My Final Point of Discussion on Shovelware

[TheBlaskar]

I apologize for opening yet another can of worms on the topic of 'shovelware,' but I think one final question remains (unless I missed it)

Edited November 28, 2022 by APeskyAxolotl

[DrBloodmoney]

The first one is still a shovel-ware, specifically BECAUSE it is the first of many.

 

When you shovel your driveway, you aren't interested in which was the first snowflake to fall - you just want all of them cleared away.

 

 

Also, I'd argue that there should not be a hard, specific definition of shovel-ware, because any attempt to classify it using exact metrics only serves to define the specific parameters that shovel-ware "developers" can use to ill-define it.

 

If a hard definition says, for example "must contain X number of moving pixels / polygons" that is a dog whistle to the "developers" who can then put exactly X+1 in their product... knowing they are safe, and can and use that definition to argue what they made is a "game" and not a "shovel-ware".

 

Shovel-ware should, instead, be defined in the same way the US supreme court defines pornography: "We can't define it exactly, but we know it when we see it"...

...because let's face it - any hard-and-fast rules make no sense in an artistic medium - and serve only to benefit the cynical, and potentially stifle genuine artistic endeavours. 

 

After all - we haven't seen it yet, but there may actually be a legitimate argument for a genuinely artful game, that happens to be indistinguishable from Shovel-ware, if the definition is too narrow. 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by DrBloodmoney

[sepheroithisgod]

I get the point that is being made about how the first shovelware title is technically original, but ultimately, we all know what it really is.

 

I believe the first game is still shovelware, it is just the original shovelware title before they released derivatives of it. It was built to be easily modifiable( i.e replace a bagel with a pizza), and while this could be done in any game, the low effort of the first title is still indicative of the entire series. All you need to ask yourself is if these games didn't give you a platinum trophy in 5 minutes, would anyone play it and defend the practice, I think we all know the answer to that.

[Sikutai]

Oh look, it's a new thread about Shovelware. It's getting boring.

 

I voted anyway to make you happy. I voted for option B: The first game is Shovelware.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Sikutai

[megacoolermensch]

Just now, Sikutai said:

Oh look, it's a new thread about Shovelware. It's getting boring.

mods are at fault for closing every thread on this topic then people make a new one.

 

btw im not opposed to this kind of thread

[VoidVictorious]

I would really appreciate it if we stopped beating this dead horse. A piece of software designed to give you trophies without any actual fun will always be shovelware.

[PalaceOfLove706]

Everybody knows what shovelware is. It sounds like the duplicating of games is going to be addressed which means it doesn’t matter when it’s defined. 

[Breakingthegreen]

43 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

The first one is still a shovel-ware, specifically BECAUSE it is the first of many.

 

When you shovel your driveway, you aren't interested in which was the first snowflake to fall - you just want all of them cleared away.

 

"Shovel-ware" is a repeated but technically unique product that is made purely for a cheap profit.

 

"Shovel where?" is what you ask when you need to clear the driveway of that one snowflake.

[MandA60VISE]

The Wii, DS, and PS2 were littered with shovelware yet had very few (I believe) instances of repetition, whether it's assets or mechanics. I'm no expert on shovelware so don't ask me but as stated before it's pretty blatant when seen. 

[Skurkitty]

When I can't tell which was the first, fifth, or tenth, because it's all the same. The "first" one created being shovelware or not is a moot point. Shovelware is shovelware. I'm glad this whole situation is coming to a close after all this time.

[JAK-KRIEG]

Oh great more advertising shovelware. Just let it die already.

[NanaCheese94]

I think its an interesting discussion to be had besides the whole wider context going on in the community.

In my opinion, the first game is indeed not shovelware. It is shit, but it was an original idea (to scam the trophy community but whatever) Someone has to be the first to do something.

It's the same about modern art. so much of it is godawful, but much of it is getting famous cause nobody else thought of it first.

 

So i would classify everythin that came AFTER the first of these cheap titles as shovelware, as long as they follow the same "gameplay" and "mechanics".

[Deadly_Ha_Ha]

Jesus Christ who is reading all that? Shovelware is easy to see if you have eyeballs that work

[KennethMcCormick]

1 hour ago, breakingthegreen said:

 

"Shovel-ware" is a repeated but technically unique product that is made purely for a cheap profit.

 

"Shovel where?" is what you ask when you need to clear the driveway of that one snowflake.

 

And a Shovelwere is a shovel that transforms into a humanoid when the Moon is full.

[Thrillhelm]

2 hours ago, megacoolermensch said:

mods are at fault for closing every thread on this topic then people make a new one.

 

btw im not opposed to this kind of thread

The threads turn into flamewar and bullying pretty fast, rather than having a civilized conversation. Usually it is pointing fingers, demanding a rarity leaderboard and requesting to have any shovelware game worth zero points, expanding the list of games that should count as shovelware, or any combination of that.

 

As for the OP question its answer B. If the second game is an asset swap of the first game then it doesn't matter much which came first, both are shovelware.

[MonaSaxPayne]

3 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

be defined in the same way the US supreme court defines

 

I was following ur argument until u tried to use the US Supreme Court as the benchmark of intelligent thinking. they still enforce some pretty stupid and archaic laws

 

anyway on topic... 1 shit "game" is shovelware. it doesn't become shovelware only if it gets a sequel

[DrBloodmoney]

2 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

 

I was following ur argument until u tried to use the US Supreme Court as the benchmark of intelligent thinking.

I didn’t.

[diskdocx]

I think the only interesting remain debate to be had is; is My Name is Mayo shovel ware?

[Darling Baphomet]

2 hours ago, MandA60VISE said:

The Wii, DS, and PS2 were littered with shovelware yet had very few (I believe) instances of repetition, whether it's assets or mechanics. I'm no expert on shovelware so don't ask me but as stated before it's pretty blatant when seen. 

 

We're specifically using a definition of shovelware which has to do with ezpz trophy games. Those platforms may have had low quality games, but it's not quite the same thing as static images of dogs which are made into games solely to give you free internet points.

 

2 minutes ago, diskdocx said:

I think the only interesting remain debate to be had is; is My Name is Mayo shovel ware?

 

I'd say yes. It's essentially the father of all shovelware.

[MonaSaxPayne]

10 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

I didn’t.

 

my bad maybe I inferred it incorrectly 

 

9 minutes ago, diskdocx said:

I think the only interesting remain debate to be had is; is My Name is Mayo shovel ware?

 

honestly I'd say no. mayo has some semblance of humor.. really does try to tell a story, and [(un?)ironically?] makes fun of itself 

 

compare that to any Stroke the X games 

[Bloke]

16 minutes ago, diskdocx said:

I think the only interesting remain debate to be had is; is My Name is Mayo shovel ware?

If we would compare it to the rest of the titles marked as such, yes it could be potentially. I have them on my profile and would be comfortable allocating zero points to them if it came down to it. If it would mean the top leaderboard positions being filled with players who actually earned it by playing actual games, I would be satisfied with that outcome.

Edited November 28, 2022 by TriadThunder

[GothGirlMaxine]

16 minutes ago, diskdocx said:

I think the only interesting remain debate to be had is; is My Name is Mayo shovel ware?

 

I consider it a trilogy of greatness

 

Sauce: Trust me

[Thrillhelm]

My Name is Mayo was affordable, yes, with easy trophies as well, no doubt, but not made solely for the purpose of selling trophies for money. Being the first game of its kind, I'd say it gets a pass even when the sequels were similar but not the exact same.

 

You gotta give Mayo that - its beyond any of the Stroke games which have a similar concept but a poor execution at four times the price.

[melodicmizery]

how about you stop trying to get rid of shit that other people like? is psn the new twitter mob. what do you care how many plats someone else has. how does shovelware impact your life at all besides leaderboard positions in which the majority of people will never reach the top 100 in their entire lifetime at this point even if shovelware is gone. 

why dont you stop autopops while your at it. i just popped re3 in 1 second. and stacks on games that only take a day to complete at most. the line is to blurred

[Bloke]

5 minutes ago, StygianWolf4 said:

 

I consider it a trilogy of greatness

 

Sauce: Trust me

Let's not forget Mr Massagy and Bird Cakes.