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How would a Leaderboard look without Auto-popping and Stacking?


Stedde

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I am not really a fan of stacking trophies. Never seen the really value in it (I am not rush in climbing the leaderboard ?)
In my humble opinon you get the value from complete a game once. Getting the same value with not extra effort 3 times or more is a strange phenomena.
The same thing about auto-popping. You have completed a game once, why should you get the value twice with not extra effort?

 

With this said, how big of a difference to the leaderboard would this do? A game can/would only get counted once, a more "clean" Leaderboard.
Would there be a lot of movement among all the trophy hunters in the current leaderboard or the list would look the same, do you think?

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It would look incredibly lame with nothing but spam. Much like the current leaderboard.

 

There are only a couple of dozen auto pop plats, so removing them will have almost no impact.

 

Removing legitimately played stacks is just nonsense. Just because you aren't a fan is irrelevant.

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59 minutes ago, Stedde said:

In my humble opinon you get the value from complete a game once. Getting the same value with not extra effort 3 times or more is a strange phenomena.
The same thing about auto-popping. You have completed a game once, why should you get the value twice with not extra effort?

How do you think stacking is the same with autopopping? "You have completed a game once, why should you get the value twice with no extra effort?" That doesn't apply to stacking since you do it all again.


If someone had a site that could track Steam, Xbox, and PlayStation achievements for a combined leaderboard and someone got Super Meat Boy to 100% on all of them would that "not count" to you? Did that require "no extra effort"? I think you meant silly opinion. I love stacking since it gives me an excuse to replay games I like. Sure I could replay the other version I already did, but why not get another platinum in the process? Did my first platinum of Jak & Daxter not count either since I also got 100% on PS2? 

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1 hour ago, Helyx said:

It'd look like this - https://psn100.net/leaderboard/main

Thanks!
I had forgot about that one. 

 

1 hour ago, diskdocx said:

It would look incredibly lame with nothing but spam. Much like the current leaderboard.

 

There are only a couple of dozen auto pop plats, so removing them will have almost no impact.

 

Removing legitimately played stacks is just nonsense. Just because you aren't a fan is irrelevant.

What do you mean "nothing but spam"? 
Is it not exactly what we currently have. Same game showing up many times?

You are right.
There probably is not that many auto-pop when you look at the big picture.

 

20 minutes ago, Elvick_ said:

How do you think stacking is the same with autopopping? "You have completed a game once, why should you get the value twice with no extra effort?" That doesn't apply to stacking since you do it all again.


If someone had a site that could track Steam, Xbox, and PlayStation achievements for a combined leaderboard and someone got Super Meat Boy to 100% on all of them would that "not count" to you? Did that require "no extra effort"? I think you meant silly opinion. I love stacking since it gives me an excuse to replay games I like. Sure I could replay the other version I already did, but why not get another platinum in the process? Did my first platinum of Jak & Daxter not count either since I also got 100% on PS2? 

You are correct. 
Of course there is any effort of playing the same game again. It was wrong to put the stacking and Auto-pop in the same bucket.

I am only thinking about Playstation and not thinking about other achievements.
I don't own any other cones and cannot relate to playing the same game again but for another console.

 

8 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

 

going by your own metrics, your 52% completion profile suggests u don't even get value out of your own games

 

let ppl play how/what they want. I assure u, you'll sleep better at night 

No, I need to up my game for sure. New Years resolution! ?

Of course people can play and do what they want. That is the beauty!
I have done auto pop myself.

I was just curious what other people think.

 
Edited by Stedde
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10 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Probably not much different TBH.

 

If anything, it would favour the folks already at the top - since it is still faster to ”play” 200 shovelwares that are technically separate “games” than playing a single, quality game, and auto-popping another stack of it. 

OK!
But correct me if I am wrong, doesn't almost all shovelwares have stacking?

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4 minutes ago, Stedde said:

OK!
But correct me if I am wrong, doesn't almost all shovelwares have stacking?


they do, I believe, yeah - but even without stacking them, they would still dwarf the real games on the LBs, in terms of pure “Trophies vs. Time”…

 

…so I suspect that even removing every stack from every player, the actual positions wouldn’t change much.

The only real difference is that the points gulf between the heavy shovelware-users, and the shovelware-averse would widen a bit.

Edited by DrBloodmoney
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PSN100 is not ideal, keep that in mind 

 

I platted the Vita version of Ys: Lacrimosa of Dana on my old account and it got invalidated as "obsolete" because of the PS5 version (even though autopop is impossible) 

 

The same complaint applies to the PS3 versions of Mass Effect, Persona 5 (even though vanilla is harder to plat than Royal) and countless other PS3 / PS4 / Vita games

 

With that being said, if there was a way to distinguish auto-pop plats from legit double / triple stacks (earned legitimately) and remove Ratalaika-tier games, it would be the perfect leaderboard

 

Edited by HardModeTrophies
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Just as a side note, I see some folks recommending PSN100... 

...and I don't really understand why?

 

PSN100 isn't a leaderboard against stackers, it is a leaderboard ONLY for stackers.

 

PSN100 only recognises the stack, not the original.

If a game comes out, and 100 players complete it, then a new version comes out - all players have their original game invalidated, and the points removed for it, whether or not they even have access to the new version.

The only people who get any recognition points, are the ones who either auto-pop, or re-do the new version.

 

It is more of a "rolling" leaderboard, specifically designed to cater to those who like to stack every version of every game, than a straight "one version only" LB, which is what I think the OP is hinting at?

Edited by DrBloodmoney
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15 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Just as a side note, I see some folks recommending PSN100... 

...and I don't really understand why?


Because it’s a real leaderboard that represents the type of restrictions being presented in the opening post. Since console stacks generally represent just a small fraction of all trophy enabled games available, it’s a valid response. 
 

 

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It would trim some of the larger accounts down, but would ultimately be similar. At this point, the only leaderboard changes that will have any impact are:

1) Rarity leaderboard (i.e not counting trophies above a certain threshold like 75% etc.)
2) Making all of the games this website marks as shovelware worth 0 points.

 

Shovelware has destroyed the leaderboard and it is not repairable unless they are removed.

 

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2 hours ago, Stedde said:

I am not really a fan of stacking trophies. Never seen the really value in it (I am not rush in climbing the leaderboard 1f604.png)
In my humble opinon you get the value from complete a game once. Getting the same value with not extra effort 3 times or more is a strange phenomena.
The same thing about auto-popping. You have completed a game once, why should you get the value twice with not extra effort?

 

With this said, how big of a difference to the leaderboard would this do? A game can/would only get counted once, a more "clean" Leaderboard.
Would there be a lot of movement among all the trophy hunters in the current leaderboard or the list would look the same, do you think?

 

So, let me get this straight: if there is a game that somebody loves enough to not only play more than once but also go for the platinum, for instance, say The Witcher 3 which takes about 200 hours and doesn't support auto popping as far as I know then there's no value or effort in that because it's the same game? Respectfully, this take is so bad that I honestly think you're gonna look back on it in a few years and cringe, I really do.

 

1 hour ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

 

going by your own metrics, your 52% completion profile suggests u don't even get value out of your own games

 

let ppl play how/what they want. I assure u, you'll sleep better at night 

 

I'm noticing a pattern with posters who like to talk sh*t about other players' gaming habits...

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10 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

so you think a valid answer to “How would the Leaderboard look without Autopopping and Stacking?”…

 

…is to point to a leaderboard that only recognises stacks and autopops, and invalidates all other versions of games?


No, I think it’s a valid answer to “How would a leaderboard look without Autopopping and Stacking” and the second sentence of my two sentence reply addresses the rest of your post without needing to quote your whole post, that for much of the leaderboard, only counting the most recent stack like the example does would have a minuscule impact on the leaderboard because stacks don’t make up a significant number of the points for any given participant. So the few that would be invalidated wouldn’t change much. 
 



 

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11 minutes ago, DaivRules said:


only counting the most recent stack like the example does would have a minuscule impact on the leaderboard because stacks don’t make up a significant number of the points for any given participant. So the few that would be invalidated wouldn’t change much. 


This is a misunderstanding of what PSN100 does.

 

The fact that “stacks don’t make up a significant number of the points for any given participant” is true - which is precisely why PSN100s methodology would have an impact.

 

Most people don’t play every stack of a game.

 

Take something like The Witcher 3 - it’s a very popular game, but a long and involved one, so the majority of people who platted it on Ps4 will likely not re-plat on Ps5.

 

However, because the PS5 version exists, now everyone who did plat it on PS4 just had those points voided.

 

Since there are a lot of PS4 games getting new PS5 versions, the fact that most people WONT re-plat or re-pop them, means PSN100s methodology does have a big effect - it renders games that are big, popular and successful enough to warrant any re-release null-and-void for regular, non-stacking players.


It caters only to players who either stack, autopop, or exclusively play obscure or niche games, that are unlikely to ever get a remaster.

 

(though, of course, not too obscure…

…since any game that gets delisted also gets rendered null-and-void!)

 

 

 

Edited by DrBloodmoney
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2 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Just as a side note, I see some folks recommending PSN100... 

...and I don't really understand why?

 

PSN100 isn't a leaderboard against stackers, it is a leaderboard ONLY for stackers.

 

PSN100 only recognises the stack, not the original.

If a game comes out, and 100 players complete it, then a new version comes out - all players have their original game invalidated, and the points removed for it, whether or not they even have access to the new version.

The only people who get any recognition points, are the ones who either auto-pop, or re-do the new version.

 

It is more of a "rolling" leaderboard, specifically designed to cater to those who like to stack every version of every game, than a straight "one version only" LB, which is what I think the OP is hinting at?

I am not sure if this is correct. I have looked at my profile there and my furi plat is not marked as „obsolete“ even tho I only have the ps4 version done and buy now a ps5 version was released that I don’t have

 

ok on the other hand some stuff is marked obsolete we’re no other version exists and that still should be obtainable or were I simply never played another version

Edited by Ich1994-1994
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12 minutes ago, Ich1994-1994 said:

I am not sure if this is correct. I have looked at my profile there and my furi plat is not marked as „obsolete“ even tho I only have the ps4 version done and buy now a ps5 version was released that I don’t have

 

ok on the other hand some stuff is marked obsolete we’re no other version exists and that still should be obtainable or were I simply never played another version


I guess it’s possible they have updated their method, (I admit, I haven’t checked it in a while) a but certainly when I checked it a while back, anything that had a new version, or had been delisted was voided, with the message along the lines of “play this other version instead”

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Stats on PSN100:

56 platinum trophies less

32 obsolete - a newer version on PS4/PS5 ( Catherine, GTA 5, Red Faction Guerrilla)

22 not listed - stack of the same konsole version or unobtainable platinums (Injustice, Max Payne 3, Mortal Kombat)

2 delisted - not availeble anymore idk (Driveclub Bikes, Laser League)

 

 

 

Edited by D-E-U-S-X
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You can get a decent idea of what a 'clean' leaderboard would look like from the VR leaderboard. No autopops or shovelware, thank god.

 

21 minutes ago, MilanYildirim said:

Shovelbros pop 100s of plats in one day by spending 1 minute on each and you are bothered with autopop? Man…

 

Yes? Autopops take even less effort than shovelware platinums. Plus they fuck up rarity for people who legitimately play the games, e.g. Spider-Man Remastered on PS5 has a 63% rarity while Miles Morales is 50% despite the fact that Miles Morales is a standalone DLC and Spider-Man Remastered is a full game. Just because other people are having a shit buffet doesn't mean you have to fill up a plate yourself.

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4 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

You can get a decent idea of what a 'clean' leaderboard would look like from the VR leaderboard. No autopops or shovelware, thank god.

 

 

Yes? Autopops take even less effort than shovelware platinums. Plus they fuck up rarity for people who legitimately play the games, e.g. Spider-Man Remastered on PS5 has a 63% rarity while Miles Morales is 50% despite the fact that Miles Morales is a standalone DLC and Spider-Man Remastered is a full game. Just because other people are having a shit buffet doesn't mean you have to fill up a plate yourself.


by the time you can platinize an AAA game you can pop 500 shovelware so saying an autopop take even less effort is just… l don’t know man you can fill the blank

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5 minutes ago, MilanYildirim said:

by the time you can platinize an AAA game you can pop 500 shovelware so saying an autopop take even less effort is just… l don’t know man you can fill the blank

 

Okay, but you're not platinuming an AAA game, you're loading a game and instantly getting a free platinum. Even most shovelware platinums take at least 5-10 minutes. One autopop takes less effort than one shovelware platinum.

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