The Last of Us - HBOMax

[LastMinuteSavior]

19 minutes ago, He1senzerg said:

If they would have done this show 7-10 years ago, I think Ellen Page would have been a good choice.

 

10 years ago Elliot Page was around 26 yo. And even if ND did initially rip off their likeness, their usual on-screen personna doesn't totally match Ellie's personality. Great indy performer (Hard Candy, Juno) not so much in mainstream stuff (X-Men, Inception) and I think they would lack the right energy for certain key moments in TLoU.

 

I think everyone keeps forgetting what Ellie will go through soon...

 

 

...and not every young actress would be able to portray who Ellie becomes after meeting David.

 

I think Bella might be the right one to pull it off and to be a great Ellie in Part 2.

 

[The Alchemist]

51 minutes ago, Stan Lee said:

 

I don't know how anyone can say she's a bad choice. 

 

Yeah I really don't get the hate for Bella and the reasoning I keep seeing from people is pretty lame too. "She looks nothing like her"... How is that in any way important? "Her acting is pretty awful"?... Give me a break ? 

 

I think she's done a fantastic job at portraying Ellie. It was always going to be a somewhat different take on the character, but I feel like she's nailed the 'essence' of Ellie and has put her own unique touch on the character too. People expecting the exact version of Ellie from the game in a live adaptation is ridiculous, as is most of the reasons I keep seeing from people for why Bella is supposedly "so bad" in the role. 

 

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As for the episode itself... I thought it was good, but nothing outstanding, certainly not when compared to the previous episode. I liked it, it served a purpose, but it's probably the weakest episode so far for me. But every episode doesn't need to be an impactful, emotional rollercoaster and after so much loss already in the first 3 episodes and knowing what lies ahead, it was nice to get a somewhat slow-paced episode this week. If I had one doubt from the episode it's Kathleen. Melanie Lynskey is so soft-spoken and I find it difficult buying into her as the hardened leader type who kills without hesitation. I am interested in seeing more of her though. The highlight of the episode was watching Joel and Ellie bonding, especially when they both started cracking up over the joke, it was so heart-warming. Speaking of which... No Pun Intended! Great to see it in the show. And presumably we'll be seeing a bloater soon enough, so I'm excited for that. 

[Conor]

19 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

If I had one doubt from the episode it's Kathleen. Melanie Lynskey is so soft-spoken and I find it difficult buying into her as the hardened leader type who kills without hesitation. I am interested in seeing more of her though.

 

I love Melanie Lynsky and I agree with this so far -though sometimes the soft spoken can make their actions more ice-cold, like when she

Spoiler

just went back and shot the doctor

- but there is clearly more than meets the eye with this character and her relationship with Perry (original Tommy, love that they're casting some actual game actors in the show!) that could show how she is a convincing and effective leader. 

[mega-tallica]

1 hour ago, Stan Lee said:

 

I don't know how anyone can say she's a bad choice. Looks don't matter- neither Pedro Pascal nor Anna Torv look anything like Joel and Tess yet nobody complains now- and her acting is not bad in the slightest; not liking how she's portraying Ellie (very close to the game though so that would be odd) is one thing but her acting is still good and convincing.

 

Kaitlyn Dever is a boring fan-casty choice on par with Hugh Jackman as Joel because it was going around since she was in Uncharted 4 in 2016. A good actress but nowadays she's too old to convincingly play a 14 year old anymore.

 

I like how you say looks don't matter and then turn around and say Dever wouldn't have worked because "she's too old". It certainly sounds like it does matter. 

 

Age is irrelevant if you still look like a teenager and Dever still looks like a teenager despite her age. She notoriously plays characters that are younger than her so she definitely would've worked easily especially when we get to Part 2 and Ellie is a few years older. Plus, she has a much stronger body of work behind her and has more experience and is clearly the better actress. 

 

Nobody is complaining about Pedro or Anna because their actors are actually good and are playing their roles well. Regardless, they do have quite a bit resemblance to their video game counterparts anyway, I wouldn't say they look nothing alike whereas with Bella as Ellie? They look nothing alike besides the similar outfits really and pretty much everybody agrees on that. 

 

She's not a bad actress but her inexperience is showing especially in the non-dialogue scenes where it's up to her facial expressions to tell the story and what her character is thinking and going through. That scene early in Episode 4 when she's in the bathroom looking in the mirror was pretty bad. She portrays nothing in those expressions and doesn't translate on screen to captivating acting work. Her character is supposed to be expressing apprehension and nervousness about the situation and having to survive in these conditions but yet her expression was almost like she's enjoying herself while holding the gun or knife or whatever she was holding up to the mirror. If I didn't know how Ellie's character is from the games, I'd be pretty confused about her character portrayed by Bella because she's misguiding it a bit in these scenes. 

 

When she's reciting the same dialogue as Ellie in the games and copying that, that's when she's at her best with the character, that's when she's the most captivating and convincing. I'm not looking for a 1:1 recreation of the games nor was that possible in the different medium but that doesn't mean I can't question the casting choice here when there's obvious better choices out there. 

 

Let's pretend for a second this show hasn't been made yet and we don't know the casting; would Bella Ramsey be in anybody's top 10 choice to play Ellie? Almost surely not. I doubt anybody had her in mind but yet that's who we got and nobody is supposed to show any disappointment in this choice or question it? 

 

It'd be a different story if she was doing exceptional work as the character but she's really not unless you like a static, watered down Ellie which is what she's delivered thus far. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by mega-tallica

[LastMinuteSavior]

15 minutes ago, mega-tallica said:

Age is irrelevant if you still look like a teenager and Dever still looks like a teenager despite her age.

 

I literally just laughed while imagining 26yo Kaitlyn Dever trying to pass as a 13yo.

 

[mega-tallica]

47 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

 

Yeah I really don't get the hate for Bella and the reasoning I keep seeing from people is pretty lame too. "She looks nothing like her"... How is that in any way important? "Her acting is pretty awful"?... Give me a break  

 

I think she's done a fantastic job at portraying Ellie. It was always going to be a somewhat different take on the character, but I feel like she's nailed the 'essence' of Ellie and has put her own unique touch on the character too. People expecting the exact version of Ellie from the game in a live adaptation is ridiculous, as is most of the reasons I keep seeing from people for why Bella is supposedly "so bad" in the role. 

 

Nobody said anything about wanting an exact version of Ellie from the game in the show and nor should that be treated as a totally unrealistic and ridiculous expectation to have. The whole reason anybody is caring about this show is because of the games, it matters greatly how much of the games' 'essence' is translated into the show, you can't just write that off entirely like it shouldn't matter and people are just being ignorant in not accepting this different portrayal of an already established character. It's not the interpretation of the character people have a problem with, it's the actress portraying this character. 

 

If any portrayal of these beloved video game characters is off, it's going to be noticed. People criticized the casting of Pedro as Joel initially but now that the show is out and they've seen his portrayal and how good it is, that criticism has now almost entirely died off. Same with Bella as Ellie initially except her criticism hasn't died off and there's more legitimate reasons for that besides the fact she doesn't look like Ellie or is an 'exact version' of Ellie. Really poor, cop out way to dismiss why people aren't liking her tbh. 

24 minutes ago, LastMinuteSavior said:

 

I literally just laughed while imagining 26yo Kaitlyn Dever trying to pass as a 13yo.

 

 

You couldn't tell she's 26 by looking at her. 

 

That's why it's called acting. People have played roles 10+ years younger than their actual age on film and pulled it off before, not like it couldn't be done again. 

[the1andonly654]

40 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

If I had one doubt from the episode it's Kathleen. Melanie Lynskey is so soft-spoken and I find it difficult buying into her as the hardened leader type who kills without hesitation. I am interested in seeing more of her though. The highlight of the episode was watching Joel and Ellie bonding, especially when they both started cracking up over the joke, it was so heart-warming. Speaking of which... No Pun Intended! Great to see it in the show. And presumably we'll be seeing a bloater soon enough, so I'm excited for that. 

Kathleen was OK to me. Not everyone has to look or sound badass in order to fit into some archetype. She didn't bother me and I actually liked her, she was shown in such a way that you don't really know which version of her is true. The hesitating, almost crying one or the one that kills a man in cold blood. 

 

I did not like the whole segment though, with their settlement, my first thought - I'm watching The Walking Dead. They created the whole thing which is about Henry's backstory obviously but I think the way Henry's and Sam's story in the game was written was kind of perfect. They don't need a backstory, it was about their meeting, that evening together talking about motorcycles and the morning after, showing us how quickly things can get out of control in that world. 

 

I really, really like the show, the scene with Joel and Ellie cracking up to the joke was amazing. In the game, Joel's attitude towards Ellie changes slowly, gradually while you play, but leaps forward during the "season change" fade to black moments. This scene in the show feels like something that's hapenned during those fades to black. 

 

Now that I think of it, they did themselves some disservice by trying to really be faithful to the game. When they can be, they're faithful to the point that every deviation is interesting, but every new creation with existing characters is... Not off putting maybe, but weird and worse in one way or another. If I didn't play the game, I probably would've had a different opinion on the newly introduced material. 

[TheBusToYoker]

What I want to do to the person who negotiates HBOs international rights.

 

[LastMinuteSavior]

32 minutes ago, mega-tallica said:

You couldn't tell she's 26 by looking at her. 

 

That's why it's called acting. People have played roles 10+ years younger than their actual age on film and pulled it off before, not like it couldn't be done again. 

 

Sure, she looks young, but not 13 years young.

 

 

It's not like I think she couldn't be in a shortlist to play the character. But that ship as sailed years ago.

 

[The Alchemist]

59 minutes ago, mega-tallica said:

 

The whole reason anybody is caring about this show is because of the games...

 

Obviously there are plenty of fans of the game(s) watching the show, but I'm willing to bet there's just as many (if not more) people who have never picked up a controller before in their lives who also tune into it every week. So your above assertion isn't entirely true. Further, the 'essence' of the game is very much ingrained in the show, nobody as far as I can tell is writing off anything because there is nothing to write off. Not sure what point you were trying to make there ?

 

59 minutes ago, mega-tallica said:

 

It's not the interpretation of the character people have a problem with, it's the actress portraying this character.

 

It's the problem YOU have, as you've made clear more than once already. Plenty of people in this very thread, myself included, have no issue with the actress and think she's doing a great job ?‍♂️ 

 

59 minutes ago, mega-tallica said:

 

Really poor, cop out way to dismiss why people aren't liking her tbh. 

 

I think disliking an actress in a role because "she looks nothing like" the character she's portraying is a far bigger cop out than anything I said, but that's just me. Unless you want to further elaborate on why you think her acting has been "pretty awful" and why she isn't "captivating" enough for you in the role? Other than that, I think we're done here ?‍♂️ 

 

52 minutes ago, the1andonly654 said:

 

Kathleen was OK to me. Not everyone has to look or sound badass in order to fit into some archetype. 

 

Yeah I get that point and it's fair. And we don't know how she came to lead either so it's unfair to judge her character too harshly just yet. I didn't dislike her though and I did mention I was interested in seeing more of her. I guess I'm just so used to seeing/hearing her as Rose in Two and a Half Men and it was kinda trippy seeing her as this character in the moment lol. But as mentioned above, sometimes the soft-spoken and quieter/calmer type can be more impactful and unsettling in certain situations. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by The Alchemist

[mega-tallica]

2 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

I think disliking an actress in a role because "she looks nothing like" the character she's portraying is a far bigger cop out than anything I said, but that's just me. Unless you want to further elaborate on why you think her acting has been "pretty awful" and why she isn't "captivating" enough for you in the role? Other than that, I think we're done here ?‍♂️ 

 

Because that's far from the only reason and explanation I gave, that's just the one you're choosing to pinpoint on to dismiss everything else I'm saying. 

 

I wrote practically a short story elaborating why between all my posts about this, I really don't think I need to elaborate more and not like it would do any good anyway as I can recognize a stalemate when I see so you're right, we are done here. 

[LastMinuteSavior]

I'm curious to see Storm Reid as Riley. That A Wrinkle in Time huge flop she was in probably wasn't great for her career, but I've seen her in The Invisible Man and The Suicide Squad and she was pretty good in both. Also she got great reviews for her work in Missing.

 

Also thinking...

 

❗Potential spoiler ahead...

 

...if Ashley Johnson is indeed playing Ellie's mom, there's a good chance we'll get a flashback scene of her and Merle Dandridge together, right? That would be kinda cool.

 

[mega-tallica]

28 minutes ago, LastMinuteSavior said:

 

Sure, she looks young, but not 13 years young.

 

 

It's not like I think she couldn't be in a shortlist to play the character. But that ship as sailed years ago.

 

 

30 year old's have played teenagers in the past before, it's really not that far-fetched. 

 

Bella is 19 years old playing a 13 year old, I don't really think age makes a difference as long as you're capable of looking the age you need to play, that's the more important thing than actual age.

[Play3GianniGreed]

2 hours ago, mega-tallica said:

That scene early in Episode 4 when she's in the bathroom looking in the mirror was pretty bad. She portrays nothing in those expressions and doesn't translate on screen to captivating acting work. Her character is supposed to be expressing apprehension and nervousness about the situation and having to survive in these conditions but yet her expression was almost like she's enjoying herself while holding the gun or knife or whatever she was holding up to the mirror. 

 

But that was exactly what she was doing. She was enjoying having a gun. 

If that is what you got from that scene, she has done a good job. 

[mega-tallica]

13 hours ago, Play3GianniGreed said:

 

But that was exactly what she was doing. She was enjoying having a gun. 

If that is what you got from that scene, she has done a good job. 

 

It doesn't make any sense for her character to have that reaction in that instance. It's like she's already Part 2 Ellie, not Part 1 Ellie and she keeps flip-flopping back and forth. 

 

And they're making the same mistake they made in the games where Part 1 pretends Ellie's never used a gun before and killed somebody when the prequel Left Behind has her using guns and killing people. That's a pretty big plot error unless they just remove all those scenes in the Left Behind episode as a crude way to rectify it which is probably what they will end up doing. 

[LastMinuteSavior]

"It's-a me..."

 

 

Hard to believe SNL actually made something creative and fun.

 

Luigi's Mansion as Bill's Town... perfetto?

 

[djb5f]

26 minutes ago, LastMinuteSavior said:

"It's-a me..."

 

 

Hard to believe SNL actually made something creative and fun.

 

Luigi's Mansion as Bill's Town... perfetto?

 

Yeah that was pretty funny.  Pedro Pascal is badass in everything he does.  The Yoshi/Toad comments made me chuckle.

 

Loving the series, going by too quickly though!  

[LastMinuteSavior]

6 minutes ago, djb5f said:

Pedro Pascal is badass in everything he does.

 

 

No doubt ?

 

[mega-tallica]

Now that was a good episode, the return of the infected on screen after a far too long 2.5 episode complete absence. Bringing some balance back to this show finally and reestablish the fact the bigger threat are the infected and not the humans. 

 

Kathleen was a terrible character but Henry and Sam were fantastic and brilliantly handled. Even the creative decision to have Sam be deaf added a lot of depth to his interactions especially with Ellie. Seeing Ellie grow as a character from these interactions is what I wanted to see with her and Bill that we never got. And even though you already knew the fate of Henry and Sam, it was still a massive gut punch to see it happen again. An even bigger gut punch than in the game really as you now know so much more about their characters in the show.  

 

And the bloater debut to cap it off really sealed the deal. This was the best episode yet next to Episode 2. 

[The Alchemist]

I think episode 3 is still the best and I honestly don't think it will be topped (at least not this season), but episode 5 is probably my favourite so far. Amazing episode again from beginning to end, which is something I've been saying every week now but it's true lol. I think Sam and Henry's fate has always hit me the hardest out of all the deaths in the first game and it was just as painful to watch here, even though you knew it was coming it didn't make it any easier.

 

I thought Bella Ramsey was a standout and deserves a lot of credit. Her performance and the nuance and emotion that she brought in this episode in particular was outstanding. I've been a fan of her portrayal as Ellie from the start and I've mentioned before how I think it's only getting better and better, but she was just really great here. You can say what you will and dislike her portrayal if you want, but do not disrespect this girls acting ability, because she can act her ass off just as well as anyone else in the show.

 

The infected horde scene was great, especially the bloater. I have to say, the infected definitely appear to be much more of a threat in the show, which I do like. In the games you can stealth your way through large portions, but clearly that isn't an option for the most part in the show, mainly because it wouldn't be very fun to watch lol, so it's almost like they decided instead to make the infected even more terrifying by making them far more agile and aggressive. I thought the way the bloater dispatched Perry was quite amusing too, because it was almost like an exact death animation from the game. 

[the1andonly654]

They've nailed the bloater - a video game boss like monster translated into a live action show without it looking awkward, out of place of just plain dumb. For some reason it's a big thing for me, another aspect they got right. 

 

Great episode overall, for the first ten minutes I was afraid the whole episode was gonna be a Henry/Sam thing but thankfully it wasn't. I'm on the fence with making Sam deaf though. We lack the gameplay obviously, there's no "Ellie picks up the toy for Sam when the player is not looking" thing (loved that detail in the game btw), so Sam's deafness kinda makes up for that, we see Ellie going out of her way to interact with him and is actually enjoying it. But while Bill and Frank's story was an extension of what was briefly mentioned in the game, Sam's issue is just this out of the blue, completely new thing. It feels a bit like they just wanted someone with a disability in the show to be honest and while I might be wrong and biased, since I'm allergic to this kind of stuff, I do feel like they could've found a different way to make Sam and Ellie bond - adding a disability feels like they've just brute forced it to me. 

 

One thing I absolutely love about the show and it is very clear in this episode - it's very faithful to the source material but it finds its ways to surprise you. They mix and match locations, dialogue and characters so that even if you know generally what's gonna happen, you're not sure how or where. We have a Bill's Town Bloater in what was originally a purely gameplay sequence, we see Henry and Sam's fate in the same but also a bit different way. And whatever they add, it feels like it could've been a part of the original TLOU, Ellie's lines especially. We have 5 episodes left. If I'd have to guess, one is going to be at Tommy's dam with Ellie running away, one for David, one for Left Behind, another one about how they finally get to the fireflies and the last one, with the doctor. I'm pretty sure at least most of these events are gonna be on the show and despite knowing that and knowing what will happen I'm wondering how it will happen. Making such a faithful adaptation and still being able to, in some way, surprise people who know the game - its the perfect compromise. 

 

PS. Kathleen is great. I low key want a spin off based around her character. 

Edited February 12, 2023 by the1andonly654

[LastMinuteSavior]

I'm more glad than ever they subverted expectations in Bill's episode. This episode was a lot more suspenseful by having me questioning if Sam and Henry were also getting a different end to their story.

 

Really smart writing showing Ellie trying to use her blood to save someone. Adds to the whole dilemma of the sacrificial lamb and how Joel and Ellie might have opposite opinions.

 

Loved Ellie's reaction of horror near the end. Raw, real and a pretty unique acting choice.

 

Great episode.

 

[ArmoredSnowman]

On 1/30/2023 at 7:55 PM, Stan Lee said:

Why am I, a 31 year old straight man, lying in bed despairing at how I’ll never have the love in my life that two fictional older gay men had? 

Don't worry, that makes two of us. ?

[JungleCat20]

I was able to watch the episode last night and thought it was really good. I'm still liking the show overall so far. ? 

[mega-tallica]

12 hours ago, the1andonly654 said:

Great episode overall, for the first ten minutes I was afraid the whole episode was gonna be a Henry/Sam thing but thankfully it wasn't. I'm on the fence with making Sam deaf though. We lack the gameplay obviously, there's no "Ellie picks up the toy for Sam when the player is not looking" thing (loved that detail in the game btw), so Sam's deafness kinda makes up for that, we see Ellie going out of her way to interact with him and is actually enjoying it. But while Bill and Frank's story was an extension of what was briefly mentioned in the game, Sam's issue is just this out of the blue, completely new thing. It feels a bit like they just wanted someone with a disability in the show to be honest and while I might be wrong and biased, since I'm allergic to this kind of stuff, I do feel like they could've found a different way to make Sam and Ellie bond - adding a disability feels like they've just brute forced it to me. 

 

Regarding the decision to have Sam be deaf, I read that the reason for that is they wanted to create more unspoken scenes with no dialogue as that creates a more 'powerful' scene or whatever artsy reason they gave for it. 

 

I don't think you literally have to make a character deaf to do those kinds of scenes and it does very much feel like it's another box being checked. They now had a disabled person in the show, check. But I think it worked out just fine in the end anyway and Sam served the purpose he was supposed to serve. Bit of a brute forced deviation but at least it was well done. I'd say even better than the game version of Sam just because of all the extra backstory, made the character so much more impactful even though he couldn't speak.