Achievements/Trophies bad for gaming says Ubisoft dev

[DEI2EK 4,417]

Just something I saw on twitter

Agree/disagree?

I’m not really sure how programming a few poppable achievements eats resources but I’m not a dev so what do I know
 

[MonaSaxPayne 3,169]

I think he made a typo. clearly he meant micro transactions, not trophies

[DaivRules 15,283]

Quote

Unpopular opinion : achievements/trophies have been bad for gaming. It narrows games down, it disrupts and diverts attention, and it eats resources that could have made the game better.

 

• It narrows games down
  • Yeah, if the game is designed around achievements instead of using them to facilitate playing the game as the designers envisioned
• it disrupts and diverts attention
  • Again, if implemented that way, sure. Take Heavy Rain that only popped notifications on loading screens. No disruption or attention diverting.
• it eats resources that could have made the game better
  • Sure, with a poor studio who makes that poor decision. This is like saying cleaning the bathroom eats resources that could have been made games better.

[RinkuKulkan 105]

Seeing my man here worked on the Division, an attempt at a live service game by Ubisoft (twice actually), I would say this comes from the fact achievements actually puts a goal in a game that shouldn't have one. As soon as I got the plat for the Division, I deleted it and forgot about it. No money spent, no more time wasted. Trophies definitely narrow down a game that is designed to be played over and over indefinitely. The fact that the Division was a meh game, doesn't help with this either.

[KenjiCBZ 2,283]

The problem is not achievements/trophies themselves, but how certain people tackle them.

[Skurkitty 760]

Damn, didn't know coming up with gimmick conditions or kill [X] / complete [X], and writing presumably one line of code to make them pop was such a time aversion.

 

AC Valhalla could have been 300HRs! Robbed of content!

[Caesar Clown 700]

This is about Assassin's Creed Infinity. Since the AC series will no longer be stand-alone games and will be played in AC Infinity, they need to figure out how to handle trophies/achievements for it and it's probably ruining whatever money-grabbing scheme they were going to run.

Edited January 11 by Caesar Clown

[DrBloodmoney 25,181]

I say this as someone who actually quite likes the Ubisoft formula when used correctly...

 

...but if this dude thinks it's achievements, and not... say,... making every single game they release follow the same tried-and-true formula, the same basic structure, the same open world template, complete with towers, map-barf, mission-based narrative etc, and the same suite of microtrasactions...

 

... then he must be high as a paper kite.

Edited January 11 by DrBloodmoney

[Annoyingtiger888 557]

Absolutely not. I mean, I get that some people go insane over trophies and forget to enjoy the game or they buy games only because it has an easy plat, but I don't think it makes games worse at all. It feels like you accomplish something and it gives you a goal to work toward. It gives a lot of games some replay value as many games require multiple playthroughs in order to get the trophies. For me, I feel proud when I get trophies and it makes the game a much better experience! There's a lot of mobile games I enjoy playing, but I have a lack of motivation to play them because I have no trophies to work toward.

 

The fact that someone can say such a thing... it blows my mind! Trophies have changed gaming in a good way and I would honestly not love games or have as much motivation to finish games without that small serotonin boost that earning a trophy gives. It's the only thing in my life I have that I've accomplished and feel proud of (yes it's sad don't judge me 😂)

Edited January 11 by Annoyingtiger888

[HuntingFever 8,972]

I both agree and disagree with him on this. I've seen a lot of terrible trophy lists in my time, along with some good ones that were ruined by glitches the devs refused to fix. It's all in moderation IMO, put the requisite time and money into getting it right first time, then you won't have a problem later on but if issues do arise, fix them quickly instead of dragging your heels and acting like there's nothing wrong. On a personal level, trophies have only been a bad thing in my life and drove to me to become someone I really didn't like, which is why I gave up on serious trophy hunting a few years ago and abandoned any notion of getting a 100% profile so now I just play what I want and dump the games that drive me mad .

[ARIXANDRE 249]

Since there is no quality assurance for trophies, I can agree but...

 

I'm in too deep now. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Lava_Yuki 1,078]

I disagree, as I have never thought or experienced any of these things. 

Trophies usually get players to do more in the game, as I bet most players wouldn't bother with completing non-story related stuff if there weren't trophies for it. I know I certainly would not. 

 

Trophies never disrupted attention, and if he doesn't know there is the option of turning off trophy notifications anyway. 

 

I don't know about the eating resources bit as I'm not a game developer. I assumed games were made and then trophies afterwards to fit around the game, rather than the game being made to fit around trophies which does not make sense. Also, with games being released across platforms to include Nintendo which has no trophies, I would assume trophies do not affect the overarching development and design of a game in terms of what to include.

[Helyx 9,584]

And here I was thinking Ubisoft was bad for gaming.

[Moridin83 722]

A terrible trophy list can make a decent game overstay its welcome with grindy trophies or unnecessary multiplayer, but it only narrows or disrupts a game if a bad dev lets it. On the other hand, a good trophy list incentivises doing more in a game, and may help bring some cool secrets to light that many gamers wouldn't have even known to look for otherwise. 

 

Also I agree with @DrBloodmoney that it's particularly ironic for an Ubisoft dev to make this argument. I also enjoy a good ubi checkbox adventure when I don't want to think too deeply, but for anyone associated with their particular cookie cutter formula to say this, shows a stunning lack of self awareness.

[greenzsaber 1,151]

Shit take. The devs control what's an achievement/trophy. It's only bad/disruptive if the developers make it so and include stupid pointless trophies (100 hour trophy for a 1 hour game, 10000 deaths, kill 50000 enemies in online sessions, etc). A well designed achievement/trophy list won't disrupt or hinder the game experience and can even enhance it if done correctly.

[sepheroithisgod 2,813]

40 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

I think he made a typo. clearly he meant micro transactions, not trophies

^This 100%

A trophy list uses very few resources as they should be tied into the existing game/systems. No one makes a trophy list first and says, ok, now we build a game around that, well, maybe shovelware titles do. But seriously, everything they said completely fits into microtransactions and not trophies.

[DrBloodmoney 25,181]

10 minutes ago, Moridin83 said:

Also I agree with @DrBloodmoney that it's particularly ironic for an Ubisoft dev to make this argument. I also enjoy a good ubi checkbox adventure when I don't want to think too deeply, but for anyone associated with their particular cookie cutter formula to say this, shows a stunning lack of self awareness.

 

Word.

 

I'm pretty sure that if they took the trophies out of Assassin's Creed Valhalla, it's not suddenly going to magically turn into Elden Ring.

 

Which, not for nothing, managed to be as awesome as it was....

...and still find the time and resources to include trophies / achievements.

 

 

 

The whole "resources could be better used" argument is so ridiculous as to border on insanity.

 

Ubisoft credit scrolls are LEGENDARILY lengthy. Have you seen the credit scroll on a modern Assassin's Creed game?

I've read novels with fewer words!

 

 

If this dude thinks that not adding cheevos to the game would have suddenly freed up enough resources to make the games more interesting or "less narrow", he's having a laugh.

 

Tunic, Axiom Verge, Braid, Dust: An Elysian Tale, Spelunky, Papers Please, Thomas Was Alone, Stardew Valley, Spelunky...

...these are games made entirely (or virtually entirely) by ONE person.

AND they had trophies.

AND they each had more interesting elements and originality and panache than the average Ubisoft AAA game... made by the equivalent of the population of a medium sized city.

 

 

With all due respect, Ubidev...

...you need to have a long, hard bath with yourself.

Edited January 11 by DrBloodmoney

[Ylareth 20]

If you are a bad developer and make bad game decisions, yes, maybe the points are true. 
For me, without trophies, I would have give up gaming as a hobby a two years ago. The make me enjoy the game more. Give me a reason to play. 

[KingGuy420 3,847]

I actually sorta, kind of agree. All the time I hear people say "yeah that game looks awesome but the trophy list looks a little grindy so I'm skipping it".

 

Someone skipping a game they're interested in because of virtual icons is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard and definitely bad for gaming.

 

I like trophies but if I had a choice between the ability to earn them, or the ability for everyone to play the games they're interested in... I'm probably going to choose the latter.

 

That's not exactly what he was saying, I know, but it's still not a great thing lol.

 

But also worth noting, this guy is just some guy. He's not a ubisoft rep. He doesn't speak on behalf of the company. I don't know why people are acting like he does.

Edited January 11 by KingGuy420

[Silver-I-Chariot 1,176]

It's just some random guy, why even post his opinion here? It's not like he's holding some high position in the industry or even in Ubisoft. 

[dieselmanchild 3,534]

Perhaps Ubisoft is bad for gaming.

[Boorish 596]

deleted.

Edited February 8 by Boorish

[Arcesius 6,531]

I say this as someone who - as evidenced by my profile - clearly enjoys hunting trophies. But I agree with the first point, I just think it's worded weirdly. 

 

Trophies don't narrow a game down, but it can definitely narrow down how someone engages with a game.

 

The best challenges are the ones we create ourselves, and having pre-defined goals (i.e. what trophies tell us to do) often prevents players from going beyond those goals. I am certainly very often one of those players.

 

 

On the other hand, I have no idea what the other points are supposed to mean 🤣 eating up valuable resources... 

Edited January 11 by Arcesius

[the1andonly654 453]

Not for gaming in general, but in certain games, I'd agree. Badly designed trophies or whole lists can make an experience with a game worse than it could've been. 

As for the resources required... I highly doubt huge teams of people and millions of dollars are required to include a trophy list in any game. Ubi could just copy paste them between their games, it's what they've been doing with like half of the games themselves. 

 

But I do admit, after trophy whoring for a good while, it's good to play games without even looking at them. 

 

 

[Milktastrophe 833]

You can blame trophies for every Ubisoft purchase I've ever made. Wouldn't have played any of their games if they didn't have trophies.