Takara Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) @Hailst0rm_2 Whilst I can agree on that, the $700 computer is more possible in the USA than it is in the UK/EU, simply due to component prices! And I'd not dare touching 4K properly with any $100 GPU. Simply because a $100 GPU won't have the VRAM to even load the textures correctly, I'd recommend sticking to 1080p gaming of average quality or 720p of higher quality for that sort of money. (But then again, quite a lot of PS3 games and titles are 720p or 1080i, most people don't recognise that ) Also, building a competent gaming rig, that can play games, record and or stream them too is still quite a tall order of many 'gaming' rigs. Sure things have changed in the past few years with AMD/Nvidia are now offering shadow-like facilities to their GPUs which allow you to record or stream with less resources, or you can compromise on the actual games quality (as you have graphical customisation) so that you can stream, but at the PS4 can 'natively' do it without much fuss. A PS4 can be had for the £320 mark, to build a computer rivalling it I'd still be wanting to double that cost. Personally. (But I can definitely agree that PC gaming, in terms of computer price itself, has become a lot more competitive and we can mostly thank the console generations for doing that too. I'd never spend £2.5k on a gaming PC again, but I can safely say mine will see me through quite the number of years yet, even having a crack at 4K which the PS4 and Xbox One will never pull off.) P.S. Thanks for the civilised discussion, might sound silly, but there's way too many people ready to take a punt at each other simply because they have 'fan-boy' like traits to their chosen gaming preferences. Lol P.S.S. I'd quote you, but, the quote button seems to be broken for me. Doesn't ever pickup quotes in the full editor or quick reply boxes >.> Edited April 1, 2015 by Takara 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinlanLJ Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 It doesn't really stop me. I would love to go back to PC ... not that I wouldn't play PS games, but there are some things like shooters that are easier with a mouse for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starcrunch061 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 No, having to constantly upgrade a PC every time a game with high system requirements is released stops me from buying a PC. With a console, I can pick any game I feel like for it off the shelf and be confident that it will work as advertised. Less money I have to spend on hardware means more money I can spend on software. Also, PC gamers by and large act like fucking douches about their alleged superiority and that turns me right off. Agreed on all points, particularly the last. I'm so sick of PC owners acting like more processing power somehow alleviates the often-crappy gameplay inherent in the games present. A console lasts me 7-10 years, and the games get better as it goes, with no need for additional upgrades. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killivincent Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) Agreed on all points, particularly the last. I'm so sick of PC owners acting like more processing power somehow alleviates the often-crappy gameplay inherent in the games present. A console lasts me 7-10 years, and the games get better as it goes, with no need for additional upgrades. My thoughts exactly. Oh and Takara is right, feels like nowdays everyone who doesn't agree on what you say is a fanboy of the opposing side. Haha Edited April 1, 2015 by killivincent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hailst0rm_2 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 @Hailst0rm_2 Whilst I can agree on that, the $700 computer is more possible in the USA than it is in the UK/EU, simply due to component prices! And I'd not dare touching 4K properly with any $100 GPU. Simply because a $100 GPU won't have the VRAM to even load the textures correctly, I'd recommend sticking to 1080p gaming of average quality or 720p of higher quality for that sort of money. (But then again, quite a lot of PS3 games and titles are 720p or 1080i, most people don't recognise that ) Also, building a competent gaming rig, that can play games, record and or stream them too is still quite a tall order of many 'gaming' rigs. Sure things have changed in the past few years with AMD/Nvidia are now offering shadow-like facilities to their GPUs which allow you to record or stream with less resources, or you can compromise on the actual games quality (as you have graphical customisation) so that you can stream, but at the PS4 can 'natively' do it without much fuss. A PS4 can be had for the £320 mark, to build a computer rivalling it I'd still be wanting to double that cost. Personally. (But I can definitely agree that PC gaming, in terms of computer price itself, has become a lot more competitive and we can mostly thank the console generations for doing that too. I'd never spend £2.5k on a gaming PC again, but I can safely say mine will see me through quite the number of years yet, even having a crack at 4K which the PS4 and Xbox One will never pull off.) P.S. Thanks for the civilised discussion, might sound silly, but there's way too many people ready to take a punt at each other simply because they have 'fan-boy' like traits to their chosen gaming preferences. Lol P.S.S. I'd quote you, but, the quote button seems to be broken for me. Doesn't ever pickup quotes in the full editor or quick reply boxes >.> Oh I never knew PC components were that much more expensive for EU/UK. And you're right about the $100 GPU being terrible for 4k I'd never put one in a 4K build lol. I meant that would be the minimum for what you need to stay competitive with current gen consoles (1080p 30FPS on most games) if you look at sites who go into detail about hardware and performance in games, little budget cards like the 750ti and 260x do a great job in offering a console level experience. I mentioned the best price/performance starts at around $700 because that leaves $300+ to slap in an incredibly powerful GPU like a 290x, you'd really getting the most bang for your buck there. I'm not really familiar with what kind of performance you would need for streaming games (I figured the 8GB of RAM thats standard for PC builds is enough to handle any background tasks) but your right, PS4 does do it without any issues. btw no problem, I enjoy discussions like this. It's a shame when that happens because I see a lot of ignorance coming from both sides and no one wants to really hear anything else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neputyunu Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) P.S. Thanks for the civilised discussion, might sound silly, but there's way too many people ready to take a punt at each other simply because they have 'fan-boy' like traits to their chosen gaming preferences. Lol Oh and Takara is right, feels like nowdays everyone who doesn't agree on what you say is a fanboy of the opposing side. Haha btw no problem, I enjoy discussions like this. It's a shame when that happens because I see a lot of ignorance coming from both sides and no one wants to really hear anything else. Also agree to this. Sometimes its really hard to have a nice conversation.... But there is one point I would like to questionate. [...] little budget cards like the 750ti and 260x do a great job in offering a console level experience. For what do I need a PC, when I want a "console level experience"? Also it isnt possible to declare which hardware you exatcly need to get this experience. My Laptop can run - as example - Mafia2, but cant run Neptunia rebirth1. Neps: RECOMMENDED: OS: Windows 7 or 8 (64bit) or newer Processor: 3GHz Intel i3 or equivalent Memory: 6 GB RAM Graphics: DirectX 10.x or OpenGL 3.3 with video card with 1GB ram and support for v4 shaders DirectX: Version 10 Mafia2: RECOMMENDED: OS: Microsoft Windows XP (SP2 or later) / Windows Vista / Windows 7 Processor: 2.4 GHz Quad Core processor RAM: 2GB Video Card: nVidia GeForce 9800 GTX / ATI Radeon HD 3870 or better Sound Card: 100% DirectX 9.0c compatible sound card My Specs: Core2Duo T6600 2.2GHz 4GB RAM ATI Mobility Radeon HD4670, 512MB, DirectX9.0c At the moment Im a bit struggling with myself... Starcraft2 Addon will come Soon... My laptop was able to handle the Basegame (Wings of Liberty), but in the first Addon (Heart of the Swarm) they raised graphics on all detaillevels and my laptop cant handle it anymore. Specifically when Im playing Zerg. The creep kills my laptop in less than five minutes. I want this game, but I dont want to buy a new Laptop just because this... And I dont want to build a tower. Needs to much space and its own screen. I prefer using a laptop WHILE Im playing on my PS3. And for all the other things Im doing on a PC Im fine with my current specs. Yeah okay, the RAM could be more, because Im using lots of tabs (30+) in Chrome. Never thought about things like that on a console... Im still going to be fine some years with my PS3. What I would like to say with that is, I dont think the 750TI can give you a "console level experience" for long, because PC-hardware outdates way too fast, imo. It would be better to spent 60€ more and pick the GTX960. But the problem here is - at least for me - that Im thinking then "Hey, then I can also upgrade the CPU. I mean, a PentiumG with a GTX960? tsk..." but the step to an i3 is maybe to small in comparison. Im generally skipping i5 because, they have no HyperThreading and for some bucks more I could get the Xeon v3 1230 which is basicly an i7 4770 with disabled iGPU and a bit cheaper ... then I need a new PSU too, the Mainboard is too lowbudget, also could pick up RAMs with less latency, etc... No! Just no! I dont want to build a PC. Now you guys know why The last PC I build had just a GTX760 and I sold the PC a month later with 200€ minus... because the PC basicly f*cked me. Got some billls I have forgotten about. Also the BitFenix Prodigy (Mini-ITX) was still too big for me. ... I would prefer a PC that is small like my PS3SS! Here for comparison. But usefull laptops are expensive today too. I got mine for around 600€ back then and it is from the gamingclass. Seriously, back then I have played everything on max settings. Today you find for 600€ some low-midrange laptops with a "meh-point" everywhere. Like... * just 4GB RAM * 4GB RAM but mid-range GPU * 8GB RAM with low-range GPU * 8GB RAMs but just one module, so no dualchannel * no dualchannel and lowrange GPU ... Like laptops today are designed to upgrade them anyway. I mean, a SSD is a must, dont want to miss it. Even my old Lady here profited enormiously from the SSD. And its just one of the old SSDs for Sata2... And today nearly no laptop has LINE-IN (the blue port from the soundcard)... oh, and some have combiports (how Im using a headset there? Please dont say I should us the integrated Mic ) ... just meh. =/ And many of them come with FreeDOS ... oh come on... So, yeah... should I spent 600€+ just for Starcraft2 (and Cities: Skyline)? .. hmm... =/ Ah, and I hope these guys that tried to fight me last time arent here anymore. I mean... Im not here for fighting... -.- This is a forum, not an arena... Edit: Im also thinking a lot about Barebone-PCs. These are small PCs you can hide behind a screen. There are models with i7 4770R and Intel Iris Pro 5200. Would have enough power for me, but they are expensive like "entrance-level--gaming-laptops" nowadays Specifically Im thinking about the Zotac ZBOX EI750 Edited April 2, 2015 by Neputyunu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakk55 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 The biggest issue that keeps me from being a PC gamer is the constant need to upgrade the hardware to have the needed requirements to play a game. On the other hand, I still use my old PS3 from 2007 up to today and enjoying playing games released today on that console. The trophies is actually just a welcome bonus. Also, some of my gripes about PC Gamers complaining that PC has the best graphics, well.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandiBunni Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 The biggest issue that keeps me from being a PC gamer is the constant need to upgrade the hardware to have the needed requirements to play a game. On the other hand, I still use my old PS3 from 2007 up to today and enjoying playing games released today on that console. The trophies is actually just a welcome bonus. Also, some of my gripes about PC Gamers complaining that PC has the best graphics, well.. As others have already pointed out, in detail, you don't have to constantly upgrade to play every game that comes out. If you shop smart, and do a good job at picking out your parts, you can build a machine for around $600 to $700 dollars that can play most games out there at high or even max settings just fine. The more demanding games you might need to lower the settings from max or high if you want a better framerate, but they certainly wouldn't be unplayable, even then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegirlruka Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 The only games that I really enjoy on the PC are RTS games and an occasional free MMO (I'm still playing Total Annihilation 15 years later). Playing any other genre just feels... unnatural to me. I also don't really care about graphics as much as story and gameplay and to me PC games in general seem like they're more about graphics. I know that there are exceptions to the rule, and for those exceptions I'll usually play the game (as long as it isn't slated to come out on a console). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havok__84 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Money is what keeps me from doing any kind of PC gaming, the cost isn't worth it to me since nearly every game I would play on PC I could get on a console. I know the PC Master Race people would argue the game looks better and runs smoother but for someone who doesn't pay attention to every single little detail it doesn't bother me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrslayer Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 The topic is about trophies/achievements but mostly people argue about pc/console superiority. For me trophy hunting is important but the the fun I have while playing the game is more important. See it like building a jigsaw puzzle. Some people say it is stupid to spend days for a wall picture but others tell their admiration when they see the 6000 piece thing hanging on my wall. Like puzzles, getting platinium and other hard trophies require patience and skill. When you get them you feel the sense of accomplishment that others cannot feel. And thanks to psnprofiles, I have the chance to compare my trophy score with nearly 2 million players. I also like competing very much so seeing myself climbing the ranks every week is another satisfaction. Someone said steam achievements are better than trophies. Pls explain to me how they can be better since there is no difference between them (no score). Is it normal to earn same thing when you finish tutorial and when you make 10 headshots in a row? And since there is no score for them, there is no ranking sites. Actually there are Ranking Sites with a pretty nice Community of Achievement Hunters. http://astats.astats.nl/astats/ They try their best to keep the Rankings clean from Cheaters too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigma999 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I used to play on my PC since the ps1 & ps2 era's, well mostly 2D games or using emulators, because my PC was very old even then. Most games I played on my PC was the doom series, red alert franchise, and an indie side scroller game where you control a pirate cat "forgot the game name" and sonic adventure DX was the last game I ever played on PC. then after the day we got a ps3 I completely stopped playing on the PC. I don't care if PC have the best graphics in the world or these master race bull crap, I personally find gaming consoles are more natural to play video games on, while PC is best for browsing the web or watching youtube and movies. Not to mention on PC each badass game need it's requirements to run which I can't handle paying for all those, and on my PC's case which we never upgrade since the day we got it, I don't think it will ever gonna run current games even on the worst setting possible. But I'm still happy with it when it comes to surfing the web. I also have an acer laptop, and last time I check, it can only run few games made in 2008 or so at low standard judging by it's spec's. The pc game 2D side-scroller pirate cat must be "Claw". Epic game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobby Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 My only reason for not PC gaming is that it's not set up well to game on at the moment Hopefully soon I can get a desk and start again though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starcrunch061 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) A Gamer who does not consider all forms of gaming valid is a Gamer who need to examine their title Of course. But I don't think this a question of validity (and honestly, the only people who really throw out the "valid" comment are PC trolls). I can respect that these people are the minority (I know plenty of great PC gamers, being that I'm the faculty adviser of the Iowa State University gaming group). But they are a vocal minority - they infiltrate so much stuff (look at the Amazon reviews just ruined by these people). It's a question of preference, together with time and monetary expenditure. I enjoy sitting on my couch, in my living room, with my controller in hand, and on my big ass HD T.V. Plain, simple, and worry free. That's how you game. I couldn't have said it better myself. Edited April 2, 2015 by starcrunch061 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I've always preferred home consoles, PC's are too expensive (if you want a fast one with beautiful graphics), and I don't like emulating. A physical collection is much more impressive than a file with rare games. Just imagine something happening to your computer and not being able to play all those games any more because they were just in the computer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 For the most part. I've been on PlayStation since PS1, so there's that. Right now Sony is completely ignoring us and fail to give us what we want, but in the hope that some day we'll have the ability to change our Online ID's, have a decent reputation system, an improved bio section and an overall tidier interface/experience, I will remain on PlayStation. And more customization/social features... Xbox have a mini avatar thing for gods sake. It's kinda silly but I want it. Up your game Sony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOTP Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Having gone back and forth between the two over the years, I would now say that trophies would make me stay. Steam achievements are nothing to get excited about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hailst0rm_2 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) At the moment Im a bit struggling with myself... Starcraft2 Addon will come Soon... My laptop was able to handle the Basegame (Wings of Liberty), but in the first Addon (Heart of the Swarm) they raised graphics on all detaillevels and my laptop cant handle it anymore. Specifically when Im playing Zerg. The creep kills my laptop in less than five minutes. I want this game, but I dont want to buy a new Laptop just because this... And I dont want to build a tower. Needs to much space and its own screen. I prefer us What I would like to say with that is, I dont think the 750TI can give you a "console level experience" for long, because PC-hardware outdates way too fast, imo. Well the problem here is you're using Laptops and barebone-PC's to compare it to desktops. There are a lot of factors which hold these things back from being adequate gaming platforms compared to a console (heat, limited ventilation, battery life, the use of low power mobile GPU's and CPU's, ect), they become outdated very quickly. I'm actually surprised you were able to run Mafia 2 on that since those specs were referring to a desktop CPU and GPU. As for the stuff about the upgrades your PC in reality doesn't become as outdated as you might think, what happens is your PC is not well rounded spec wise and begins relying on the ability of games to scale back for hardware it wasn't built for to run games. Games are being designed for this new generation of consoles which have 8GB of RAM, and slightly powerful GPU and CPU. So you wouldn't want to be gaming on something with 4GB RAM for example, it may work but its not guaranteed to be smooth on every game. If your building a desktop to compete with a console you need to know the things that are important in a gaming PC. You need to use the right parts to make sure your PC is in line with the console market so there's no weaknesses that could pose a problem in the future. 1) You need a decent CPU (though your CPU isn't as important as your GPU it will limit your maximum framerate in games) A Pentium G is a low end processor that only has two cores. Modern consoles have a total of 8 cores though they're not nearly as powerful as the ones found in a modern PC two cores is not going to cut it for every game and I'd never recommend it to anyone. What you should go for is at least an i3. With that your only limitation on these will be your PC may not be able to achieve 60fps in every game released but its just enough power to go head to head with consoles and deliver a similar or better experience. These are the cheapest ones for around $100 Next up there's AMD's FX 8000 series processors which have 8 cores and plenty of power for multitasking and gaming. These are much more advanced than what is used in consoles, are capable up doubling and tripling framerates compared to consoles when paired with a good GPU and are normally $120-160 here. They will last you just as long as your consoles will I guarantee. After that there are i5's which are top of the line in the gaming world, they may only have 4 cores with no hyper threading but intel cores are much more powerful than AMD, they're really only useful to those who want to play above 60FPS (on a 144hz monitor for example) and should only be paired with a high end GPU. Anything above that (i7's, Xeons ect.) are unecessary and will only provide minimal improvements with a high cost. They're about $200+ 2)The GPU This is the most important component for gaming and there are only two brands you should consider, AMD and Nvidia. Intel graphics are a terrible choice for gaming, video games are not intel's main focus so they are going to give you an extremely bad experience. It can run games but you're likely to experience lag, glitches. STAY AWAY! I cannot stress that enough lol 3)RAM is RAM, dual channel or single channel none of that is important for gaming. You wont get any significant performance gain from high performance RAM compared to a standard low cost stick. Just go for DDR3. 4)SSD's Though they're amazingly fast they are not necessary. Consoles still use HDD's so you can too. Unfortunately size is a problem for PC's, the parts are bulkier compared to consoles and a desktop doesn't get much more compact than a mini-itx. They do have slimmer cases like this one But that's the most your are going to get without compromising on the power or paying a fortune. I have a full size tower and what I like to do instead is just use Steams in home streaming feature with my tablet or laptop like this: My PC does all the processing and sends it to my tablet where I hook it up through bluetooth with a PS4 controller and play wherever I want around the house. I even hook it up to my living room TV sometimes, its really nice. Edit: Deleted most of the quote text cause this became a mammoth of a post LOL Edited April 2, 2015 by Hailst0rm_2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavani_ Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 1- i love my consoles 2- i don't care about graphics and 60fps 3- i don't want to be part of that community 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseHoldOn Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) 3- i don't want to be part of that community For what it's worth, I've made a lot of fantastic friends on Steam. Far more than I ever have on the Playstation or Xbox. Call me simple, but the lack of a keyboard and/or the ability to "post" directly on the console makes having people on your friends list pointless unless you intend to play games with them... or share one or two line messages every so often. Disliking the PC community because of the "master race" commentary, is like disliking the console community because of the Sony fans that tell you to kill yourself for owning an Xbox. Ever spend more than a few minutes on the official Playstation or Xbox websites/discussion boards? It's alarmingly bad. Third party sites like PSNProfiles are the best place to go, because half of the people that go to the official sites are either there because a. they're disgruntled, have a problem with a product, and don't know where else to go (so how pleasant are they going to be really?) or b. they're too lazy or don't care enough to find a better community, which doesn't bode well personality-wise. With that in mind, the official Steam forums are horrible. But the community features on the service allow you to weed out the bad eggs and only deal with the people you like pretty effectively. Edited April 2, 2015 by PleaseHoldOn 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavani_ Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) For what it's worth, I've made a lot of fantastic friends on Steam. Far more than I ever have on the Playstation or Xbox. Call me simple, but the lack of a keyboard and/or the ability to "post" directly on the console makes having people on your friends list pointless unless you intend to play games with them... or share one or two line messages every so often. Disliking the PC community because of the "master race" commentary, is like disliking the console community because of the Sony fans that tell you to kill yourself for owning an Xbox. Ever spend more than a few minutes on the official Playstation or Xbox websites/discussion boards? It's alarmingly bad. Third party sites like PSNProfiles are the best place to go, because half of the people that go to the official sites are either there because a. they're disgruntled, have a problem with a product, and don't know where else to go (so how pleasant are they going to be really?) or b. they're too lazy or don't care enough to find a better community, which doesn't bode well personality-wise. With that in mind, the official Steam forums are horrible. But the community features on the service allow you to weed out the bad eggs and only deal with the people you like pretty effectively. There is still 1 and 2. I'm not saying that every pc owner is a pc mustard race c#unt. I don't have reasons to play on pc. Edited April 2, 2015 by Pavani_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseHoldOn Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) There is still 1 and 2. I'm not saying that every pc owner is a pc mustard race c#unt. I don't have reasons to play on pc. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise, I'm just saying that every community sucks. Unless you go out of your way to find/make a better one. Edited April 2, 2015 by PleaseHoldOn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowwindow7 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 The pc game 2D side-scroller pirate cat must be "Claw". Epic game. yes! That was the game, thank you so much! I was trying to search for this game name for ages. I never managed to beat the game due to the keyboard controls at the time, I believe I reached halfway through the game, I remember encounter a female pirate cat as a boss, I took way too long to beat her. then our PC catch a flu... um.. it got a blue screen to be more precisely forcing us to entirely format it, my older brother manage to save his works before the blue screen happen, unfortunately the games stored on the PC have all gone that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzinats94 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I don't like Steam and since it's pretty much mandatory nowadays there's no reason for me to choose PC gaming over consoles. And I actually like owning my games too, I rarely buy digital on consoles too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseHoldOn Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) And I actually like owning my games too, I rarely buy digital on consoles too. I have to say, this is a reason why I'm straying further and further from my 400+ game digital PC library these days. As cheap as the games are, buying them in bulk on PC through bundles and massive sales has gotten very mechanical... there's a certain charm to picking up a pre-ordered game from the store after work the day it's released and bringing it home. Or harassing the local used game shop to get the nicest looking case, and cleanest disc they have. To a certain extent, there's even some charm in being forced to pay full (or near full) price for a game... as stupid as that sounds (guess it helps I make a good living at the moment). It keeps me honest in what I buy and what I play, instead of just buying everything in sight and adding to my already insurmountable backlog. Edited April 2, 2015 by PleaseHoldOn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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