Digital Foundry: Why the return of 30fps console games is inevitable

[Slava 4,028]

https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2022-why-the-return-of-30fps-console-games-is-inevitable

 

Around the time Gotham Knights and A Plague Tale: Requiem came out, the "Performance vs quality" discussion was raised once again. The reason - both games are targeting 30fps on the current gen consoles. No performance option. Richard Leadbetter of Digital Foundry wrote a feature for Eurogamer where he shared his take and looked a little bit forward. Basically, he expects more 30fps titles in the future.

 

Quote

The question is why this brace of titles do not support this option and whether it signifies the beginning of the end of 60fps as a standard for console gaming.

 

It's a tricky question to answer, but ultimately, I feel it is inevitable that the proliferation of 60fps support will slack off significantly - not least because so many titles are looking to tap into the full array of features offered by Epic's Unreal Engine 5, which sets the stage for a new 3D rendering paradigm. We've already had our first taste of the kind of fidelity UE5 offers thanks to last year's phenomenal demo - The Matrix Awakens - based on an early rendition of the engine's features. Lumen, tapping into hardware-accelerated ray tracing features, delivers an astonishingly realistic lighting solution, while Nanite offers a level of geometric detail in excess of traditional rendering.

 

Quote

(...) as the generation continues, if a game is to support 60fps, it needs to be baked into the design and accounted for in a way that doesn't necessarily apply to the games we've played on PS5 and Xbox Series to date.

 

Why we've seen a proliferation of 60fps and 120fps game modes over the last couple of years is largely down to a cross-generation console development period of unprecedented length. A combination of a vast installed base of last-gen machines, along with their architectural similarities to the new wave of machines has given developers and publishers the means to create games for console old and new in tandem, as opposed to farming out sub-par ports for older machines - as has happened in prior console transitional periods.

 

Further in the arcticle, he mentioned Gotham Knights and A Plague Tale: Requiem. He stated that Gotham Knights is "not the best example of why a transition to 30fps console gaming may be coming" as the game has issues even on the best possible PC hardware. A Plague Tale: Requiem, on the other hand, may be actually pushing the hardware limits (CPU in particular) with its features like hundreds of rats on the screen.

 

He also talked about the prospect of using the 40fps mode as a "Performance mode" on 120Hz displays in the future. Apparently, A Plague Tale: Requiem supports that mode too.

 

____

 

I was actually thinking about this a couple of days ago. UE5 is coming. The new tech and features are coming. A game that looks like that Matrix demo will probably not have a separate 60fps mode because it's going to be too different, almost like a separate version of the game. So developers will have to choose between pushing the boundaries of the hardware with new tech and the frames. I assume, a developer like PlatinumGames will aim for 60fps in their next hack-and-slash game and act like Ray-Tracing never happened, but a late gen Naughty Dog game will probably run at 30, just as TLOU2 and TLOU1 did at the end of the respective console cycles. Some other first-party AAA games as well - same thing as usual.

 

What do you think? Will most games still have a 60fps mode at the end of the PS5 gen anyway? Are people too used to high framerates as the result of this unusually long "launch window"?

Edited October 27, 2022 by Slava

[HuntingFever 8,539]

I've only ever played most of my games at 30fps but that's enough for me since I'm happy with my current last gen consoles and have no interest or desire in upgrading to a next gen model. Also, I'm one of those people who literally can't tell the difference between 30 and 60fps so having to stick to 30, makes no difference to me.

Edited November 4, 2022 by HuntingFever
Update.

[DrZero_1983 1,523]

Me still trying to understand the difference between 30fps and 60fps:

 

[iriihutoR84 777]

Get used to it, buy a monster PC or miss out on some of the best games. Those are the options. Fast paced genres that benefit more from a smoother framerate will obviously get 60fps options as they generally have.

[Phantochi 1,963]

I find 30 FPS much easier to deal with than 60 FPS with bad frame timing, for some reason, and it doesn't really bother me since i regularly play on 15+ year old consoles.

Also, most people can't actually tell, just say it's 60 to someone and they'll believe you.

[DrBloodmoney 24,540]

It'll always matter more or less depending on the game really.

 

I'd generally chose framerate over graphics if given the option, but how much it matters is really down to the specific situation. 

Racing, Fighting, hack-n-slash and FPS you really feel the difference... 

...open world 3rd person, or more Immersive Sim 1st person stuff I personally don't see too much disparity, but would still err on the side of "performance" modes over "Graphics"...  

...but then some smaller indie games, I do sometimes find myself wondering "what's the point in asking me whether I want Performance or Graphics - it's immaterial" 😂

 

Solid 60 is great, obviously, but TBH, I'll take a nice solid, steady 30 over a meandering 45-60... and I'm not 100% I've actually seen any 120Hz - or if I have, if I've even got the visual palate to notice if that went down to 60hz! 

 

As long as the game devs are targeting the best option for their game, I'm happy enough. 

Edited October 27, 2022 by DrBloodmoney

[SnowxSakura 6,661]

9 minutes ago, DrZero_1983 said:

Me still trying to understand the difference between 30fps and 60fps:

 

It is very noticeable when you can switch between quality and performance on games. 30 FPS is choppy compared to 60 fps

[Seamndel 41]

In other news: the sky is blue.

[mega-tallica 650]

I've been gaming for a long time and when I grew up, 30fps was the standard and I've grown very accustomed to 30fps in video games and I think it's perfectly acceptable to have a game at 30fps in this day and age as the benchmark. Almost all the best games I've ever played were only 30fps and that's totally fine by me. 

 

60fps, while being a nice thing to have, I don't see it as something that's absolutely necessary to have for most games. For faster paced games like high-action FPS's and racing games, 60fps would definitely improve the gameplay and experience but for most other games like Gotham Knights or God of War even that are more moderately paced, I just don't see how 60fps would directly improve those games anything beyond slightly. Gotham Knights is not the greatest game in the world and it's not because it's only 30fps, nor would it being 60fps magically make it a better game. Ragnarok will give players the option to play at a multitude of different performance settings and whether you play it at the 30fps mode or 60fps mode or 120fps mode, it's going to be a good experience regardless of what mode you play it in because the game itself, safe to assume, is going to be extremely good. 

 

When it comes to performance and graphics, I think we're at the point where we're really pulling hairs. Minor discrepancies are now viewed as much bigger issues. How blades of grass move when your character walks in it and how well the water looks are now actual topics being discussed about modern video games. Those things, as minor as they are to me, now matter and matter a lot to many people. The aesthetics of a game now mean almost as much as the game itself does, it definitely was not always this way and the industry has definitely shifted to accommodate these new expectations. Graphics and performance are improving gradually but not fast enough to meet the current demand and expectations of the player base. So naturally when the industry is seeing a reversion back to a 30fps standard, it's going to be met with quite a bit of backlash. Even if this reversion means getting better graphics at the hands of a better engine and ultimately better games down the road, some people aren't going to accept the sacrifice of their precious framerate to make it happen, even if it is only temporary. 

[Tsundokuist 230]

16 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

It is very noticeable when you can switch between quality and performance on games. 30 FPS is choppy compared to 60 fps

We must be a different species when it comes to vision/processing speed. I’ve literally never noticed it, I’ve starred at the Performance vs Resolution/Quality modes in games like HFW and GT7 like a baby mesmerised by jiggling keys and while the resolution jump is easy to see, the frame rate I never notice a difference in at all.

 

I mean, sure, I understand the concept and can spot when a frame rate is choppy (i.e. a 30fps game drops below 20fps for a second - looking at you SFV - and I’m sure that’s a lot more of an eyesore than when a 60fps game drops to 50fps) but when it’s a smooth/consistent framerate I may as well flip a coin to tell you what’s 60fps and what’s 30fps.

[Skurkitty 732]

God of War is setting the proper precedence. 4 different game modes, literally something for everyone on any screen of choice. Every single other Dev should take notice and follow suit... but they won't.

 

I believe the standard (once PS4 is discarded... any day now I hope) for PS5 will be:

4k 30FPS - 1080p 60FPS

However if we get a PS5 Pro, I think GoW wider range of options will becomes very close to standard. That being:

4k 40FPS - 1080p 120FPS

 

People keep saying "I'm used to 30fps, it's fine". No it's not, stop selling yourself short. It's 2022/2023, you deserve better. PCs are going 244FPS+. You are accepting LESS than 15% of that, your PS5 is capable of 120fps, Ragnarok, Dirt, R6 Siege, CoD, etc etc, they're all showing you that. Stop accepting decade old standards, again, you deserve better.

 

Also people saying they can't see the difference, you either have 1 of 2 issues. Your monitor / TV is only 30hz refresh rate and as such you can't display any higher... or your eyes are broken. Our eyes are super powerful and very much capable of noticing these details.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Skurkitty

[Dreakon13 2,762]

I was always of the mindset that 30fps was okay, but the opening year or two of the PS5 has spoiled me a bit.  As we muddle through an age of most developers trying to latch onto the Soulslike trend in their respective genres... and the majority of them not understanding what makes Soulslikes fun, missing the mark horribly, and the games suffering for it with aggressive and befuddling difficulty... every frame and every millisecond is increasingly necessary.

 

That being said, I'm still fine with 30fps as long as it's because developers are experimenting with new technologies and genuinely trying to take graphics to the next level.  It happening on mediocre looking games due to poor optimization and general laziness isn't okay.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Dreakon13

[RedTitan_RedKing 849]

in order to get a true next gen experience that takes advantage of the PS5 hardware, 30fps is the only way, like it was in every generation, and I have absolutely NO problem with that, I can't wait to see more Unreal Eninge 5 games

[Gildo1993 85]

1 hour ago, Phantochi said:

I find 30 FPS much easier to deal with than 60 FPS with bad frame timing, for some reason, and it doesn't really bother me since i regularly play on 15+ year old consoles.

Also, most people can't actually tell, just say it's 60 to someone and they'll believe you.

 

My grandma can't tell, as can't my father. Can't say the same for gamers though. If a person that actively games can't tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps, well, then chances are serious sight problems could be the culprit.

[GUDGER666 2,872]

Most people don't care or even notice. Coming from higher frame rates to 30fps is very noticeable imo, but i quickly get use to it. 30fps is only bad when the game has input lag because it's pretty much never fixed, I've only seen its fixed once and that was on Rise of the Tomb Raider, and completely eliminated on PS4 Pro which received a performance mode. Digital Foundry talked about it

[DrunkenEngineer 1,086]

Frame timing is crucial for framerates and perceived smoothness.  Bloodborne is notorious for inconsistent frame pacing, and while I can adjust to it, it's definitely not ideal.

 

The whole 30 vs. 60 debate (or 120) I feel is most apparent when quickly toggling between one or the other in games where it's an option.  Personally, as someone who also games on PC, I'm always going to prefer higher framerates over lower.  But the brain will adjust and when presented with a 30 FPS title I'm not going to poo-poo it unless the framepacing is noticeably off.

 

I survived the original Dark Souls PC port which was locked to 30FPS, hah!

[SnowxSakura 6,661]

50 minutes ago, Tsundokuist said:

We must be a different species when it comes to vision/processing speed. I’ve literally never noticed it, I’ve starred at the Performance vs Resolution/Quality modes in games like HFW and GT7 like a baby mesmerised by jiggling keys and while the resolution jump is easy to see, the frame rate I never notice a difference in at all.

 

I mean, sure, I understand the concept and can spot when a frame rate is choppy (i.e. a 30fps game drops below 20fps for a second - looking at you SFV - and I’m sure that’s a lot more of an eyesore than when a 60fps game drops to 50fps) but when it’s a smooth/consistent framerate I may as well flip a coin to tell you what’s 60fps and what’s 30fps.

GTA online on the ps5 is the easiest to test, you can easily tell the difference between quality vs performance. It is a night and day difference in how smooth it is between those 2

[KingGuy420 3,808]

I've never understood the "we need high framerates" crowd. High framerate doesn't automatically make a game good. Who gives a shit. Most of the widely considered "best games ever" didn't run at 60fps.

 

The obsession over it, when it's been roundly proven to not matter at all, is just mind-boggling.

[amex_svk 106]

If the game doesn't tie logic to frame rate, then there absolutely should always be an option to unlock the frame rate. This easily future-proofs the games for when they can be played on a more powerful hardware. For some reason the developers refuse to use this option, so there should at least be some sort of a performance mode which downgrades the resolution to 1440/1080p while unlocking the frame rate. This way you please both crowds for not much added work.

 

For people claiming they don't see a difference between 30 and 60 fps - not only does 30 fps look less smooth but is also less responsive to player input (more input delay).

[nickr_ 172]

For anyone wondering what the difference actually looks like :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SzGQkI-IwM

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by nickr_

[mega-tallica 650]

5 minutes ago, Skurkitty said:

People keep saying "I'm used to 30fps, it's fine". No it's not, stop selling yourself short. It's 2022/2023, you deserve better. PCs are going 244FPS+. You are accepting LESS than 15% of that, your PS5 is capable of 120fps, Ragnarok, Dirt, R6 Siege, CoD, etc etc, they're all showing you that. Stop accepting decade old standards, again, you deserve better.

 

This is just another reason why I don't care because I'm always being scolded at by others that I should. 

 

I can notice a difference between 30fps and 60fps, anything beyond 60fps I cannot differentiate. 60fps and 120fps may as well be the same. Even if you gave me a side-by-side comparison to analyze, I couldn't tell you which is which with infallible accuracy and most other people couldn't either, let alone to try tell the difference while in the middle of playing a game. It may be a bigger number on paper and therefore, technically better obviously, but if the average human eye can't even differentiate any difference then what is the point of having triple digit framerates and for this to be something that is absolutely necessary and strived for if any difference and improvement is almost entirely negligible to almost all people? Again, we're pulling hairs here. It's a problem that I literally can't see. 

 

Considering that, I think it's very easy to see why some people don't care about the discrepancy between 30fps and 60fps. It doesn't serve as that big of an improvement to the fundamental quality of most games going from 30 to 60 and that improvement is even more far less noticeable the higher you go. Of course I'd want the highest framerate and performance possible, who wouldn't? Everybody always wants what they don't have and will always take the best possible option if available. But at the same time, I don't need that to enjoy a game or not. That aspect of gaming doesn't work into my opinion of the game itself as much as it does others. Call it having low standards or whatever you want, my opinion on that will never change. 

[DrBloodmoney 24,540]

28 minutes ago, Gildo1993 said:

 

My grandma can't tell, as can't my father. Can't say the same for gamers though. If a person that actively games can't tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps, well, then chances are serious sight problems could be the culprit.

 

I don't think it's really an eyes thing, so much as a "feel" thing for me.

 

I have 20-20, and while I can tell the difference most of the time, it's generally by the "feel" of playing, rather than purely visually - I'm not necessarily confident I could tell steady 30 from steady 60 if it was purely two videos of the same game being played, for example. 

 

[Slava 4,028]

32 minutes ago, Skurkitty said:

Ragnarok, Dirt, R6 Siege, CoD

 

These are all cross-gen titles with PS4 versions. That's the point, just as Richard explained in the article. 

 

The Matrix Awakens demo shows that the new technology is pretty demanding, as it runs at 30fps on PS5. If a developer aims for similar quality, they can forget about a 120fps mode. And the other way around. 

[Stardroid 3,273]

People who say they can't see / feel the difference between 30 and 60 or either legally blind or legally blind

[amex_svk 106]

11 minutes ago, KingGuy420 said:

I've never understood the "we need high framerates" crowd. High framerate doesn't automatically make a game good. Who gives a shit. Most of the widely considered "best games ever" didn't run at 60fps.

 

The obsession over it, when it's been roundly proven to not matter at all, is just mind-boggling.

A lot of "best games ever" also don't look "amazing" anymore (if they even were considered technical marvels back in the day), so the graphical fidelity also doesn't matter. Surprisingly, what makes a good game is the actual gameplay and content, not graphics and frame rate.

 

I wouldn't boycott a game just because it runs 30 fps, hell, most of my favourites struggle to even maintain 30. But there's no denying playing a game at higher frame rates is a different experience, just like with 4k vs 1080p but from a bit different angle.