This shovelware spam is making trophy hunting less fun

[HusKy]

2 hours ago, Pots3k said:

Oh! This psnp+ thing is entirely new to me, I saw someone reference it earlier but I thought they were just joking. 

 

It's not a joke. It's real and it's pretty cool. 10/10 I can recommend.

[You]

1 minute ago, DrBloodmoney said:

I'm wary of continuing to debate here, as it feels a little hollow, since this thread will be locked shortly

 

I wouldn't worry mate, because we'll all be back here tomorrow (or later on today) in another thread. Spoil yourself! lol

 

It's always nice to read what you have to say, definitely not hollow.

 

[steel6burgh]

5 minutes ago, Ashande said:

 

As @DrBloodmoney pointed out (and as I referenced in my initial post pointing out the issues with a rarity-based leaderboard), that’s going to sweep plenty of legitimate games (or at least a chunk of their trophies) into the trash, too. My opinion is that doing such is not an improvement. Yours may be different.

Well when you think about it there really aren't many worthy trophies above 75%.  Even in good games these trophies above 75% are for stupid stuff like completing the tutorial.  Or buying your 1st perk. or finding your 1st collectible.  Keep in mind it would be the same for everyone.  It wouldn't take trophies away form you it just wouldn't award you gamer score for them.  Or we could just keep the fucked up system where we award people 1350 gamer score for holding down the x button 3 minutes or, 1 minute for the turbo version, while someone else sweats their ass off 100 hours completing super Meat boy for the same score.  Would that make you happier????

6 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

I share some of them, but I just don't think anything is solved by rarity boards.

Hey if you can come to a better idea how to eliminate the breaking and jumping games I'm up for anything.

[willmill97]

If it was up to me, I would just remove all the games from the store and delete all these 'trophies' from everyone's lists... ....everyone can dream, right?

[Kulzyc]

Just let it go guys.. we've been fighting over this for the past 5 years, it's getting redundant. Nothings gonna change.

[Nelson_]

Still blaming Sony California for it.

[DrBloodmoney]

5 minutes ago, steel6burgh said:

Hey if you can come to a better idea how to eliminate the breaking and jumping games I'm up for anything.

 

Ignoring them works for me 

 

 

 

 

BTW - not for nothing -( I don't get hot under the collar about this issue, and while I respect your opinion generally, I don't agree with it on this issues and that's okay, reasonable adults can disagree on stuff) - and I know you have no real reason to take what I say seriously, but for what it's worth, if you care at all, this:

 

5 minutes ago, steel6burgh said:

Well when you think about it there really aren't many worthy trophies above 75%.  

 

...is where you lose me and, I suspect, a portion of the "moderate trophy-hunting contingent" support for your argument.

 

 

This statement is simply not true - there are quite a lot of genuinely great games I have that not only have some trophies over 75%, but have entire lists, including platinums that are over 75%.

 

It's not my fight - it's yours - but if I were the one making it, I would avoid statements like this one, as they are so easy to counter with evidence.

Personally, I'd stick to your much more solid points about the proliferation of Gump Jumps and Coffee Runs, which very few people would argue against - including me.

 

[Pots3k]

13 minutes ago, HusKy said:

 

It's not a joke. It's real and it's pretty cool. 10/10 I can recommend.

Yeah it looks like you've put in some serious work, great job!!

[You]

1 minute ago, Kulzyc said:

Just let it go guys.. we've been fighting over this for the past 5 years, it's getting redundant. Nothings gonna change.

 

lol. Be more positive mate!

 

Imagine saying that about just about anything else, like poverty, or crime.

 

Ah well, it's been a problem for a while now, it's old news, nothing's gonna change, so let's just ignore it.

[AJ_Radio]

You guys remember when Stay Pationt would give you walkthroughs for some of the fastest games to platinum? I remember.

 

 

A dude named Cornshaq gave you some of the fastest platinums in 2016 that the average person could afford and finish:

 

 

[SlippingJimy]

1 hour ago, steel6burgh said:

Well the system we have in place is just perfect isn't it?  do you believe we have to take a system that is complete shit and replace it with absolute perfection?  couldn't we take some steps and possibly see if we can just improve things a bit before we achieve the perfect leaderboard?  Isn't that how everything is accomplished.  I mean the guys that 1st started rocket technology didn't just build a rocket and fly it to the moon on the 1st try did they?  Nah, they built a 1000 models that turned into 100's of rockets before they made the one that flew to the moon.  

 

The problem with theses games isn't just the leaderboard on psn profiles.  I can see the writing on the wall.  Somebody is going to play this shit and become so addicted to it they end up ruining their life and harming theirselves.  I'd say it's already happening.  Sony will end up getting sued for allowing such an addictive system and product, at which point , it's ruined for everyone.  Sony has already had to take steps to clean up the PS store.  These game look like shit on their store.  If I had one of the largest video game store and was one of the top platforms in gaming I don't think I'd want "jumping hotdog" crap posted up all over my store front.   

 

We could all but eliminate it ourselves by not rewarding it.  Or we can just wait until it's too late.

Agree with most of this, in some ways I am greatful for these ezy dog shit plats, so I don't have to care about this leaderboard and I can concentrate on platted games I enjoy. 

 

The opposite if I did care and felt I had play these trash plats all that time it would make me completely miserable and I fear for people so wrapped up in it, 

Edited August 30, 2022 by SlipingJimmy

[Ashande]

2 minutes ago, steel6burgh said:

Well when you think about it there really aren't many worthy trophies above 75%.  Even in good games these trophies above 75% are for stupid stuff like completing the tutorial.  Or buying your 1st perk. or finding your 1st collectible.  Keep in mind it would be the same for everyone.  It wouldn't take trophies away form you it just wouldn't award you gamer score for them.  Or we could just keep the fucked up system where we award people 1350 gamer score for holding down the x button 3 minutes or, 1 minute for the turbo version, while someone else sweats their ass off 100 hours completing super Meat boy for the same score.  Would that make you happier????

 

There’s no need to be hostile, and if you’d read my first post, you’d know it would indeed not make me happier. But you still haven’t proposed a workable solution that doesn’t burn somebody just as badly as some folks are being burned now. You say there aren’t many “worthy” trophies above 75%; okay, but what defines “worthy?” As noted, games with a dedicated player base and niche games are going to get roasted hard for that. Beating a Tonberry in Stranger of Paradise isn’t a cakewalk, but it’s at 85%; not worthy? (“Lantern Smasher” on the PS5 list.) “Fashionista Cat” in Cat Quest is also at 85%, but requires a decent amount of time sunk into the game, hardly a “first pick up” sort of ding. Worthy, or no? “Margit, The Fell Omen” - who, admittedly, is the first story-required boss, but still a significant hurdle, is another 85%er. Getting to the halfway point or so of Guardians of the Galaxy will nab you “Between a Rock and a Hard Place,” at 75%, and recruiting Legion in Mass Effect 2 (which only occurs near the end of the game and is optional) to pick up “Friend or Foe” is likewise a task that 75% of the playerbase was up to. “Red Wolf of Radagon” (Elden Ring, again), “Life of the Dragon” (Yakuza 6), “Superior Shot” (Peggle), “Creed of Hatred” (Yakuza Kiwami 2) and “Paved with Good Intentions” (L.A. Noire) are also all in the 75% club, and all require significant investments of time and/or skill to complete. Are they “unworthy?”

 

My point is, any system devised is going to be exploitable in some way, and leave someone feeling like their accomplishments, whatever they may be, are being devalued and pointless. The two major ones being used or proposed (either trophy quantity/score value or rarity) both suffer from these things. Further, when you start using words like “worthy,” you’re inching into gatekeeping territory, which is not a good place to be. Inevitably, someone is going to be on the outside looking in based on an arbitrary decision of what is or is not “worthy” or “legitimate.”

[You]

4 minutes ago, SlipingJimmy said:

Agree with most of this, in some ways I am greatful for these ezy dog shit plats, so I don't have to care about this leaderboard and I can concentrate on platted games I enjoy. 

 

The opposite if I did care and felt I had play these trash plats all that time would make me completely miserable and I fear for people so wrapped up in it. 

 

Great words! And also a very good and interesting way of looking at it.

 

Thinking back I think this is the reason as me, I had a great rivalry with my friend for a few years, we were continually overtaking each constantly. until he started playing Ratalaika games and I just gave in, accepted my defeat "Ok mate you win, I give up" and then I just went at my own pace, and have done ever since.

[Pots3k]

4 minutes ago, Ashande said:

 

There’s no need to be hostile, and if you’d read my first post, you’d know it would indeed not make me happier. But you still haven’t proposed a workable solution that doesn’t burn somebody just as badly as some folks are being burned now. You say there aren’t many “worthy” trophies above 75%; okay, but what defines “worthy?” As noted, games with a dedicated player base and niche games are going to get roasted hard for that. Beating a Tonberry in Stranger of Paradise isn’t a cakewalk, but it’s at 85%; not worthy? (“Lantern Smasher” on the PS5 list.) “Fashionista Cat” in Cat Quest is also at 85%, but requires a decent amount of time sunk into the game, hardly a “first pick up” sort of ding. Worthy, or no? “Margit, The Fell Omen” - who, admittedly, is the first story-required boss, but still a significant hurdle, is another 85%er. Getting to the halfway point or so of Guardians of the Galaxy will nab you “Between a Rock and a Hard Place,” at 75%, and recruiting Legion in Mass Effect 2 (which only occurs near the end of the game and is optional) to pick up “Friend or Foe” is likewise a task that 75% of the playerbase was up to. “Red Wolf of Radagon” (Elden Ring, again), “Life of the Dragon” (Yakuza 6), “Superior Shot” (Peggle), “Creed of Hatred” (Yakuza Kiwami 2) and “Paved with Good Intentions” (L.A. Noire) are also all in the 75% club, and all require significant investments of time and/or skill to complete. Are they “unworthy?”

 

My point is, any system devised is going to be exploitable in some way, and leave someone feeling like their accomplishments, whatever they may be, are being devalued and pointless. The two major ones being used or proposed (either trophy quantity/score value or rarity) both suffer from these things. Further, when you start using words like “worthy,” you’re inching into gatekeeping territory, which is not a good place to be. Inevitably, someone is going to be on the outside looking in based on an arbitrary decision of what is or is not “worthy” or “legitimate.”

I agree that taking away all trophies above 75% isn't the right call. But I think a pretty reasonable start would be all games with platinums that reach 99 to 99.9% completion should immediately vanish from the game and player lists.

[steel6burgh]

28 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Ignoring them works for me 

 

 

 

 

BTW - not for nothing -( I don't get hot under the collar about this issue, and while I respect your opinion generally, I don't agree with it on this issues and that's okay, reasonable adults can disagree on stuff) - and I know you have no real reason to take what I say seriously, but for what it's worth, if you care at all, this:

 

 

...is where you lose me and, I suspect, a portion of the "moderate trophy-hunting contingent" support for your argument.

 

 

This statement is simply not true - there are quite a lot of genuinely great games I have that not only have some trophies over 75%, but have entire lists, including platinums that are over 75%.

 

It's not my fight - it's yours - but if I were the one making it, I would avoid statements like this one, as they are so easy to counter with evidence.

Personally, I'd stick to your much more solid points about the proliferation of Gump Jumps and Coffee Runs, which very few people would argue against - including me.

 

I'm not hot under the collar.  The point is thought the greater percentage of trophies over 75%, of course there would be some that are more deserving that would get disregarded or left behind if you will . look there is no perfect way to do it. I don't really need lessons on making an argument i think I do just fine.  Once we start drifting from discussing a topic to where we start instructing others on how to form their thoughts that is the point in which the conversation needs to end.  I'm not the type who thinks i'm smarter than everyone else to the point I start instructing them. 

 

As to "ignoring them working for you"  Maybe but I see you commenting on all these posts too.  Are you really ignoring them?

Edited August 30, 2022 by steel6burgh

[DrBloodmoney]

13 minutes ago, steel6burgh said:

I'm not hot under the collar.  The point is thought the greater percentage of trophies over 75%, of course there would be some that are more deserving that would get disregarded or left behind if you will . look there is no perfect way to do it. I don't really need lessons on making an argument i think I do just fine.  Once we start drifting from discussing a topic to where we start instructing others on how to form their thoughts that is the point in which the conversation needs to end.  I'm not the type who thinks i'm smarter than everyone else to the point I start instructing them. 

 

As to "ignoring them working for you"  Maybe but I see you commenting on all these posts too.  Are you really ignoring them?

 

Fair enough - I'm not meaning to strut like I'm smarter than anyone - I'm just telling you legitimately where you lose me (and I would assume others like me) in your argument.

 

I'm just saying where I think these conversations go off the rails - and where the points get muddled, and people start splintering off from the core argument you are making, which is that there are too many "just press X" games...

....which let's face it - is the real issue - not whether there should be an arbitrary cut off point, beyond which a game is "worthy".

 

 

I'm not going to fan flames here - you can take what I said as it was intended or not - I guess it really depends on what the desired outcome is...

 

If the intention is to actually change something, then, yes, you should care what the people who disagree with you think, and should care what specific parts of your argument they disagree with, so they can be addressed, and you can win more people round to your way of thinking.

 

If the intention is simply to complain about the situation, and ensure nothing ever changes the way you want it to, then by all means, ignore my points, and let the whole thing devolve into a circular argument from which there is no escape, and no consensus 

 

In the end, I don't want a rarity board, or really care about changing the current set-up...

...so I'm fine with that ?

[Ich1994-1994]

You just need to find a new thing in trophy hunting for yourself. There is tons of project and challanges on this site you can join that can give you competition (I am in one of the backlogs projects for example) you can do ultra rare hunting you can up your completion or you can try to complete game series. A friend of mine started to work on playing all the big good blockbuster games so instead of ice age he played disco elysium and persona 5 now.

there is a lot of things you can do besides going for many points. And sometimes it can be fun to go back to the original trophy hunting and simply get the platinum In games you genuinely enjoy instead of getting the joy out of getting the platinum (I also often struggle to see the difference).

[FilmFanatic]

2 hours ago, Lordguwa said:

 

i hope they keep the timestamps of each game completed. prefer the old lists tbh.

This is what I’m talking about.

[Pots3k]

14 minutes ago, Ich1994-1994 said:

And sometimes it can be fun to go back to the original trophy hunting and simply get the platinum In games you genuinely enjoy instead of getting the joy out of getting the platinum (I also often struggle to see the difference).

I mean, that's my primary goal. I only plat games I enjoy, but it (was) still nice to see how I ranked up against the other people on here in the leaderboard.

[tonkie18]

3 hours ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

 

why should I know that? 

@AJ_Radio stop generalising autistic people, spreading false facts about autism and trying to shame people. You are rude to so many people, aggressive on a lot of posts, and then play the autism card. Just because YOU might not understand sarcasm does not mean every autistic person does not. My son is autistic and has cerebral palsy after a stroke at birth. He understands sarcasm but struggles with many other areas of life. And while we are at it, he can make eye contact too - another overgeneralisation I’m tired of hearing autistic people can’t do. And if you assume his autism isn’t too bad, he stims all day long to deal with life, is obsessed with numbers and Mario, is selectively mute and can barely face the outside world - but he gets my f*ckin jokes! Maybe if you want to educate people about your condition, educate yourself about it first. I’m also sick of seeing you justify your shitty behaviour because you’re autistic. If my son was rude and aggressive to people he would get told too despite his diagnosis. 

[AffectatiousDonk]

4 hours ago, Pots3k said:

Since getting my 200th plat I've been quietly plugging away at my list and slowly making my way up the NZ leaderboard which has been a fun goal to work towards. All of a sudden, I've lost three places to people who have just platted 10+ of these stupid mayo games. It is really disheartening and is killing my enjoyment of trophy hunting.

 

Oh and to anyone lined up with a "none of it matters" or "who cares" or equally unimaginative post, I'll cut you off right now because, you see, the point of a leaderboard is to create an environment of competition between people which is inherently important to the people involved. If you're not interested in that competition, good for you, other people are.

I respect your opinion and I understand how little joy there must be living in NZ so I can sympathise the joy climbing the boards did bring. Taking this away is not fair but I do admire you for holding the course and not moving to Australia like so many of your fellow brethren. As for the games and climbing the boards I would advise you to play every game, you might be surprised how many interesting titles you are missing. And what else are you going to spend your money on over there, well except the obvious ? 

[Killbomb]

All the shovelware is one reason I moved to mainly achievement hunting on Xbox. Sure there are some easy achievement games over there but there generally aren't stacks for 5 different regions with multiple console generation stacks on top of that. 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Killbomb

[steel6burgh]

23 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Fair enough - I'm not meaning to strut like I'm smarter than anyone - I'm just telling you legitimately where you lose me (and I would assume others like me) in your argument.

 

I'm just saying where I think these conversations go off the rails - and where the points get muddled, and people start splintering off from the core argument you are making, which is that there are too many "just press X" games...

....which let's face it - is the real issue - not whether there should be an arbitrary cut off point, beyond which a game is "worthy".

 

 

I'm not going to fan flames here - you can take what I said as it was intended or not - I guess it really depends on what the desired outcome is...

 

If the intention is to actually change something, then, yes, you should care what the people who disagree with you think, and should care what specific parts of your argument they disagree with, so they can be addressed, and you can win more people round to your way of thinking.

 

If the intention is simply to complain about the situation, and ensure nothing ever changes the way you want it to, then by all means, ignore my points, and let the whole thing devolve into a circular argument from which there is no escape, and no consensus 

 

In the end, I don't want a rarity board, or really care about changing the current set-up...

...so I'm fine with that 

All good.  we are never going to agree that is fine.  No sense in discussing it anymore about rarity.

[JediKnight_327]

Sony need to bring back the old short trophy list with no platinum trophy and only make that available to developers that cant prove their games have a reasonable depth of gameplay.

[AJ_Radio]

15 minutes ago, tonkie18 said:

@AJ_Radio stop generalising autistic people, spreading false facts about autism and trying to shame people. You are rude to so many people, aggressive on a lot of posts, and then play the autism card. Just because YOU might not understand sarcasm does not mean every autistic person does not. My son is autistic and has cerebral palsy after a stroke at birth. He understands sarcasm but struggles with many other areas of life. And while we are at it, he can make eye contact too - another overgeneralisation I’m tired of hearing autistic people can’t do. And if you assume his autism isn’t too bad, he stims all day long to deal with life, is obsessed with numbers and Mario, is selectively mute and can barely face the outside world - but he gets my f*ckin jokes! Maybe if you want to educate people about your condition, educate yourself about it first. I’m also sick of seeing you justify your shitty behaviour because you’re autistic. If my son was rude and aggressive to people he would get told too despite his diagnosis. 

 

Go listen to yourself. This is my last response to you. You're permanently staying on my Ignore List because frankly I'm fed up with putting up with your shit. Don't bother responding back to me, because I will no longer comment back.