Digital Foundry: Why the return of 30fps console games is inevitable

[HusKy]

30fps games have tangible input lag which is amplified in fast paced games. Try playing Steep on PS5 (60fps) and then switch to base PS4 (30fps). The difference is staggering and it makes the game actually easier on PS5.

[KingGuy420]

6 minutes ago, amex_svk said:

A lot of "best games ever" also don't look "amazing" anymore (if they even were considered technical marvels back in the day), so the graphical fidelity also doesn't matter. Surprisingly, what makes a good game is the actual gameplay and content, not graphics and frame rate.

 

I wouldn't boycott a game just because it runs 30 fps, hell, most of my favourites struggle to even maintain 30. But there's no denying playing a game at higher frame rates is a different experience, just like with 4k vs 1080p but from a bit different angle.

 

You're right, there's no denying that it's a different experience... but that difference doesn't automatically make it a better experience.

 

I'll take Ocarina of Time over 99% of the 60fps games that are coming out nowadays, and that game barely maintained 20.

[amex_svk]

Eh... a good game at 60 fps is just gonna be an all around smoother experience than when it's played at 30 - see also all the 30 fps PS4 games that run at 60 on PS5.

OOT is a great game, not gonna argue that, but there's no denying it's a more pleasant experience to play it at smooth 60 fps than choppy 20-30 (thank god for PC emulation).

60 fps is just a direct upgrade over 30 without any drawbacks, so I don't see how it wouldn't automatically make the gaming experience better. It's just like having faster loads, prettier graphics and so on. Can I live without it? Yes, but it absolutely improves the game.

Edited October 27, 2022 by amex_svk

[Raidou Kuzunoha XIV]

I guess I'm one of those blind people because I've never been able to tell the difference between 30fps or 60fps, so I personally couldn't care less if a game has the latter. Mind you, I still play a lot of old games (like PS1 old, and older), so visuals and performance don't matter a ton to me, as long as it isn't chugging away like a Bethesda game on PS3 or something.

 

I think there is a chance less games will have 60fps or higher modes, just as on generations have gone on in the past, features that were common early on in the gen were mostly dropped (e.g. motion controls with early PS3 games, less 3DS games supporting 3D later on in the generation, etc.). I believe, if anything else, less games will take advantage of the haptic triggers in the Dualsense as the generation continues.

[Breakingthegreen]

I can tell the difference, but only when I've tried the same game at a higher frame rate, so because I remember the PS4 going from 60 to 30, I've been playing nearly every game on resolution by default.

Only exception is VR, Framerate is super important if you don't want to see you breakfast on your shirt in VR.

[Phantochi]

1 hour ago, Gildo1993 said:

 

My grandma can't tell, as can't my father. Can't say the same for gamers though. If a person that actively games can't tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps, well, then chances are serious sight problems could be the culprit.

 

Nah, i don't know if it's a vision thing, even if you game often feels like it's hard to tell sometimes, just like @SnowxSakura mentioned above, if can't switch between quality and performance mode on the fly, you wouldn't really noticed it. 

 

Most people that complain about FPS only complain because it's not at 60, not because it makes the game looks bad, unplayable or whatever, just like when Okami got released for pc, people piled so many bad reviews on it just because it was released for less than 60 fps, like wtf? Okami is a paragon of game and world design, with a fantastic story, fun mechanics, and a singular artistic vision. And it’s considered utter garbage because of framerates? Really?

 

Unless the framerate is horribly unstable, it doesn’t have too much of a negative effect imo.

[farradono]

It’s a pity, because we struck a good balance lately, with games asking  you if you prefer a performance mode, which usually nets you 60 fps, or a graphics mode, for those interested in seeing grass or water graphics, this should be the standard.

[VigilantCrow]

Frame rate's a pointless stat anyway. 30 is enough for strategy and most indies worth touching

[Deadly_Ha_Ha]

The first time I played Kingdom Hearts in 60fps instead of 30 I could not BELIEVE what I was witnessing. It's cringe reading people in this thread man. 

[The Alchemist]

I've spent most of my gaming life playing at 30fps, but switching to 60fps this generation has been a literal game changer. For someone who never really gamed at anything more than 30fps prior to this, the difference was immediately noticeable. Not just a minor difference, a total night and day difference. With that being said, I can go back to 30fps, but it's far from a pleasurable experience most of the time, but it does vary from genre to genre. Obviously anything combat or fast-paced will suck ass, while slower-paced games will be mostly fine assuming they're locked at 30fps. I recently finished The Medium, which is a 30fps PS5 title, and I had to double check to see if it got a 60fps patch at some point, because it was so smooth, but that's mostly down to the slow pace of the game and the fixed camera. So yeah, it definitely depends on the game in question. Sometimes 30fps is fine, most of the time it's awful. 

 

But we shouldn't be settling for 30fps, regardless of if you think it's fine or not or can tell the difference or not. We need to be pushing standards forwards, not getting stuck in the past. I really think for the most part we're starting to hit diminishing returns territory as far as graphics/fidelity is concerned, so I would much rather have smoother performance. I think most new games still look absolutely stunning even when played in performance modes. You're really not losing out on much by taking a very slight fidelity hit, but the opposite isn't true for performance. And I think games running at 60fps actually look better anyway, because everything looks smoother. There's no point in 4K30 if everything is a blurry, stuttery mess.

 

I really hope we don't regress to 30fps being the console standard. It would be a total joke in my opinion, but hopefully devs will have the common sense to not do that, at least keep offering performance mode options going forward. 

[Undead Wolf]

I had a feeling the 60fps standard wouldn't last as we come out of the cross-gen period. Games are getting more technically demanding and the hardware is getting older. It's too bad because the higher frame rate is one of the main selling points of the PS5. I think a stable 30fps is perfectly playable, but 60fps is such a night and day difference. Makes games feel way more responsive and more enjoyable to play as a result. I really don't know what some of the people posting in this thread are smoking when saying they can't see the difference. ? I always pick performance mode when given the option because doubling the frame rate is way more significant than going from 1440p to 4k and having ray tracing enabled. I mean these games are pretty enough without the extra bells and whistles a fidelity mode gives. Besides, video games are meant to be played, not looked at.

If we're going to see 30fps return as the one and only option for AAA games going forward, I think that just makes the case for why we need a PS5 Pro. 

[EDGES]

2 hours ago, amex_svk said:

A lot of "best games ever" also don't look "amazing" anymore (if they even were considered technical marvels back in the day), so the graphical fidelity also doesn't matter

 

that's why those games get remade, because as great as they are, people want to have them in modern top of the line graphics, FF7, RE games, SOTC, so graphical fidelity absolutely matters, if it didn't, nobody would ask for a remake

[amex_svk]

1 hour ago, The Investigator said:

 

that's why those games get remade, because as great as they are, people want to have them in modern top of the line graphics, FF7, RE games, SOTC, so graphical fidelity absolutely matters, if it didn't, nobody would ask for a remake

All of those also run at 60 fps, a much better performance than their original versions, so it seems like frame rate also matters...

[AJ_Radio]

3 hours ago, VigilantCrow said:

Frame rate's a pointless stat anyway. 30 is enough for strategy and most indies worth touching

I disagree entirely. I don’t care that much about graphical fidelity, but if I can get the option of 60 FPS then I will take that the moment it’s available. 
 

Unless you’re strictly playing slower turn based strategy games on PC and some indies, 60 FPS is a very welcoming change.

[CelestialRequiem]

It was easier to tell the difference on PS3. 

 

Many PS2 games were 60fps. At the time it wasn't seen as big of a deal though, given the graphical jump/introduction to HD resolutions. 

[EDGES]

29 minutes ago, amex_svk said:

All of those also run at 60 fps, a much better performance than their original versions, so it seems like frame rate also matters...

on PS4Pro/PS5, base PS4 was 30 and it was fine for them

[AJ_Radio]

4 hours ago, KingGuy420 said:

You're right, there's no denying that it's a different experience... but that difference doesn't automatically make it a better experience.

 

I'll take Ocarina of Time over 99% of the 60fps games that are coming out nowadays, and that game barely maintained 20.

Ocarina of Time is considered one of the most memorable games of all time. It was also released in an era (late 90’s, early 2000’s) when developers were able to experiment more. 
 

This still rings true for low budget indies and AA production titles. We are however past the point of big budget AAA games making great risk. 
 

The younger generations will disagree, but then again most of us are well in our 30s and 40s with decades of gaming experience. Obviously we’re going to be a little bit biased. 

[Phlegeth]

This is one of the dumbest debates in gaming.  Of course 60 FPS is going to look better.  30 FPS is fine.  Everytime this comes up, the little kids who parrot Redditors get up in arms.  And it's always the same thing.  Give it a rest, if you don't like 30 FPS don't play it.  Move on to something else.  You aren't going to convince anyone to not play 30 FPS, except maybe other children.

[AJ_Radio]

2 minutes ago, Ilzakia said:

This is one of the dumbest debates in gaming.  Of course 60 FPS is going to look better.  30 FPS is fine.  Everytime this comes up, the little kids who parrot Redditors get up in arms.  And it's always the same thing.  Give it a rest, if you don't like 30 FPS don't play it.  Move on to something else.  You aren't going to convince anyone to not play 30 FPS, except maybe other children.

I find gaming communities to have some of the most pretentious, crybaby people out there. 
 

This is no different than the so called ‘Master PC Race’ who feel everything is superior on PC. 

[KingGuy420]

21 minutes ago, AJ_Radio said:

I disagree entirely. I don’t care that much about graphical fidelity, but if I can get the option of 60 FPS then I will take that the moment it’s available. 
 

Unless you’re strictly playing slower turn based strategy games on PC and some indies, 60 FPS is a very welcoming change.

 

If 60fps is an option, I'll take it too. Who wouldn't. But I'm also not going to cry and whine and refuse to buy the game if the only option available is 30, like a lot of people seem to be nowadays.

 

As long as it optimized to be run at 30, then that's all that matters. I mean, if it's optimized for 60 but struggles to maintain 30, now that's a problem I might complain about lol.

[AJ_Radio]

Just now, KingGuy420 said:

If 60fps is an option, I'll take it too. Who wouldn't. But I'm also not going to cry and whine and refuse to buy the game if the only option available is 30, like a lot of people seem to be nowadays.

 

As long as it optimized to be run at 30, then that's all that matters. I mean, if it's optimized for 60 but struggles to maintain 30, now that's a problem I might complain about lol.

I’m still playing PS3 games which are for the most part locked at 30 FPS outside of PS2 to PS3 ports and a couple exclusives like inFamous 2. 
 

I disagree with 60 FPS being pointless or serving as a way to get people to spend more money (remastered games that have better framerate). 
 

This is the gap between older people who are content with older games on 30/60 FPS and the stupid kids on TikTok and Twitter crying that games on PS5 or PC aren’t performing at the “required 60 FPS” level. Those people piss me off. 

[Markemmanuel]

60fps should be the minimum. I don't care about next level graphics if my eyes feel like they're stuttering. 

 

 

[JPtheNeurotic]

I’ve played the Witcher 1 on my shitty laptop while going indern30 gos. It ducked 

 

 

but also I’m fine with 30 

[Zid960]

6 hours ago, Tsundokuist said:

We must be a different species when it comes to vision/processing speed. I’ve literally never noticed it, I’ve starred at the Performance vs Resolution/Quality modes in games like HFW and GT7 like a baby mesmerised by jiggling keys and while the resolution jump is easy to see, the frame rate I never notice a difference in at all.

 

I mean, sure, I understand the concept and can spot when a frame rate is choppy (i.e. a 30fps game drops below 20fps for a second - looking at you SFV - and I’m sure that’s a lot more of an eyesore than when a 60fps game drops to 50fps) but when it’s a smooth/consistent framerate I may as well flip a coin to tell you what’s 60fps and what’s 30fps.

This line of what you can and cant is very fine. And changes person to person. Taking a simple fps test can show you up to see. For me anything over 42fps is not visually different. Some can see higher rates.

 

The problem is fps is the only selling somewhat visible point for the next gen. Cuz if it the same frame rate, processing and everything else. With no real difference. Then there no point to new consoles. And it wouldn't get adopted. It why the idea of a playstation 5 my be the last gen. As if there no difference at all. As there barely getting anything new out of it

[Titanomachy_75]

8 hours ago, DrZero_1983 said:

Me still trying to understand the difference between 30fps and 60fps:

 

true there is no difference just a fan boys where told its different lol

Most newer tvs nowadays have features where 30 fps is smooth as butter and plays as you are playing 60 or 90 fps ...So, most times not if your lagging in 2022 or 2023 its not 30 fps lol its your internet 10 out of 10 times!!! With tvs nowadays no excuses to be honest!