Project CARS vs. Gran Turismo

[PipeSwinger]

Looking to hear what everyone thinks when comparing these two racing simulators. Obviously, Gran Turismo has been around since 1997, and Project CARS was initially released this year, so it's clear that Polyphony Digital has more experience in the racing simulator community. But Project CARS really has impressed me. It runs great on my PC. I also love starting a career, and building a driver from the ground up doing either GT3 racing or endurance (the only ones I've done). But i've put 100's of hours into Gran Turismo over the years, and less than 20 into Project CARS. Gran Turismo is also my goto simulator for my racing set up (Logitech G27 wheel, with three pedals, shifter, and I use a play seat). So I might be bias. But I think Project CARS has a ton of potential. 

 

What does everyone think? 

 

Jake

[BIackgate]

I wanted to love this game but the handling is still a bit off and very much reminiscent of the Shift games (same developer). I still feel like Gran Turismo is king when it comes to the physics of cars. All that being said, I did put over 50 hours into Project Cars and mostly enjoyed it, aside from the frustratingly stupid AI. 

[IronMask75]

I wanted to love this game but the handling is still a bit off and very much reminiscent of the Shift games (same developer). I still feel like Gran Turismo is king when it comes to the physics of cars. All that being said, I did put over 50 hours into Project Cars and mostly enjoyed it, aside from the frustratingly stupid AI.

I don't normally get into these debates, but when I come across a comment so profoundly misguided I can't help myself. Firstly, I have to know what input device you're using for Project Cars. If you're using a controller then this post (and this game) are completely wasted on you. If, however, you're using a decent wheel and still think the handling is "a bit off" then it's entirely possible you are still using the default force feedback settings on a possibly incorrectly calibrated wheel.

Now, I'm a Gran Turismo fanboy, but I know when to lay down my guns and with my T300RS/T3PA-PRO/TH8A combo I can say the handling is not "a bit off" at all. It's incredible. The physics modelling is accurate and almost totally predictable. If you don't drive properly the game will eat you, unlike Shift and GT5/6 that have a distinctly arcadey feel to them. Gran Turismo's physics never felt right. The cars all felt way too floaty, like either the tire model was incorrectly done or that Polyphony had to use a weird value for gravity to keep the cars behaving in a certain way. Things just never felt properly connected to the road in the GT games and the Shift games always felt a bit arcadey.

The Shift games were terrible. I don't see the similarities at all with the physics engine. EA forced them to make the game in a certain way. SMS were employed to make the NFS series more "sim-like" but at the end of the day EA didn't want a true sim game, so the physics was made less "real" to accomodate the arcade market of the consoles. Project Cars devs didn't have any of that hanging over their heads this time and made a game where the physics is brutally realistic. Gran Turismo has never approached the level of physics accuracy as in this game.

Lastly, the frustratingly stupid AI. Now I don't know about you, but the AI in pCARS is no comparison to the zombie AI drivers in the GT series. The pCARS AI will actually race you. If you hit one of them, they remember and hit you back. They constantly chang their racing line looking for gaps and overtaking opportunities. The GT AI was terribly robotic; never deviating from the racing line, rarely attempting late braking overtakes and totally ignoring the fact you were even on the track as they punted you off mid corner for not being perfectly on the racing line and being in their way. Tuning cars in GT also exposed the shortcomings of the AI, with highly tuned FR cars spearing off corners into sand traps because the AI was so stupid to realise they didn't have the mid corner grip to successfully navigate the track at the speeds they wanted, but they would never slow down. Not saying the AI in pCARS is perfect, but the comparison to GT that was insinuated in your comment that somehow GT's AI was actually good, or better at least than this game, are profoundly confusing.

 

Now, back to the OP:

 

Looking to hear what everyone thinks when comparing these two racing simulators. Obviously, Gran Turismo has been around since 1997, and Project CARS was initially released this year, so it's clear that Polyphony Digital has more experience in the racing simulator community. But Project CARS really has impressed me. It runs great on my PC. I also love starting a career, and building a driver from the ground up doing either GT3 racing or endurance (the only ones I've done). But i've put 100's of hours into Gran Turismo over the years, and less than 20 into Project CARS. Gran Turismo is also my goto simulator for my racing set up (Logitech G27 wheel, with three pedals, shifter, and I use a play seat). So I might be bias. But I think Project CARS has a ton of potential. 

 

What does everyone think? 

 

Jake

 

The first thing is an incorrect categorisation of the two games. You label them both as "racing simulators" but the core experience of the GT franchise is not about "racing", but about "driving". That is why it says Driving Simulator on the box. The core experience of pCARS though is racing, as is evidenced by the fact that the cars aren't upgradeable; only tunable, so it all comes down to the settings, not the upgrades. It may be a stylistic difference, but it is a difference.

 

Polyphony's experience in the racing community is debatable. Being locked into the Sony platform with very few rivals over the years may have been to their detriment, as their only real competition has been from competing platforms like Sega, Nintendo and more recently XBox. The Simbin team which forms the core of Slightly Mad Studios have been making sims since the GT Legends game in the highly competitive and customizable platform of the PC, which I would argue gives them a much better grounding in the sim genre. Polyphony only really have themselves to compete with.

............................................

 

All that said, the experience in both of these games are a fair bit different and I love them both, despite their flaws. The GT series is about role-playing, progression, collecting and upgrading/tuning in a mostly single-player game where the online experience is a bit of an afterthought. pCARS is a hardcore racer without compromise, designed (and poorly implemented) with online lobbies in mind and a fairly basic single-player "campaign."

 

If you want an uncompromising online experience with hardcore racers, then pCARS is your game. If you want a more relaxed driving experience with less serious physics where you're mosly playing by yourself and like the occasional online race, then the GT series might be for you. It is, however, difficult to directly compare the games as they have a different core experience.

 

Like you I have put 1000's of hours into the GT franchise, right back from the GT and GT 2 days on the PlayStation 1 and only 30 hours so far into pCARS, but already I can tell the physics engine is vastly superior to anything Polyphony has done. It's not quite Grand Prix Legends, but it's pretty bloody good and about the best you'll get on console until Assetto Corsa is released.

 

Must be played with wheel and pedals to fully appreciate!

[PipeSwinger]

I don't normally get into these debates, but when I come across a comment so profoundly misguided I can't help myself. Firstly, I have to know what input device you're using for Project Cars. If you're using a controller then this post (and this game) are completely wasted on you. If, however, you're using a decent wheel and still think the handling is "a bit off" then it's entirely possible you are still using the default force feedback settings on a possibly incorrectly calibrated wheel.

Now, I'm a Gran Turismo fanboy, but I know when to lay down my guns and with my T300RS/T3PA-PRO/TH8A combo I can say the handling is not "a bit off" at all. It's incredible. The physics modelling is accurate and almost totally predictable. If you don't drive properly the game will eat you, unlike Shift and GT5/6 that have a distinctly arcadey feel to them. Gran Turismo's physics never felt right. The cars all felt way too floaty, like either the tire model was incorrectly done or that Polyphony had to use a weird value for gravity to keep the cars behaving in a certain way. Things just never felt properly connected to the road in the GT games and the Shift games always felt a bit arcadey.

The Shift games were terrible. I don't see the similarities at all with the physics engine. EA forced them to make the game in a certain way. SMS were employed to make the NFS series more "sim-like" but at the end of the day EA didn't want a true sim game, so the physics was made less "real" to accomodate the arcade market of the consoles. Project Cars devs didn't have any of that hanging over their heads this time and made a game where the physics is brutally realistic. Gran Turismo has never approached the level of physics accuracy as in this game.

Lastly, the frustratingly stupid AI. Now I don't know about you, but the AI in pCARS is no comparison to the zombie AI drivers in the GT series. The pCARS AI will actually race you. If you hit one of them, they remember and hit you back. They constantly chang their racing line looking for gaps and overtaking opportunities. The GT AI was terribly robotic; never deviating from the racing line, rarely attempting late braking overtakes and totally ignoring the fact you were even on the track as they punted you off mid corner for not being perfectly on the racing line and being in their way. Tuning cars in GT also exposed the shortcomings of the AI, with highly tuned FR cars spearing off corners into sand traps because the AI was so stupid to realise they didn't have the mid corner grip to successfully navigate the track at the speeds they wanted, but they would never slow down. Not saying the AI in pCARS is perfect, but the comparison to GT that was insinuated in your comment that somehow GT's AI was actually good, or better at least than this game, are profoundly confusing.

 

Now, back to the OP:

 

 

The first thing is an incorrect categorisation of the two games. You label them both as "racing simulators" but the core experience of the GT franchise is not about "racing", but about "driving". That is why it says Driving Simulator on the box. The core experience of pCARS though is racing, as is evidenced by the fact that the cars aren't upgradeable; only tunable, so it all comes down to the settings, not the upgrades. It may be a stylistic difference, but it is a difference.

 

Polyphony's experience in the racing community is debatable. Being locked into the Sony platform with very few rivals over the years may have been to their detriment, as their only real competition has been from competing platforms like Sega, Nintendo and more recently XBox. The Simbin team which forms the core of Slightly Mad Studios have been making sims since the GT Legends game in the highly competitive and customizable platform of the PC, which I would argue gives them a much better grounding in the sim genre. Polyphony only really have themselves to compete with.

............................................

 

All that said, the experience in both of these games are a fair bit different and I love them both, despite their flaws. The GT series is about role-playing, progression, collecting and upgrading/tuning in a mostly single-player game where the online experience is a bit of an afterthought. pCARS is a hardcore racer without compromise, designed (and poorly implemented) with online lobbies in mind and a fairly basic single-player "campaign."

 

If you want an uncompromising online experience with hardcore racers, then pCARS is your game. If you want a more relaxed driving experience with less serious physics where you're mosly playing by yourself and like the occasional online race, then the GT series might be for you. It is, however, difficult to directly compare the games as they have a different core experience.

 

Like you I have put 1000's of hours into the GT franchise, right back from the GT and GT 2 days on the PlayStation 1 and only 30 hours so far into pCARS, but already I can tell the physics engine is vastly superior to anything Polyphony has done. It's not quite Grand Prix Legends, but it's pretty bloody good and about the best you'll get on console until Assetto Corsa is released.

 

Must be played with wheel and pedals to fully appreciate!

 

 

Great points. 

Edited July 19, 2015 by PipeSwinger

[Splathew]

Off topic but I miss arcade racing games... The Sim style does nothing for me.

[BIackgate]

I don't normally get into these debates, but when I come across a comment so profoundly misguided I can't help myself. Firstly, I have to know what input device you're using for Project Cars. If you're using a controller then this post (and this game) are completely wasted on you. If, however, you're using a decent wheel and still think the handling is "a bit off" then it's entirely possible you are still using the default force feedback settings on a possibly incorrectly calibrated wheel.

Now, I'm a Gran Turismo fanboy, but I know when to lay down my guns and with my T300RS/T3PA-PRO/TH8A combo I can say the handling is not "a bit off" at all. It's incredible. The physics modelling is accurate and almost totally predictable. If you don't drive properly the game will eat you, unlike Shift and GT5/6 that have a distinctly arcadey feel to them. Gran Turismo's physics never felt right. The cars all felt way too floaty, like either the tire model was incorrectly done or that Polyphony had to use a weird value for gravity to keep the cars behaving in a certain way. Things just never felt properly connected to the road in the GT games and the Shift games always felt a bit arcadey.

The Shift games were terrible. I don't see the similarities at all with the physics engine. EA forced them to make the game in a certain way. SMS were employed to make the NFS series more "sim-like" but at the end of the day EA didn't want a true sim game, so the physics was made less "real" to accomodate the arcade market of the consoles. Project Cars devs didn't have any of that hanging over their heads this time and made a game where the physics is brutally realistic. Gran Turismo has never approached the level of physics accuracy as in this game.

Lastly, the frustratingly stupid AI. Now I don't know about you, but the AI in pCARS is no comparison to the zombie AI drivers in the GT series. The pCARS AI will actually race you. If you hit one of them, they remember and hit you back. They constantly chang their racing line looking for gaps and overtaking opportunities. The GT AI was terribly robotic; never deviating from the racing line, rarely attempting late braking overtakes and totally ignoring the fact you were even on the track as they punted you off mid corner for not being perfectly on the racing line and being in their way. Tuning cars in GT also exposed the shortcomings of the AI, with highly tuned FR cars spearing off corners into sand traps because the AI was so stupid to realise they didn't have the mid corner grip to successfully navigate the track at the speeds they wanted, but they would never slow down. Not saying the AI in pCARS is perfect, but the comparison to GT that was insinuated in your comment that somehow GT's AI was actually good, or better at least than this game, are profoundly confusing.

 

Now, back to the OP:

 

 

The first thing is an incorrect categorisation of the two games. You label them both as "racing simulators" but the core experience of the GT franchise is not about "racing", but about "driving". That is why it says Driving Simulator on the box. The core experience of pCARS though is racing, as is evidenced by the fact that the cars aren't upgradeable; only tunable, so it all comes down to the settings, not the upgrades. It may be a stylistic difference, but it is a difference.

 

Polyphony's experience in the racing community is debatable. Being locked into the Sony platform with very few rivals over the years may have been to their detriment, as their only real competition has been from competing platforms like Sega, Nintendo and more recently XBox. The Simbin team which forms the core of Slightly Mad Studios have been making sims since the GT Legends game in the highly competitive and customizable platform of the PC, which I would argue gives them a much better grounding in the sim genre. Polyphony only really have themselves to compete with.

............................................

 

All that said, the experience in both of these games are a fair bit different and I love them both, despite their flaws. The GT series is about role-playing, progression, collecting and upgrading/tuning in a mostly single-player game where the online experience is a bit of an afterthought. pCARS is a hardcore racer without compromise, designed (and poorly implemented) with online lobbies in mind and a fairly basic single-player "campaign."

 

If you want an uncompromising online experience with hardcore racers, then pCARS is your game. If you want a more relaxed driving experience with less serious physics where you're mosly playing by yourself and like the occasional online race, then the GT series might be for you. It is, however, difficult to directly compare the games as they have a different core experience.

 

Like you I have put 1000's of hours into the GT franchise, right back from the GT and GT 2 days on the PlayStation 1 and only 30 hours so far into pCARS, but already I can tell the physics engine is vastly superior to anything Polyphony has done. It's not quite Grand Prix Legends, but it's pretty bloody good and about the best you'll get on console until Assetto Corsa is released.

 

Must be played with wheel and pedals to fully appreciate!

 

I have a G27 wheel that I paid almost $300 for just after the PS4 came out because I was under the impression that it would work with the system. I'm not going to buy another wheel for a game like Project Cars. Honestly, if it is a requirement to use a wheel just to get the handling right, I don't want to waste my money. My comments are not misguided at all as they are my experience with the game. I've put over 50 hours into the game and the fact is, some of the cars handling is just not good. I'm not the only one who feels this way either, shit they mentioned it in a patch (that some cars had their handling models adjusted). As for the AI, what you said isn't exactly true as I've gone through a race not hitting anyone and still got punted by a car that "didn't see me" as that is the only way I can consider what happened. They race their line and if you are in the way, you're going to get hit. This doesn't always happen, but when it does, it's really annoying. I never said anything about Gran Turismo's AI, either.

 

It's quite apparent that you enjoy this game but to call my comment misguided is simply not appropriate.