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merciful84

Bioshock Infinite's main story [Possible Spoilers]

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I liked this game for the most part, but the latter parts of it seemed to serve no purpose other than to utterly confuse the heck out of the player. I understand the ending in general but its all the gorey details in between that loses me as to how it coherantly makes any sense.

IMO, a deeply complicated yet well written story should scatter the hints or ambigous moments throughout the rising action (which Infinite did indeed do) and bring it all together during the climax and conclusion to amaze the audience in a way that's nothing short of clever and genius.

Stories that did that very well were Fight Club and Virtue's Last Reward. Bioshock Infinite's ending felt more like a M. Night Shyamalan attempt at a Twilight Zone twist.

The game in general is undenialably good but I just think that Irrational Games could have done a better job at making sense of all the details instead of requiring players to playthrough a bunch of times to decipher the meanings or forge through the internet for more insightful perpectives. I guess nothing is wrong with the latter but just not on the most basic levels of understanding what in the heck is going on.

 

Anyways, hopefully Burial at Sea does a great job at connecting the dots between this and the other Bioshock games.

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I have to agree about the second half of the game, while it was perfectly enjoyable, I didnt like watching the city burn...

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What moment is it in particular that you didn't understand, or didn't like? You haven't given any specifics, you've only generalised the entire plot as being an incoherent, jumbled mess. 

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It took me 2 playthroughs to fully understand it. I got the whole multiverse thing on the first go, but I had to actually listen to all the voxophones to understand how Colombia and Rapture were connected.

Burial at Sea ties everything together nicely. Obviously, I won't spoil anything, but if you paid attention to the main story you'll understand Burial at Sea.

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I dunno about anyone else, but I "called it" for the big "who is the beardy guy" reveal about halfway through the game.

 

Now that burial at sea is out, I might go back to it and play again on PS3 at some point... I dunno what happens there but I've heard good things.

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What moment is it in particular that you didn't understand, or didn't like? You haven't given any specifics, you've only generalised the entire plot as being an incoherent, jumbled mess. 

 

I understand the whole deal with the scientist "twins" but how did they know about Elizabeth's ability to target Booker in the first place?

 

At what point did Booker decide to become a white supremist Jim Jones and why?

 

If Comstock was such a racist then why did he openly allow people of other racial groups (many of the Vox Populi) to enter Columbia in the first place? I know some of the black people were ordered there by Fink for free or minimum wage labor but others like Daisy and Irish people weren't...

 

How do people just "immigrate" to Columbia?

 

Exactly WHO IS LADY COMSTOCK and where does she really come from?

 

^ Is she the biological mother of Elizabeth from another reality but died in Booker's? (who is Elizabeth's mother?)

 

At what point in the game did Elizabeth figure out exactly who Booker really was? In the beginning, she didn't even know who her parents were.

 

Is Columbia a secret that the US government was supposed to be hiding from the public? If so, who the heck wouldn't notice the construction at some point and tell a bunch of other people? And if they knew, why would they be totally unprepared in the future when attacked by Columbia? Seriously, no spies or anything???

 

How was Comstock able to get away with twisting American history with the majority of Columbia's population? Originally most of the people there "immigrated" from America and should know what really happened at certain moments in time.

 

Did Booker get baptized before or after Elizabeth was born? If after, it wouldn't make sense for her to disappear.

 

Speaking of which...no one at the Baptism thought it was the least bit weird that a group of women who all look the same showed up and drowned somebody?!

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I understand the whole deal with the scientist "twins" but how did they know about Elizabeth's ability to target Booker in the first place?

 

At what point did Booker decide to become a white supremist Jim Jones and why?

 

If Comstock was such a racist then why did he openly allow people of other racial groups (many of the Vox Populi) to enter Columbia in the first place? I know some of the black people were ordered there by Fink for free or minimum wage labor but others like Daisy and Irish people weren't...

 

How do people just "immigrate" to Columbia?

 

Exactly WHO IS LADY COMSTOCK and where does she really come from?

 

^ Is she the biological mother of Elizabeth from another reality but died in Booker's? (who is Elizabeth's mother?)

 

At what point in the game did Elizabeth figure out exactly who Booker really was? In the beginning, she didn't even know who her parents were.

 

Is Columbia a secret that the US government was supposed to be hiding from the public? If so, who the heck wouldn't notice the construction at some point and tell a bunch of other people? And if they knew, why would they be totally unprepared in the future when attacked by Columbia? Seriously, no spies or anything???

 

How was Comstock able to get away with twisting American history with the majority of Columbia's population? Originally most of the people there "immigrated" from America and should know what really happened at certain moments in time.

 

Did Booker get baptized before or after Elizabeth was born? If after, it wouldn't make sense for her to disappear.

 

Speaking of which...no one at the Baptism thought it was the least bit weird that a group of women who all look the same showed up and drowned somebody?!

Think of Comstock the same way you think of Andrew Ryan. He was sick of America's views, and built his own city.

He allows other races there, so he can have people to do his work. Every white person in Colombia is a racist, which is why they moved there.

Lady Comstock was Comstock's wife, but he couldn't have children so he hired the Lutece Twins to steal Elizabeth from his alternate self.

Booker became the racist Comstock during the baptism. It is the constant in the story (whole constants and variables thing). Booker went there after killing all those Natives in Wounded Knee. That's where the universes split. In one, he accepts the baptism, and becomes Comstock. In the other, he refuses, and drinks his life away. Trying to forget the horrible things he did, and loses his daughter in the process.

Elizabeth drowns him at the baptism (constant), so he doesn't get the chance to choose. So none of it happens, and he just lives his life & gets to keep his daughter.

Elizabeth knew all about Booker when Songbird destroyed the tower at the end. It was holding back her powers, so without it she could see everything. She knew when she had to go, and how to stop the universes from splitting up. She had to kill Booker at the the baptism location.

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Did you listen to all the Voxophones? They are integral to understanding it.

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You see, you're doing a mistake if you're trying to understand the linearity of BioShock Infinite, since the whole meta message of the game is damn linearity. And alot of those questions are really plain out answered, I mean isn't it kind of obvious what's the deal with Lady Comstock, and the whole baptism thing?

The ending is a huge ''woah'' moment and it needs some time to process, but none of it is really jumbled up/a mess

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Think of Comstock the same way you think of Andrew Ryan. He was sick of America's views, and built his own city.

He allows other races there, so he can have people to do his work. Every white person in Colombia is a racist, which is why they moved there.

Lady Comstock was Comstock's wife, but he couldn't have children so he hired the Lutece Twins to steal Elizabeth from his alternate self.

Booker became the racist Comstock during the baptism. It is the constant in the story (whole constants and variables thing). Booker went there after killing all those Natives in Wounded Knee. That's where the universes split. In one, he accepts the baptism, and becomes Comstock. In the other, he refuses, and drinks his life away. Trying to forget the horrible things he did, and loses his daughter in the process.

Elizabeth drowns him at the baptism (constant), so he doesn't get the chance to choose. So none of it happens, and he just lives his life & gets to keep his daughter.

Elizabeth knew all about Booker when Songbird destroyed the tower at the end. It was holding back her powers, so without it she could see everything. She knew when she had to go, and how to stop the universes from splitting up. She had to kill Booker at the the baptism location.

 

Yeah, I know what his agenda as Comstock was...but I'm asking why did he become that way after being baptized? There are plenty of ways to leave an old life behind...why become a bigotted cultist?

 

I guess, if the idea was to give his own people a better life.

 

Again, I know the role that Lady Comstock played...but exactly WHO was she? We know that Booker Dewitt is really Comstock and Elizabeth is really Anna Dewitt. It was implied that she did not originate from the same reality in which the majority of the game took place, much like them.

 

Ok, and that's where I'm lost...how does someone instantenously become a racist during a baptism???

 

Ohhhh ok, I kinda see now. So you're saying that the reality where he gets baptized is the one where he becomes Comstock and the other where he rejects it, is the one where he trades away Anna for the debt. So they are seperate realities...I was thinking that they were 2 events happening in the same reality.

 

And that's another area in the story where I'm lost...no one at the baptism tried to stop them or her from drowning Booker?!

 

I see! Ok, the part about Songbird makes sense too

 

 

Did you listen to all the Voxophones? They are integral to understanding it.

 

Yeah, I listened to and collected all of them

You see, you're doing a mistake if you're trying to understand the linearity of BioShock Infinite, since the whole meta message of the game is damn linearity. And alot of those questions are really plain out answered, I mean isn't it kind of obvious what's the deal with Lady Comstock, and the whole baptism thing?

The ending is a huge ''woah'' moment and it needs some time to process, but none of it is really jumbled up/a mess

 

No it isn't the least bit obvious as to who Lady Comstock is or where she comes from. Nor why Booker became an instant racist after being baptised. Care to explain?

Edited by merciful84
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There are a lot of videos highlighting the plot holes. Many things are explained through voxophones but there are still holes in the overall story. I recommend playing through it again listening to every voxophone, and doing the same with Burial at sea ep1 and 2. Most questions should be answered at that point, but again a few plot holes will remain.

Edited by Dark_Tooth69
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Yeah, I know what his agenda as Comstock was...but I'm asking why did he become that way after being baptized? There are plenty of ways to leave an old life behind...why become a bigotted cultist?

 

I guess, if the idea was to give his own people a better life.

 

Again, I know the role that Lady Comstock played...but exactly WHO was she? We know that Booker Dewitt is really Comstock and Elizabeth is really Anna Dewitt. It was implied that she did not originate from the same reality in which the majority of the game took place, much like them.

 

Ok, and that's where I'm lost...how does someone instantenously become a racist during a baptism???

 

Ohhhh ok, I kinda see now. So you're saying that the reality where he gets baptized is the one where he becomes Comstock and the other where he rejects it, is the one where he trades away Anna for the debt. So they are seperate realities...I was thinking that they were 2 events happening in the same reality.

 

And that's another area in the story where I'm lost...no one at the baptism tried to stop them or her from drowning Booker?!

 

I see! Ok, the part about Songbird makes sense too

 

 

 

Yeah, I listened to and collected all of them

 

No it isn't the least bit obvious as to who Lady Comstock is or where she comes from. Nor why Booker became an instant racist after being baptised. Care to explain?

They never explained who she was. I assume it was some chick Comstock married, probably met her in that reality. She doesn't really play a big part, other than being the one who wanted Elizabeth locked away.

Booker became racist after the baptism, because that was his coping mechanism. He didn't want to feel responsible for what he did at Wounded Knee, so he started trying to say it wasn't his fault. It was America's Manifest Destiny, they had to die because God wanted the white man to expand. Eventually he started believing his own propaganda, because it was easier than admitting what he did was wrong. In his mind, everything he was doing after that was the right thing. He basically became a crazy, racist, cult leader.

No one at the baptism was there to stop them. The first time they went there, you saw people. But the second time, it was a different universe I guess.

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Also Elizabeth is a very powerful entity, I think she can manage her way around priests or whatever. Lady Comstock was a woman who abused her many suitors and felt guilt towards it, then Comstock offered his hand in marriage and forgave her for all her sins, that's it really, she's Miss Dewitt in the Comstock dimension. He didn't become racist right at the minute he got baptized obviously, it was a process that lead to him becoming Comstock, as the person above me said 

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This sums up a lot of my confusion in a nutshell!!! :

 


They never explained who she was. I assume it was some chick Comstock married, probably met her in that reality. She doesn't really play a big part, other than being the one who wanted Elizabeth locked away.

Booker became racist after the baptism, because that was his coping mechanism. He didn't want to feel responsible for what he did at Wounded Knee, so he started trying to say it wasn't his fault. It was America's Manifest Destiny, they had to die because God wanted the white man to expand. Eventually he started believing his own propaganda, because it was easier than admitting what he did was wrong. In his mind, everything he was doing after that was the right thing. He basically became a crazy, racist, cult leader.

No one at the baptism was there to stop them. The first time they went there, you saw people. But the second time, it was a different universe I guess.

 

Yeah, but that doesn't explain the explaination of why she became a Siren. I could of swore that it was stated that she was not of that reality. Why throw that fact in there if its not important?

 

A coping mechanism? So he just instantly began to hate people to cope for killing them in the first place? That doesn't make sense.

 

Um...but as soon as he steps through the tear, a minister is clearly right in front of him.

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Well, I think they needed to give some solidarity to the story. The baptism is considered the constant point, because the game needs it to be. They could've gone to Wonder Knee and stopped Booker, but then you open a whole new can of worms. Sure, in real life someone doesn't go through a drastic transformation like Booker to Comstock, but it's a video game. They need some of this stuff to make it work, otherwise it would all become a jumbled mess.

This sums up a lot of my confusion in a nutshell!!! :

Yeah, but that doesn't explain the explaination of why she became a Siren. I could of swore that it was stated that she was not of that reality. Why throw that fact in there if its not important?

A coping mechanism? So he just instantly began to hate people to cope for killing them in the first place? That doesn't make sense.

Um...but as soon as he steps through the tear, a minister is clearly right in front of him.

If they did say that, then I don't recall. The Lady Comstock thing is really a plothole. Especially the whole Siren thing.

As for the coping mechanism, that's just the way he thought. Remove all guilt by believing what you did was right. Eventually he poisoned his own mind with those beliefs, that he really thought it was right. Also it wasn't instant. Comstock is a lot older than Booker, so it was a result of years of thinking that way.

I thought the minister was in the first tear to the baptism? But now I do remember him in the second. I don't think that's a big deal though, wouldn't you maybe freak out after seeing a bunch of clones? On top of that, the drowning looked like a baptism, he wouldn't have noticed they were drowning him until it was too late.

In the end, it obviously has plot holes. But they're necessary plot holes. Multiverse stories always have a high risk of getting confusing. I can excuse a few plot holes, if it makes the story easier to understand.

Edited by PREDRAG-K
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Irony: Elizabeth drowns Booker to ensure that Comstock never exists but then finds yet another version of him living underwater. :P

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as the person above me said 

 

I misread this as "as the above me said" and with all this talk of alternate realities and multiverses for a moment I was like: "Woah, there are 2 versions of this guy too!"...

 

Silly brain.  :shakefist:

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He allows other races there, so he can have people to do his work. Every white person in Colombia is a racist, which is why they moved there

1919 was the year the game is set in, right? Everybody in the U.S was racist so I doubt they moved to Colombia just to be racist.

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This sums up a lot of my confusion in a nutshell!!! :

 

 

Yeah, but that doesn't explain the explaination of why she became a Siren. I could of swore that it was stated that she was not of that reality. Why throw that fact in there if its not important?

 

A coping mechanism? So he just instantly began to hate people to cope for killing them in the first place? That doesn't make sense.

 

Um...but as soon as he steps through the tear, a minister is clearly right in front of him.

She's from a world where she didn't marry/meet Comstock, I believe and Elizabeth projected her own idea and hate onto her. Remember how those guys after the first tear ''remember'' being dead? that's sort of what happened with her.

 

The coping mechanics, Predrag addressed it. Also I remember the minister being in the first tear, yes, not the second. And again even if he was Elizabeth is a super powerful being, she can obviously deal with one priest or something.

Again you shouldn't try to understand the linearity of this ending but there are no gaping flaws within either.

Edited by HaSoOoN-MHD
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So I just finished Burial at Sea (both) last night and I have to say..."that's more like it". Out of everything that they managed to tie into the original game, I was most impressed with the plasmids explaination. It made both games make complete sense now. The residents of Rapture became addicted to over splicing due to the requirement of 10 times the regular dose of ADAM found in vigors (the "new" drinkable plasmids). It also explained why "plasmids" such as shock jockey and old man winter never saw the light of day in the first game...more than likely, Andrew Ryan outlawed them once seeing the widespread side effects and reverted back to the siringes. In Bioshock Infinite, the effects of the vigors on Booker looked like an "exaggerated" effect from the plasmid splicing seen in the prior Bioshock games....makes a whole lot of sense now. Especially given the fact that the main story of Infinite barely dove into where exactly the vigors came from other than vaguely from Fink Industries.

 

One thing that I didn't altogether get is, what prevented the residence of Columbia from suffering the same fate? Did vigors simply not become as popular there, were they just being introduced, or did Fink do something in its manufactoring to lower the dosage of ADAM (based on notes seen in his study)?

Edited by merciful84
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