit.  nobody suggested in this thread we don't count the games people are just asking that we could hide them so we don't have to see them.  the purpose of this site as well as this hobby was to go get achievements not cipher through a bunch of bullshit like the junk folder in my e-mail.   companies making this spam shovel ware crap are exploiting a hobby that people found fun and turning it into garbage.  There is no excuse for or defending it.  

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about, the perfect statement right here.  I feel like I'm using AOL 95 or something and I can't filter out the bullshit from my email.

[willmill97]

On a serious note, I looked at the 'New Trophy Lists' section to remind me when games I've been looking forward to were released. But since it's mostly always filled with spam-wank games now I never get to see the new lists I actually want to see show up. Same for discovering new actual indie games, can't see them anymore. Just filled with jumping fucking food items and animals with a sometimes unrelated letter after it. 

 

Sod the lot.

 

[Ashande]

2 hours ago, sephiroth4424 said:

From time to time i read ''Sony doesn't care about trophies, trophy hunters are a tiny % of playstation community etc''

 

I wonder why Sony allows these jumping trash on psn. They cost 1.49-2.99

 

1 hour ago, Caesar Clown said:

 

Because Sony gets money from them. Whatever fee it costs to list on the store then they get a 30% cut of every sale, and it costs them nothing.

 

Money is all that matters. I suppose the simplest solution is to contact Sony and tell them you'll pay to keep those games off the store. You need to pay more than they earn though..

 

It isn’t 100% about the money, though. It’s also about optics. If Sony were to say “enough! No mas!” and stop allowing “these titles,” it immediately leads into “who decides what ‘these kinds of titles’ means?” Then, regardless of if they go with Potter Stewart’s “I’ll know it when I see it” logic or actually create some form of guidelines, someone, somewhere will decide - and get very vocal - that the reason their game wasn’t allowed was due to something other than the game’s content (or lack thereof) and proceed to create a giant stink, drawing battle lines. I personally cast Gilson B. Pontes in this role when I picture this happening in my head, but your mileage may vary; the Lady in a Leotard With a Gun guy might also work. Because the internet is… well, the internet, it will inevitably turn into accusations of istaphobia, regardless of the actual situation or what rules and regulations the game did or didn’t break. Sony just doesn’t want the headache.

 

”But these games don’t show up on other platforms, and it isn’t happening to Microsoft or Nintendo or Valve!” I hear someone say. True. The difference is that they were never allowed on Xbox or Switch or Steam in the first place. Once the door is open, you’re liable to receive infinitely more backlash for closing it than you would for never having opened it at all. Sony made the problem for themselves by not having the gatekeepers in place to start with.

 

So far as the original topic of discussion, I guess it might be an interesting feature for some folks, but I feel like - assuming anything was going to happen in the first place - devoting time and effort to it seems like kind of a waste; so far as the “New Games” tab, if you’re that invested in knowing what trophy lists have been added, you can always just hit the “Games” tab and scroll past the garbage (which is pretty easily identifiable just from titles and icons most of the time); so far as on profiles, again, if you do a quick scroll through the profile, you’ll generally be able to tell what you’re dealing with. So far as providing an “updated” rank/score/whatever if you strip out the “trash,” that’s just data manipulation for no real purpose other than to get a result more palatable to certain people’s tastes (“sure, they may be ranked #900 in the world as is, but if I take out all the things I consider sub-par, then they’re only #269,420!”) and if, as suggested, the user looking can decide for themselves what constitutes “trash,” it’s all too easy to picture someone twiddling the numbers until they get a “funny” result or stripping even “legitimate” (whatever that means) trophies from their view for no reason other than to lower their perceived ranking… for an audience of precisely one. Just doesn’t seem to have any actual good uses. If you’re concerned about trophy “purity,” sorting by rarity or achievers will get you the info you want as things currently stand.

 

EDIT: One thing that might be a half-measure that resolves at least a portion of the stated problem without delving too far into the “not a real game” mire would be to not display stacks (either on the New Games page or the profiles.) Click the game, it’ll show the stacks, but otherwise it just lists it once. Would cut down on clutter without banishing them entirely to the hinterlands, and (on profiles) wouldn’t impact the real numbers but would make certain profiles easier to skim.

 

But that’s just my (adjusted for inflation) two cents.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Ashande
Added solution suggestion

[djb5f]

Speaking of combining multi-region or multi-platform versions of a title under one main entry, there should really only be one combined (shared) forum for a game.  It is a mess with a lot of duplicative info as it stands now.  See Fall Guys forums as an example.

[SakiSakiSakiSakiSaki]

22 minutes ago, djb5f said:

Speaking of combining multi-region or multi-platform versions of a title under one main entry, there should really only be one combined (shared) forum for a game.  It is a mess with a lot of duplicative info as it stands now.  See Fall Guys forums as an example.

Yea it’s insane how a game might look like nobody’s talking about it, when in reality all the discussions are attached to another regional entry. Or just having split discussions, sometimes the same topic unbeknownst to both posters. 
 

Going back to the original topic at hand, it’d would honestly make this site so much brighter if we could just erase all the garbage. I have my manual practical workarounds for sifting through the trash, but I’d pay to not have to do that lol. 

[LegendExeter]

28 minutes ago, djb5f said:

Speaking of combining multi-region or multi-platform versions of a title under one main entry, there should really only be one combined (shared) forum for a game.  It is a mess with a lot of duplicative info as it stands now.  See Fall Guys forums as an example.

 

I agree with this completely.

 

I left work one day after looking at one of the forums for a game I was playing, literally came back to the site on my phone and could not find the thread...pretty popular game like God of War with pages and multi-platforms; I legit had to go to google and search it to find it on this site.

 

As far as the "possible" different trophy lists, I think gamers can be smart enough to figure that out in a forum, or a start a post with EU: Question about Collectables? so we know what version they are talking about.  It's about condensing the information and keeping it all in the same area, rather than have 3 to 5 different forums for each region and console.

 

I actually once made a thread in the European forum of a game, because more EU players played the game then NA players, and I wanted to increase my chance for a response.

Edited August 5, 2022 by LegendExeter

[Beyondthegrave07]

27 minutes ago, Ashande said:

 

 

It isn’t 100% about the money, though. It’s also about optics. If Sony were to say “enough! No mas!” and stop allowing “these titles,” it immediately leads into “who decides what ‘these kinds of titles’ means?” Then, regardless of if they go with Potter Stewart’s “I’ll know it when I see it” logic or actually create some form of guidelines, someone, somewhere will decide - and get very vocal - that the reason their game wasn’t allowed was due to something other than the game’s content (or lack thereof) and proceed to create a giant stink, drawing battle lines. I personally cast Gilson B. Pontes in this role when I picture this happening in my head, but your mileage may vary; the Lady in a Leotard With a Gun guy might also work. Because the internet is… well, the internet, it will inevitably turn into accusations of istaphobia, regardless of the actual situation or what rules and regulations the game did or didn’t break. Sony just doesn’t want the headache.

 

”But these games don’t show up on other platforms, and it isn’t happening to Microsoft or Nintendo or Valve!” I hear someone say. True. The difference is that they were never allowed on Xbox or Switch or Steam in the first place. Once the door is open, you’re liable to receive infinitely more backlash for closing it than you would for never having opened it at all. Sony made the problem for themselves by not having the gatekeepers in place to start with.

 

So far as the original topic of discussion, I guess it might be an interesting feature for some folks, but I feel like - assuming anything was going to happen in the first place - devoting time and effort to it seems like kind of a waste; so far as the “New Games” tab, if you’re that invested in knowing what trophy lists have been added, you can always just hit the “Games” tab and scroll past the garbage (which is pretty easily identifiable just from titles and icons most of the time); so far as on profiles, again, if you do a quick scroll through the profile, you’ll generally be able to tell what you’re dealing with. So far as providing an “updated” rank/score/whatever if you strip out the “trash,” that’s just data manipulation for no real purpose other than to get a result more palatable to certain people’s tastes (“sure, they may be ranked #900 in the world as is, but if I take out all the things I consider sub-par, then they’re only #269,420!”) and if, as suggested, the user looking can decide for themselves what constitutes “trash,” it’s all too easy to picture someone twiddling the numbers until they get a “funny” result or stripping even “legitimate” (whatever that means) trophies from their view for no reason other than to lower their perceived ranking… for an audience of precisely one. Just doesn’t seem to have any actual good uses. If you’re concerned about trophy “purity,” sorting by rarity or achievers will get you the info you want as things currently stand.

 

EDIT: One thing that might be a half-measure that resolves at least a portion of the stated problem without delving too far into the “not a real game” mire would be to not display stacks (either on the New Games page or the profiles.) Click the game, it’ll show the stacks, but otherwise it just lists it once. Would cut down on clutter without banishing them entirely to the hinterlands, and (on profiles) wouldn’t impact the real numbers but would make certain profiles easier to skim.

 

But that’s just my (adjusted for inflation) two cents.

Sony could make stipulations though on what deserves a platinum trophy and when regional stacking is allowed. Even if they are too far in to close the flood gates and tell them "no" to publishing on PSN. They can still add standards to prevent spam lists.

 

OT: As someone who has to deal with the game information side of things, I think it would be nice to see these lists combine into one on the main page after we link stacks together. It would definitely help with the clutter.

 

Not sure how feasible it would be to filter these games from the front page completely without someone doing it manually. The problem is, how will the system be able to tell if it's a spam game when it comes in with 0 owners and no metadata to base it off of?

 

I think a filter on someone's profile and the readjusting would be a little more feasible, but I would guess this would take a lot of time to code and probably a lot of time for the system to adjust a profile once someone has 1,000 of these things on there...

[SakiSakiSakiSakiSaki]

4 minutes ago, Beyondthegrave07 said:

Not sure how feasible it would be to filter these games from the front page completely without someone doing it manually. The problem is, how will the system be able to tell if it's a spam game when it comes in with 0 owners and no metadata to base it off of?

 

I think a filter on someone's profile and the readjusting would be a little more feasible, but I would guess this would take a lot of time to code and probably a lot of time for the system to adjust a profile once someone has 1,000 of these things on there...

I don’t think people are asking for an automatic filter, but a client-side block list. Like how blocking works on social media sites. 
 

I definitely don’t wanna give the mods another job to do, that is adding a badge of smelly-poo poo on shovelware games. Which is why some of us were asking Husky if he could implement a user side, opt-in, publisher/developer block option. Make people curate their own homepages to their own tastes. 
 

I also expanded on the idea by suggesting an individual game/entry block feature alongside the publisher/developer one.  

 

[ZitMeatloaf]

1 hour ago, AJ_Radio said:

You can always tell that they’ll have more gold trophies and have a higher ranking on the leaderboards as opposed to others, despite having less trophies overall.

Shovelware games that dole out gold trophies like Halloween candy definitely make this a problem. Which then causes a corresponding, collateral damage problem of stigmatizing other games that have lots of gold trophies, even if those games aren't shovelware.

 

Games like Wytchwood, A Short Hike, and Return of the Obra Dinn are quality indie titles that just happen to have more gold trophies than silver or bronze. It would be a shame for prospective players unfamiliar with these games to dismiss them as crap based solely on their trophy lists.

[AJ_Radio]

1 hour ago, LegendExeter said:

This is exactly what I'm talking about, the perfect statement right here.  I feel like I'm using AOL 95 or something and I can't filter out the bullshit from my email.

 

Not a great comparison because the old internet was basically more like an experimentation. Think old N64 and PS1 platforming games before developers figured out how to fine tune the gaming mechanics. Everybody's internet was slow and cumbersome back then, plus the internet as a whole was a brand new concept for the time.

 

This on the other hand is completely intentional, and Sony couldn't care less in the end because at the end of the day these shovelware titles still generate money for them. PSN is basically another Steam now, which is a far cry from the PS3, early PS4 generations when actual new titles got released regularly and Sony promoted them on the PS Store.

 

32 minutes ago, ZitMeatloaf said:

Shovelware games that dole out gold trophies like Halloween candy definitely make this a problem. Which then causes a corresponding, collateral damage problem of stigmatizing other games that have lots of gold trophies, even if those games aren't shovelware.

 

Games like Wytchwood, A Short Hike, and Return of the Obra Dinn are quality indie titles that just happen to have more gold trophies than silver or bronze. It would be a shame for prospective players unfamiliar with these games to dismiss them as crap based solely on their trophy lists.

 

I don't think I'm generalizing here because every single shovelware/EZPZ game is like this. There are actual good games like The Witness that have mostly gold trophies, and they don't take away from the gameplay or the experience of its puzzles.

 

Axiom Verge 1 & 2 both have equal amount of gold trophies, which is eight, no silver trophies, and the rest bronze trophies. Axiom Verge 1 is probably one of my favorite indie titles.

 

AAA games will still release with full, complete trophy lists, which I'm perfectly happy with. It's the constant overflow of stacks that contain five minute platinums that I find annoying.

 

This isn't about being interested in a game and buying it because you like the genre it's in. This is literally buying up the latest games the minute they get on the store just so a select few can retain their place on the PSNP leaderboards.

 

At this point in time these guys have it down to a science. There's no reason for me to bother with the leaderboards at all when it's like this, especially when everybody just plays the same games over and over just because they're quick and easy.

Edited August 5, 2022 by AJ_Radio
because shovelware is nonsense

[sepheroithisgod]

1 hour ago, Ashande said:

 

 

It isn’t 100% about the money, though. It’s also about optics. If Sony were to say “enough! No mas!” and stop allowing “these titles,” it immediately leads into “who decides what ‘these kinds of titles’ means?” Then, regardless of if they go with Potter Stewart’s “I’ll know it when I see it” logic or actually create some form of guidelines, someone, somewhere will decide - and get very vocal - that the reason their game wasn’t allowed was due to something other than the game’s content (or lack thereof) and proceed to create a giant stink, drawing battle lines. I personally cast Gilson B. Pontes in this role when I picture this happening in my head, but your mileage may vary; the Lady in a Leotard With a Gun guy might also work. Because the internet is… well, the internet, it will inevitably turn into accusations of istaphobia, regardless of the actual situation or what rules and regulations the game did or didn’t break. Sony just doesn’t want the headache.

 

”But these games don’t show up on other platforms, and it isn’t happening to Microsoft or Nintendo or Valve!” I hear someone say. True. The difference is that they were never allowed on Xbox or Switch or Steam in the first place. Once the door is open, you’re liable to receive infinitely more backlash for closing it than you would for never having opened it at all. Sony made the problem for themselves by not having the gatekeepers in place to start with.

 

So far as the original topic of discussion, I guess it might be an interesting feature for some folks, but I feel like - assuming anything was going to happen in the first place - devoting time and effort to it seems like kind of a waste; so far as the “New Games” tab, if you’re that invested in knowing what trophy lists have been added, you can always just hit the “Games” tab and scroll past the garbage (which is pretty easily identifiable just from titles and icons most of the time); so far as on profiles, again, if you do a quick scroll through the profile, you’ll generally be able to tell what you’re dealing with. So far as providing an “updated” rank/score/whatever if you strip out the “trash,” that’s just data manipulation for no real purpose other than to get a result more palatable to certain people’s tastes (“sure, they may be ranked #900 in the world as is, but if I take out all the things I consider sub-par, then they’re only #269,420!”) and if, as suggested, the user looking can decide for themselves what constitutes “trash,” it’s all too easy to picture someone twiddling the numbers until they get a “funny” result or stripping even “legitimate” (whatever that means) trophies from their view for no reason other than to lower their perceived ranking… for an audience of precisely one. Just doesn’t seem to have any actual good uses. If you’re concerned about trophy “purity,” sorting by rarity or achievers will get you the info you want as things currently stand.

 

EDIT: One thing that might be a half-measure that resolves at least a portion of the stated problem without delving too far into the “not a real game” mire would be to not display stacks (either on the New Games page or the profiles.) Click the game, it’ll show the stacks, but otherwise it just lists it once. Would cut down on clutter without banishing them entirely to the hinterlands, and (on profiles) wouldn’t impact the real numbers but would make certain profiles easier to skim.

 

But that’s just my (adjusted for inflation) two cents.

I don't think the issue is that these games exist, it's that the games receive platinum trophies. If these lists were just your basic 12 bronze trophies, I guarantee you they would not be profitable as most trophy enthusiasts would not care about them.

 

Sony doesn't need to block any games from entering its platform, they simply need to implement stronger guidelines for what games get a platinum trophy and which do not. Obviously, these games could adapt, but it's really always been an issue on PSN that some games don't get a platinum trophy while these shovelware titles do. Heck, even back in the PS3 days, there were plenty of games that didn't have a plat that should have.

 

It's an issue they have never addressed, and now it's gotten out of control.

Edited August 5, 2022 by sepheroithisgod

[Ashande]

50 minutes ago, Beyondthegrave07 said:

Sony could make stipulations though on what deserves a platinum trophy and when regional stacking is allowed. Even if they are too far in to close the flood gates and tell them "no" to publishing on PSN. They can still add standards to prevent spam lists.

 

6 minutes ago, sepheroithisgod said:

I don't think the issue is that these games exist, it's that the games receive platinum trophies. If these lists were just your basic 12 bronze trophies, I guarantee you they would not be profitable as most trophy enthusiasts would not care about them.

 

Sony doesn't need to block any games from entering its platform, they simply need to implement stronger guidelines for what games get a platinum trophy and which do not. Obviously, these games could adapt, but it's really always been an issue on PSN that some games don't get a platinum trophy while these shovelware titles do. Heck, even back in the PS3 days, there were plenty of games that didn't have a plat that should have.

 

 

I don’t disagree with the idea that standards for issuing a Platinum could stand better regulation and/or enforcement. That’s probably the only realistic way out, and would potentially solve the issue (if there’s no free Plat, less people buy it; if less people buy it, the developers make less money; if they make less money, maybe they throw in the towel), though if there’s any money to be made - and some people will still do it to boost completion percentage and total number of trophies, with or without a Platinum - it’s liable to linger on, if in a reduced form.

 

That being said, as a rule most people seem to advocate for the eradication of this sort of game rather than reform, and frequently seem to phrase it as “Sony needs to stop allowing these games on the store” and “Sony makes money off this so doesn’t care.” My post was merely to counter those arguments.

[Bumperklever]

Best suggestion I saw in this threat was a client side block list for publisher.

 

Given at the start the list will still show up, but when the game information team added the tags, they are gone.

 

Of course this site doesnt like updating anyway. So everything said here is a lost cause anyway.

[BlindMango]

I agree with this 100%, I brought up the idea weeks ago to Sly to be able to filter out these "games" by default from the new games page and homepage so that we're able to see actual new games again like the page used to be helpful for, I would be absolutely happy to individually tag all of these games manually to be able to clean up the new games page

[LegendExeter]

2 minutes ago, BlindMango said:

I agree with this 100%, I brought up the idea weeks ago to Sly to be able to filter out these "games" by default from the new games page and homepage so that we're able to see actual new games again like the page used to be helpful for, I would be absolutely happy to individually tag all of these games manually to be able to clean up the new games page

 

Do we need to put you on the payroll then?  lol

 

Because it would make the front page look so much better.  Filter by developer might help or if we could just block, who knows.

[SakiSakiSakiSakiSaki]

3 minutes ago, BlindMango said:

I brought up the idea weeks ago to Sly

What was his response?

[BlindMango]

Just now, SakiSakiSakiSakiSaki said:

What was his response?

 

Nothing really yet on it, will check again