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cmgravekeeper

National Football League 2012 Thread

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Well as the 2011 season is over and drafts and free agency time is basically here I figured let's start a new thread....

I feel like crying after last season....Jets were a disappointment.... :'( ....I hope they can come out of this strong....and while I do feel Mark Sanchez can't bring them to a SuperBowl YET....I think we judge him too quickly because of the high expectations on his team....like they say....Drew Brees and Eli Manning weren't that amazing at first but became really good with time....I think Mark Sanchez could do that in the future....I do hope they win a SuperBowl in the near future though....

And yeah Bears got an awesome trade with the Dolphins....Dolphins gave up Brandon Marshall for 2 3rd round picks....you can't be serious.... :o

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I think free agency will have a ton of action that goes largely overlooked due to monitoring Peyton Manning. I'm really excited to see where he ends up.

As for your boy Sanchise... He will never bring them to a Super Bowl. He isn't good... It's as simple as that. As a matter of fact, he hurts the team more than Shotty ever did! The problem is that the Jets are so overcommitted that they can see that he is their problem. He needed to stay at USC and learn to be a leader and a pro quarterback and he rushed it like so many young players do. It's a shame they bowed out of the Manning race. A Jets team with him at the helm can do some serious damage!

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Some of Sanchez's problems are of his own creation. Most of them are not.

  • Mark Sanchez isn't responsible for the Jets having the worst right tackle in football last season and doing nothing to address that situation.
  • Mark Sanchez isn't responsible for injuries to the running backs and to other parts of the offensive line last season (most particularly Nick Mangold).
  • Mark Sanchez isn't responsible for the hideously atrocious playcalling last season -- for example, calling 64 dropbacks to pass against a team that can't stop the run but does an excellent job rushing the passer (hello Super Bowl champs).
  • Mark Sanchez isn't responsible for the offensive coordinator trying to prove he's smarter than everyone else as to try and land himself a coaching job.

He'll never be in the elite tier of Peyton/Brady/Brees/Rodgers, but he doesn't have to be. As one sees with a huge number of other teams, the offense needs to be more tailored to his strengths and less tailored to his weaknesses. So he doesn't have Brett Favre's arm -- he doesn't have to. So he doesn't have Chad Pennington's accuracy and avoidance of turnovers -- he doesn't have to. He's an excellent play-action passer, and he's very good making plays with his feet whether by running for first downs or extending plays by getting out of the pocket. If you tailor the offense to that by employing a heavy dose of the run (so the play-action becomes effective) and using the bootlegs and roll-outs that have been effective his first two years, he'll be just fine and the numbers will follow. You don't win four road playoff games by accident -- very few NFL quarterbacks have ever done that, yet Sanchez did that in his first two seasons and won in some pretty challenging spots against some very good teams.

As for the Manning sweepstakes, are you high? Peyton Manning was never coming to the Jets, was never going to seriously consider signing there. There wasn't anything positive for the Jets to accomplish by hanging around hoping for that to happen.

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Typical Fan I was speaking of...

Blame his abysmal passer rating and shitty TD to INT ratio on an offensive lineman, injured players and the OC...

By the way, didn't he only complete 30 passes on that 59 pass game? Goin to blame the receivers too? They're the only ones you left off of the "Mark would be better if" list.

Also, I'm not high. I said its a shame they bowed out because Peyton would make them a better team. I never said they had a chance.

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Why am I a typical fan, because I don't blindly follow the beliefs you think are appropriate? Because I don't blindly obey the memes propogated by you and/or other non-Jets fans including those in the "popular media"? Your tone and verbiage clearly indicate you're not a Jets fan (almost certainly a Giants fan, I would theorize) and I suspect you probably didn't watch too many Jets games other than the Christmas Eve debacle. So let me elaborate and educate you:

The offensive line's ineptitude is a root cause of many of the other issues. When you can't effectively run the football -- or your playcalling refuses to do so -- defenses can cheat against the pass and don't have to be kept honest. They can ignore running backs, they can ignore play-action, they can draw up exotic blitz packages and do any number of other things to disrupt the timing and rhythm of the offense itself. If the blocking is subpar -- and Wayne Hunter was really good for those "ole!" blocks where he turns and watches a defensive end go by and obliterate his QB before he's ready to do anything -- that wrecks the entire passing game.... either the QB gets sacked (or strip-sacked), he has to run for his life and ad lib the entire play, or he has to simply get rid of the ball and hope for a positive outcome.

Mark Sanchez was turning the ball over a ton in those games where his offensive line wasn't playing well (particularly the stretch where Nick Mangold was out/injured) and in those games where the team simply didn't make a serious attempt at a running game. He's not entirely blameless, but I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that he should be blamed and punished for it. Quarterbacks (like coaches) get too much credit when things go well and too much blame when things go poorly. I believe that if you fix the other issues, Sanchez will be just fine. Think about how much better Alex Smith became in San Francisco when they adjusted the offense to mask what he did poorly and accentuate what he did well. He went from a "bust" whose team drafted a QB at the top of the 2nd round to replace him to a guy who likely is going to get a pretty nice, new contract -- either to keep him a 49er for the next few years or because a team that strikes out on the Manning and Flynn sweepstakes will throw money at him.

And no, I'm not going to particularly blame the receivers for the offense's failings. I prefer to levy the blame where I think it belongs, which is Wonder Boy, Former Offensive Coordinator Extraordinaire Brian Schottenheimer and the atrocious parts of the offensive line (most particularly RT Wayne Hunter). Not that I think the receiving corps are a bunch of world-beaters -- for that matter, I think they were rather pedestrian and very old at a position where you need speed and youth -- and not that I think they should have been kept intact (which thankfully they won't), but I don't see a good reason to assign them a particularly large portion of the blame.

Also, I'm not high. I said its a shame they bowed out because Peyton would make them a better team. I never said they had a chance.

If they didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of landing him, why should they stay in the "Manning Sweepstakes" in the first place? Peyton Manning would make roughly two-thirds of NFL franchises better.... but that doesn't mean all of those teams should be chasing him.

There's nothing to be gained by conducting exercises in futility. Expending resources striving for outcomes that can never happen would be stupidity at its finest. Neither should be pursued by any NFL franchise, and neither should be desired of any NFL franchise by any other team's fans, even if you hate said team.

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First off, I'm a patriots fan but work an live on long island... So I had the pleasure of watching every Jets game due to cable restrictions.

You have yet to explain why he has subpar passer rating and throws so many picks. Pressure or not, it's still his fault. Granted some are tipped balls, but many were thrown right into the defenders hands. Let's also keep in mind this was his best season statistically and he still was subpar. I just can't wait for next year when they can't blame Shotty anymore... I think more people will be saying what I am telling you. I'd say you were right if this was his rookie year or second year, but he's 3 years in and not looking like he's in control when on the field and more importantly he doesn't look like he has improved much if any.

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Could his decision making be better? Absolutely. Are there times where he tries to make the big play instead of taking a safer checkdown? Damn right he could.... but there are a lot of QBs who do the same thing. (paging Mr. Favre, Mr. Brett Favre)

I blame an offensive line whose pass protection was so often piss-poor that Sanchez barely had time to set his feet, let alone scan the field and make a quality throw. Do you recall the Baltimore/Jets game from early last season where the Ravens had three defensive TDs, two of them on blindside sacks of Sanchez where the ball came out and a Baltimore defender simply ran into the endzone untouched? What would you have had Sanchez do, take the three-step drop and curl up into the fetal position as not to get murdered and/or cough up the football for the inability of the right side of the offensive line to slow a rusher?

I blame a (thankfully former) offensive coordinator who seldom made an effort at establishing a running game and forcing a defense to respect that and the play-action game. The Jets did a very good job of running the football during Rex Ryan's first two seasons, and the passing game is predicated on that.

If you run the football well, the play-action game becomes very effective. If you run the football well, defenses don't zero in on Sanchez and can't simply hit him with blitzes from the outside and thus curtail his ability to move around and make plays with his feet. If you run the football well, you aren't asking a quarterback to try and win a game on his own when Sanchez isn't at that level. If you run the football well, you wear down the other team's defense and make them less effective in general. If you run the football well, you control the clock and put more pressure on the other team to produce (and less pressure on your own offense to force plays to try and get something).

Sanchez is not an elite quarterback. He's not even in that second tier of guys. But he can be an effective QB if he gets some help from the pieces around him. The Jets won 21 games his first two seasons in the League -- 25 if you count the playoffs. The mere idea that the Jets should cut him now and start over from scratch (when there's no chance they'll land anything worthwhile either at their draft slot or on the free agent/trade market) is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

The Jets have many issues. Ball control and the quarterback's role in them is absolutely an issue.... but it isn't very high on my list of things that need to be fixed.

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Anything I would have to say would be what acasser already said....Sanchez isn't great....he's decent....you can't blame the failure of a team on the mistakes of one person....this if football not basketball....it's a sport where it takes a team to do well....during the season Tom Brady was out due to an injury....the Patriots still did well....it's not just about the QB....he's still got years ahead of him so judging him know and saying he completely sucks is stupid.....

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I'm actually pretty stoked that Seattle (I'm from Washington) nabbed Flynn. I doubt he's gonna take Seattle to the playoffs right away but he definitely has the potential to grow with Seattle's super young team. In a year or two Seattle might be actually be attention worthy... especially if their defense stays as potent as it was last season. Jackson's inability to stay calm under pressure was really hard to watch, hopefully Flynn won't just chuck the ball as far as he can every time someone's in his face.

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So... I have to ask how the Jets fans feel about Tebowmania in the Meadowlands. Thoughts?!

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So... I have to ask how the Jets fans feel about Tebowmania in the Meadowlands. Thoughts?!

Hopefully he leads the Jets to an average season so he doesn't become the only thing people want to talk about :P

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So... I have to ask how the Jets fans feel about Tebowmania in the Meadowlands. Thoughts?!

I just wrote a lengthy piece on this topic on another sports-related forum for another gaming-related website. Let me be lazy and play the cut-and-paste game and simply text-wall here, too:

I'm past my initial reaction, which was to scratch my head in a befuddled daze. Having had a few moments to think about the move and read a few reactions from local bloggers and beat reporters, here's what I think:

Tim Tebow is not the starting QB for the Jets and will not be the starting QB anytime this season barring an injury. They don't have the personnel and pieces around him to run anything close to what makes him successful. They don't have a good enough offensive line and running back corps to run what Denver did last season, and the shotgun spread he played in at U.Florida doesn't work in the NFL -- defenses at the NFL level have too much speed and talent, whereas at the college level you simply "out-talent" lesser opponents and beat them on raw skill.

Tim Tebow is an upgrade at backup QB over the guy currently holding the job -- former Lions backup Drew Stanton. That says as much about Stanton as it does about Tebow.

Tim Tebow will probably be asked to fill the role Brad Smith used to play for the Jets before he departed in free agency last off-season. You'll see him for a handful of snaps under center running the Jets' variant of the Wildcat, and I think he'll be reasonably effective there. You might see him take some snaps at running back or split out as a receiver -- he definitely has the physical tools to do that pretty well. I think he might even get the opportunity to return kicks and punts. Bear in mind that the Jets' new OC is Tony Sparano, the guy who brought the Wildcat to the NFL in Miami.

Tebow will be a visible part of the Jets' offense and have a role, but Mark Sanchez will still be the starting QB. Tim Tebow needs an offense tailored to him to a substantial degree to be an effective NFL quarterback, because there are simply things he does not do well that any NFL quarterback has to be able to do well to be successful in an "ordinary" scheme.

As for the trade itself, this is classic Mike Tannenbaum. He is willing to bring in talented players who have non-football issues (Antonio Cromartie, Braylon Edwards, Santonio Holmes, Plaxico Burress just to name some of the higher-profile guys), especially if the acquisition price is reasonable. The Jets haven't given up much of anything to bring the guy in -- a 4th-round pick is pocket change in the NFL world, and Tebow's contract is very friendly (which means a lot to a team that is close to the cap as the Jets are).

I'm not sure I love the deal, but I understand why it was made and I'll give it a chance. It could backfire spectacuarly -- especially if the fans start clamoring for Tebow to start at QB and Sanchez to be benched -- but it could also add an extra dimension to the Jets' offense that would be very difficult for defenses to deal with. It also looks like it's a deal that looks down the road. Two years from now, Tebow will be entering the last season of his rookie deal. Two years from now, the cap ramifications from releasing (or trading) Mark Sanchez become palatable. I imagine the Jets will have a decision to make at that time.... and if both guys are playing well at that point there's ample opportunity to recoup a nice little haul on the trade market.

Does that work for you?

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Just thought I'd add a little something here:

10517112-san-francisco-49ers.jpg

As you were :P

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Huge Bucs fan here. Pack would be my 2nd favorite team. Not expecting too much out of the Bucs this year but better than last season, some good offseason moves, maybe 7-9. Hope they have the NFL Sunday Ticket app this season on the PS3! Before we moved away from FL, always had season tickets, miss going to the games.

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I officially give up on the Jets this year. That was a horrendous game last Thursday.

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I officially give up on the Jets this year. That was a horrendous game last Thursday.

As a die-hard Patriots fan, even I felt bad for the Jets. They did not have to much be thankful for on Thursday. It was great to see the Pats dominate yet another team, but seriously I felt bad to see the Jets Mark Sanchez make SOO many mistakes. The slamming himself right into his offensive lineman's butt was sad but histarical all at the same time. I used to hate the Jets when they were relevant, but now I have sympathy for them and hope they can somehow sneak into the playoffs at 8-8.

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As a die-hard Patriots fan, even I felt bad for the Jets. They did not have to much be thankful for on Thursday. It was great to see the Pats dominate yet another team, but seriously I felt bad to see the Jets Mark Sanchez make SOO many mistakes. The slamming himself right into his offensive lineman's butt was sad but histarical all at the same time. I used to hate the Jets when they were relevant, but now I have sympathy for them and hope they can somehow sneak into the playoffs at 8-8.

Haha yeah. Honestly the GM is terrible and Rex is an amazing Defensive Coach, not a Head Coach. So many bad decisions and lost talent over the years. And to think as soon as Jets were hitting relevance a 2-3 years ago they messed it up. If only the Jets had RG3. :( And I doubt they'll make the playoffs playing like this lolz.

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Haha yeah. Honestly the GM is terrible and Rex is an amazing Defensive Coach, not a Head Coach. So many bad decisions and lost talent over the years. And to think as soon as Jets were hitting relevance a 2-3 years ago they messed it up. If only the Jets had RG3. :( And I doubt they'll make the playoffs playing like this lolz.

Naturally, it is great to come into every season knowing you will win the division, but a little competition would be nice. It looks like the Dolphins are going to be that challenge in the future. The Bills are pathetic and it appears the Jets are as well. I think Brady may play to his mid 40's and maybe near to his 50's. I don't think he will ever retire willingly. It will take being cut or suffering a serious injury for him to retire. He has a natural talent and even in his mid to late 30's he just gets better and better with no signs of slowing. He is a legend. Another reason I think he will be able to play later is because (I'll be honest) the referees protect him somewhat. Regardless of how late he plays, my biggest fear is that whenever he leaves the Patriots will drop of to mere mediocrity. I hope we have the people in place so that he has a true elite successor. Ryan Mallet could be that guy, but I just don't see him staying around if Brady keeps playing. Without Brady, the Patriots went 11-5 under the lowly Matt Cassel, so mediocrity is not a certainty, but as a Pats fan, it is one of my fears. Until then, I hope they keep resume winning Super Bowls!!! lol

Edited by DanielVT
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Naturally, it is great to come into every season knowing you will win the division, but a little competition would be nice. It looks like the Dolphins are going to be that challenge in the future. The Bills are pathetic and it appears the Jets are as well. I think Brady may play to his mid 40's and maybe near to his 50's. I don't think he will ever retire willingly. It will take being cut or suffering a serious injury for him to retire. He has a natural talent and even in his mid to late 30's he just gets better and better with no signs of slowing. He is a legend. Another reason I think he will be able to play later is because (I'll be honest) the referees protect him somewhat. Regardless of how late he plays, my biggest fear is that whenever he leaves the Patriots will drop of to mere mediocrity. I hope we have the people in place so that he has a true elite successor. Ryan Mallet could be that guy, but I just don't see him staying around if Brady keeps playing. Without Brady, the Patriots went 11-5 under the lowly Matt Cassel, so mediocrity is not a certainty, but as a Pats fan, it is one of my fears. Until then, I hope they keep resume winning Super Bowls!!! lol

Yeah it would take something like what happened to Peyton Manning's scenario to get Brady to be out of the picture. Without an amazing QB things begin to fall apart usually. Plus I believe Belichick would probably retire after Brady is gone too. Pats will keep winning the AFC East until either Brady leaves or another team gets their act together. I'm hoping the Jets can fix stuff up soon before its really too late. I hate that they brought in Tebow and really don't want the Dolphins replacing the Jets as the usual 2nd place AFC East team. -___- But yeah at least no one has to worry about the Bills. :P

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Yeah it would take something like what happened to Peyton Manning's scenario to get Brady to be out of the picture. Without an amazing QB things begin to fall apart usually. Plus I believe Belichick would probably retire after Brady is gone too. Pats will keep winning the AFC East until either Brady leaves or another team gets their act together. I'm hoping the Jets can fix stuff up soon before its really too late. I hate that they brought in Tebow and really don't want the Dolphins replacing the Jets as the usual 2nd place AFC East team. -___- But yeah at least no one has to worry about the Bills. :P

I really feel bad for Tebow. He is such a stand-up quality guy. His football skills may leave something to be desired, but let's face it, he led his team against all odds into the playoffs and past the Steelers. His pass in overtime was amazing. People say it was all luck, but if that is true, he certainly had luck following him play after play all season long! All I am saying is that he one of the best QB's in college football for a reason. He deserves the chance to get better. People judge him so quickly, but the Jets have not given him a chance. He did a fantastic yet unorthadox job with the Broncos. Some team like the Chiefs or Jaguars should make him their starting QB. At the very least he will draw fans in and jersey sales!!! :D

Edited by DanielVT
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