Maxie_M0us3 Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) [DELETED] Edited October 14, 2022 by MaxieM0us3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRedMaverick Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 It's just a natural bottleneck issue. You have potentially thousands of people hacking (sometimes on multiple accounts) and only 4 volunteers on the site to clean it up. You either need more volunteers or introduce more automation (but that could cause the reverse issue where innocent people end up getting flagged and it takes long to clear their names). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChibsSoA Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, TheRedMaverick said: It's just a natural bottleneck issue. You have potentially thousands of people hacking (sometimes on multiple accounts) and only 4 volunteers on the site to clean it up. You either need more volunteers or introduce more automation (but that could cause the reverse issue where innocent people end up getting flagged and it takes long to clear their names). Should just start IP banning any devices ever associated with the account. At that point the only circumventing is a VPN and I just don't see many people caring that much to go that far. People who care enough to hack trophies are absolutely logging in on both PC and phone at one point or another, it's probably easy to catch all their devices in one swift ban. I promise you there are not thousands of people currently hacking PS3 games that are registered to this site lol (I would guess at best 50, any more than that would be truly wild). If the current approach is just to ban the account from the database and not IP ban, there's an easy solution. When it's just bragging rights at stake (esp for older stuff like PS3 games), people aren't going to go all that far once you IP ban, they'll just give up. You rely on the help of users to identify and prove the cheating, and then once proven you IP ban. Cheating must be 100% proveable though and person should be given a chance to counter argue before IP ban. The people doing this, this is their one thing in life they're attached to because they feel validated by hitting high leaderboard rank. Take their ability away, convince them they're done for good, and they will drop the "hobby" entirely IMO. Just basic human psychology. In the rare chance someone's sibling gets banned as a result of sharing a computer or whatever, well too bad. Go take it up with your cheating sibling. Hopefully there is a way to IP ban, if not then yeah that's not ever getting fixed Edited October 14, 2022 by ChibsSoA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunny Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 At this point it's the CFW Leaderboard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxia Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 The funny thing is it probably takes more effort to do that then those jumping games ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChibsSoA Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 8 minutes ago, Toxia said: The funny thing is it probably takes more effort to do that then those jumping games 100%. Can't make a new PSN account with remote play macro mashing X. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrimpey Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) On 15.9.2022 at 11:11 PM, ArmoredSnowman said: You don't mean the guy with 2012 Uncharted: Golden Abyss trophies in the middle of 2020 games, do you? To this day, I still fail to see how that's possible I also did the Unchtarted Golden Abyss Plat this year? how is it impossible ? it doenst have an MP or online trophys? Edit: NVM i should read Sorry its to early Edited October 14, 2022 by Schrimpey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRedMaverick Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 38 minutes ago, ChibsSoA said: Should just start IP banning any devices ever associated with the account. At that point the only circumventing is a VPN and I just don't see many people caring that much to go that far. People who care enough to hack trophies are absolutely logging in on both PC and phone at one point or another, it's probably easy to catch all their devices in one swift ban. I promise you there are not thousands of people currently hacking PS3 games that are registered to this site lol (I would guess at best 50, any more than that would be truly wild). If the current approach is just to ban the account from the database and not IP ban, there's an easy solution. When it's just bragging rights at stake (esp for older stuff like PS3 games), people aren't going to go all that far once you IP ban, they'll just give up. You rely on the help of users to identify and prove the cheating, and then once proven you IP ban. Cheating must be 100% proveable though and person should be given a chance to counter argue before IP ban. The people doing this, this is their one thing in life they're attached to because they feel validated by hitting high leaderboard rank. Take their ability away, convince them they're done for good, and they will drop the "hobby" entirely IMO. Just basic human psychology. In the rare chance someone's sibling gets banned as a result of sharing a computer or whatever, well too bad. Go take it up with your cheating sibling. Hopefully there is a way to IP ban, if not then yeah that's not ever getting fixed I'm pretty sure Sony actually does IP ban, but not really sure how effective it actually is. I think the truth about PS3 though is it's considered abandonware for Sony. They'll do the bare minimum to keep it up and running but they've basically given up (they especially don't care about illegitimate trophies). Outside of the leaderboards here and maybe a few other sites, hacked trophies have no impact so it's pretty much up to this site to uphold the authenticity of the leaderboards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChibsSoA Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, TheRedMaverick said: I'm pretty sure Sony actually does IP ban, but not really sure how effective it actually is. I think the truth about PS3 though is it's considered abandonware for Sony. They'll do the bare minimum to keep it up and running but they've basically given up (they especially don't care about illegitimate trophies). Outside of the leaderboards here and maybe a few other sites, hacked trophies have no impact so it's pretty much up to this site to uphold the authenticity of the leaderboards No I meant on this site, they should IP ban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M-C83 Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 Just scrap the leaderboard altogether its pointless these days with the all baby games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashande Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 On 9/16/2022 at 4:39 AM, hi-im-hawkeye said: Why even care about the leaderboards. If people want to hack trophies, what does it matter to you? The leaderboards literally serve no purpose. You don't win anything. It's just for show. Caring about the leaderboards is not the only reason someone might take issue with trophy hackers. Some folks have issues with people who can’t behave themselves like civilized humans and follow the rules. Some folks also find it simultaneously interesting and irritating that a not-insignificant number of CFW proponents and trophy hackers also have their fingers in other unsavory practices (piracy or script-kiddy “hack attacks,” for example.) Some folks have issues with how trophy hackers can potentially cause issues for legitimate players, trophy hunters or otherwise, who have essentially been run off certain games (Grand Theft Auto IV and Black Ops, for example.) And some folks (sort of an extension of the people who want people to be civilized and follow the rules) just think people who cheat, in any fashion, in any venue, should be nuked from orbit for being pathetic little lumps who want to picture themselves as Captain Kirk rigging the Kobayashi Maru simulation, but actually come off as being insecure little snots who can’t be bothered to actually become proficient at something legitimately or let go of something that is unable to be obtained by legitimate means. 52 minutes ago, ChibsSoA said: Should just start IP banning any devices ever associated with the account. At that point the only circumventing is a VPN and I just don't see many people caring that much to go that far. People who care enough to hack trophies are absolutely logging in on both PC and phone at one point or another, it's probably easy to catch all their devices in one swift ban. I promise you there are not thousands of people currently hacking PS3 games that are registered to this site lol (I would guess at best 50, any more than that would be truly wild). If the current approach is just to ban the account from the database and not IP ban, there's an easy solution. When it's just bragging rights at stake (esp for older stuff like PS3 games), people aren't going to go all that far once you IP ban, they'll just give up. […] I wish I had your level of optimism. That isn’t sarcasm or mockery; it’s a genuine statement. My experience has shown that if it’s possible to cheat a system and act as though you’ve gained something from it - no matter how illusory or “meaningless” it may be or seem - someone will put in the effort to do it. Sometimes they’re just that… I don’t want to use the word “addicted,” as people like to scold you when you use that term outside of a clinical diagnosis, but… determined? Close enough. Sometimes they’re just that big of a dick. Sometimes they think they’re making some sort of point. There’s a million reasons, and while I do think an IP ban is a good idea, I don’t believe it will stop all - or even half - of these twits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRedMaverick Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 11 minutes ago, ChibsSoA said: No I meant on this site, they should IP ban Ah ok, yeah I think this site actually does IP ban as well to protect against bots from updating profiles too often but it's usually on a temporary basis and not sure if it happens when hackers are detected. That being said, there are free VPN browser add-ins that would make circumventing that trivial so I'm pretty sure it's always going to be this game of cat and mouse with hackers lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChibsSoA Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Ashande said: Caring about the leaderboards is not the only reason someone might take issue with trophy hackers. Some folks have issues with people who can’t behave themselves like civilized humans and follow the rules. Some folks also find it simultaneously interesting and irritating that a not-insignificant number of CFW proponents and trophy hackers also have their fingers in other unsavory practices (piracy or script-kiddy “hack attacks,” for example.) Some folks have issues with how trophy hackers can potentially cause issues for legitimate players, trophy hunters or otherwise, who have essentially been run off certain games (Grand Theft Auto IV and Black Ops, for example.) And some folks (sort of an extension of the people who want people to be civilized and follow the rules) just think people who cheat, in any fashion, in any venue, should be nuked from orbit for being pathetic little lumps who want to picture themselves as Captain Kirk rigging the Kobayashi Maru simulation, but actually come off as being insecure little snots who can’t be bothered to actually become proficient at something legitimately or let go of something that is unable to be obtained by legitimate means. I wish I had your level of optimism. That isn’t sarcasm or mockery; it’s a genuine statement. My experience has shown that if it’s possible to cheat a system and act as though you’ve gained something from it - no matter how illusory or “meaningless” it may be or seem - someone will put in the effort to do it. Sometimes they’re just that… I don’t want to use the word “addicted,” as people like to scold you when you use that term outside of a clinical diagnosis, but… determined? Close enough. Sometimes they’re just that big of a dick. Sometimes they think they’re making some sort of point. There’s a million reasons, and while I do think an IP ban is a good idea, I don’t believe it will stop all - or even half - of these twits. Oh yeah I guarantee they will try, but they will very quickly be dismissed. An IP ban wouldn't allow any users using that IP to sign up again. If they go to their friends house and sign up, the second they sign in on their pc or phone they're cooked forever. And they would very fast run out of devices They would have to pay monthly for a VPN to be allowed back. And I just see most people doing it at that point just saying forget it and moving on to try it somewhere else. If they pay for a VPN, nothing anyone can do can stop them anyway. At least it would mitigate the amount of people willing to continue on with it. Short of doing that though I don't know if it's even solveable. To me the only way to solve it is to prevent them from accessing the site 15 minutes ago, TheRedMaverick said: Ah ok, yeah I think this site actually does IP ban as well to protect against bots from updating profiles too often but it's usually on a temporary basis and not sure if it happens when hackers are detected. That being said, there are free VPN browser add-ins that would make circumventing that trivial so I'm pretty sure it's always going to be this game of cat and mouse with hackers lol Shouldn't be temporary, and if they want to use risky free VPNs they will get away with it no matter what. Some are definitely dumb kids that just Googled "how to hack (game name) save and followed some message board instructions, they're not all smart enough to use VPNs or want to risk screwing with their IP just for this. At least it's somewhat of a preventative measure though. Doing nothing is the alternative and you just continue what is happening now Edited October 14, 2022 by ChibsSoA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUDGER666 Posted October 14, 2022 Author Share Posted October 14, 2022 1 hour ago, TheRedMaverick said: It's just a natural bottleneck issue. You have potentially thousands of people hacking (sometimes on multiple accounts) and only 4 volunteers on the site to clean it up. You either need more volunteers or introduce more automation (but that could cause the reverse issue where innocent people end up getting flagged and it takes long to clear their names). For clear CFW users it should be a simple quick removal, flagged accounts yea they will probably take a bit longer. I don't know how it works but I'm guessing there is a list of people flagged and they just go down the list and do however many they have time or can be bothered to do a day. I don't know if they even check the leaderboards because the account at the top has 4.2k hacked games with no timestamps and can't be flagged as far as i can see. But then again some users are taken off the leaderboard in just a few hours like the person who was at No 4 today, it just all seems a mess and inconsistent. As I've said before i don't think those who help do things in this site get paid, so I'm really not surprised it's getting worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FawltyPowers Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 On 15/09/2022 at 7:52 PM, DaivRules said: one of the Cheater Removers specifically said they didn't want more automation, they would rather have more people, which I'm pretty sure is how we got the 4th Cheater Remover added to the group. On 15/09/2022 at 8:03 PM, GUDGER666 said: I'm a bit baffled by this. Indeed. More automation is definitely the way forward. I've only reported a handful of people, but it's always been because they have earned trophies after server shutdowns, at that point they are impossible to get, why isn't that automated instead of manual intervention? Maybe they are and I've just happened to get there first, that I don't know. There must be hundreds, if not thousands of scenarios that will pick up impossibly earned timestamps, if for whatever reason some of these conditions turn out to be wrong then that's what the dispute is for and they can be ironed out. As the situation gets worse and more and more people do it then it will save hours and hours for the Cheater Removal Team so they can look at cases that actually warrant investigation. On saying that, a good starting point raised many times is when someone clicks on Dispute there should already be the game name, platform, region and flagged reason automatically output, then all the disputer has to do is give a reason as to why the flag is wrong, saves the laborious "What's the reason for your flag" reply ad infinitum. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkrobot_pb Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 5 hours ago, ChibsSoA said: No I meant on this site, they should IP ban Hopefully only Sony knows the IP associated with a certain PSN account or console. If they broadcast my IP through their API, I would be upset. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashande Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 3 hours ago, pinkrobot_pb said: Hopefully only Sony knows the IP associated with a certain PSN account or console. If they broadcast my IP through their API, I would be upset. I believe they meant IP ban based on the one being used to access PSNP… though now it occurs to me that it’d be easy to circumvent any consequences of your account being yeeted by just not signing up, since even when not logged in you can request to view/update a profile. Request a view/update of your shiny new hacked profile without ever logging in (or from a different computer/mobile/WiFi hotspot/whatever), et voila. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackenzie129 Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 IP banning is silly in some ways my ISP uses private customer IP's while having a broad public IP. If people who work on this site can actually see this info my IP appears as lets say 111.11.111.1 when its actually 122.12.111.79 (These aren't my real numbers I'm not that stupid) So if they were to ban 111.11.111.1 they'd ban about 5-600 customers that are on this specific private IP don't throw the baby out with the bath water IMO Honestly they should add a PS3 team and a VITA team just to handle those flags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkrobot_pb Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ashande said: I believe they meant IP ban based on the one being used to access PSNP… though now it occurs to me that it’d be easy to circumvent any consequences of your account being yeeted by just not signing up, since even when not logged in you can request to view/update a profile. Request a view/update of your shiny new hacked profile without ever logging in (or from a different computer/mobile/WiFi hotspot/whatever), et voila. And you can update other people's accounts too, which may lead to banning the wrong people. And that is besides proxy servers and VPN's. No, this is simply not feasible. As far as the automation, it could simply select profiles/games that members of the CRT would review. It would not have to flag outright, it could be a helper in that sense. Anyway, none of that will happen because it would require coding effort. Manually reporting them is still the best way to deal with it. Edited October 14, 2022 by pinkrobot_pb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUDGER666 Posted October 15, 2022 Author Share Posted October 15, 2022 I've asked this multiple times and never got an answer, how easy is it to remove someone? I've never seen it take so long for hackers to be removed, If it's quick and easy to do my question is what is going on. If it's not that simple, one thing in would suggest is the CRT build a team of their own to combat all the cheats. If you aren't will to do that then it's time to bring in more official people in especially for the PS3 leaderboard because it just looks to be abandoned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChibsSoA Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, GUDGER666 said: I've asked this multiple times and never got an answer, how easy is it to remove someone? I've never seen it take so long for hackers to be removed, If it's quick and easy to do my question is what is going on. If it's not that simple, one thing in would suggest is the CRT build a team of their own to combat all the cheats. If you aren't will to do that then it's time to bring in more official people in especially for the PS3 leaderboard because it just looks to be abandoned. They have bigger fish to fry than leaderboards. The amount of people that actually care about leaderboards are probably very small compared to the number of people that use the site just for tracking purposes. And the site team is pretty small ontop of that. They're not going to pay people to solely work on leaderboards, site probably doesn't generate nearly enough money to warrant doing that. I personally think people need to just move on from focusing so much on leaderboards to the point where it upsets them this much. It sucks to say, like yeah cheaters shouldn't get to run dominant, but it's been this way for a long time and there's no possible solution when you don't need to register to the site to be on those leaderboards. And honestly, what are you even competing for other than who can spend the most time and money on a given console or genre. The metrics aren't based on actual gamer skill or anything worth measuring, it's literally just who can spend the most time and money when you're not weighing hard plats against easy ones. And even then the site can't determine "hard vs easy" it can only determine "rare vs not rare". Competing against others in terms of who can spend more money or time, to me personally is just a waste of your money and time. Some might not like my response here but opinions are just opinions, people are allowed to disagree. I feel like the site functions best as a log for yourself to store memories and personal accomplishments. No other site rivals it in that regard. Compete against yourself, not others. Be OK with knowing you got a trophy that you found difficult, put less pressure on needing to brag about it. Set your own goals in specific games and learn to feel happy when you meet them, it's more fun than constantly chasing a moving goal post. Plus you won't have burned out eye sockets like Hakoom. Again, opinions can vary on this no big deal, just feel some people get really worked up about this stuff and wanted to give some other viewpoints on it - and hopefully persuade some people to realize they can (and should) be happy with their own accomplishments outside of leaderboards Edited October 15, 2022 by ChibsSoA 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUDGER666 Posted October 15, 2022 Author Share Posted October 15, 2022 10 minutes ago, ChibsSoA said: They have bigger fish to fry than leaderboards. That's literally the point of the CRT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChibsSoA Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, GUDGER666 said: That's literally the point of the CRT. What does CRT stand for? Never heard about it until you just brought it up Ah nvm, see it. Cheater removal team. Had no idea we even had a specific team for that. I mean you have 4 people total and I see 95,000+ cheaters removed over time. That's kind of crazy to me. Maybe just make it so that nothing factors into the leaderboards unless they're registered on site? If you just leave it where non-site members can be on there then it's just making life harder for themselves I guess. Although idk how that would affect things like "world rank" if it factors in outsiders. Doesn't seem like there's an easy solution other than to do it how they're doing it. They know better than any of us. Do they ever post in topics like this to give their take, or their side of the story? For all we know they are doing their job and the queues they have to work on are just insanely long Edited October 15, 2022 by ChibsSoA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x7251 Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 Last month on 9/15/2022, I showed that 23 people have gotten Real world winner trophy in FIFA 09 after June 3, 2009, which is impossible as the trophy was only obtainable from March 19, 2009 to June 3, 2009. It has gotten worse since then, as now 27 people are on the leaderboards that have obtained Real world winner after June 3, 2009. https://psnprofiles.com/trophy/72-fifa-09/46-real-world-winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChibsSoA Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, x7251 said: Last month on 9/15/2022, I showed that 23 people have gotten Real world winner trophy in FIFA 09 after June 3, 2009, which is impossible as the trophy was only obtainable from March 19, 2009 to June 3, 2009. It has gotten worse since then, as now 27 people are on the leaderboards that have obtained Real world winner after June 3, 2009. https://psnprofiles.com/trophy/72-fifa-09/46-real-world-winner Looks like they got someone 2 weeks before for this same trophy. That tells me they just have a lot of work and your reports are somewhere in the backlog, bc it's clearly not them feeling it's unjustified in terms of a complaint. The problem is they should be banning these people bc I imagine if they don't, they will just get more reports for OTHER games they cheated, making their cheating queues to look through so much worse as that goes for any cheaters on here. Instead it seems they let people stay and just ban them off leaderboards (based on that post). That might be a huge bottleneck issue that should be considered. You might have user X in their cheating queue multiple times for diff games and that gives unnecessary work to the anti cheating team. Why not just ban them outright from the site and have all pending reviews for them in the queue deleted in one quick swoop? Maybe I'm just trigger happy but I don't think the ad revenue lost from cheaters would be all that much, screw em lol Edited October 15, 2022 by ChibsSoA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts