Here's the name for this genre...

[DrBloodmoney]

2 minutes ago, Sunnyburrito said:

Your comments and replies have more effort put into them than these games I swear.

 

I'll repost in a day or two, and call it my Comment: Turbo ?

[DeepEyes7]

28 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I'll repost in a day or two, and call it my Comment: Turbo 

 

"Stroke my comment"

[Gommes_]

These games and the people who play them should be called out for. Every time. As it was mentioned, this hobby has some sort of ground rules. Sure, everyone has it's own boundaries or ideas of trophy hunting but these kind of trash games have nothing to do with that original hobby and of course people care about what others play.

 

First of all, this is a trophy site and secondly, most of the people around here have their trophy card in their signature! So, you want to be compared to others and and you want people to check out your profile for various reasons. Heck, this can lead to very interesting exchanges under "normal" conditions. A high number in % or number of platinums will make people click on your card but if it turns out that all of your games are trash, most people will know that you are into this hobby for the "wrong" reasons. No one takes these numbers seriously in a hobby where the community gave platinum trophies a value. You are the kind of people taking that value away or even worse, didn't even get that value in the first place.

 

Trophies always functioned as gatekeepers and if I am honest, it was always an elitist hobby. A hobby which some people never got and where they will never fit in, no matter how many trophies they buy.

[Gommes_]

11 minutes ago, DeadDexterous said:

 

Maybe they should advertise this statement before people sign up to PSN Profiles.

 

 

They should ?

[HusKy]

12 hours ago, steel6burgh said:

And to think the trophy hunting site could shut this shovelware bullshit down in a minute if they all quit tracking and awarding points for them.

 

Yep, but this is a well oiled machine that won't be stopped until Sony steps in...

 

It's a combination of:

1. Sony's non-existent quality control
2. "Developers" that use the loophole
3. Gamers that are willing to buy trophies
4. YouTube channels that promote this garbage
5. This and other websites that passively promote it

[TheBlaskar]

Shameware is apt af

[BlueDragonZero]

I know these topics pop up every week but as I only recently signed up I haven't expressed my opinion. Also I'm pretty bad with expressing my thoughts into words so this may be a bit of a mess and I'm sure I've missed some sort of context somewhere. but here goes. 

 

Let's face it, this specific type of shovelware is shit. They are designed to exploit the trophy system to its lowest common denominator as well as barely meeting the requirement to actually be called a game. It’s incredibly sad that they are actually a thing. 

 

I get why people would be upset with them as they devalue the system as a whole but the reality is the only way these games are going to stop being made is if somehow everyone agrees to stop buying and playing these games or if Sony steps in. Neither of which seem likely to happen. Sure there are thing's this site and others could do but at this point it would mostly be no more then a 'delaying' tactic. 

 

Saying that though, they are the inevitable conclusion when the system they are exploiting is as flawed as the trophy system. The system itself is based on this vague concept of ‘more is better’ with the slight caveat of more ‘platinum's is also better’. Which is why this site leaderboards and most others use the points system that they do as its the easiest. Tbf While there was an attempt to have it differentiate itself from a simple pure number system with the different types of trophies(bronze, silver, gold) without any sort of 'quality control’ they too have become essentially pointless(lol pun) as well. 

So between these games, system/region stacking, autopoping, team accounts, no effective way to differentiate between individual trophies, Sony not caring and whatever else I've missed are going to make it almost impossible to have any sort of ‘competitiveness’ to trophies other than time. 

 

So no these games haven’t ruined trophy hunting as it’s a largely pointless term to express any sort of objective value to begin with. What they have done is ruin your perception of what trophy hunting is. Ultimately whether or not you think a trophy list is impressive or not will come down to you and you alone. 

Not everyone enjoys collecting trophies for the same reasons. 

 

So if people want to play these games as they get some sort of enjoyment out of it. Let them. 

If you see a list with them then on. Ignore it. 

 

Expressing an opinion is one thing but to those that are actively attacking and condemning people for it. Your actions say way more about you as a person then anything a few shitty games say and I will judge you way more negatively than them even if you somehow had the objectively greatest trophy list of all time. Not that my opinion actually matters.

[VoidVictorious]

7 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I'm genuinely thinking about it, and I can't honestly recall any situation in which shaming people for partaking in a practice has been a successful path to discouraging it.

 

Maybe drink driving? ?

That's the closest I can reasonably think of, but even then - that took decades to become as shunned and scorned as it is now - and it's still a problem anyways - just not quite as much as it once was.

 

 

If people really do want to discourage folks from feeling like they "need" to play this kind of vapourware, (and some do,) I really don't think shunning /scorning / shaming them is the answer, nor do I think you're going to have much luck with attacking people (or the developers) constantly in forums like this one.

Taking that kind of approach only places people in a defensive and combative position - a "Fuck You - I'll play what I want!" mentality...

...and honestly, not an unwarranted one.

Shaming as a "gatekeeping tool" rarely results in a healthy community.

 

 

If people really do want to discourage engagement with these games:

 

• Give rep for folks posting about good games!
• Discuss good games at length!
• Encourage folks to try good games you loved, and give them some help and pointers to get started.
• Don't look down on an Easy-but-Quality game, and don't only recommend Hard-as-Nails games to people.
• If you see someone playing a game you loved - talk about it with them... 
• ...and if you see someone playing silly vapourware game like these ones, don't look down your nose at them - if you engage, engage positively! Maybe recommend a good, easier game they might like, and could be a gateway out of the cycle.

 

• Don't look down on someone for giving a good game the old collage try, and not managing to platinum it - Don't value completion percentage on a profile, over variety and quality.
• Don't encourage Leaderboard Ranking to be a valuable metric - there's so much more to trophy hunting - and to gaming - than a points total!
• Don't continue to propagate this insidious notion that a high completion percentage is the be-all-and-end-all of a quality profile - let people try harder games and FAIL, without feeling bad about it. Trying is good, and failing is noble if you did.

 

 

Making people feel like they are "outsiders", "poisoning" the community will ONLY push them away, and entrench and bolster their current views and resolve.

It only cements difference.

This is a community - and making people feel included, and a part of it is far more likely to shift opinion as a collective.

 

 

 

To a large extent, these kind of games only exist as direct result of some of the gatekeeping elements we ourselves created in the trophy hunting community in the early days.

The focus on completion percentages.

The focus on Leaderboard positions.

The focus on getting through games fast, and racking up completions.

 

"Shaming" folks who didn't measure up in those areas pushed more and more to quicker, easier games. It created the perfect fecund ground for these kind of games to grow.

 

 

When a problem is born out of a particular behaviour or attitude in a community - you can't solve it by doubling down on that same behaviour.

You have to look at the root causes, and address those.

 

A lot of good things have been said in this comment, but I want to reiterate that we need to devote our energy to outside media sources if we want to see these “games” stop being published. No one asked for these games, but as soon as the first one appeared and someone bought it, whatever publisher or developer made that game knew they were sitting on a gold mine. As long as people continue to buy these games, they will continue being made. We cannot shame people into spending their money differently, but we can utilize things like Twitter, YouTube, and various external connections to try and prevent them from being available to buy. We can create endless threads on a daily basis, but as you can see it isn’t helping.

Edited October 10, 2022 by VoidVictorious

[ARIXANDRE]

I am of the mind that people can play whatever they want.

 

With that being said, these games feed into an OCD-driven loop for trophy hunters with that kind o disposition, and you know the developers know that. 

[StilRh]

In defence of Rat platinums, they are nice indie games. The platinum requirements were mega lowballed but they did require some understanding of mechanics and time investment. Trophies aside, I used to spend a lot of time looking at lesser known indie games on the store but since the store updates and the flood of shovelware it's been hard to have discovery rewarded on PSN. This also happened to the MS, nintendo and steam storefronts and I (I imagine indie devs also) hate the lack of curation.

[ARIXANDRE]

7 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I'm genuinely thinking about it, and I can't honestly recall any situation in which shaming people for partaking in a practice has been a successful path to discouraging it.

 

Maybe drink driving?

That's the closest I can reasonably think of, but even then - that took decades to become as shunned and scorned as it is now - and it's still a problem anyways - just not quite as much as it once was.

 

 

If people really do want to discourage folks from feeling like they "need" to play this kind of vapourware, (and some do,) I really don't think shunning /scorning / shaming them is the answer, nor do I think you're going to have much luck with attacking people (or the developers) constantly in forums like this one.

Taking that kind of approach only places people in a defensive and combative position - a "Fuck You - I'll play what I want!" mentality...

...and honestly, not an unwarranted one.

Shaming as a "gatekeeping tool" rarely results in a healthy community.

 

 

If people really do want to discourage engagement with these games:

 

• Give rep for folks posting about good games!
• Discuss good games at length!
• Encourage folks to try good games you loved, and give them some help and pointers to get started.
• Don't look down on an Easy-but-Quality game, and don't only recommend Hard-as-Nails games to people.
• If you see someone playing a game you loved - talk about it with them... 
• ...and if you see someone playing silly vapourware game like these ones, don't look down your nose at them - if you engage, engage positively! Maybe recommend a good, easier game they might like, and could be a gateway out of the cycle.

 

• Don't look down on someone for giving a good game the old collage try, and not managing to platinum it - Don't value completion percentage on a profile, over variety and quality.
• Don't encourage Leaderboard Ranking to be a valuable metric - there's so much more to trophy hunting - and to gaming - than a points total!
• Don't continue to propagate this insidious notion that a high completion percentage is the be-all-and-end-all of a quality profile - let people try harder games and FAIL, without feeling bad about it. Trying is good, and failing is noble if you did.

 

 

Making people feel like they are "outsiders", "poisoning" the community will ONLY push them away, and entrench and bolster their current views and resolve.

It only cements difference.

This is a community - and making people feel included, and a part of it is far more likely to shift opinion as a collective.

 

 

 

To a large extent, these kind of games only exist as direct result of some of the gatekeeping elements we ourselves created in the trophy hunting community in the early days.

The focus on completion percentages.

The focus on Leaderboard positions.

The focus on getting through games fast, and racking up completions.

 

"Shaming" folks who didn't measure up in those areas pushed more and more to quicker, easier games. It created the perfect fecund ground for these kind of games to grow.

 

 

When a problem is born out of a particular behaviour or attitude in a community - you can't solve it by doubling down on that same behaviour.

You have to look at the root causes, and address those.

 

 This is the best comment I've read in years regarding trophy hunting culture. 

 

Playstation itself does not have leaderboards for us to be bickering about who has the rarest trophies or the fastest platinums. 

 

There is a greater discourse here that @DrBloodmoney has already covered but we know these "games" are just here to stay.

[DeepEyes7]

1 minute ago, StilRh said:

In defence of Rat platinums, they are nice indie games. The platinum requirements were mega lowballed but they did require some understanding of mechanics and time investment. Trophies aside, I used to spend a lot of time looking at lesser known indie games on the store but since the store updates and the flood of shovelware it's been hard to have discovery rewarded on PSN. This also happened to the MS, nintendo and steam storefronts and I (I imagine indie devs also) hate the lack of curation.

 

On sales I used to check all the games because there was some hidden gems there at a very good price, nowadays is so boring to find something between the flood of this games. The small indies developers are losing too for sure.

[Long-Ryde]

Some of the "shovelware" games are actually really fun experiences IMO. There are quite a few Ratalaika games and such that I really enjoyed playing (Inksplosion, and League of Evil to name a couple), even if they were a bit short in terms of the hours needed to platinum. I also just started one of those POWGI word games, and found it fun to play in between games, solve a puzzle here and there.

 

I do think it's objectively lame for the developers to essentially cash in on brain dead platinums by pumping out asset swap variations of games, period. It's almost never a good thing, let alone with super simple games like this, but there's clearly a market and they're just taking advantage of it.

 

I'll personally never drop money on them because I don't think holding the cross button for 4 minutes is fun, trophies or not -- but all of that is relative! If someone wants to play something like this, I personally don't care because I know I wouldn't want to spend my time that way. At the end of the day, no one is robbing you of your personal gaming achievements by playing these games, unless of course, you're hyper-focused on leaderboard activity  

 

Since we're a community of trophy hunters, we're going to care when something comes along that's flatout bogus, or feels like we're being taken advantage of, but that's true in literally any hobby.

 

Although it's useless to say, I wish people would stop buying into them so they'd stop making them because I hate seeing 14 versions of the same game plague the "New Trophy Lists" for days.

 

 

 

 

 

[TomataEighty9]

On 9.10.2022 at 10:42 PM, Helyx said:

 

Imagine caring what someone else thinks of your hobby.

 

You just "wasted" time, replying to a post, about caring about what others think about what others do as a "hobby". Now that's META ?

 

You apparently care about what the OP cares about, what others care about ?

[Darling Baphomet]

22 hours ago, Deadly_Ha_Ha said:

Here's a list of reasons why rarity is not equal to difficulty:

 

1. There are EZPZ URs

2. I'm bad at games and can't admit that a game which isn't actually difficult, hence its plat % being high, is really just hard for me in particular

3. There are just grindy URs that simply reward people with excessive free time

 

There are EZPZ URs, and I'm rather ashamed to have one on my profile from my time in team trophy hunting events, but even the easiest URs are still magnitudes harder than any 80-90% platinum. Rarity is not and will never be a direct parallel to difficulty, but it does correlate.

 

I would also argue that grindiness is a form of difficulty in that it requires extra commitment and dedication from a player. I don't believe skill is the only meaningful form of effort worth measuring - the people who put 200 hours into a JRPG's ridiculous completion requirements deserve recognition as much as the person who breezes through a short but brutally hard platinum like Superhot VR. Saying "I put 1000 hours into platinuming Torchlight 3" might not be as flashy as saying "I managed to get all of Super Meat Boy's no death trophies", but it's undeniable that there's extreme commitment involved in both cases.

 

5 hours ago, BlueDragonZero said:

So no these games haven’t ruined trophy hunting as it’s a largely pointless term to express any sort of objective value to begin with. What they have done is ruin your perception of what trophy hunting is. Ultimately whether or not you think a trophy list is impressive or not will come down to you and you alone. 

Not everyone enjoys collecting trophies for the same reasons. 

 

Yeah, tell that to my team of 5 people from the August 2020 tag team event who spent a month playing hard games just to get beaten by teams carried by a single shovelware spammer. I see no point in trying to reduce "trophy hunting" into some abstract drivel detached from the experiences of actual people in the trophy hunting community. The prominence of shovelware spammers has negatively affected the trophy hunting community and its members through devaluing the work of legit trophy hunters in events and in the leaderboards.

 

12 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

To a large extent, these kind of games only exist as direct result of some of the gatekeeping elements we ourselves created in the trophy hunting community in the early days.

The focus on completion percentages.

The focus on Leaderboard positions.

The focus on getting through games fast, and racking up completions.

 

I've made this point to you before, but leaderboards are no more gatekeeping than scoreboards in an FPS game is. And wanting to maintain the quality of a leaderboard is not gatekeeping, it's quality control. The idea that people who value competition are responsible for cheaters is absurd. Trophy hunters are no more at fault for shovelware spam than people who play games fairly are responsible for the existence of hackers.

 

Anytime there's a competition, there'll be people who want to win that competition through cheating because they're not willing to put in the effort to actually do well normally. If you want to argue that competitions shouldn't be a thing, well... maybe there's a christian talk show host who'll hear you out.

[steel6burgh]

6 hours ago, DeadDexterous said:

ean I would have definitely benefitted from a welcome pack outlining the ideologies...

 

You can play games. But not those games.

You can earn trophies. But not those trophies.

You can climb the leaderboard. Only earning trophies we decide are acceptable.

You can talk about trophies. But only trophies for games we want to talk about.

 

Anyway I'm done commenting here.

Like I said I fully understand everyone's issue with the current trophy & store situation.

 

But with some of the attitudes here towards people playing these games. Your hardly likely to convince any of them to even engage in a conversation with you let alone stop them buying these games.

in the beginning and for the most part now people aren't badgering people who play those games.  People are badgering the games themselves and the people making them, Sony for Allowing them, This website for rewarding them.  I have never seen anybody go out and attack somebody for playing them.  What does happen though is people who play them engage in these threads with all their unreasonable and poorly though out excuses for why they engage in this side of the hobby and they are met with debate and critique.  eventually they get mad and say they are being attacked when in reality they engaged theirselves in a loosing debate they can't possibly win.  They can't possibly win the debate because their arguments are so unreasonable.  

 

Maybe supporters of these game types would serve their purpose more efficiently  by starting a thread about what a great addition shovelware games are to gaming.  List reasons they benefit the average gamer.  Give examples of how they improved their life, examples of hidden jumping hotdog gems we all may be missing out on.   Ways in which these games improve Sony's image and the store front.   Problem is they can't list anything positive about those games besides they're fast platinums.  They can't even tell you the games are good.  They couldn't list one reward one of these game received. 

 

Nobody does any of that, instead they come on our threads and argue with us and get all mad when we don't buy the reasoning behind it.

[Long-Ryde]

20 hours ago, Lorabella said:

I would like to add to the discussion that these games are bad not just because of the impact on the trophy hunting community, but because the flood of these "shameware" games is actually going to hurt other indie developers in the long term.

The enormous amount of these games taking up space in the online store means that smaller indie games get lost amongst them. This means that the average casual gamer who might have considered trying out a cheap indie game is just going to see all these rubbish games and miss out on those little gems. This hurts the sales for indie devs who might have spent years trying to create one little game they're proud of.

 

 

DUDE! This is a fact. I'm a major fan of indie games, but once the cheap or on sale indie games started to be plagued with all of the shovelware games, it became insanely tedious to navigate lists of games and having to discern between what's a legitimate indie title and what's shovelware. That shit (plus a massive backlog) made me quit looking hard for indie games in the store.

[Camokidd87]

These games made me quit trophy hunting. I played alot of fantastic games and i played alot of shit games. I reached 16 on usa leaderboard and then the cheap sholverware became so overloaded that i just quit. It really made me realize that theres no point in competing on the leaderboards because the only way you can keep up is if you buy everyone single one of these crap cash for trophies games from every single region in a daily basis.  And i did for a while. Theyre not even games its just trading cash for trophies that require no effort. For the amount of money i paid for this dog shit i could of enjoyed every AAA game i could of wanted. It was fun getting points and climbing the ranks but these crap games that arent even games have completely ruined it. I quit cold turkey and im never going back. I had more fun playing farcry and muramasa the past 2 weeks than i did getting 2k plats in the past year. But whats done is done. Either it was going to be pour money down the drain every day of my life to see a number next to my name on a website or go back to enjoying real games. Im just happy that i broke the habit and went back to just playing games i enjoy. The point system is completely pay to win now. And its honestly unfair that someone could spend 3 months completeing a fantastic challenging game and some 3 year old could buy a sheep game and get more points in 4 seconds. I regret getting sucked into it but im happy im out. 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Camokidd87

[DrBloodmoney]

3 minutes ago, Camokidd87 said:

These games made me quit trophy hunting. I played alot of fantastic games and i played alot of shit games. I reached 16 on usa leaderboard and then the cheap sholverware became so overloaded that i just quit. It really made me realize that theres no point in competing on the leaderboards because the only way you can keep up is if you buy everyone single one of these crap cash for trophies games from every single region in a daily basis.  And i did for a while. Theyre not even games its just trading cash for trophies that require no effort. For the amount of money i paid for this dog shit i could of enjoyed every AAA game i could of wanted. It was fun getting points and climbing the ranks but these crap games that arent even games have completely ruined it. I quit cold turkey and im never going back. I had more fun playing farcry and muramasa the past 2 weeks than i did getting 2k plats in the past year. But whats done is done. Either it was going to be pour money down the drain every day of my life to see a number next to my name on a website or go back to enjoying real games. Im just happy that i broke the habit and went back to just playing games i enjoy. The point system is completely pay to win now. And its honestly unfair that someone could spend 3 months completeing a fantastic challenging game and some 3 year old could buy a sheep game and get more points in 4 seconds. I regret getting sucked into it but im happy im out. 

That’s great man!

 

I don’t know Muramasa myself, but Far Cry 4 is a good one - I went back and had a blast on it not that long ago and it still holds up - my favourite of the series, for sure that map is ace, and Pagan Min is a hell of a villain! ?

[Letenko]

12 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I'm genuinely thinking about it, and I can't honestly recall any situation in which shaming people for partaking in a practice has been a successful path to discouraging it.

 

Maybe drink driving? ?

That's the closest I can reasonably think of, but even then - that took decades to become as shunned and scorned as it is now - and it's still a problem anyways - just not quite as much as it once was.

 

 

If people really do want to discourage folks from feeling like they "need" to play this kind of vapourware, (and some do,) I really don't think shunning /scorning / shaming them is the answer, nor do I think you're going to have much luck with attacking people (or the developers) constantly in forums like this one.

Taking that kind of approach only places people in a defensive and combative position - a "Fuck You - I'll play what I want!" mentality...

...and honestly, not an unwarranted one.

Shaming as a "gatekeeping tool" rarely results in a healthy community.

 

 

If people really do want to discourage engagement with these games:

 

• Give rep for folks posting about good games!
• Discuss good games at length!
• Encourage folks to try good games you loved, and give them some help and pointers to get started.
• Don't look down on an Easy-but-Quality game, and don't only recommend Hard-as-Nails games to people.
• If you see someone playing a game you loved - talk about it with them... 
• ...and if you see someone playing silly vapourware game like these ones, don't look down your nose at them - if you engage, engage positively! Maybe recommend a good, easier game they might like, and could be a gateway out of the cycle.

 

• Don't look down on someone for giving a good game the old collage try, and not managing to platinum it - Don't value completion percentage on a profile, over variety and quality.
• Don't encourage Leaderboard Ranking to be a valuable metric - there's so much more to trophy hunting - and to gaming - than a points total!
• Don't continue to propagate this insidious notion that a high completion percentage is the be-all-and-end-all of a quality profile - let people try harder games and FAIL, without feeling bad about it. Trying is good, and failing is noble if you did.

 

 

Making people feel like they are "outsiders", "poisoning" the community will ONLY push them away, and entrench and bolster their current views and resolve.

It only cements difference.

This is a community - and making people feel included, and a part of it is far more likely to shift opinion as a collective.

 

 

 

To a large extent, these kind of games only exist as direct result of some of the gatekeeping elements we ourselves created in the trophy hunting community in the early days.

The focus on completion percentages.

The focus on Leaderboard positions.

The focus on getting through games fast, and racking up completions.

 

"Shaming" folks who didn't measure up in those areas pushed more and more to quicker, easier games. It created the perfect fecund ground for these kind of games to grow.

 

 

When a problem is born out of a particular behaviour or attitude in a community - you can't solve it by doubling down on that same behaviour.

You have to look at the root causes, and address those.

 

I unfortunately agree with basically everything you wrote.

 

The way I look at it, shaming these games and the people that play them is the only "power" people goong against this have. That includes me. Voting with your wallet is of course the best and only effective way of dealing with these pieces of shit, however that has clearly proven not to be enough and people who want the number of platinums to "mean something" don't have much recourse, so it has resorted to this.

 

It's honestly a sad state of affairs that the community is divided like this.

[Breakingthegreen]

44 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

 

There are EZPZ URs, and I'm rather ashamed to have one on my profile from my time in team trophy hunting events, but even the easiest URs are still magnitudes harder than any 80-90% platinum. Rarity is not and will never be a direct parallel to difficulty, but it does correlate.

I'm curious as to what an "EZPZ Ultra rare" game is, I have 13 URs and I'd say I found 3 of them to be easy (Playstation Move Heroes, Iron Man VR and somewhat Everybody's Golf) but I wouldn't call them EZPZ.

On a differing note, I have games above 80% platted rate, that I wouldn't label as "EZPZ" like Jazzpunk and Donut County.

[TomataEighty9]

33 minutes ago, Camokidd87 said:

These games made me quit trophy hunting. I played alot of fantastic games and i played alot of shit games. I reached 16 on usa leaderboard and then the cheap sholverware became so overloaded that i just quit. It really made me realize that theres no point in competing on the leaderboards because the only way you can keep up is if you buy everyone single one of these crap cash for trophies games from every single region in a daily basis.  And i did for a while. Theyre not even games its just trading cash for trophies that require no effort. For the amount of money i paid for this dog shit i could of enjoyed every AAA game i could of wanted. It was fun getting points and climbing the ranks but these crap games that arent even games have completely ruined it. I quit cold turkey and im never going back. I had more fun playing farcry and muramasa the past 2 weeks than i did getting 2k plats in the past year. But whats done is done. Either it was going to be pour money down the drain every day of my life to see a number next to my name on a website or go back to enjoying real games. Im just happy that i broke the habit and went back to just playing games i enjoy. The point system is completely pay to win now. And its honestly unfair that someone could spend 3 months completeing a fantastic challenging game and some 3 year old could buy a sheep game and get more points in 4 seconds. I regret getting sucked into it but im happy im out. 

 

I feel this. 

 

I've never been a trophy hunter as such. I always just played what i wanted, but i've been addicted to getting trophies. 

 

Luckily i never got into the shitty EZPZ "games", and now i just do games and plats i really like and want

 

No hate on people who wanna do the EZPZ road. Whatever makes you happy  

[mega-tallica]

It's like groundhog day with these threads about these games.

 

It's literally all the same people falling on one side of the debate or the other making the same arguments in every one. 

 

And round and round we go. 

[steel6burgh]

21 minutes ago, DeadDexterous said:

How is anyone going to reach and convince Playstation users to collectively stop buying these games if the first thing they see is people calling their account names, disrespecting their trophies & saying they should be called out as people? There's nothing productive can come from the current approach.

just so we're clear did someone call you out and personally disrespect your trophies and call you out personally?  Or did you happen onto a thread that has a negative outlook about the types of games you choose to play and you got offended?  There is a big difference.

Edited October 10, 2022 by steel6burgh

[MonaSaxPayne]

54 minutes ago, steel6burgh said:

in the beginning and for the most part now people aren't badgering people who play those games.  People are badgering the games themselves and the people making them, Sony for Allowing them, This website for rewarding them.  I have never seen anybody go out and attack somebody for playing them.  What does happen though is people who play them engage in these threads with all their unreasonable and poorly though out excuses for why they engage in this side of the hobby and they are met with debate and critique.  eventually they get mad and say they are being attacked when in reality they engaged theirselves in a loosing debate they can't possibly win.  They can't possibly win the debate because their arguments are so unreasonable.  

 

Maybe supporters of these game types would serve their purpose more efficiently  by starting a thread about what a great addition shovelware games are to gaming.  List reasons they benefit the average gamer.  Give examples of how they improved their life, examples of hidden jumping hotdog gems we all may be missing out on.   Ways in which these games improve Sony's image and the store front.   Problem is they can't list anything positive about those games besides they're fast platinums.  They can't even tell you the games are good.  They couldn't list one reward one of these game received. 

 

Nobody does any of that, instead they come on our threads and argue with us and get all mad when we don't buy the reasoning behind it.

 

this simply isn't true

 

very recently, in some other thread that has since been deleted, 2 different ppl who play these "shovelware" games said that they play it because:

1. they want to compete on the leaderboard and the only way to effectively compete is to play them 

2. they actually enjoy them

 

a LOT of ppl immediately started telling them that they were lying and the games are shit and there is nothing to enjoy. which is absurd. just because 1 person doesn't enjoy something doesn't mean that someone else can't

 

I've also seen MANY times that @tonkie18 will make a post about something random, and someone else will just derail whatever she was talking about by personally attacking the types of games she has played... there was also a big thread about this that has since been deleted or locked I think

 

maybe YOU don't personally attack ppl who play these types of games.. but it happens a lot 

 

lastly, why do u and so many others feel that ppl need to justify to u why they play what they play?