Rumour: PS5 Redesign to Feature Detachable Disc Drive

[Dreakon13]

1 hour ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

 

I know enough to know you aren’t trolling or anything, and I don’t know what physical prices are like in Ireland, but man… the only thing I thought reading this was “are you having a laugh?” ?

 

Physical cheaper than digital?
Where?

I fee like I’m regularly buying stuff at a 70-80% discount in the constant sales on the digital stores at dangerously cheap prices… and getting full “ultimate” editions with season passes etc for like half the price I see the base game selling for in physical stores around here! ?

 

Not to mention the fact that a lot of games only get physical versions via things like Limited Run Games - where people seem to be overpaying by absurd amounts for games relative to the digital versions.

 

I mean, don’t get me wrong - personally, I’d pay more for a digital copy of a game anyways (can’t scratch or lose a digital game…which is more of an issue in my house than it should be for discs with a kid around!)…

…but in all seriousness… I keep hearing about this price disparity that makes physical cheaper - yet my own experience seems to suggest the exact opposite 

 

Right now if I wanted to buy a digital copy of Deathloop (and I didn't have PS+), it'd cost me $60 on PSN.  I recently bought a new sealed copy on eBay for $17.

 

Even taking secondhand out of the equation, on Best Buy right now a digital copy of Assassin's Creed Odyssey costs $60, where the physical is $24.

 

There's a ton of examples like that, and a ton of examples of the opposite.  In the indie scene in particular.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Dreakon13

[DrBloodmoney]

5 minutes ago, Dreakon13 said:

 

Right now if I wanted to buy a digital copy of Deathloop (and I didn't have PS+), it'd cost me $60 on PSN.  I recently bought a new sealed copy on eBay for $17.

 

Even taking secondhand out of the equation, on Best Buy right now a digital copy of Assassin's Creed Odyssey costs $60, where the physical is $24.

 

There's a ton of examples like that, and a ton of examples of the opposite.  In the indie scene in particular.

 

I guess... though I checked, and I bought AC Odyssey digitally years ago, for just under £16 - so I suppose it's just a matter of keeping on top of the sales, and striking while the iron is hot. The same could be said for Physical too, I suppose.

[Dreakon13]

6 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I guess... though I checked, and I bought AC Odyssey digitally years ago, for just under £16 - so I suppose it's just a matter of keeping on top of the sales, and striking while the iron is hot. The same could be said for Physical too, I suppose.

 

Well the beauty of physical, indies aside, is that you're not really at the mercy of PSN sales to get a deal.  Unless a physical is rare, the secondhand prices moderate themselves with sellers stepping over eachother for your business, even for older games within reason... so there's always a few copies out there within a few dollars of the lowest price.  Not to mention the value of being able to buy otherwise delisted games.

 

And FWIW, should physical ever go anywhere, taking the secondhand market out of the equation isn't exactly going to incentivize them to make better digital prices.  If anything it'll get worse because now you have no where else to go.  So we should all be fighting for the same righteous cause here.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Dreakon13

[virianna]

12 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I guess... though I checked, and I bought AC Odyssey digitally years ago, for just under £16 - so I suppose it's just a matter of keeping on top of the sales, and striking while the iron is hot. The same could be said for Physical too, I suppose.

Yes and no, while the physical games cost the same as digital games it is much easier to find a deal on a physical copy of the game, there might be a random sale in a random store, amazon randomly putting the game for half the price because yes, second-hand games that are usually quite cheap comparing to the "new games"

For reference, aforementioned AC Odyssey, new copy, on amazon is currently around 25 euro, which is most likely not the sale but lost value due to game "old". PSN still has it on full price. So idk man, I'd say that if i have an urge to play a given game now it's more likely i'll find it cheap in the box (even new, sealed), than i came across the sale.  

Edited September 20, 2022 by virianna

[Viper]

24 minutes ago, Dreakon13 said:

 

Right now if I wanted to buy a digital copy of Deathloop (and I didn't have PS+), it'd cost me $60 on PSN.  I recently bought a new sealed copy on eBay for $17.

 

Even taking secondhand out of the equation, on Best Buy right now a digital copy of Assassin's Creed Odyssey costs $60, where the physical is $24.

 

There's a ton of examples like that, and a ton of examples of the opposite.  In the indie scene in particular.

I just bought Returnal off of eBay brand new for $18...whereas, according to PSPrices, it's never fallen below $49.69 on the PS Store. Stuff like this is what I feared for this generation when games jumped to $70 for no reason, they won't fall to a reasonable prices digitally even after prolonged periods of time. That's not to say it's the case with everything...but Returnal is old enough now that it should have been below half price more than once at this point. 

 

Though nothing is really worse than Switch games right now. When finding a 5 year old game for $35 is considered a deal...there's a serious problem. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Viper

[janpham]

1 hour ago, The Alchemist said:

This is actually a very consumer-friendly move. For example, someone who wasn't well informed of the PSN Store's ludicrous pricing when they purchased their PS5 can now simply purchase an add-on drive. It gives people so many more options when purchasing their games. Well, that's assuming this new SKU is real. More options is always better than fewer options. 

 

I do wonder how much this add-on drive will end up costing. You have to remember there was a $100 difference between disc and digital PS5s at launch, so Sony was effectively charging $100 for a disc drive. Disc drives obviously don't cost anywhere near that much, so it will be interesting to see what happens. With that said, even something on the high-end like $100 is still going to be worth it for the long-term savings you'll make by switching to physical. 

 

Sony sold their first PS5 consoles at a loss and then you come into the room and say: "so Sony was effectively charging 100 USD for a disc drive.Disc drives obviously don't cost anywhere near that much" 

 

Hmm.............................

[DrBloodmoney]

13 minutes ago, Dreakon13 said:

 

Well the beauty of physical, indies aside, is that you're not really at the mercy of PSN sales to get a deal.  Unless a physical is rare, the secondhand prices moderate themselves with sellers stepping over eachother for your business, even for older games within reason... so there's always a few copies out there within a few dollars of the lowest price.  Not to mention the value of being able to buy otherwise delisted games.

 

And FWIW, should physical ever go anywhere, taking the secondhand market out of the equation isn't exactly going to incentivize them to make better digital prices.  If anything it'll get worse because now you have no where else to go.  So we should all be fighting for the same righteous cause here.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not digital only due to some aversion to physical, or some ethical or moral standpoint - it's purely fiscal - i've just never been in a position where I've seen physical discs as worth the price, when there are so many games in deep sales on the digital store all the time. 

 

I'm perfectly happy for Physical discs to continue to exist...

....though I don't think I'll ever really be comfortable with used games - that's a whole different kettle of fish.

 

I'm totally down with someone buying a physical game at a discount, as at least the developers are getting some of that money, and the discount is generally coming out of the retailer's end... ...but the idea of Game of Gamestation or one of those companies upselling a used copy, for like £5 less than a new copy - denying the developers any revenue for years of their work and risk, and instead taking nearly the entire profit, just for the effort of placing it on a rack with a sticker on it?

Nah.

Edited September 20, 2022 by DrBloodmoney

[Viper]

4 minutes ago, janpham said:

 

Sony sold their first PS5 consoles at a loss and then you come into the room and say: "so Sony was effectively charging 100 USD for a disc drive.Disc drives obviously don't cost anywhere near that much" 

 

Hmm.............................

He's not wrong. Consoles always sell at a loss because that's not where the money is...it's in game sales. But Sony literally charged us $100 for a disc drive that cost them mere pennies to install, these disc drives are one of the cheapest components on the console nowadays. There's absolutely no reason the Disc model PS5 couldn't have cost the same as the digital. They did it because they're literally hooking in the people that don't know any better, the people that think "well this has an extra thing, so it has to cost more". 

[Dreakon13]

14 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not digital only due to some aversion to physical, or some ethical or moral standpoint - it's purely fiscal - i've just never been in a position where I've seen physical discs as worth the price, when there are so many games in deep sales on the digital store all the time. 

 

I'm perfectly happy for Physical discs to continue to exist...

....though I don't think I'll ever really be comfortable with used games - that's a whole different kettle of fish.

 

I'm totally down with someone buying a physical game at a discount, as at least the developers are getting some of that money, and the discount is generally coming out of the retailer's end... ...but the idea of Game of Gamestation or one of those companies upselling a used copy, for like £5 less than a new copy - denying the developers any revenue for years of their work and risk, and instead taking nearly the entire profit, just for the effort of placing it on a rack with a sticker on it?

Nah.

 

Yeah, I'm with you.  I don't think I've ever walked out of Gamestop with a used copy of a game without having this gross feeling lingering over me the rest of the day lol.

 

I just look for deals on new, sealed games now.  Unless a used copy is just so much cheaper I can't pass up, and even then just for the less exciting (to me) games... and never from the big retailers.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Dreakon13

[Kefka1986]

I prefer physical games, but it's true most of my ps games are digital, each time there is a sale on the psn, you can find a lot of games with huge discounts and I'm weak... I don't know what to think about this new model, but I just hope that by the time this goes out, we will be able to buy just the ps5, without a pack including games I don't want to play, headphones I don't need, etc so I can value my options then.

[The Alchemist]

1 hour ago, DrBloodmoney said:

I know enough to know you aren’t trolling or anything, and I don’t know what physical prices are like in Ireland, but man… the only thing I thought reading this was “are you having a laugh?” ?

 

Physical cheaper than digital?
Where?

I fee like I’m regularly buying stuff at a 70-80% discount in the constant sales on the digital stores at dangerously cheap prices… and getting full “ultimate” editions with season passes etc for like half the price I see the base game selling for in physical stores around here! ?

 

Not to mention the fact that a lot of games only get physical versions via things like Limited Run Games - where people seem to be overpaying by absurd amounts for games relative to the digital versions.

 

I mean, don’t get me wrong - personally, I’d pay more for a digital copy of a game anyways (can’t scratch or lose a digital game…which is more of an issue in my house than it should be for discs with a kid around!)…

…but in all seriousness… I keep hearing about this price disparity that makes physical cheaper - yet my own experience seems to suggest the exact opposite 

 

With the exceptions of Ratchet & Clank (€40), GT7 25th Anniversary Edition (€90-ish) and Horizon Forbidden West Special Edition (€90-ish), I haven't paid more than €35 for a new physical PS5 game since launch day. Deathloop, Ghostwire, Sackboy, Guardians and many more I got for below €35 brand new. Now granted, I don't always buy games at launch, rarely in fact, hence the cheaper prices, but still even new physical games at launch are routinely €10-20 cheaper than their digital counterparts. I'm also finding that I'm picking up PS5 games far cheaper overall than PS4 games at the same point in both console's life cycles, despite all of the hullabaloo about a €10 increase for first-party games.

 

Indie games are a different story, as you've alluded to LRG and the likes. Many indie games don't see physical releases at all, or only in very limited runs and usually far, far later down the line after launch. In that case there is little you can do unless you use LRG, SRG, iam8bit and the likes. In those cases I will buy said games digitally, and if I can, physical down the line if I can grab a copy. But these types of games don't really come into the equation here, because you're talking about limited edition, usually numbered (and therefore very sought-after) games, not mass-produced retail games. It isn't fair to lump them in with regular games when discussing price differences between physical and digital. 

 

And I should note, because I don't want to be misunderstood, not all of my games are physical. I have many hundreds of digital games that I have bought over the years, far more than the amount of physical games I own. PSN sales can be great, and I often take advantage of them myself when I feel the need to. I just prefer physical and not only because of (in my experience) the large cost savings. I like owning physical media. I like collecting games. But by all means, the choice between digital and physical should always come down to a person's own budget and preference. 

 

Just now, janpham said:

 

Sony sold their first PS5 consoles at a loss and then you come into the room and say: "so Sony was effectively charging 100 USD for a disc drive.Disc drives obviously don't cost anywhere near that much" 

 

Hmm.............................

 

Only the digital PS5 was sold at a loss. The disc version PS5 started to turn a profit some time last year. And yes, the only difference between digital and disc PS5s is the disc drive. So why is there a $100 difference? Disc drives cost closer to $20-30, probably a lot less as they're being bought in such huge bulk. What are you confused about?

[virianna]

1 hour ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Physical cheaper than digital?
Where?

This is quite common where i live. Digital games are always more expensive on PSN probably due to the currency exchange PSN store set, there is always about 10 euro (after exchange) difference making physical games cheaper. It applies for both Sony published games and other publishers. I have yet to see a physical game that will match in price with PSN price. Could be a case for other european/eu countries with no euro (or outside of europe with no dollars i suppose?).

Some independent vidya game stores get addition couple bucks off by getting the supply from a different european country where, even with the currency exchange, they can get it cheaper so they don't have to charge the retail price. 

There is amazon with their random chance of price drop on release and preorder guarantee price where they charge you back the difference between price you had on your order and release date price, which also let me save a few bucks every now and again.

 

Speaking only about release price here, because after some time physical copies get graduately more cheap anyways (eg. ubisoft games lose their value after a month so there is no point in buying them on release, since the store put them on discount shortly after), while their digital counterpart is still at full price.
 

Edited September 20, 2022 by virianna

[janpham]

20 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

 

Only the digital PS5 was sold at a loss. The disc version PS5 started to turn a profit some time last year. And yes, the only difference between digital and disc PS5s is the disc drive. So why is there a $100 difference? Disc drives cost closer to $20-30, probably a lot less as they're being bought in such huge bulk. What are you confused about?

 

You are contradicting yourself in your first 2 sentences. Hmm... Can we just say, that the PS5 (Digital or Disc) is not expensive?

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by janpham

[The Alchemist]

17 minutes ago, janpham said:

 

You are contradicting yourself in your first 2 sentences. Hmm... Can we just say, that the PS5 (Digital or Disc) is not expensive?

 

 

Do you care to explain or are you just going to leave cryptic sentences from here out? Contradicting how? I said the disc version PS5 started to turn a profit some time last year. That doesn't mean it was sold at a loss before that. It was breaking even from the get-go pretty much. The digital PS5 was and likely still is being sold at a loss, which Sony doesn't care about, because it locks people in to the PSN Store ecosystem where they'll make far more money back in the long-term than they ever could from hardware. 

 

So... can we just say that there is zero reason to charge $100 for a disc drive? 

[janpham]

2 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

 

Do you care to explain or are you just going to leave cryptic sentences from here out? Contradicting how? I said the disc version PS5 started to turn a profit some time last year. That doesn't mean it was sold at a loss before that. It was breaking even from the get-go pretty much. The digital PS5 was and likely still is being sold at a loss, which Sony doesn't care about, because it locks people in to the PSN Store ecosystem where they'll make far more money back in the long-term than they ever could from hardware. 

 

So... can we just say that there is zero reason to charge $100 for a disc drive? 

 

So the solution for your problem is, that Sony sells at a loss. A PS5 Disc Version for the price of 399 USD.

[DaivRules]

3 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

So... can we just say that there is zero reason to charge $100 for a disc drive? 

 

$100 for a blu-ray drive isn't far off from what they're being charged for by themselves: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=internal+blu+ray+read+only+drives&i=electronics&crid=3UIX1JIWLVCYU
 

 

[The Alchemist]

Just now, janpham said:

So the solution for your problem is, that Sony sells at a loss. A PS5 Disc Version for the price of 399 USD.

 

Jesus Christ where have you been for the last 20 years? 9 times out of 10, consoles have ALWAYS been sold at a loss in the initial years of release. Console manufacturers make the bulk of their money from software and services, not hardware. 

3 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

 

$100 for a blu-ray drive isn't far off from what they're being charged for by themselves: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=internal+blu+ray+read+only+drives&i=electronics&crid=3UIX1JIWLVCYU
 

 

 

If you think Sony is paying anywhere close to $100 for every blu-ray drive they stick into their PS5s then I don't know what to tell you. 

[janpham]

1 minute ago, The Alchemist said:

 

Jesus Christ where have you been for the last 20 years? 9 times out of 10, consoles have ALWAYS been sold at a loss in the initial years of release. Console manufacturers make the bulk of their money from software and services, not hardware. 

 

SONY differentiate between loss and LOSS. 

[DaivRules]

6 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

If you think Sony is paying anywhere close to $100 for every blu-ray drive they stick into their PS5s then I don't know what to tell you. 

 

If you're picking right now to choose one component to start saying they should be charging closer to wholesale, I don't know what to tell you.

It looks like consumers already pay around $100 for the same drives you said:
 

16 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

So... can we just say that there is zero reason to charge $100 for a disc drive? 

 

So I just answered your question with at least one reason: People are already getting charged $100+ for the same type of drive Sony is charging $100 for. (All the extra materials for the disc version of the PS5 to accommodate that drive is just free bonus!)

 

[jgm4789]

9 hours ago, Viper said:

I just bought Returnal off of eBay brand new for $18...whereas, according to PSPrices, it's never fallen below $49.69 on the PS Store. Stuff like this is what I feared for this generation when games jumped to $70 for no reason, they won't fall to a reasonable prices digitally even after prolonged periods of time. That's not to say it's the case with everything...but Returnal is old enough now that it should have been below half price more than once at this point. 

 

Though nothing is really worse than Switch games right now. When finding a 5 year old game for $35 is considered a deal...there's a serious problem. 

Its even worse with a lot of koei tecmo games. Im aiming to aquire and plat all the gust rpgs but i rarely see then drop below 30$ digital nowadays and a lot of Atelier games especially hover around the 30-50 physically(a few are ridiculous like lulula which goes for hundreds) and a lot of them are almost a decade old. Thats a big reason i now try to support game stores as much as i can as i can imagine once gamestop finally dies digital sales will be severely nerfed and the lesser known game/geek stores that survive like second and charles, game exchange, and a ton of mom and pop stores probably wont drop prices as much because at that point physical will be too niche(even shady pawn shops aren't gonna be viable as i see quite a few cash america and goodwills selling badly beat up pokemon gameboy games for 90$)

[Sendai-Horatio]

8 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

 

If you think Sony is paying anywhere close to $100 for every blu-ray drive they stick into their PS5s then I don't know what to tell you. 

A lot of people are freaking out over the $100 price tag because of the recession

 

[Eraezr]

On 20/09/2022 at 0:07 PM, Raidou Kuzunoha XIV said:

At that point, I'll likely be checking out of modern (or at least console) gaming - I simply don't trust digital enough, especially not on consoles, to commit to full digital. The whole (temporary, but still) issue with digital PS3 and Vita games "expiring" earlier this year was another nail in that coffin for me.

 

Same. I couldn't believe I was thinking this after all the trials and tribulations in all these generations, but Jim Ryan's really dampening my investment in gaming. It wasn't just because it's PlayStation, it's because the platform brought a cutting cultural edge to gaming which the spaces of PCMR and Nintendo don't quite emulate. Which was why their How to Share PS4 Games is such a hallmark. Now so much of that is gone.

 

 

9 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

So... can we just say that there is zero reason to charge $100 for a disc drive? 

 

Richard from Digital Foundry said the UHD disc drive (from manufacturing cost) costed Sony approximately $18 USD at PS5's launch. There's no way that little component is worth even more than $30 now.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Eraezr

[Rally-Vincent---]

The first step towards making dics drives an "extra" instead of being the norm. As soon as something is additive, it is prone to be expendable if "not enough customers" ask for it - and someone is going to make exactly that claim in the foreseeable future.

[sepheroithisgod]

I've mostly bought digital games since the PS4 days. The moment I noticed that there wasn't a difference in file size between digital and physical, I quickly stuck with digital. for the most part, I don't really see any amazing deals on new physical games unless you are waiting for a week or two (not to say there are no deals).

 

But when you start to consider things like having to drive to the store to pick up the game or wait for it to be shipped the small difference in price is kinda worth it to me. It's also worth pointing out that in the State of Florida, there is no sales tax on PSN. Thus that alone means there needs to be a significant difference in price to overcome the gap that causes.

 

It's also worth pointing out that you are essentially buying two copies of a game when buying digital because you can game share. For example, if you have kids, partners, roommates, or friends, you could set up game-sharing to play these games together.

In my case, this makes digital the best choice, granted I will wait out some game sales as some of these games are overpriced, but I still think it's worth it for instant access to the game.

[TJ_Solo]

22 hours ago, Viper said:

He's not wrong. Consoles always sell at a loss because that's not where the money is...it's in game sales. But Sony literally charged us $100 for a disc drive that cost them mere pennies to install, these disc drives are one of the cheapest components on the console nowadays. There's absolutely no reason the Disc model PS5 couldn't have cost the same as the digital. They did it because they're literally hooking in the people that don't know any better, the people that think "well this has an extra thing, so it has to cost more". 

 

that is an old generalization that applies to Sony and Xbox but not Nintendo.

Well they charged us some markup for all the components in the consoles. That's how the business of retail works. You don't get parts at wholesale or discount as a retail consumer. By the time you can buy something, it has been marked up several times. Nothing to put Sony to the fire for when no company is selling you items for what it cost them to acquire or assemble.