SakiSakiSakiSakiSaki Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 How is this thread not locked yet lol. It didn't take even take an hour for the first insult to be thrown lmao. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashande Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 4 hours ago, Darling Baphomet said: Is it gatekeeping to ban hackers, griefers, etc from your games? Communities require gatekeeping to survive, and every decision you make about how to implement gatekeeping will be an arbitrary one. Why is it wrong to ban someone who, say, does nothing but spam slurs from your Discord server? Sure, it probably offends or at least annoys the fuck out of everyone, but why does that mean they can't participate? The answer is because someone in a position of power decided it'd make their community better. ... But that's completely irrelevant, because we're not talking about gatekeeping. Nobody in this thread has argued that all people who play ezpz plats should be banned from the forum or in any way prevented from participating in it, just that our competitions should have rules so as to prevent them degenerating into being quite literally pay to win. To imply that having standards for a competition or activity is gatekeeping is absurd. You may as well argue that every game developer who's ever balanced a game is a gatekeeper, then, as they've designated themselves arbiters of which tools and strategies are appropriate, which need to be cut down, et cetera. To say nothing of the virtual war crime of gatekeeping that is ranked gamemodes. Nowhere did I discuss removing anyone at all from the forum for any reason. From context, the course of the discussion and the examples I provided in the post you’ve quoted, I feel it was fairly clear that I was specifically referring to arbitrary criteria such as trophy rarity being used to determine if a trophy “counts.” It has nothing to do with hackers or griefers or people spamming slurs; it has everything to do with people saying “Nuh uh, this shouldn’t count because I think it’s bad” due to dissatisfaction with their position on the Leaderboard, making elitist commentary on what is a “worthy” trophy that “counts” and making that determination based on rarity - which has, at best, a tenuous relationship with the concept of a “legitimate” game or the skill and time investment required to attain it - and that making calls of that type is going to lock people out… to say nothing of what happens when, say, they actually do something such as discard all “trophy trash” (whatever your definition of that may be) or anything above an arbitrary rarity number and it still doesn’t produce the result the individual was looking for. 1 hour ago, willmill97 said: It's literally called quality control. They absolutely should be able to deem whether they're real games, because they absolutely aren't I don’t disagree with the sentiment that a lot of these aren’t “real” games, but I have an issue with going down this road for a number of reasons. Primarily that it is a very easy slippery slope to barrel down. Once you start making judgments on what a “real” game is based on “I’ll know it when I see it” criteria, you’ve opened the door to running this entire 10+ year argument, just in reverse. Once The Jumping Fries is gone, then folks will go back to complaining My Name is Mayo and Mr. Massagy don’t count, then to EastAsia and Rat shouldn’t count, and so on. One can argue that the slippery slope concept is a fallacy, but the internet (in particular any creative or competitive corner of it) seems to love grabbing a toboggan and having a go with the slightest opportunity or provocation. 2 hours ago, SnowxSakura said: One of the easier fixes would be to just make it so only one stack of a game counts towards the leaderboard Not sure how I feel on that one; I can see positives and negatives there. It’s certainly something worth discussing further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sepheroithisgod Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 9 minutes ago, SakiSakiSakiSakiSaki said: How is this thread not locked yet lol. It didn't take even take an hour for the first insult to be thrown lmao. Perhaps the mods realize that shutting down every thread for another one to crop up the next day is a futile effort? The only real solution is for @Sly Ripper to actually address the issue. This isn't the kind of issue that will just go away. The problem continues to become more severe every year, and the community clearly wants to have more options when it comes to leaderboards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakiSakiSakiSakiSaki Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Darling Baphomet said: Is it gatekeeping to ban hackers, griefers, etc from your games? Communities require gatekeeping to survive, and every decision you make about how to implement gatekeeping will be an arbitrary one. I 1000% agree with this sentiment. I've always been a fan of gatekeeping, because anything mainstream has a risk of turning into shite like Marvel. 2 minutes ago, sepheroithisgod said: Perhaps the mods realize that shutting down every thread for another one to crop up the next day is a futile effort? The only real solution is for @Sly Ripper to actually address the issue. This isn't the kind of issue that will just go away. The problem continues to become more severe every year, and the community clearly wants to have more options when it comes to leaderboards. I'm surprised none of this frustration has evolved into competitor sites with fancy CSS and all the QOL features that PSNP has been missing for half a decade. Ya'll need to utilize this anger as a weapon and make your own sites lol. Edited August 30, 2022 by SakiSakiSakiSakiSaki 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post You Posted August 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2022 31 minutes ago, HusKy said: This doesn't sound like a good solution at all? There's a ton of games that have stacks where you need to play the stack from scratch. Yeah I agree, stacks aren't fully part of the problem (although it is a big cause) I have several stacks of most Dynasty Warriors games, because for me it's fun to play in Japanese first and then English so practice my reading ability and then later play it for fun knowing what to do and also skim read mostly and see if my understanding was correct. Each of these games are usually at least 100 hours each and so banning stacks doesn't help too much. I am certainly not gonna play those games back and back and 8 times in the same day. And what of all those Racing 2 player edition, Racing 3 player edition, and CJ Ball Level 1, CJ Ball Level 2, I mean they're technically stacks, but are released as entirely new products despite being a barely "legible continuation" of 5 minutes. Banning stacks doesn't solve those series that are carved up into weird multipart sequels as if they are TellTale Part series. Removing stacks just means I lose several 100+ hour platinums and people you are trying to punish, well they just lost many several 5 minute stacks, and they just go out and buy Racing 5 player edition and CJ Ball Level 5CJD instead. SInce all the guys at the top lose all the trophy points together (in other words they feel nothing because they all suffered in equal measure) It only hurts regular users who probably played several stacks for fun, although of course it does solve some of the weird 2 second PS5 plat pops. Honestly there is no good solution. Other than a rarity leaderboard, which of course isn't perfect and has a lot of loop holes, but compared to quantity winning, anything is preferable to the system we have now. I think by next year there will be no point in playing real games any longer (well if you want to maintain your lead anyway) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunny Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 That's why I play and complete stuff mostly for my personal satisfaction, with the amount of cheaters, shovelware trash and dubious action I've seen here would be a headache not to do so, you can't control how others behave but can control how you do stuff and how you perceive it, also the leaderboard here has been thrown to the dogs years ago, unless you add trash 10 minutes spamware to your list you ain't going far. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldish-pride5 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 My av is silver and yours is green.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ_Solo Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 (edited) Edited August 30, 2022 by TJ_Solo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anbukakashi1994 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 55 minutes ago, HusKy said: This doesn't sound like a good solution at all? There's a ton of games that have stacks where you need to play the stack from scratch. a simple white-list for those games would be enough, y'all make it sound like those things are sooo difficult to do but its very easy for the devs implement especially being people who already know about web development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEGOmii Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 If leaderboards based on quantity is what you're chasing then play the shovel ware. Otherwise refocus and chase things like rarity or first achiever. While Sony allows junk to be sold on it's systems for a couple £ this problem won't go away. Like it or not there's a market for it. Fingers crossed people working on these games build knowledge and skills to branch out and make something good, or great even. 6 minutes ago, anbukakashi1994 said: a simple white-list for those games would be enough, y'all make it sound like those things are sooo difficult to do but its very easy for the devs implement especially being people who already know about web development. In principle yes. But then there's the overhead to maintain the list, update in timely manner etc etc. There's no automatic method to identify these games so someone would have to do it. And it's subjective; what makes a game worth putting on the list? Time to plat? Better chuck Subnautica on there because of the dev commands bug. It'd be such a thankless task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedbeardRik Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 Truetrophies is where it's at if you want decent leaderboards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JourneySilvers Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Pots3k said: Well, this has been fun and really constructive for the most part, I appreciate everyone's input. There's probably not much more that can be said about the matter, I'll just go back to playing games and maybe hanging around Truetrophies more instead. Thanks for the chat everyone! @DaivRules feel free to lock, I can see where this is starting to go A last suggestion maybe, but I know some people have mentioned discords. I know one youtuber named PlatinumBro hosts trophy hunting challenges on his discord, so that might be a fun way for you to compete that isn't completely screwed up ? hope you find a way to keep having fun with the hobby ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milktastrophe Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, LEGOmii said: In principle yes. But then there's the overhead to maintain the list, update in timely manner etc etc. There's no automatic method to identify these games so someone would have to do it. And it's subjective; what makes a game worth putting on the list? This is a non-issue. The staff does it. The same people that are already manually linking all the different stacks together and putting together the series lists. As for how they decide what's worthy, we've got the age old argument of it's Sly's site so him and the staff can do whatever the f they want. Their decisions are arbitrary and absolute, so accept it. Edited August 30, 2022 by Milktastrophe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groudon199 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 2 hours ago, coldish-pride5 said: the point of a leaderboard is to create an environment of competition between people which is inherently important to the people involved. If you're not interested in that competition, good for you, other people are.? You don’t get to choose or judge based on your own standards, I get my platinum badge today in 14 months, I live within my means and I’ve worked my way up to 3rd place, buying cross buys and any cheap affordable plats as possible, if you don’t like that, “then tough luck” you don’t get to judge me!!, I'm genuinely curious, is there anything you like about "games" such as Desert Journey, The Volleyball B, and The Jumping Pasta? The games themselves, not the trophy list. Like, could you honestly recommend these games to anyone who has zero interest in trophies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post SakiSakiSakiSakiSaki Posted August 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, coldish-pride5 said: the point of a leaderboard is to create an environment of competition between people which is inherently important to the people involved. If you're not interested in that competition, good for you, other people are.? You don’t get to choose or judge based on your own standards, I get my platinum badge today in 14 months, I live within my means and I’ve worked my way up to 3rd place, buying cross buys and any cheap affordable plats as possible, if you don’t like that, “then tough luck” you don’t get to judge me!!, I totally get to judge you. All of us are allowed to judge you. Nobody is exempt from judgement. 3rd place ranking with a 89% average rarity isn’t all that impressive, and the fact that even happened in the first place is a tell-tale sign that trophy hunting is in it’s most diseased state possible. A leaderboard is no longer competitive when the top rankers acquired their spots with pure cash. Edited August 30, 2022 by SakiSakiSakiSakiSaki ?? is not ?? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HusKy Posted August 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2022 27 minutes ago, anbukakashi1994 said: a simple white-list for those games would be enough, y'all make it sound like those things are sooo difficult to do but its very easy for the devs implement especially being people who already know about web development. Thank you buddy, I don't know much about this stuff. Your post was enlightening for me. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speling_Expirt Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 18 minutes ago, LEGOmii said: Fingers crossed people working on these games build knowledge and skills to branch out and make something good, or great even. This is a push.. I mean, obviously I hope for this too but I can't see it. Why would they? This 'works' for them because they are making bank from putting in the least amount of effort in making pixels jump, selling a level as one game, and stacking them up higher than Gramma's dishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldish-pride5 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 You’re just jealous and poor sportsman ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiCBZ Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 Bruh, is he jealous of what? You literally have 1000+ Platinums and like 5 Ultra Rares, being 3rd in the leaderboard with a profile like that is not impressive at all. There is a difference between Trophy hunting and Trophy popping that needs to be acknowledged. And you are being judged because everyone has the right to do so, otherwise, profiles wouldn't be here to be seen by the other. 24 minutes ago, Groudon199 said: I'm genuinely curious, is there anything you like about "games" such as Desert Journey, The Volleyball B, and The Jumping Pasta? The games themselves, not the trophy list. Like, could you honestly recommend these games to anyone who has zero interest in trophies? "The Trophies from these games are very useful, because they provide a lot of interesting facts most people don't know, in the future I may be able to win money on a TV show!" ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Alchemist Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 8 minutes ago, SakiSakiSakiSakiSaki said: 3rd place ranking in a 3rd world country with a 89% average rarity isn’t all that impressive And the award for most moronic comment of the year goes to... Ireland is not a third world country and I'm pretty sure we even rank above the US in the majority of metrics. People should really engage their brains before posting whatever diarrhea comes to mind. Your ignorance is astounding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Milktastrophe Posted August 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2022 11 minutes ago, coldish-pride5 said: You’re just jealous and poor sportsman If you don't want to be judged, then you should hide your profile. The whole point of a public profile is for people to judge you. You probably didn't do yourself any favors on that front by calling yourself out. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_-_808 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 (edited) 39 minutes ago, coldish-pride5 said: You’re just jealous and poor sportsman ? If this was an actual legitimate competition (with a governing body etc), all those types of plats might be compared to doping @tonkie18, this is the type of post/behavior/attitude that i mentioned to you in a past thread. It's this kind of "thumb in the eye" that spawned this mess way back then. Edited August 30, 2022 by AJ_-_808 Typo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-E-U-S-X Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 The leaderboard on this page is based on points only. If it were based on respect, the top 100 would look very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldish-pride5 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 It’s not a coincidence that the bulk of players with a higher number of threads are the lowest in the rankings, “play some games”!, if you judge somebody then you create conflict, I could be of the opinion that if your not in the top 1000 in the rankings then you shouldn’t be txting me!, the reality of the leaderboard is if you’re not number 1 then you’re last, and there’s only one number 1 on here, you guys want to create an environment that suits your budget and time and principals etc, we all ticked the same box agreeing to the T&C’s. You should just get along otherwise you could put people off joining the site, genuinely for the recocord I plugged the fact I EARNED my platinum badge and boosted my views (thnx). It didn’t go all to plan though, I didn’t know I my real PlayStation dashboard would freeze, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEGOmii Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 39 minutes ago, Milktastrophe said: This is a non-issue. The staff does it. The same people that are already manually linking all the different stacks together and putting together the series lists. As for how they decide what's worthy, we've got the age old argument of it's Sly's site so him and the staff can do whatever the f they want. Their decisions are arbitrary and absolute, so accept it. It is an issue. Spotting stacks and a series is not a matter of opinion and the least amount of research to identify. Marking a game as a particular type requires an amount more effort. It isn't free and is more than you're describing, and once you start it'll be a pain to stop, and all the while these games will just keep coming. It would not be a smart business move, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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